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Post by john4 on Oct 18, 2024 20:53:12 GMT
I think the changes are positive. Reduces cynical play. Defending 1 vs 1 more. Long kicking. More space for inside forwards. Need huge levels of fitness, bring in rolling subs. Get rid of the 2 flags for 2 points. Lots of positives. I hope the changes come in. Would the red flag on its own not be sufficient for the 2 pointer? |
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Post by The16thMan on Oct 18, 2024 20:54:59 GMT
Game was definitely quicker, restart to shot time was definitely a lot shorter than what it would be normally. Normally you could be looking at 3 minutes (at least) to work a shot, definitely wasn't that tonight.
Definitely more resemblance to the game that was played 20 years ago, although there is still an overuse of handpassing going on but overall I found the games to be a alot fast than the average game has been over the last number of years.
Should be 2 tighter games tomorrow, which should give us an even better indication.
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Post by gaaforlife on Oct 18, 2024 20:58:16 GMT
Will wait and see how the rules go this evening. I think the 3 up the pitch is going to be hard to police. Can you imagine a ball is kicked up the field and is rolling slowly towards the half way line. And the 3 back are forwards in stuck in the other half like sheep in a pen. They cant go near it until it eventually crosses the line. Or if it doesn't make the the line they have to wait for a teammate to get to the ball to pass it to them. Scoring arc worth 2 point I thought applied to free kicks tho?? - Solo and go is fine - Advanced mark is fine. ( I think it should be a defined advantage though) The ref could let it play for ages and then call it back. - Kickouts are fine - Goalie stuck in his box is fine. - 50m penalty for dissent is grand. - Expanding the black card so it applies to cynical fouls as opposed to just being pulled down is fine I can see some of them being left on the committee room floor after the vote though. I think the 3 up and the scoring arc will be the most difficult to get the votes. Maybe 5/6 will get thru but, not all Why won't the 3 players up stay this is best rule of all and the 2 pt goid |
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Post by gaaforlife on Oct 18, 2024 20:59:27 GMT
Game was definitely quicker, restart to shot time was definitely a lot shorter than what it would be normally. Normally you could be looking at 3 minutes (at least) to work a shot, definitely wasn't that tonight. Definitely more resemblance to the game that was played 20 years ago, although there is still an overuse of handpassing going on but overall I found the games to be a alot fast than the average game has been over the last number of years. Should be 2 tighter games tomorrow, which should give us an even better . Hand passing can be effective going forward wasn't that much over use tonight not going please everyone |
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Post by gaaforlife on Oct 18, 2024 21:00:32 GMT
Fitness is going to be massively important. I'm exhausted looking at it, these are fit lads and they're struggle at the end of that. Supposed to be going back to 35 minute halves if/when implemented. I'm glad I'm not still playing - couldn't do that 😉 So what u suggest try nothing. It's early players will adapt and maybe some will go forward but not aa fast all time and time when to go quick and all that |
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Post by gaaforlife on Oct 18, 2024 21:01:44 GMT
A huge aspect of this and something that has killed us is stamina and athleticism. 11 players do the majority of the running and the 3 forwards generally won't change. Kerry need top look at rotating those 3 forwards. However look it it will suit 3 of best forwards oshea clifford x2 work on fitness yes but when energy is going forward that help kerry then using it break down defences . |
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Post by gaaforlife on Oct 18, 2024 21:02:57 GMT
I’m old fashioned and being honest the majority of rule changes bug me. I recall the 1990 league was played over four quarters and the keeper kicked the ball from the hand – nether lasted beyond Spring. The only notable rule change that hasn’t caused consternation in my opinion over the last twenty years was the kickouts from the 14-yard line as opposed to from the corner of the small square, free kicks from the hand and sideline balls from the hands. Other rule changes have ended up in numerous debates, was it a square ball, wasn’t it a square ball. Did he close the fist punching the ball over the bar or was it palmed, was it a black card or would yellow have sufficed. Actually, sorry, I agree with the yellow and red card s as well and to clearly identifies that a player was booked.. it’s just a lot of these rules are still down to one man’s interpretation. As for the new rules, four points for a goal, may increase the goal scoring ration, the 45-line arc, I’m up and down about it. I have an issue with the keeper kicking the ball out a certain distance. How would this be done say, this weekend with a gale force wind, when it would take a superhuman to manage it. I have a serious issue with the tap and go from a defender’s point of view. Just imagine a forward takes his mark and goes towards goal, the defender makes a goal saving block. The new rules would allow the forward a second go… where is the reward for the great defending. No, I’m not a fan of the mark and would kill. As for a certain number of players within a zone, yes, in theory it makes sense, but how is a club or junior referee going to manage this, we are again piling more rules onto an already burdened official. Why didn’t they introduce the clock.. similar to rugby to take that aspect out of the referee’s hands… I think we may be causing more trouble.. certain rules yes, I can agree with but others I can’t fathom the logic or fallout. Maybe I might be more educated after this weekend…. [br Serious issue with rial rules serious with everything trying to change ye people have issue with everything but will still moan oh its so boring so what can they do only try some change or unless some ego managers change attiude which they won't |
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Post by gaaforlife on Oct 18, 2024 21:04:09 GMT
Unless football is played with a certain attitude based on attack you can fool with rules and have what ever minds you like but it will just get overly hard to officiate There's definitely something to that, look at EK v Dingle last Sunday. What a great game with two teams prepared to go out and win playing FOOTBALL. If the attitude was right there's not a huge amount wrong with the rules we have. But you won't change attiude without some tweaking first. Yes ideally shouldn't need change rules but have too many defensive cynical managers . |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 18, 2024 21:05:52 GMT
The two Armagh boys not overly impressed with the rules.
Tough luck lads it was Ulster football tactics that have brought us to this point.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Oct 18, 2024 21:15:57 GMT
It is certainly an improvement and a lot more space in attack. 3v3 will got through as will the tap and go. I think the scoring arc won’t happen as the others will achieve their goal.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 18, 2024 21:19:46 GMT
It is certainly an improvement and a lot more space in attack. 3v3 will got through as will the tap and go. I think the scoring arc won’t happen as the others will achieve their goal. I expect them all to pass. Rules can only be changed every 5 years and given they have a 12 month trial and that each is designed to compliment the other I'd expect them to pass. Too much work has gone into this by heavy hitters in the GAA. |
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Post by goforit2 on Oct 18, 2024 21:29:16 GMT
I think the changes are positive. Reduces cynical play. Defending 1 vs 1 more. Long kicking. More space for inside forwards. Need huge levels of fitness, bring in rolling subs. Get rid of the 2 flags for 2 points. Lots of positives. I hope the changes come in. Would the red flag on its own not be sufficient for the 2 pointer? I agree. |
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Post by The16thMan on Oct 18, 2024 21:41:51 GMT
Would the red flag on its own not be sufficient for the 2 pointer? I agree. Could be wrong but I think the umpire has to wave the white flag to let the ref know it was a point. The ref then lets the umpire know it was kicked from outside the arc by raising his 2 arms after which the umpire raises the red flag, confirming a 2 pointer. |
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Post by john4 on Oct 18, 2024 21:58:19 GMT
Could be wrong but I think the umpire has to wave the white flag to let the ref know it was a point. The ref then lets the umpire know it was kicked from outside the arc by raising his 2 arms after which the umpire raises the red flag, confirming a 2 pointer. ah okay. I see now 👍 |
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Post by john4 on Oct 18, 2024 22:03:12 GMT
Fitness is going to be massively important. I'm exhausted looking at it, these are fit lads and they're struggle at the end of that. Supposed to be going back to 35 minute halves if/when implemented. I'm glad I'm not still playing - couldn't do that 😉 So what u suggest try nothing. It's early players will adapt and maybe some will go forward but not aa fast all time and time when to go quick and all that Oh no I'm for change, just saying my first impression was the frantic nature of it is unsustainable. Fast and all as hurling is, every now and again the ball hits the deck and lads could be belting it and each other around the place for a few seconds - it'd give fellas a breather anyway. The new football is full on end to end. I really didn't think going from 15 to 12 defenders would create as much space |
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,339
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Post by horsebox77 on Oct 18, 2024 22:05:17 GMT
I’m old fashioned and being honest the majority of rule changes bug me. I recall the 1990 league was played over four quarters and the keeper kicked the ball from the hand – nether lasted beyond Spring. The only notable rule change that hasn’t caused consternation in my opinion over the last twenty years was the kickouts from the 14-yard line as opposed to from the corner of the small square, free kicks from the hand and sideline balls from the hands. Other rule changes have ended up in numerous debates, was it a square ball, wasn’t it a square ball. Did he close the fist punching the ball over the bar or was it palmed, was it a black card or would yellow have sufficed. Actually, sorry, I agree with the yellow and red card s as well and to clearly identifies that a player was booked.. it’s just a lot of these rules are still down to one man’s interpretation. As for the new rules, four points for a goal, may increase the goal scoring ration, the 45-line arc, I’m up and down about it. I have an issue with the keeper kicking the ball out a certain distance. How would this be done say, this weekend with a gale force wind, when it would take a superhuman to manage it. I have a serious issue with the tap and go from a defender’s point of view. Just imagine a forward takes his mark and goes towards goal, the defender makes a goal saving block. The new rules would allow the forward a second go… where is the reward for the great defending. No, I’m not a fan of the mark and would kill. As for a certain number of players within a zone, yes, in theory it makes sense, but how is a club or junior referee going to manage this, we are again piling more rules onto an already burdened official. Why didn’t they introduce the clock.. similar to rugby to take that aspect out of the referee’s hands… I think we may be causing more trouble.. certain rules yes, I can agree with but others I can’t fathom the logic or fallout. Maybe I might be more educated after this weekend…. [br Serious issue with rial rules serious with everything trying to change ye people have issue with everything but will still moan oh its so boring so what can they do only try some change or unless some ego managers change attiude which they won't Yes and no, certain aspects have to change, that I agree on.. I just don't agree with all the changes. One has to be realistic. Have you gone to any lower tier club game recently. Witness the refereeing and see would any single one of these rules be applied correctly. I found tonight a hard watch... for me nothing improved ... can anyone say tonight was a 'game changer' there was no consequences no trap door... it was a glorified challenge game... it was hard to quantify alterations to our game based on such terms... I'm notbsaying I'm right, it's just my opinion. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 18, 2024 22:13:01 GMT
[br Serious issue with rial rules serious with everything trying to change ye people have issue with everything but will still moan oh its so boring so what can they do only try some change or unless some ego managers change attiude which they won't Yes and no, certain aspects have to change, that I agree on.. I just don't agree with all the changes. One has to be realistic. Have you gone to any lower tier club game recently. Witness the refereeing and see would any single one of these rules be applied correctly. I found tonight a hard watch... for me nothing improved ... can anyone say tonight was a 'game changer' there was no consequences no trap door... it was a glorified challenge game... it was hard to quantify alterations to our game based on such terms... I'm notbsaying I'm right, it's just my opinion. Tonight was a charity match so to speak. Until something is on the line we won't know. But let's give it 12 months. I trust that the lads who developed these rules have the best interests of the game at heart. |
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Post by paudief on Oct 19, 2024 8:01:19 GMT
Would the red flag on its own not be sufficient for the 2 pointer?
That's what I thought. Also they should change the colour, red is conventionally for something bad. Change it to orange, then you'd have green, white and orange flags!
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Post by paudief on Oct 19, 2024 8:11:27 GMT
I'm a big fan of the changes - more space, more kicking, more shot-attempts, what everyone wanted.
I kept thinking watching the game 'I'd love to see Kerry play under these rules', David Clifford, Sean O'Shea, and pretty much any forward must be hoping they go through.
Let's get back to attacking players being able to express themselves, not these putrid, robotic defensive systems we've seen over the last few years. That's been the most depressing thing watching the game the last few years. What first sparks your interest in the game as a kid, is watching creative players express themselves; and all we've seen in the last few years are these systems, where players are like identical clones, afraid to do anything bar a hand-pass that they're 99% sure will succeed.
The new rules should help redress the balance a bit.
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Post by paudief on Oct 19, 2024 8:22:59 GMT
After watching the first game I can't see much improvement. The elephant in the room hasn't been addressed. Namely the handpass. Plus giving 2 points for a free from 40mts is too much. Also the restart should have to travel beyond the 45
It has though, they've just come at it from a different direction, they do it by incentivising kicking more. They've done it in a number of ways: - Longer kickouts (short kickouts led to hand-passing up the field) - 3 players up (more players to kick forward to on the break) - 2 point arc (will force defenders to come out and defend the 2-point arc, creating more space to kick to inside) - 4-point goal (incentivises kicking into full-forward line).
It's really quite smart in my opinion, and you could see the result in the trial games, a much higher proportion of kick to hand-passes than normal.
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pillar
Senior Member
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Post by pillar on Oct 19, 2024 8:47:55 GMT
I can't get my head around the whole thing. First of all get a trendy title..the FRC..sounds like a guerilla group in South America. I watched the game and it's like watching a game a foreign sport. I think it's pure bunkum to make up all these scenario rules to try and make it more open...
3 v 3 in the half a nightmare for a ref in a Tuesday night junior match . But what it also creates straight away is defend with 11 at all times. And the penalty for not having 3 up is an easy point at the other end. Might be easier to install an electric fence at the halfway line.
The advance mark is totally disabling the art of defending.
I watched plenty club matches all year and there is nothing wrong with the game provided the management teams approach it right. A big problem now is the amount of money committed to inter county teams. The first thing they want to become is hard to beat, hence defensive football. Achieve that and the coach will get a second year, more money.
We're trying to change the game because of 32 teams .
Wish they'd just call it out for what it is..coaches ruining the game. Then having fellas on doing analysis of the game. The same lads involved with teams that have made sugar of the game.
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Post by powerhurl on Oct 19, 2024 10:17:22 GMT
Well said Pillar.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Oct 19, 2024 10:47:48 GMT
You can call it out all you want, Pat Spillane called it out years ago, nothing has changed, game needs to evolve, rules need to change.
Appreciate it will bring challenges.
I think lots of positives for sure, some tweaks will be needed, but that’s the reason for these experiment games we need to learn from them for sure.
The game will evolve with the new rules, takes time for these things to happen, but I think we all agree the change is welcome.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Oct 19, 2024 10:56:15 GMT
But what it also creates straight away is defend with 11 at all times. And the penalty for not having 3 up is an easy point at the other end. Might be easier to install an electric fence at the halfway line. The advance mark is totally disabling the art of defending. I watched plenty club matches all year and there is nothing wrong with the game provided the management teams approach it right. I don’t get your first point, as opposed to defending with 15 at all times? The advance mark is pretty much gone now, I’m not sure was there any last night. It’s much harder to catch a clean pass inside the 21 from outside the 45. The tap and go and the kickouts being taken without everyone outside the 21 do eliminate most of the breaks in play and will make it a very high paced, tiring game for players. |
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Oct 19, 2024 11:35:37 GMT
I can't get my head around the whole thing. First of all get a trendy title..the FRC..sounds like a guerilla group in South America. I watched the game and it's like watching a game a foreign sport. I think it's pure bunkum to make up all these scenario rules to try and make it more open... 3 v 3 in the half a nightmare for a ref in a Tuesday night junior match . But what it also creates straight away is defend with 11 at all times. And the penalty for not having 3 up is an easy point at the other end. Might be easier to install an electric fence at the halfway line. The advance mark is totally disabling the art of defending. I watched plenty club matches all year and there is nothing wrong with the game provided the management teams approach it right. A big problem now is the amount of money committed to inter county teams. The first thing they want to become is hard to beat, hence defensive football. Achieve that and the coach will get a second year, more money. We're trying to change the game because of 32 teams . Wish they'd just call it out for what it is..coaches ruining the game. Then having fellas on doing analysis of the game. The same lads involved with teams that have made sugar of the game. If you watched the Derry semi final last week and say there’s nothing wrong with the game then fair play to you, you must have a lot of patience. Club football in Ulster is the closest thing to inter county in terms of desperate scoring and every player behind the ball. So to say it’s because of 32 is not true. Coaches will not change until the rules forces them to. Although this may result in bigger scorelines between them, it will be up to the GAA to avoid as many mismatches as possible. |
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Post by greenandgold on Oct 19, 2024 11:36:34 GMT
Agree with many saying we wont know for sure until matches with something on the line are played with these rules- I reckon they will get voted in for the trial year- too many big guns involved in the development and everyone agrees something has to change.
I though most of them worked in as much as they addressed something specific but biggest thing for me last night was the discipline and punishment for infringements - strong refs last night and having them mic’ed up was great but as we keep saying - how does that work for a club game or even an early inter-county game. I do think the rules go back to favouring strong kicking teams and prob favour strong forwards - interesting also how quickly a big score gap opened in the first game- reminded me of what used to happen 20yrs ago when a stronger team played a weaker team- prob when the current defensive systems were conceived- but that could solve one problem and create another. Will watch again today esp the ‘final’ - something to play for in that so might be a little bit of a truer test
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pillar
Senior Member
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Post by pillar on Oct 19, 2024 12:08:54 GMT
I can't get my head around the whole thing. First of all get a trendy title..the FRC..sounds like a guerilla group in South America. I watched the game and it's like watching a game a foreign sport. I think it's pure bunkum to make up all these scenario rules to try and make it more open... 3 v 3 in the half a nightmare for a ref in a Tuesday night junior match . But what it also creates straight away is defend with 11 at all times. And the penalty for not having 3 up is an easy point at the other end. Might be easier to install an electric fence at the halfway line. The advance mark is totally disabling the art of defending. I watched plenty club matches all year and there is nothing wrong with the game provided the management teams approach it right. A big problem now is the amount of money committed to inter county teams. The first thing they want to become is hard to beat, hence defensive football. Achieve that and the coach will get a second year, more money. We're trying to change the game because of 32 teams . Wish they'd just call it out for what it is..coaches ruining the game. Then having fellas on doing analysis of the game. The same lads involved with teams that have made sugar of the game. If you watched the Derry semi final last week and say there’s nothing wrong with the game then fair play to you, you must have a lot of patience. Club football in Ulster is the closest thing to inter county in terms of desperate scoring and every player behind the ball. So to say it’s because of 32 is not true. Coaches will not change until the rules forces them to. Although this may result in bigger scorelines between them, it will be up to the GAA to avoid as many mismatches as possible. Isn't that my point..club teams will start to mimic counties....call the bloody thing out |
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Premier
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,255
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Post by Premier on Oct 19, 2024 12:24:26 GMT
If you watched the Derry semi final last week and say there’s nothing wrong with the game then fair play to you, you must have a lot of patience. Club football in Ulster is the closest thing to inter county in terms of desperate scoring and every player behind the ball. So to say it’s because of 32 is not true. Coaches will not change until the rules forces them to. Although this may result in bigger scorelines between them, it will be up to the GAA to avoid as many mismatches as possible. Isn't that my point..club teams will start to mimic counties....call the bloody thing out How do you ‘call it out’, tell managers to stop playing with 15 behind the ball, please? |
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
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Post by horsebox77 on Oct 19, 2024 12:38:50 GMT
I can't get my head around the whole thing. First of all get a trendy title..the FRC..sounds like a guerilla group in South America. I watched the game and it's like watching a game a foreign sport. I think it's pure bunkum to make up all these scenario rules to try and make it more open... 3 v 3 in the half a nightmare for a ref in a Tuesday night junior match . But what it also creates straight away is defend with 11 at all times. And the penalty for not having 3 up is an easy point at the other end. Might be easier to install an electric fence at the halfway line. The advance mark is totally disabling the art of defending. I watched plenty club matches all year and there is nothing wrong with the game provided the management teams approach it right. A big problem now is the amount of money committed to inter county teams. The first thing they want to become is hard to beat, hence defensive football. Achieve that and the coach will get a second year, more money. We're trying to change the game because of 32 teams . Wish they'd just call it out for what it is..coaches ruining the game. Then having fellas on doing analysis of the game. The same lads involved with teams that have made sugar of the game. Sums it up for me.... |
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 546
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Post by pillar on Oct 19, 2024 12:54:35 GMT
Isn't that my point..club teams will start to mimic counties....call the bloody thing out How do you ‘call it out’, tell managers to stop playing with 15 behind the ball, please? [br Exactly..sure isn't that the core problem |
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