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Post by john4 on Oct 21, 2024 22:32:26 GMT
I like to see the 3 up and 3 back tweaked to 2 up and 2 back.
We're gone from a game with no space to a game with too much space.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Oct 21, 2024 23:10:31 GMT
I understand the logic of packaging the scoring arc with the new scoring system. If you dont incentivise teams to come out we will still have blanket defenses just will lower numbers. I think the 2 points should only be from play and not placed balls.
In reality I think what will happen is that teams will leave 4 back to mark the 3 forwards. Would you really want to leave the 2 cliffords and Paul Geaney one on one in 70 yards of space? So teams will attack with 10 players rather than the 11. So there will still be a plus one generated.
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,339
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Post by horsebox77 on Oct 21, 2024 23:18:59 GMT
Can't see many of the rules coming in because they will suit the bigger counties and also will be hard to police at club level. Very much inclined to agree with you homerj |
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Post by ciarraimick on Oct 21, 2024 23:44:56 GMT
Can't see many of the rules coming in because they will suit the bigger counties and also will be hard to police at club level. Very much inclined to agree with you homerj I disagree.The rules have always favoured the big counties and the Gaa like that.The Gaa have always been unfair to the weaker counties.Normally i say imo but this has been fact. |
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mike70
Senior Member
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Post by mike70 on Oct 22, 2024 5:34:42 GMT
The rules will be changing for sure and they have too, too big to fail😂.
This thing about the weaker counties is a poor argument, the reality is different counties have different levels, do we lower everything to accommodate Kilkenny football, no, but I do think the GAA has supported weaker counties to improve.
In sport there are always winners and losers.
I do agree the management of some of the new rules at club level will be challenging.
Let’s see what the brains come with, I think todate some very solid proposals.
One thing I would like added, is tie the keeper to the post with a 10 meter rope and not let him outside the box, including for frees.
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,339
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Post by horsebox77 on Oct 22, 2024 8:15:30 GMT
Look one can make a valid argument for either... if one just watched back any provincial game where it is a higher divisional side vs a team from the lower tier.. apply the new scoring rates of four for a goal and double the points outside the 49... it would be a cricket score.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 22, 2024 9:11:54 GMT
I like Fitzmaurice as a commentator and would generally be positive towards the new rules but his incessant cheerleading for the new rules was a bit tiresome. Anytime, something good happened it was because of the new rules. Jim Gavin was worse in the first game any time a player made a mistake or a poor play he’d make sure to say that had nothing to do with the new rules ! They really were cheerleadering these new rules. I do believe most, if not all, will be introduced. Based on 4 challenge matches over a 24 hour period is hardly sufficient testing ground. But I believe it will happen. They’re determined to make it happen. The modern game isn’t perfect, but there’s just too many new rules proposed. And some of them (the 1v1 throw in, handing the ball back to opponent etc) are just plain silly. Change for change sake. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Oct 22, 2024 10:12:21 GMT
Jim Gavin was worse in the first game any time a player made a mistake or a poor play he’d make sure to say that had nothing to do with the new rules ! They really were cheerleadering these new rules. I do believe most, if not all, will be introduced. Based on 4 challenge matches over a 24 hour period is hardly sufficient testing ground. But I believe it will happen. They’re determined to make it happen. The modern game isn’t perfect, but there’s just too many new rules proposed. And some of them (the 1v1 throw in, handing the ball back to opponent etc) are just plain silly. Change for change sake. Yeah im in two minds over the throw but agree that the handing the ball back is o.t.t.Just drop the ball and retreat. |
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Post by veteran on Oct 22, 2024 10:35:39 GMT
The rules will be changing for sure and they have too, too big to fail😂. This thing about the weaker counties is a poor argument, the reality is different counties have different levels, do we lower everything to accommodate Kilkenny football, no, but I do think the GAA has supported weaker counties to improve. In sport there are always winners and losers. I do agree the management of some of the new rules at club level will be challenging. Let’s see what the brains come with, I think todate some very solid proposals. One thing I would like added, is tie the keeper to the post with a 10 meter rope and not let him outside the box, including for frees. Totally agree about the goalkeeper and said so after I saw the match on Saturday evening . Most of the cross field nonsense we saw over the weekend was facilitated by his presence outfield. However, attaching him to the goal post with a rope might be a bit extreme! |
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exiled
Senior Member
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Post by exiled on Oct 22, 2024 11:26:05 GMT
I posted this after watching on Friday and after watching the 2nd day it's even more relevant. The biggest problem is the handpass enabling coaches to play the possession game. Restrictions on the handpass is the way forward. How would you propose to restrict the handpass? I just thought that all the best coaching minds getting together could have addressed the handpass. But we have to remember that the handpass is what changed football as we used know it. Coaches refuse to change the handpass as it's their greatest asset. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Oct 22, 2024 11:47:45 GMT
One could go back to the fisted pass only which is a little harder and tbh no more than hurling alot of the passes are being thrown anyway.
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Post by The16thMan on Oct 22, 2024 12:12:50 GMT
Looks as if they won't be proceeding with the 4 point goal, but still proposing the 2 pointer. 45's will only count for 1 point also.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Oct 22, 2024 12:48:30 GMT
Looks as if they won't be proceeding with the 4 point goal, but still proposing the 2 pointer. 45's will only count for 1 point also. I can understand why they are dropping the 4 point goalas there was so much expressing reservations with it. But, I think leaving it at 3 decreases its value in comparison to the new 2 point score. I dont think you will see the same buzz now when a goal is scored as its not as much of an advantage as it currently is. |
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Post by taibhse on Oct 22, 2024 15:47:58 GMT
Over the years and under different coaches/managers I have watched in-house challenge games in Fitzgerald Stadium where use of the handpass and solo run was regularly curtailed in one form or another. Broadly, there were different reasons for this experimentation that I don’t need to go into here. There was no expectation that was going to be the tactic on game day.
I invariably came away from those sessions with the thought of how the cursed handpass had, more than any other issue, eroded the enjoyment of our game. I’m old enough to remember pre handpass, mass defenses, incessant passing across and backward, solo runs, the mark, wandering goalkeepers, and the cards rules. Given the scope of that list of changes (by no means an exhausted list), it is scarcely the same Code anymore.
To remedy perceived problems in games, there are periods of experimentation to find out how the rules are working and what other changes might be desirable. Sometimes changes in some rules introduce new problems that call for further changes and that is precisely what the introduction of the handpass has done.
I happened to find myself in Dublin at the weekend and went along to see the games in headquarters. I found myself thinking that the bulk of the players were largely occupied by “what am I supposed to do now” rather than play a natural and uninhabited game. That improved slightly by Sunday - which I watched on the box. We will only know how any change will impact the game after a few Championship games - if they survive that long.
As a purist, I love the high fielding, especially from kickout. I would like to see the handpass abolished as I strongly believe that it is the elephant in the room. I am not going to do the old man thing but most of today’s fans have never experienced the game without this aberration. If we don’t get it right this time, there is a real risk that our youth will be turned off and older viewers will no longer recognize the game they fell in love with.
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Post by dc84 on Oct 22, 2024 15:54:03 GMT
Looks as if they won't be proceeding with the 4 point goal, but still proposing the 2 pointer. 45's will only count for 1 point also. I can understand why they are dropping the 4 point goalas there was so much expressing reservations with it. But, I think leaving it at 3 decreases its value in comparison to the new 2 point score. I dont think you will see the same buzz now when a goal is scored as its not as much of an advantage as it currently is. But overall it should make more of a difference the 2 pts that is as players can't sit back as much if it was 4 the incentive would be no goals at all costs. I think on balance the rules are decent tweaks needed but by God does something have to change |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 22, 2024 16:28:13 GMT
Jim Gavin was worse in the first game any time a player made a mistake or a poor play he’d make sure to say that had nothing to do with the new rules ! They really were cheerleadering these new rules. I do believe most, if not all, will be introduced. Based on 4 challenge matches over a 24 hour period is hardly sufficient testing ground. But I believe it will happen. They’re determined to make it happen. The modern game isn’t perfect, but there’s just too many new rules proposed. And some of them (the 1v1 throw in, handing the ball back to opponent etc) are just plain silly. Change for change sake. The throw in has to change in my view as its completely wrong that our games start with two lads fouling each other as is the case at the minute. On a separate note I was disappointed to see the reaction of the Armagh players after the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but surely there's universal acceptance that the game is badly in need of fixing and to react like that was poor in my opinion. |
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Post by dc84 on Oct 22, 2024 16:41:25 GMT
Did the armagh players take it personally I wonder re rules? Even though I wouldn't say they are any worse than anyone else re style of play at the moment kerry included. They have some fine kickers and I think would benefit from rule changes.
Anything that creates space and hence an opportunity to actually kick the ball is a good thing in my book barring goalies from coming out is one I wished they had implemented both from play and frees and 45s
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 22, 2024 16:55:08 GMT
Did the armagh players take it personally I wonder re rules? Even though I wouldn't say they are any worse than anyone else re style of play at the moment kerry included. They have some fine kickers and I think would benefit from rule changes. Anything that creates space and hence an opportunity to actually kick the ball is a good thing in my book barring goalies from coming out is one I wished they had implemented both from play and frees and 45s Funnily enough where has most negative reaction come from. I thought Peter Canvan spoke very well and positively about the proposed changes. Let's be honest here alot of the negative stuff started with Donegal in 2011. The goal keeper innovation of creating the extra free man also emanated in Ulster as well. The knock effect of that coaching innovation is thar teams were unable to fully press kickouts when the Keeper was acting like piggy in the middle. Not anti Ulster some unbelievable footballers but their negative reaction is telling. |
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mike70
Senior Member
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Post by mike70 on Oct 22, 2024 16:56:49 GMT
I am in favour of 1 on 1 in the middle, for far too long the throw ins have been a flash point, not to mention the potential for injury with players getting under jumpers, I think the throw ins the last day led to early attacks.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 22, 2024 17:29:26 GMT
They really were cheerleadering these new rules. I do believe most, if not all, will be introduced. Based on 4 challenge matches over a 24 hour period is hardly sufficient testing ground. But I believe it will happen. They’re determined to make it happen. The modern game isn’t perfect, but there’s just too many new rules proposed. And some of them (the 1v1 throw in, handing the ball back to opponent etc) are just plain silly. Change for change sake. The throw in has to change in my view as its completely wrong that our games start with two lads fouling each other as is the case at the minute. On a separate note I was disappointed to see the reaction of the Armagh players after the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but surely there's universal acceptance that the game is badly in need of fixing and to react like that was poor in my opinion. The throw in only lasts two seconds. It’s hardly the worst thing wrong with the game. I didn’t actually hear any other players interviewed, other than Grimley, O’Neill and Forker, so I doubt it’s only Armagh players who were dubious about some of the proposed rules. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 22, 2024 18:21:37 GMT
The throw in has to change in my view as its completely wrong that our games start with two lads fouling each other as is the case at the minute. On a separate note I was disappointed to see the reaction of the Armagh players after the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but surely there's universal acceptance that the game is badly in need of fixing and to react like that was poor in my opinion. The throw in only lasts two seconds. It’s hardly the worst thing wrong with the game. I didn’t actually hear any other players interviewed, other than Grimley, O’Neill and Forker, so I doubt it’s only Armagh players who were dubious about some of the proposed rules. I cannot think of another sport where the game starts with an unpunished foul. As for the lads I saw talk I found them rather dismissive of what the GAA are trying to do. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Oct 22, 2024 19:40:56 GMT
The throw in has to change in my view as its completely wrong that our games start with two lads fouling each other as is the case at the minute. On a separate note I was disappointed to see the reaction of the Armagh players after the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but surely there's universal acceptance that the game is badly in need of fixing and to react like that was poor in my opinion. The throw in only lasts two seconds. It’s hardly the worst thing wrong with the game. I didn’t actually hear any other players interviewed, other than Grimley, O’Neill and Forker, so I doubt it’s only Armagh players who were dubious about some of the proposed rules. Rian O Neill was a bit dismissive of the new rules on Friday eve but seemed more upbeat about them Sat eve as did Aidan Forker.Kieran Donaghy was critical of the rules leading up to the game. I guess after Armagh becoming champions they feel a change is upsetting their winning formula.I remember Kerry players ,management and fans being very dismissive of rule changes in 1981 which stopped players hand passing/palming/throwing the ball into the net for a goal. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 22, 2024 20:43:13 GMT
The throw in has to change in my view as its completely wrong that our games start with two lads fouling each other as is the case at the minute. On a separate note I was disappointed to see the reaction of the Armagh players after the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but surely there's universal acceptance that the game is badly in need of fixing and to react like that was poor in my opinion. The throw in only lasts two seconds. It’s hardly the worst thing wrong with the game. I didn’t actually hear any other players interviewed, other than Grimley, O’Neill and Forker, so I doubt it’s only Armagh players who were dubious about some of the proposed rules. "What an absolute load of nonsense, There's no need to completely change the game. Good luck to Dublin playing some team in division 4 in Leinster and putting 60 points on them with the new scoring" Connaire Macken Armagh.(Sports Joe.ie ) Sorry Connaire we are sick to death of modern game that has seen people staying away from the games. What's the motivation in saying that is it that you cannot play that muck defensive football anymore ? I will say this that he is right regarding the provincials and a side effect maybe to speed up the demise of the provincial championships. |
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 23, 2024 15:57:31 GMT
I have three main issues/concerns with any rule changes.
Firstly how easy will it be for officials to implement the changes on a consistent basis. With the arc, calling marginal kicks will give countless opportunities for the armchair pundits to zoom in and replay kicks to see was he inside or outside, not so easy to be 100% in a high intensity game, particularly if the ball moves upfield quickly. Same with the 3 up/back rule - its the marginal calls that worry me and we are looking at in effect two 2 "offside zones" on a pitch - incidentally whats the penalty for a breach of this rule.
Secondly how will the changes work in a division 5 game in an unmarked pitch with one official doing his best to officiate from the middle third of the field. Trialling the rules in Croke Park with elite players is one thing, how will it filter down to junior grades and juvenile matches where pitches are frequently unmarked.
The last thing we want to do is increase the frustration levels with officials which can lead to unsavoury rows and incidents.
Thirdly and finally I believe rules changes need to be looked at to determine how teams/managers are likely to react in terms of how they will game the new rules as they try to win at any cost. Perhaps this type of exam will only come over time in the heat of championship battle.
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Post by jerryewe on Oct 23, 2024 16:44:13 GMT
I have three main issues/concerns with any rule changes. Firstly how easy will it be for officials to implement the changes on a consistent basis. With the arc, calling marginal kicks will give countless opportunities for the armchair pundits to zoom in and replay kicks to see was he inside or outside, not so easy to be 100% in a high intensity game, particularly if the ball moves upfield quickly. Same with the 3 up/back rule - its the marginal calls that worry me and we are looking at in effect two 2 "offside zones" on a pitch - incidentally whats the penalty for a breach of this rule. Secondly how will the changes work in a division 5 game in an unmarked pitch with one official doing his best to officiate from the middle third of the field. Trialling the rules in Croke Park with elite players is one thing, how will it filter down to junior grades and juvenile matches where pitches are frequently unmarked. The last thing we want to do is increase the frustration levels with officials which can lead to unsavoury rows and incidents. Thirdly and finally I believe rules changes need to be looked at to determine how teams/managers are likely to react in terms of how they will game the new rules as they try to win at any cost. Perhaps this type of exam will only come over time in the heat of championship battle. I agree with the arc. I can already see a scenario where a team thinks they have a 2 point shot to draw a game and the official says it was inside the arc and it’s only 1 point. The Sunday Game that night would be about nothing else apart from this and at the end of the day it’s the referee who will beat the brunt of this as it is not possible for another official to help him out. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 23, 2024 18:18:30 GMT
We are all going to have to accept that these rule changes will not improve the game overnight and it may be years before we see real improvement.
When soccer banned the back pass to the keeper it took some time before you saw keepers who where good with the ball at their feet.
It'll just take time and patience.
Maurice Brosnan has reported that the 4 points for a goal will be binned.
I know the major concern is how these rules will work at club level but only time will tell but from a practical perspective you'd let club teams and club refs watch the intercounty game for one season before its introduced into the clubs.
Surely lads are excited about the prospect of a rejuvenated David Clifford with these rules.
He will cause havoc in there.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Oct 23, 2024 18:21:34 GMT
Just one other point,
If you are against these rules I really don't think you can moan next year when we are watching more *e football for large parts of the year.
If you want the game to improve surely you have to give these rules a chance.
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Post by thehermit on Oct 23, 2024 19:02:39 GMT
If they're ditching the 4 point goal but keeping the 2 point archy point it will be interesting to see the impact this has on goal scoring during League etc. You'd have to assume it devalues a goal and hence striving to score one, but I'd hate to see less goals being scored - its more we want, esp down here!!
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mg72
Full Member
Posts: 212
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Post by mg72 on Oct 23, 2024 19:04:20 GMT
I have three main issues/concerns with any rule changes. Firstly how easy will it be for officials to implement the changes on a consistent basis. With the arc, calling marginal kicks will give countless opportunities for the armchair pundits to zoom in and replay kicks to see was he inside or outside, not so easy to be 100% in a high intensity game, particularly if the ball moves upfield quickly. Same with the 3 up/back rule - its the marginal calls that worry me and we are looking at in effect two 2 "offside zones" on a pitch - incidentally whats the penalty for a breach of this rule. Secondly how will the changes work in a division 5 game in an unmarked pitch with one official doing his best to officiate from the middle third of the field. Trialling the rules in Croke Park with elite players is one thing, how will it filter down to junior grades and juvenile matches where pitches are frequently unmarked. The last thing we want to do is increase the frustration levels with officials which can lead to unsavoury rows and incidents. Thirdly and finally I believe rules changes need to be looked at to determine how teams/managers are likely to react in terms of how they will game the new rules as they try to win at any cost. Perhaps this type of exam will only come over time in the heat of championship battle. Yes, I agree with you that the new rules will be hard to referee consistently across the board if they're brought in. Pitches should be marked out correctly for every game. But as you say, a lot of matches are played now without pitches being marked. If the 40 metre arc comes in, will it be marked out at a shorter distance on an underage pitch. If that's the case, there'll be a lot of different lines on pitches which are used for grades both below under 13 and above for 15's, 17's and senior. As regards the 3 + 3 up, the penalties for a breach of this as far as I know are: (I'm open to correction if I'm wrong): If the team who are defending bring 1 of their 3 players back to help out defending, leaving only 2 forwards in the opposition half of the pitch, then the attacking team are awarded a free on the 20 metre line. If the team who are attacking bring 1 of their 3 defenders up the pitch to help out attacking, leaving only 2 defenders in their own half of the pitch, then the other team are awarded a free on the 20 metre line on your end of the pitch. If a player accidentally crosses the halfway line while going for the ball, the other team get a free where he crossed the half way line. If 2 players accidentally cross the halfway line in a tussle for the ball, then the ball is thrown up between 2 players where they crossed the halfway line. |
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Post by ciarraimick on Oct 23, 2024 19:52:34 GMT
There will be teething problems with the new rules and keepers will have a huge role but it will suit the likes of David Clifford who never has to go back into other half if he chooses.The 3 up 3 back rule can also be used to give players a breather.
It will really suit natural scorers too.Paul Geaney could have a big year in the forward line instead of burning energy chasing backs.Players with pace will bw excited too like Canavan.It would suit our own Donal Down.
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