FRC Rule Changes

[kot]

To be honest, I had been only paying a small bit of attention to this and hearing about it in various radio shows / podcasts. But with the games on this weekend I had a look and read some of what the brain trust came up with and their rationale.

Will be interesting to see these games somewhat but they are glorified exhibitions for everyone but the Ulster lads. So the holes will only be picked in it when it comes to competition. So, the 7 key rule changes we are going to see.

1. 1V1 throw ins: yeah, no issue with that. Less nonsense between the 2 spares not jumping.

2. Kick out's must go beyond the 40m arc. Players must remain 13m from the ball but may stay inside the 20m line: Absolute headscratcher and counter productive. Isnt one (of the many) blights in the modern game the short tap kick out and slow build up? People wanted more blood and guts kicking to players out the pitch. A back will just get ahead of their forward and pick up a short tap by the keeper and status quo maintained?

3. The Keeper: the goalkeeper can receive the ball from a teammate inside his own half only when both players are inside the large rectangle. He may also receive a pass from a teammate after crossing the halfway line.. Again, counter productive, teams will work the ball inside the opposition half - play sideways and backwards until their keeper saunters up to be an extra man??!!

4. Solo and Go: Yep, on board

5. 3 players in each half: Cop out, why not in the 45/65? And by allowing the keeper to come up and play the overload as in 2 its a complete hash up.

6. Advanced Mark from kicks outside the 45 inside the 21: Yep, thats how the bloody thing should have been done in the first place

7. 40 metre arc: Makes sense from play but from placed balls? Again pandering to keepers who will saunter up and eat into the time which is another issue. Maybe will discourage tactical fouls outside the arc? I can see pros and cons

A lot of the tweaks to these roles seem to be pandering to the modern goalkeeper and kick out systems of running slow build up teams that are the cause of this eyesore of gaelic football today. Which is the exact opposite of what this group were meant to have been combatting over the last 18 months?

Mind you, under our current mgmt it is exactly what we have become anyway bar the roving keeper!

I think they have missed a trick a bit, but again its the elephant in the room of "what will get through congress rather than the best thing to do". They really need to push a motion through congress that a 51% majority is enough to get something through...... but would get that the majority through congr..... ahhh jesus I dunno, my head is fried

[jerryewe]

I think the 40m arc will be more trouble than it’s worth. There is no way it could be done at club games because it’s hard to see all the pitches being lined correctly and that’s before you get to referees having to judge of someone is inside or outside. You can imagine the chaos with a last minute shot in a 1 point game right in the line. Even at inter county level with cameras & clear lines it is hard for a referee to judge exactly where a shot was taken from.

Also in the article on Rte this morning, 1 of the players pointed out a situation where it might be more advantageous to try and win a 45 instead of scoring a point. Imagine kerry 1 point down in the all Ireland, David Clifford has the ball surrounded by defenders bearing down on goal, instead of going for goal or taking his point he punches the ball against a defense to win a 45 to get 2 points for the win. I know that’s a very specific situation but those are the things that have to be taken into account as they will be exploited.

[blacksheep21]

I am ok with or have no strong objection currently untill I see in action most of the proposed rules.

I don’t like the advanced mark, I would just get rid of it completely. However there will be relatively few of them.

Also I am not a fan of the scoring arc. It is so random and over rewards what in a lot of cases not that special a skill. There is as much skill in a corner forward timing his run, beating his man and knocking over the bar from 30 metres than kicking the ball from 40 metres in front of the posts. It does not seem right that a score of 2-6 would beat 0-19.

I think the penalty for a 45 is already too harsh and now we are literally doubling it.

[kot]

Oct 18, 2024 12:42:54 GMT jerryewe said:

I think the 40m arc will be more trouble than it’s worth. There is no way it could be done at club games because it’s hard to see all the pitches being lined correctly and that’s before you get to referees having to judge of someone is inside or outside. You can imagine the chaos with a last minute shot in a 1 point game right in the line. Even at inter county level with cameras & clear lines it is hard for a referee to judge exactly where a shot was taken from.

Also in the article on Rte this morning, 1 of the players pointed out a situation where it might be more advantageous to try and win a 45 instead of scoring a point. Imagine kerry 1 point down in the all Ireland, David Clifford has the ball surrounded by defenders bearing down on goal, instead of going for goal or taking his point he punches the ball against a defense to win a 45 to get 2 points for the win. I know that’s a very specific situation but those are the things that have to be taken into account as they will be exploited.

Jesus I thought I had thought of a lot of scenarios but not that one

[jerryewe]

Oct 18, 2024 13:58:03 GMT kot said:

Oct 18, 2024 12:42:54 GMT jerryewe said:

I think the 40m arc will be more trouble than it’s worth. There is no way it could be done at club games because it’s hard to see all the pitches being lined correctly and that’s before you get to referees having to judge of someone is inside or outside. You can imagine the chaos with a last minute shot in a 1 point game right in the line. Even at inter county level with cameras & clear lines it is hard for a referee to judge exactly where a shot was taken from.

Also in the article on Rte this morning, 1 of the players pointed out a situation where it might be more advantageous to try and win a 45 instead of scoring a point. Imagine kerry 1 point down in the all Ireland, David Clifford has the ball surrounded by defenders bearing down on goal, instead of going for goal or taking his point he punches the ball against a defense to win a 45 to get 2 points for the win. I know that’s a very specific situation but those are the things that have to be taken into account as they will be exploited.

Jesus I thought I had thought of a lot of scenarios but not that one

I hadn’t either until I read that article this morning. Even if you think back to the last minute of the final this year and Galway had a couple of attacks to equalize. Would it have changed their approach if they could have played to win a 45 to win the game instead of trying to equalize? Would that have opened up more space for the attack as Armagh wouldn’t want to concede a 45 and would need to prevent that as well as blocking the shooting zone in front of goal?

It’s all hypotethical of course at this point but I thought it was an interesting viewpoint.

[john4]

45's count as 1 point as it is now. Only shots from play outside the 40 arc count as 2

[horsebox77]

I’m old fashioned and being honest the majority of rule changes bug me. I recall the 1990 league was played over four quarters and the keeper kicked the ball from the hand – nether lasted beyond Spring.

The only notable rule change that hasn’t caused consternation in my opinion over the last twenty years was the kickouts from the 14-yard line as opposed to from the corner of the small square, free kicks from the hand and sideline balls from the hands.

Other rule changes have ended up in numerous debates, was it a square ball, wasn’t it a square ball. Did he close the fist punching the ball over the bar or was it palmed, was it a black card or would yellow have sufficed. Actually, sorry, I agree with the yellow and red card s as well and to clearly identifies that a player was booked.. it’s just a lot of these rules are still down to one man’s interpretation.

As for the new rules, four points for a goal, may increase the goal scoring ration, the 45-line arc, I’m up and down about it. I have an issue with the keeper kicking the ball out a certain distance. How would this be done say, this weekend with a gale force wind, when it would take a superhuman to manage it.

I have a serious issue with the tap and go from a defender’s point of view. Just imagine a forward takes his mark and goes towards goal, the defender makes a goal saving block. The new rules would allow the forward a second go… where is the reward for the great defending. No, I’m not a fan of the mark and would kill.

As for a certain number of players within a zone, yes, in theory it makes sense, but how is a club or junior referee going to manage this, we are again piling more rules onto an already burdened official.

Why didn’t they introduce the clock.. similar to rugby to take that aspect out of the referee’s hands…

I think we may be causing more trouble.. certain rules yes, I can agree with but others I can’t fathom the logic or fallout.

Maybe I might be more educated after this weekend….

[givehimaball]

Oct 18, 2024 12:42:54 GMT jerryewe said:

Also in the article on Rte this morning, 1 of the players pointed out a situation where it might be more advantageous to try and win a 45 instead of scoring a point. Imagine kerry 1 point down in the all Ireland, David Clifford has the ball surrounded by defenders bearing down on goal, instead of going for goal or taking his point he punches the ball against a defense to win a 45 to get 2 points for the win. I know that’s a very specific situation but those are the things that have to be taken into account as they will be exploited.

Converted 45s will continue to be worth 1 point so this scenario would never happen.

www.gaa.ie/article/frc-deliberate-seven-core-enhancements-for-gaelic-football

[royalkerryfan]

Until we have meaningful games with something on the line we won't really know if these changes have worked.

A 12 month trial with a intelligence team observing them and making tweaks if needed.

Personally I support them because the game that we grew up with is dead.

These rules should benefit the skillful athletic teams and you'd expect Kerry to really benefit.

For too long being fit and organised was enough to negate the better skillful teams.

Ultimately the evidence was in the attendances last year.

People are fed up and I will now renew my season ticket because I couldn't face another year of pass the parcel.

[Attacking Wing Back]

Will wait and see how the rules go this evening. I think the 3 up the pitch is going to be hard to police. Can you imagine a ball is kicked up the field and is rolling slowly towards the half way line. And the 3 back are forwards in stuck in the other half like sheep in a pen. They cant go near it until it eventually crosses the line. Or if it doesn't make the the line they have to wait for a teammate to get to the ball to pass it to them.

Scoring arc worth 2 point I thought applied to free kicks tho??

- Solo and go is fine
- Advanced mark is fine. ( I think it should be a defined advantage though) The ref could let it play for ages and then call it back.
- Kickouts are fine
- Goalie stuck in his box is fine.
- 50m penalty for dissent is grand.
- Expanding the black card so it applies to cynical fouls as opposed to just being pulled down is fine

I can see some of them being left on the committee room floor after the vote though.

I think the 3 up and the scoring arc will be the most difficult to get the votes. Maybe 5/6 will get thru but, not all

[horsebox77]

Oct 18, 2024 15:09:01 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Ultimately the evidence was in the attendances last year..

This is the question, what is the primary goal, improve the game we love or increase footfall and revenue?

I was listening to a podcast recently where a Leinster delegate openly stated that Dublin when even playing in a provincial quarter, regardless of opposition would fill Croker in the early to mid 2010's.... now a leinster final can only muster a half full Croker at best... he was advocating more a balancing of finances not a radical rule change.... he was blaming the footfall and lack of gate on the fact the Gaa created and financed a blue wave monster, that has ultimately come back and bitten them.

He made a compelling arguement.

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 18, 2024 15:31:48 GMT horsebox77 said:

Oct 18, 2024 15:09:01 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Ultimately the evidence was in the attendances last year..

This is the question, what is the primary goal, improve the game we love or increase footfall and revenue?

I was listening to a podcast recently where a Leinster delegate openly stated that Dublin when even playing in a provincial quarter, regardless of opposition would fill Croker in the early to mid 2010's.... now a leinster final can only muster a half full Croker at best... he was advocating more a balancing of finances not a radical rule change.... he was blaming the footfall and lack of gate on the fact the Gaa created and financed a blue wave monster, that has ultimately come back and bitten them.

He made a compelling arguement.

I would imagine it's all of the above.

Revenue will ultimately drive these things but ultimately supports particular the fair weather variety are staying away.

[powerhurl]

The only rules that might stay are the one v one for throw in and the tap and go the rest will fall and probably for the best

[Whosinmidfield]

Oct 18, 2024 16:09:12 GMT powerhurl said:

The only rules that might stay are the one v one for throw in and the tap and go the rest will fall and probably for the best

Can’t understand this attitude.. the core ones are going to infinitely improve the game.

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 18, 2024 16:09:12 GMT powerhurl said:

The only rules that might stay are the one v one for throw in and the tap and go the rest will fall and probably for the best

Based on what ?

Honestly I cannot understand this attitude.

The game is dying open your eyes.

The best minds in the game have come up with these.

The players support them.

[powerhurl]

Unless football is played with a certain attitude based on attack you can fool with rules and have what ever minds you like but it will just get overly hard to officiate

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 18, 2024 16:32:01 GMT powerhurl said:

Unless football is played with a certain attitude based on attack you can fool with rules and have what ever minds you like but it will just get overly hard to officiate

No offence but if it was that simple these rules wouldn't be needed.

I take your point re officiating but the feedback from inter county refs has been positive.

[powerhurl]

I hope it works out because football in full flow is as good as it gets

[exiled]

After watching the first game I can't see much improvement. The elephant in the room hasn't been addressed. Namely the handpass. Plus giving 2 points for a free from 40mts is too much. Also the restart should have to travel beyond the 45

[veteran]

Surely a return of the four quarters is not one of the recommendations?

[royalkerryfan]

It's a positive for me,

Much quicker,

Risks are rewarded

Long kickouts,

Refs punish slowing the game with 50 Meter frees.

Early days but good so far.

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 18, 2024 19:42:37 GMT veteran said:

Surely a return of the four quarters is not one of the recommendations?

No it's just for these trials.

[thehermit]

Oct 18, 2024 16:32:01 GMT powerhurl said:

Unless football is played with a certain attitude based on attack you can fool with rules and have what ever minds you like but it will just get overly hard to officiate

There's definitely something to that, look at EK v Dingle last Sunday. What a great game with two teams prepared to go out and win playing FOOTBALL.

If the attitude was right there's not a huge amount wrong with the rules we have.

[thehermit]

Oct 18, 2024 15:31:48 GMT horsebox77 said:

Oct 18, 2024 15:09:01 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Ultimately the evidence was in the attendances last year..

This is the question, what is the primary goal, improve the game we love or increase footfall and revenue?

I was listening to a podcast recently where a Leinster delegate openly stated that Dublin when even playing in a provincial quarter, regardless of opposition would fill Croker in the early to mid 2010's.... now a leinster final can only muster a half full Croker at best... he was advocating more a balancing of finances not a radical rule change.... he was blaming the footfall and lack of gate on the fact the Gaa created and financed a blue wave monster, that has ultimately come back and bitten them.

He made a compelling arguement.

EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING SINCE 2011 - but no hermit is a prophet in his own land (or HS eh Horse  )

[thehermit]

Personally not sure about the 4 points for a goal, not sure about the arch either. No issue with 1 v 1, new mark or the solo and go, 3 outside players in their own half should be fine too - though Morgan coming out is creating a 12 v 11 which is interesting.

like the way dissent results in 13m in free, think Star used be advocating the likes of that.

[royalkerryfan]

Oct 18, 2024 19:50:48 GMT thehermit said:

Personally not sure about the 4 points for a goal, not sure about the arch either. No issue with 1 v 1, new mark or the solo and go, 3 outside players in their own half should be fine too - though Morgan coming out is creating a 12 v 11 which is interesting.

like the way dissent results in 13m in free, think Star used be advocating the likes of that.

The 4 points for a goal is a direct result of having 2 points for a kick outside the arch.

Otherwise the risk v reward isint there.

[veteran]

Oct 18, 2024 19:43:44 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Oct 18, 2024 19:42:37 GMT veteran said:

Surely a return of the four quarters is not one of the recommendations?

No it's just for these trials.

Delighted to hear that Royal.

[royalkerryfan]

A huge aspect of this and something that has killed us is stamina and athleticism.

11 players do the majority of the running and the 3 forwards generally won't change.

Kerry need top look at rotating those 3 forwards.

[john4]

Fitness is going to be massively important.

I'm exhausted looking at it, these are fit lads and they're struggle at the end of that.

Supposed to be going back to 35 minute halves if/when implemented. I'm glad I'm not still playing - couldn't do that 😉

[goforit2]

I think the changes are positive. Reduces cynical play. Defending 1 vs 1 more. Long kicking. More space for inside forwards. Need huge levels of fitness, bring in rolling subs. Get rid of the 2 flags for 2 points. Lots of positives. I hope the changes come in.