FRC Rule Changes

[onlykerry]

Oct 23, 2024 18:21:34 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Just one other point,

If you are against these rules I really don't think you can moan next year when we are watching more *e football for large parts of the year.

If you want the game to improve surely you have to give these rules a chance.

For clarity. I am not against rule changes. I believe the game needs rules changes badly as what we currently have as a game is appalling. Rule changes have been part of the history of the GAA from the very beginning - remember goals won games before becoming 5 pointers and then 3 pointers in the first 20 years of the association.

The main point of my post is that rules changes need to help referees and not put them ever more in the firing line - complex rule changes which place more burden and in some cases can be subjective should be avoided where possible. Rules changes should also be relatively easy to implement for all grades and sectors.

Contrast the arc and the need for a ref to make a call on where the kick was actually from with a ban on hand passes or a ban on consecutive hand passes - the first has major potential for controversy whereas the second is cut and dried. I use the hand pass as an example and am not advocating it in this argument

[kot]

Lads is it just the GAA that has this thing about "How are you going to ref it down the line"? Has anyone played soccer underage or B Level in the KDL? There's no VAR..... even before VAR there was no centre circle.

The ref, 2 linesman and assistant referee were all the same half blind geriatric fella in the middle of the pitch! Trying to watch the game, identify off the ball incidents and call offside.

It's the same today where the facilities & personnel at club & underage levels aren't the same. So you have partisan volunteers from the crowd or opposing teams helping with line balls and umpiring duties. This is no different!

The further you go down the ladder in any sport, the more you have to interpret and adapt as best you can from a centralised set of rules..... and no matter how hard you try you are still the reason one team lost.

[The16thMan]

Oct 23, 2024 19:52:34 GMT ciarraimick said:

There will be teething problems with the new rules and keepers will have a huge role but it will suit the likes of David Clifford who never has to go back into other half if he chooses.The 3 up 3 back rule can also be used to give players a breather.
It will really suit natural scorers too.Paul Geaney could have a big year in the forward line instead of burning energy chasing backs.Players with pace will bw excited too like Canavan.It would suit our own Donal Down.

The most exciting part of the new rules is the enhanced possibility of having Clifford always inside the attacking 45 and at times having a 1 on 1 battle. This is where he is at his best. Like the time he had the 1 on1 with O'Hora in the League final 2022.

[ciarraimick]

Im not sure many teams will still leave Clifford one on one but he will def have more room and wont have to be chasing backs upfield.However we still have to make sure he gets quick ball in unlike last year.

[horsebox77]

Can I ask a simple question.. teams must keep three players up top... can a team keep more than three back? Can a team have five defenders marking the three players left 'up top'.. or does it have to be 3 vs 3...

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 24, 2024 17:07:41 GMT horsebox77 said:

Can I ask a simple question.. teams must keep three players up top... can a team keep more than three back? Can a team have five defenders marking the three players left 'up top'.. or does it have to be 3 vs 3...

Yes a team can leave 11 back if they choose.

[sullyschoice]

Good interview with Eamonn Fitzmaurice on Colm Parkinsons Smaller Fish Podcast

[colinsworth1]

There seems to be a sort of euphoria about the new rules
Great but I would say not so fast
Let s see how they do in the league and in real games
Did you ever play 13 a side football it’s totally different game
Now 11 v 11 in one half wow that even more lightweight
It’s a bit contrived a bit forced for me and a bit to tri na cheile
Going to be difficult to police that is the 3 up at all times
Basically turning it into a 11 v 11 game jeez
1 the throw in I’d leave 4 players as is except I’d space them 15 yards apart and allow only two contest the throw in
None of this sideline gimmick' the ref can decide whether to throw in to the front two or the back two
The real blight on the game I genuinely feel is when
There’s a good attacking move and the the forward s are approaching the top of the D see s some congestion and opts to go backward s over the 45 to outside the defensive ring that backward pass there right at that moment is what’s killing the game as a spectacle
Never mind the massed defense the real culprit is the constant recycling
Ad Naseum Look closely at the next game and ask yourself why the excitement of the close contest the approach to the score is so often anticlimactic it’s because team position there so called quarter back at midfield so they can safely go back into the safety area at the slightest sign of any jeopardy that right there is the kill joy and it’s repeated over and over now in all games till there will be no more spectators interested in watching
I’m looking for no more passing or bringing ball back wards over the forty five once you’ve crossed it shoot or pass or get turned over but keep the game a contest please thank you

[dc84]

Oct 24, 2024 20:18:38 GMT sullyschoice said:

Good interview with Eamonn Fitzmaurice on Colm Parkinsons Smaller Fish Podcast

Fitzty is a class act in fairness

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 25, 2024 2:58:46 GMT colinsworth1 said:

There seems to be a sort of euphoria about the new rules
Great but I would say not so fast
Let s see how they do in the league and in real games
Did you ever play 13 a side football it’s totally different game
Now 11 v 11 in one half wow that even more lightweight
It’s a bit contrived a bit forced for me and a bit to tri na cheile
Going to be difficult to police that is the 3 up at all times
Basically turning it into a 11 v 11 game jeez
1 the throw in I’d leave 4 players as is except I’d space them 15 yards apart and allow only two contest the throw in
None of this sideline gimmick' the ref can decide whether to throw in to the front two or the back two
The real blight on the game I genuinely feel is when
There’s a good attacking move and the the forward s are approaching the top of the D see s some congestion and opts to go backward s over the 45 to outside the defensive ring that backward pass there right at that moment is what’s killing the game as a spectacle
Never mind the massed defense the real culprit is the constant recycling
Ad Naseum Look closely at the next game and ask yourself why the excitement of the close contest the approach to the score is so often anticlimactic it’s because team position there so called quarter back at midfield so they can safely go back into the safety area at the slightest sign of any jeopardy that right there is the kill joy and it’s repeated over and over now in all games till there will be no more spectators interested in watching
I’m looking for no more passing or bringing ball back wards over the forty five once you’ve crossed it shoot or pass or get turned over but keep the game a contest please thank you

The constant recycling is a byproduct of mass defenses.

So mass defenses is the fundamental problem that everything else originates from.

We need more risk taking and the only way to do that is to reward it.

[legendz]

1. I'm not against the 1v1 throw in. A lot of unnecessary fouling with the current throw in.
2. 3v3 is better that the 13 aside some are asking for. 3 up should encourage forward play after turnover ball.
3. The goalkeeper passing seems fair enough. Pointless a goalkeeper walking up the field in possession and noone laying a glove.
4. Solo and go keeps the momentum with the attack.
5. The attacking mark is an improvement. Big encouragement to go for goal.
6. Kick outs having to beyond the 40m arc is debatable. I'm all for good fielding but 13 metres should be fair enough for kick outs.
7. The scoring system is also debatable. I'm hearing goals will remain at 3 points. The suggested 2 pointers will force defenders to push out but scoring two 2 pointers being more than a goal seems excessive.

[ciarraimick]

Is the foam going to be used like the soccer?I hope so as most players steal a few yards on frees and indeed sidelines.

[ciarraimick]

Rumours going around that Donegals Michael Murphy considering a comeback at 35 yrs of age.The new rules would def help him a little if he stayed in the forward line.

[legendz]

Oct 26, 2024 10:34:34 GMT ciarraimick said:

Rumours going around that Donegals Michael Murphy considering a comeback at 35 yrs of age.The new rules would def help him a little if he stayed in the forward line.

The advanced mark will suit that type of forward alright.
The scoring system is going to be 1-2-3 and 45s worth 1 point. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Two doubles seem more achievable than a goal and reward more. Defences will have to push out.
The advanced mark has to be tempting if two pointers are being shut down. The insurance of a point opportunity and a free play to go for goal.
Some are concerned 2 pointers will take over but if defences are shutting them out, regular goals and points might still prove key to keeping the score board ticking over.

[ciarraimick]

Oct 26, 2024 10:46:14 GMT legendz said:

Oct 26, 2024 10:34:34 GMT ciarraimick said:

Rumours going around that Donegals Michael Murphy considering a comeback at 35 yrs of age.The new rules would def help him a little if he stayed in the forward line.

The advanced mark will suit that type of forward alright.
The scoring system is going to be 1-2-3 and 45s worth 1 point. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Two doubles seem more achievable than a goal and reward more. Defences will have to push out.
The advanced mark has to be tempting if two pointers are being shut down. The insurance of a point opportunity and a free play to go for goal.
Some are concerned 2 pointers will take over but if defences are shutting them out, regular goals and points might still prove key to keeping the score board ticking over.

You make some very good points.Im looking forward to the league to see it all pan out.

[The16thMan]

Delay on pre-season vote as Central Council approves new rules for Special Congress
(Courtesy of RTE Sport)

The GAA's Central Council have approved the Football Review Committee's new rules to be voted upon at Special Congress next month, but the vote on return of pre-season tournaments in 2025 has been delayed.

The Jim Gavin-led FRC made two small changes to the proposed rules showcased in Croke Park last week, with four points for a goal and two points for a 45 both dropped ahead of today's meeting in Headquarters.

Central Council subsequently, and predictably, waved the rules onwards towards Special Congress on 30 November, when delegates will decide which, if any, of the proposed rule changes will come into effect at the start of the 2025 Allianz League.

It is still to be determined if the league will be the first shop window for the rules after a procedural clarification was sought on today's vote on the pre-season tournaments.

The 49 present at today's meeting will receive an email later to facilitate an electronic vote on whether the McKenna Cup, McGrath Cup, FBD League and O'Byrne Cup will be staged in January.

The Cavan-sponsored motion provoked a week of lobbying from players' body, the Gaelic Players Association (GPA), who rejected suggestions the competitions were needed to allow for further testing of the new playing rules.

"Reversing that decision now would prioritise financial income – as recently articulated by the Connacht Council Secretary - over the health and well-being of our amateur athletes, despite overwhelming evidence of player burnout," a GPA statement said.

If the pre-season competitions are reintroduced on 2 January, the return-to-training date would need to be moved from 7 December to as early as 16 November."

FRC chairman Gavin defended the abolition of the four-point goal, saying the decision was taken to defend against blowout defeats between mismatched inter-county teams.

"We have been quite clear in saying they are not perfect rules," he told RTÉ Radio 1's Saturday Sport. "The original proposition was to incentivise goals.

"The feedback we got from inter-county players and Ard Chomhairle members was that people felt it would work in competitive games, between teams of equal status, but with structures in the association, as we know, we get Division 1 teams against Division 4 teans. If a team from a lower division got behind by two goals, eight points, people felt in that scenario it would be quite difficult."

Gavin believes the changes to defence brought about by two-point arc will still leave room for more goals. While Central Council will have the power to sweak the rule and reintoridc four goals if they see fit.

"We expect that we will see more goals either way, He said. " The prudent thing to do was at the moment reduce it to three points.

"Whatever rules pass in five weeks' time, Central Council will have power to rescind or amend any of those rules."

[The16thMan]

** Pre Season Competitions Not To Return In 2025 **

49 delegates voted tonight, and fell 3 short of the required 30 votes to allow for the return of the pre-season competitions.

First testing grounds for any new rules will be the National League.

The NFL Div.1 trophy is now to be named 'Corn Míchíl Ui Muircheartaigh' which is a lovely touch in my opinion.

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 26, 2024 20:27:52 GMT The16thMan said:

** Pre Season Competitions Not To Return In 2025 **

49 delegates voted tonight, and fell 3 short of the required 30 votes to allow for the return of the pre-season competitions.

First testing grounds for any new rules will be the National League.

The NFL Div.1 trophy is now to be named 'Corn Míchíl Ui Muircheartaigh' which is a lovely touch in my opinion.

A lovely touch for one of the greatest Kerry men loved the length and breath of the country.

[colinsworth1]

Oct 25, 2024 11:00:13 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Oct 25, 2024 2:58:46 GMT colinsworth1 said:

There seems to be a sort of euphoria about the new rules
Great but I would say not so fast
Let s see how they do in the league and in real games
Did you ever play 13 a side football it’s totally different game
Now 11 v 11 in one half wow that even more lightweight
It’s a bit contrived a bit forced for me and a bit to tri na cheile
Going to be difficult to police that is the 3 up at all times
Basically turning it into a 11 v 11 game jeez
1 the throw in I’d leave 4 players as is except I’d space them 15 yards apart and allow only two contest the throw in
None of this sideline gimmick' the ref can decide whether to throw in to the front two or the back two
The real blight on the game I genuinely feel is when
There’s a good attacking move and the the forward s are approaching the top of the D see s some congestion and opts to go backward s over the 45 to outside the defensive ring that backward pass there right at that moment is what’s killing the game as a spectacle
Never mind the massed defense the real culprit is the constant recycling
Ad Naseum Look closely at the next game and ask yourself why the excitement of the close contest the approach to the score is so often anticlimactic it’s because team position there so called quarter back at midfield so they can safely go back into the safety area at the slightest sign of any jeopardy that right there is the kill joy and it’s repeated over and over now in all games till there will be no more spectators interested in watching
I’m looking for no more passing or bringing ball back wards over the forty five once you’ve crossed it shoot or pass or get turned over but keep the game a contest please thank you

The constant recycling is a byproduct of mass defenses.

So mass defenses is the “fundamental problem that everything else originates from.

We need more risk taking and the only way to do that is to reward it.

The “ so the mass defense is the fundamental problem that everything else originates from “ No doubt that is the widely held view throughout I’m taking an alternative view and contend that the mass defense is not the fundamental problem Teams reaction to it is
The constant recycling will not go away unless it’s taken away . attackers will still pass or kick the ball back to other side of 45 to safety taking away any intensity from the game for long periods To use the mass defense as an excuse to keep going backwards with the ball is not addressing the real problem .
If we don’t allow the pass back over the 45
The following things will happen
1. We will have more shots on goals and points
2. A lot more turnovers ( nothing wrong with that)
3. Much quicker faster competitive game at least inside the 45
4 more contests more intensity
5. Simple to ref all you need is a 45 yard line

As regards rewarding risk taking you could offer
10 points for a goal and they still won’t kick it in

The pass back over the 45 is the killer and it’s still there we will still have long passages of play with little or no contact and no excitement

But some good ideas in the new rules. absolutely just disappointed that they didn’t trial the the restriction of the backward pass over the. 45

They brought the half court violation rule into basketball and it revolutionized the game in terms of a spectacle to watch .

[legendz]

Oct 27, 2024 14:41:48 GMT colinsworth1 said:

Oct 25, 2024 11:00:13 GMT royalkerryfan said:

The constant recycling is a byproduct of mass defenses.

So mass defenses is the “fundamental problem that everything else originates from.

We need more risk taking and the only way to do that is to reward it.

The “ so the mass defense is the fundamental problem that everything else originates from “ No doubt that is the widely held view throughout I’m taking an alternative view and contend that the mass defense is not the fundamental problem Teams reaction to it is
The constant recycling will not go away unless it’s taken away . attackers will still pass or kick the ball back to other side of 45 to safety taking away any intensity from the game for long periods To use the mass defense as an excuse to keep going backwards with the ball is not addressing the real problem .
If we don’t allow the pass back over the 45
The following things will happen
1. We will have more shots on goals and points
2. A lot more turnovers ( nothing wrong with that)
3. Much quicker faster competitive game at least inside the 45
4 more contests more intensity
5. Simple to ref all you need is a 45 yard line

As regards rewarding risk taking you could offer
10 points for a goal and they still won’t kick it in

The pass back over the 45 is the killer and it’s still there we will still have long passages of play with little or no contact and no excitement

But some good ideas in the new rules. absolutely just disappointed that they didn’t trial the the restriction of the backward pass over the. 45

They brought the half court violation rule into basketball and it revolutionized the game in terms of a spectacle to watch .

With the changes being voted on, if a two pointer is being shutdown, a pass back outside the 45 might set up an attacking mark.
The current game has the scoring zone around the D and the large square then for goals. The FRC rule changes will see a 2 point scoring zone, the traditional point scoring zone and the traditional goal scoring zone. Outside the 45 then will be the launching pad for attacking marks.
Basketball has a shot clock and the restriction on passing once in the opponents half. Are both dependent?

[colinsworth1]

In basketball cannot go back over the half way line once you cross it
Nothing to do with shot clock
But both rules encourage a more attacking and go forward shooting game
Both would be good in Gaelic but the easy one is the half court violation
Either 45 or new arc
Shot Clock would be good for spectators but I’m thinking down at club game level just harder to implement and starts getting too technical compared to the simple line rule

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 27, 2024 16:39:58 GMT legendz said:

Oct 27, 2024 14:41:48 GMT colinsworth1 said:

The “ so the mass defense is the fundamental problem that everything else originates from “ No doubt that is the widely held view throughout I’m taking an alternative view and contend that the mass defense is not the fundamental problem Teams reaction to it is
The constant recycling will not go away unless it’s taken away . attackers will still pass or kick the ball back to other side of 45 to safety taking away any intensity from the game for long periods To use the mass defense as an excuse to keep going backwards with the ball is not addressing the real problem .
If we don’t allow the pass back over the 45
The following things will happen
1. We will have more shots on goals and points
2. A lot more turnovers ( nothing wrong with that)
3. Much quicker faster competitive game at least inside the 45
4 more contests more intensity
5. Simple to ref all you need is a 45 yard line

As regards rewarding risk taking you could offer
10 points for a goal and they still won’t kick it in

The pass back over the 45 is the killer and it’s still there we will still have long passages of play with little or no contact and no excitement

But some good ideas in the new rules. absolutely just disappointed that they didn’t trial the the restriction of the backward pass over the. 45

They brought the half court violation rule into basketball and it revolutionized the game in terms of a spectacle to watch .

With the changes being voted on, if a two pointer is being shutdown, a pass back outside the 45 might set up an attacking mark.
The current game has the scoring zone around the D and the large square then for goals. The FRC rule changes will see a 2 point scoring zone, the traditional point scoring zone and the traditional goal scoring zone. Outside the 45 then will be the launching pad for attacking marks.
Basketball has a shot clock and the restriction on passing once in the opponents half. Are both dependent?

I think to add to my original point the other reason that we have this endless cycle of hand passing and recycling is that the game changed to a possession based game.

Its obviously well known now that players have been coached to "protect the ball" god awful saying.

I do think it all originated with mass defences and the counter attacking football that produced.

[ciarraimick]

Not being able to go back past half line like basketball would be good.Posession football would be harder to do then.
On posession football the first team i saw use it the way its used today were Dr.Crokes under Pat O Shea and the first county I saw use it was Kerry in 07 under Pat O Shea.Pat of course was a class basketball player and its a basketball trait.
Funny enough the Dubs brought it to a new level under Jim Gavin when he brought an Irish basketball coach into his backroom team.
Watch 2007 All Ireland semi final between Kerry and Dublin on youtube(or just the last Kerry score) where Kerry held posession for ages before their final point and that was 17 years ago.

[legendz]

Oct 27, 2024 19:58:14 GMT colinsworth1 said:

In basketball cannot go back over the half way line once you cross it
Nothing to do with shot clock
But both rules encourage a more attacking and go forward shooting game
Both would be good in Gaelic but the easy one is the half court violation
Either 45 or new arc
Shot Clock would be good for spectators but I’m thinking down at club game level just harder to implement and starts getting too technical compared to the simple line rule

Why don't you want your preferred half court violation applied as a half pitch violation?
A 45 or an arc violation would be counter productive when an attacking mark or two pointer is being teed up under the FRC rules coming into play.

[colinsworth1]

I’d be fine with the half way line violation too yes
We don’t have a half way line at present in GAA but
45 m line or half way line both would reduce the long keep ball periods
As in Roscommon v Dublin last time where the Rossies held the ball for more than 6 minutes consider if the Dubs decided to keep ball they could go 10 minutes but the stadium would empty out meantime that’s the dooms day scenario not far away

As regards the advanced mark I I would drop that and I would keep the mark from the kick out

[legendz]

Oct 27, 2024 21:35:41 GMT colinsworth1 said:

I’d be fine with the half way line violation too yes
We don’t have a half way line at present in GAA but
45 m line or half way line both would reduce the long keep ball periods
As in Roscommon v Dublin last time where the Rossies held the ball for more than 6 minutes consider if the Dubs decided to keep ball they could go 10 minutes but the stadium would empty out meantime that’s the dooms day scenario not far away

As regards the advanced mark I I would drop that and I would keep the mark from the kick out

With the FRC rule changes, the attacking goalkeeper will probably be able to assist with keep ball from halfway to the 45. If that becomes monotonous and teams aren't counteracting it, possibly the halfway violation might be something to be considered so that defences are encouraged to push up in an effort to turn over ball.
I'm not against the attacking mark. I'm interested to see how it plays out. Time will tell. It could prove to be an exciting change. Any time a mark is won, there's going to be a big expectation in the stands that there will be a goal opportunity.

[jerryewe]

I would have liked to see a variation on the half field violation that people are mentioning. I would have tried to limit the backpassing while also giving an incentive for opposition to push up and get a turnover. My idea would be that that as soon as you pass your own 65, you cannot go back past your own 45. Once past the opposition 65, you can’t take the ball back past your own 65 and so on up the field until you get inside the opposition 21, you can’t go back outside the 45. This would take the option of the 20 yard back pass away in most cases. I think this has been the biggest of the lack of engagement & tackling. Currently, if the opposition kicks the ball 20-30 yards back, the defending team is not going to press up and the attacking team is going to hold the ball to draw the defending team out.

If the reward for forcing a team backwards is to get a turnover, I think you are incentivizing a team to press up.

[Ard Mhacha]

Oct 27, 2024 20:27:05 GMT ciarraimick said:

Not being able to go back past half line like basketball would be good.Posession football would be harder to do then.
On posession football the first team i saw use it the way its used today were Dr.Crokes under Pat O Shea and the first county I saw use it was Kerry in 07 under Pat O Shea.Pat of course was a class basketball player and its a basketball trait.
Funny enough the Dubs brought it to a new level under Jim Gavin when he brought an Irish basketball coach into his backroom team.
Watch 2007 All Ireland semi final between Kerry and Dublin on youtube(or just the last Kerry score) where Kerry held posession for ages before their final point and that was 17 years ago.

Interesting.

I was thinking maybe the possession based game started with Cluxton’s kickouts. Was he the first to restart play with kickouts to the corner back? And it evolved from there. Before that most kickouts were hooved out the pitch and players contested 50/50 balls. Could be wrong. Cluxton was lauded for “revolutionising” the goalkeeper position, when he actually could have helped start this keep ball game we see today.

[legendz]

The late Liam Kearns had a club in Limerick playing possession football late in games when they were protecting a lead. That was fine. Some of the club games up north take the biscuit. Possession based football for the whole game.

[colinsworth1]

I would not like to be trying to get the ball back of Crokes on a fine summer’s day you’d be run ragged
The line of non return whether it’s half way or 45 would at least give a team a chance to win the ball back that would be good to see
and long possession s would be less and less
Don’t know why any manager or player would vote for this
Spectators yes sure but players would have less time on the ball and they’d hardly go for that
Ironic that Jim Gavin is leading this up a man who’s legacy is guaranteed as one of the all time greats and one who was a master of control and possession especially in attack and used the safety of behind the forty five recycle plan to perfection
Going down one side then going backward for a few passes then going down the opposite side then if nothing on would repeat the dose
Like a pendulum but nearly always resulted in a score
Kieran Kilkenny was a top man for this strategy
But I’d like to end the constant back passes