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Post by hurlingman on Jul 18, 2024 9:55:16 GMT
Something I would wonder are lads like Adrian Spillane, Barry Dan etc going to commit again?
Adrian Spillane would be 30 I think and didn't even play at the weekend. Barry Dan would be 29 next year and is he going to stick around to get a few cameos here and there?
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
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Post by horsebox77 on Jul 18, 2024 11:55:18 GMT
Agree, love the podcast, I also listened to the Jimmy McGuinness one on the way to work Tuesday... fascinating insight to how he thinks and processes various various eventualities ... |
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Post by glengael on Jul 18, 2024 15:06:20 GMT
Agree, love the podcast, I also listened to the Jimmy McGuinness one on the way to work Tuesday... fascinating insight to how he thinks and processes various various eventualities ... McGuinness certainly seems to have changed his attitude to publicity since Kevin Cassidy was dispatched overboard for contributing to Declan Bogue's book in 2011... |
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Post by powerhurl on Jul 18, 2024 19:37:23 GMT
Heard from a good source that Barry dan will not be back next year.
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Post by thehermit on Jul 18, 2024 23:18:20 GMT
Project 2025 eh?
I suspect I am not the only one who has been brooding over the last few days, on the game, on the future.
In my case waves of despondency have begun to assail my mental shores, crumbling headlands of hope into a dark sea of depression.
So many stupid mistakes last weekend: hail Mary handpasses, scoring stats that would embarrass a junior club reserve side, yet again a seeming inability to collectively cope when a mistake (of our own making) derails our momentum. What came to pass was something I and many others have said on here months ago - can you really play in second gear all year and then suddenly be capable of going into fifth when its demanded by what the opposition do?
Well we got the answer didn't we.
That's one game , but one symptomatic of seasons at this point.
But my gloom is more my pondering of what's to come in the years ahead - factors internal and external to the sport itself.
Rural depopulation, underage teams amalgamating, so many clubs facing an uncertain future. Aussie's gutting our underage talent, minor success that's dried up, as incapable of taking an U20 title as we were an U21. Worse the hemorrhaging of players transitioning from underage to senior. Add in a current panel (on paper) capable of winning multiple titles but not able to and, as always now, the knowledge that Dublin will be a constant and a stronger power than we can ever be again.
The 2010s were dark times - yes we had joy in 2014 and other moments to elate and excite us, but overall it was a decade of despair. But you could (or at least I could) take solace in some moral high ground. Dublin's advantages are outrageous, home crowds, home referring, huge financial disparity etc - its not a level playing field. Still 2019 broke something inside me when it comes to my fanatical passion for the green and gold. Maybe ever since then I've felt its just not quite the same. I know I'm not the only one having talked to my friends.
But still there was hope, the hope that maybe, just maybe, it couldn't last for Dublin. That a new Kerry side would emerge to reclaim our status. And though we fluffed our line badly in 19 and 20 and 21 - finally we got there in 2022. What a day, what a season. And you felt, or maybe dreamed, this was it. Dublin are falling away a little, and we're going to be back in All Ireland's now every year, winning 3,4,5 over the next decade. But we blew it last year with the game to be won, blew it this year in the same way. And I honestly wonder if one title a decade or so now is the new reality.
I guess I was spoiled in my early 20s (even though there were bitter defeats too then to Tyrone). And I wonder am I getting too old, too cynical, too world worn to ever enjoy an All Ireland like I could in 2004 or 06/07 or 09.
I sometimes find myself waking up on random mornings, no matter what time of the year, and asking myself why do Kerry never get the breaks? What Gods decided we couldn't win this time or that time but our enemy can win it all. You think of all the luck Dublin have had (on tope of everything), goals against the run of play, dropped shots that hit the net or strikes deflected in, referee's seeing no evil and hearing no evil.
You know I started writing this and I'm not even sure what point I'm trying to make. I think I just needed to write it for my own sake!!
Notes from a hermit engulfed in an eternal winter...
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Post by Ballydonoghoor on Jul 18, 2024 23:48:55 GMT
Agree, love the podcast, I also listened to the Jimmy McGuinness one on the way to work Tuesday... fascinating insight to how he thinks and processes various various eventualities ... McGuinness certainly seems to have changed his attitude to publicity since Kevin Cassidy was dispatched overboard for contributing to Declan Bogue's book in 2011... From living in Dgal I though Jim was looking better this time around and it kinda turned out that way - many including myself feel Cassidy could have been much of the difference in '14 and while hindsight is a wonderful thing, turning the Donegal ship was no mean feat when the whip had to be cracked. Cassidy was often worth the gate money alone at club games and he has an amazing background - wasn't he born in 'The Gorbles' in Glasgow and, well, if it didn't kill you it made you stronger and strong was Kevin. I actually met his dad of a day and now that was a hard one to reconcile and Kevin told the story there - the GAA opens lots of doors to rare experiences. Anyway Dgal will come on for this year and if Jim gets a few lads who might otherwise have taken the soccer route then Ulster will be as exciting as ever. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 19, 2024 4:00:55 GMT
I sometimes find myself waking up on random mornings, no matter what time of the year, and asking myself why do Kerry never get the breaks? What Gods decided we couldn't win this time or that time but our enemy can win it all. You think of all the luck Dublin have had (on tope of everything), goals against the run of play, dropped shots that hit the net or strikes deflected in, referee's seeing no evil and hearing no evil. Even worse again, you sound like a Mayoman here. |
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Post by thehermit on Jul 19, 2024 8:45:09 GMT
I sometimes find myself waking up on random mornings, no matter what time of the year, and asking myself why do Kerry never get the breaks? What Gods decided we couldn't win this time or that time but our enemy can win it all. You think of all the luck Dublin have had (on tope of everything), goals against the run of play, dropped shots that hit the net or strikes deflected in, referee's seeing no evil and hearing no evil. Even worse again, you sound like a Mayoman here. And maybe Mayo have a point! |
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 19, 2024 11:33:09 GMT
Project 2025 eh? I suspect I am not the only one who has been brooding over the last few days, on the game, on the future. In my case waves of despondency have begun to assail my mental shores, crumbling headlands of hope into a dark sea of depression. So many stupid mistakes last weekend: hail Mary handpasses, scoring stats that would embarrass a junior club reserve side, yet again a seeming inability to collectively cope when a mistake (of our own making) derails our momentum. What came to pass was something I and many others have said on here months ago - can you really play in second gear all year and then suddenly be capable of going into fifth when its demanded by what the opposition do? Well we got the answer didn't we. That's one game , but one symptomatic of seasons at this point. But my gloom is more my pondering of what's to come in the years ahead - factors internal and external to the sport itself. Rural depopulation, underage teams amalgamating, so many clubs facing an uncertain future. Aussie's gutting our underage talent, minor success that's dried up, as incapable of taking an U20 title as we were an U21. Worse the hemorrhaging of players transitioning from underage to senior. Add in a current panel (on paper) capable of winning multiple titles but not able to and, as always now, the knowledge that Dublin will be a constant and a stronger power than we can ever be again. The 2010s were dark times - yes we had joy in 2014 and other moments to elate and excite us, but overall it was a decade of despair. But you could (or at least I could) take solace in some moral high ground. Dublin's advantages are outrageous, home crowds, home referring, huge financial disparity etc - its not a level playing field. Still 2019 broke something inside me when it comes to my fanatical passion for the green and gold. Maybe ever since then I've felt its just not quite the same. I know I'm not the only one having talked to my friends. But still there was hope, the hope that maybe, just maybe, it couldn't last for Dublin. That a new Kerry side would emerge to reclaim our status. And though we fluffed our line badly in 19 and 20 and 21 - finally we got there in 2022. What a day, what a season. And you felt, or maybe dreamed, this was it. Dublin are falling away a little, and we're going to be back in All Ireland's now every year, winning 3,4,5 over the next decade. But we blew it last year with the game to be won, blew it this year in the same way. And I honestly wonder if one title a decade or so now is the new reality. I guess I was spoiled in my early 20s (even though there were bitter defeats too then to Tyrone). And I wonder am I getting too old, too cynical, too world worn to ever enjoy an All Ireland like I could in 2004 or 06/07 or 09. I sometimes find myself waking up on random mornings, no matter what time of the year, and asking myself why do Kerry never get the breaks? What Gods decided we couldn't win this time or that time but our enemy can win it all. You think of all the luck Dublin have had (on tope of everything), goals against the run of play, dropped shots that hit the net or strikes deflected in, referee's seeing no evil and hearing no evil. You know I started writing this and I'm not even sure what point I'm trying to make. I think I just needed to write it for my own sake!! Notes from a hermit engulfed in an eternal winter... I think we can all empathise with some of your feelings. My nemesis is Gough - said to a guy the other day if Cawley had refereed out game we would be in the final - firmly believe that - Armagh scored 3 points of their own volition in the first half - Gough handed them the other 3. He kept Dublin on their run in 2016 - the blow to Crowley being by far the worst decision; about a year after, he broke his silence saying he didn’t see the incident & therefore there was nothing he could do - he could have stopped play & consulted with his linesman. Last year’s crucial decisions also went against us - Fitzsimons boots the ball over the end line, umpire signals a “45”, Gough awards a free out; Morley is in the ground, releases the ball, Scully takes 6 steps, play on, Dublin get the lead point 😡 Then I look at our tactics last weekend & shake my head - we have abandoned our kicking game, we have our full back line running the length of Croke Park & back - Paul Murphy scored the goal, Jason kicked a wide in extra time, Tom blazed wide - what in the name of God were they doing attacking from their positions?? No wonder we tired, intense game & we are asking guys to run & run!! The last image I have, unfortunately, is Gough & Dublin Joe sharing a joke as they left the pitch - it’s not one I want to store in my memory but it just won’t go away. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 19, 2024 12:55:41 GMT
At the very least, blaming refs or ref for Kerry losses won't make Kerry victory more likely.
Or rather players and management doing so.
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,339
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Post by horsebox77 on Jul 19, 2024 16:02:42 GMT
John Cleary staying put, hopefully Cork will challenge us more next week... a good Cork means a better Kerry
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Post by jerryewe on Jul 19, 2024 16:05:40 GMT
I think that one thing kerry need to do during the league is get players used to being the main man if David Clifford isn’t performing. There is a lot of good forwards on the Kerry panel who have never had a major performance that has been the winning of a game. I’m looking at the likes of Tony Brosnan & Killian Spillane to step up. To achieve this I think David Clifford should be rested from at least 3 games. He shouldn’t even be on the bench as this leads to him being sprung whenever there is any remote hint of danger.
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,222
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 19, 2024 22:39:19 GMT
I agree completely with thehermit and greengold35. But I suppose I am a bit different in that I analyse everything on the spot and chart a path forward.
The County Board is responsible at the highest level. The officers appear to think that if they keep things ticking over and everyone stays quiet and they get 3 or 4 years in a position they can move on to the Munster council and a few years later might even be in with a shout for GAA presidency. Meanwhile football is dying in front of their eyes in the Kingdom. Apart from the ’86 – ’97 period following 8 AI’s in 12 years, they are presiding over the PERIOD OF LEAST SUCCESS AT SENIOR LEVEL IN 100 YEARS, this following the winning of 5 minors in a row. All those minors are now aged between 22 and 28. In Offaly ex player Michael Duignan could not tolerate the same thing so put himself forward, got elected and now he seems to have turned things around and success is coming their way.
Jack O’Connor has made a management career of slipping into jobs where there were good players coming on stream and slipping out when he thought success might not come easy. Sometimes he misread it and slipped out prematurely and handed success to others. But an egoist like him would look on that as making the “right mistake”. The whistle was not out of the referee’s mouth at the end of the Kerry vs Tyrone game in 2021 when Jack was leaving Kildare. An inept CB which included some interesting decision makers refused to extend the incumbent’s term and appointed Jack. The problem with Jack is he doesn’t know how to set up an attacking team, or doesn’t see the merit in the players available or is completely fearful. Look at what some forwards scored in big games a few years ago and what they are scoring now when they are at their peak. One way or the other, he is not playing his hand properly so we are not getting the best out of our players. Teams with lesser players are dominating us and beating us.
The strength and conditioning debacle is also a disgrace.
That’s why we are where we are.
There is absolutely zero responsibility for the current mess on the players. They have always given 110% and always handled themselves with respect and dignity and there have been times when that cannot have been easy.
I calculate that I spend over €2,000 a year supporting Kerry and that doesn’t include my family having to plan things around Kerry fixtures. If there is not a major change that shows an awareness of what is best for Kerry football I will be opting out next year. Tinkering around the edges, like adding a random person as a “new attacking coach”, will not suffice, but it is the type of band-aid the CB would try to get away with putting on the gaping wound.
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 20, 2024 11:01:06 GMT
I agree completely with thehermit and greengold35. But I suppose I am a bit different in that I analyse everything on the spot and chart a path forward. The County Board is responsible at the highest level. The officers appear to think that if they keep things ticking over and everyone stays quiet and they get 3 or 4 years in a position they can move on to the Munster council and a few years later might even be in with a shout for GAA presidency. Meanwhile football is dying in front of their eyes in the Kingdom. Apart from the ’86 – ’97 period following 8 AI’s in 12 years, they are presiding over the PERIOD OF LEAST SUCCESS AT SENIOR LEVEL IN 100 YEARS, this following the winning of 5 minors in a row. All those minors are now aged between 22 and 28. In Offaly ex player Michael Duignan could not tolerate the same thing so put himself forward, got elected and now he seems to have turned things around and success is coming their way. Jack O’Connor has made a management career of slipping into jobs where there were good players coming on stream and slipping out when he thought success might not come easy. Sometimes he misread it and slipped out prematurely and handed success to others. But an egoist like him would look on that as making the “right mistake”. The whistle was not out of the referee’s mouth at the end of the Kerry vs Tyrone game in 2021 when Jack was leaving Kildare. An inept CB which included some interesting decision makers refused to extend the incumbent’s term and appointed Jack. The problem with Jack is he doesn’t know how to set up an attacking team, or doesn’t see the merit in the players available or is completely fearful. Look at what some forwards scored in big games a few years ago and what they are scoring now when they are at their peak. One way or the other, he is not playing his hand properly so we are not getting the best out of our players. Teams with lesser players are dominating us and beating us. The strength and conditioning debacle is also a disgrace. That’s why we are where we are. There is absolutely zero responsibility for the current mess on the players. They have always given 110% and always handled themselves with respect and dignity and there have been times when that cannot have been easy. I calculate that I spend over €2,000 a year supporting Kerry and that doesn’t include my family having to plan things around Kerry fixtures. If there is not a major change that shows an awareness of what is best for Kerry football I will be opting out next year. Tinkering around the edges, like adding a random person as a “new attacking coach”, will not suffice, but it is the type of band-aid the CB would try to get away with putting on the gaping wound. Great post - hard to disagree with anything you say. The current chairman will not jettison JO’C - Tally wants to stay on apparently. The stats are frightening when you look back at our championship details: We played SEVEN games - 5 of those were against Div 2 sides - we scored 5 goals in total with NO goals in 4 of those games. We had only one forward, ONE , David Clifford score a goal - he got two vs Meath. My belief is not that Jack doesn’t know how to set up an attacking unit, it’s that his conservatism & safe attitude focuses on defence & not losing. |
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Post by hurlingman on Jul 20, 2024 13:14:18 GMT
I agree completely with thehermit and greengold35. But I suppose I am a bit different in that I analyse everything on the spot and chart a path forward. The County Board is responsible at the highest level. The officers appear to think that if they keep things ticking over and everyone stays quiet and they get 3 or 4 years in a position they can move on to the Munster council and a few years later might even be in with a shout for GAA presidency. Meanwhile football is dying in front of their eyes in the Kingdom. Apart from the ’86 – ’97 period following 8 AI’s in 12 years, they are presiding over the PERIOD OF LEAST SUCCESS AT SENIOR LEVEL IN 100 YEARS, this following the winning of 5 minors in a row. All those minors are now aged between 22 and 28. In Offaly ex player Michael Duignan could not tolerate the same thing so put himself forward, got elected and now he seems to have turned things around and success is coming their way. Jack O’Connor has made a management career of slipping into jobs where there were good players coming on stream and slipping out when he thought success might not come easy. Sometimes he misread it and slipped out prematurely and handed success to others. But an egoist like him would look on that as making the “right mistake”. The whistle was not out of the referee’s mouth at the end of the Kerry vs Tyrone game in 2021 when Jack was leaving Kildare. An inept CB which included some interesting decision makers refused to extend the incumbent’s term and appointed Jack. The problem with Jack is he doesn’t know how to set up an attacking team, or doesn’t see the merit in the players available or is completely fearful. Look at what some forwards scored in big games a few years ago and what they are scoring now when they are at their peak. One way or the other, he is not playing his hand properly so we are not getting the best out of our players. Teams with lesser players are dominating us and beating us. The strength and conditioning debacle is also a disgrace. That’s why we are where we are. There is absolutely zero responsibility for the current mess on the players. They have always given 110% and always handled themselves with respect and dignity and there have been times when that cannot have been easy. I calculate that I spend over €2,000 a year supporting Kerry and that doesn’t include my family having to plan things around Kerry fixtures. If there is not a major change that shows an awareness of what is best for Kerry football I will be opting out next year. Tinkering around the edges, like adding a random person as a “new attacking coach”, will not suffice, but it is the type of band-aid the CB would try to get away with putting on the gaping wound. I've long said the CB are very much at fault for the state we find ourselves in. Not just in recent times but you can arrange for close to 20 years now. The appointments at U20/21 in that era are an example of it. Your point on JOC is also very true. Bar his first term he's just come in and taken the glory. While he's won four All-Irelands you could arrange he felt another two behind him. Its not too dissimilar to Davy Fitz. The fact that the CB are completely unaccountable for any calls they make and just pretend they never do anything wrong is not going to help things anytime soon. While I'm fully aware money is needed in recent times all the CB care about is how much money they can get from people and will ignore anything that there's no money in it for them. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 20, 2024 14:35:19 GMT
Far to much blame is being put on Jack O Connor.
Kerry could very easily be in a final next weekend.
The football this year was putrid at times infact bar the first half against an abject Monaghan and the first half against Armagh we never played a full 70.
But the whole season bar the league final and maybe the Ulster Final were poor.
Shane Ryan catches that ball and we are in a final.. Inches.
As for Jack only wanting to manage teams with potential like lads who doesn't want that ?
2021 Semi
2022 Final
2023 Final
2024 Semi
We could be going for 4 in a row all of those games were winnable.
It's been a tough week.
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 20, 2024 15:18:59 GMT
Far to much blame is being put on Jack O Connor. Kerry could very easily be in a final next weekend. The football this year was putrid at times infact bar the first half against an abject Monaghan and the first half against Armagh we never played a full 70. But the whole season bar the league final and maybe the Ulster Final were poor. Shane Ryan catches that ball and we are in a final.. Inches. As for Jack only wanting to manage teams with potential like lads who doesn't want that ? 2021 Semi 2022 Final 2023 Final 2024 Semi We could be going for 4 in a row all of those games were winnable. It's been a tough week. The exasperating point is that all those games were winnable !! PK was in charge in ‘21 & went in against Tyrone asleep - we were tactically naive & were beaten. We stumbled over the line in ‘22 - lucky to beat Dublin. In ‘23, you could argue we ended up with our weakest 15 on the pitch in the final minutes - Mike Breen @ midfield, Adrian Spillane @ wing forward , Micheál Burns on the other wing; we replaced Paul Geaney, who was playing well with Killian Spillane - we needed both on the pitch. Last weekend we butchered 2 goal chances, coughed up a soft goal & kicked 15 wides. The over riding take is that the manager has not got the best from this squad - in ‘22 neither Dara Moynihan nor Tony Brosnan featured after the Munster final - it’s criminal on Jack’s behalf that we didn’t have Cillian Burke nor a Dylan Geaney developed through the league to be starting on Sat last - I know Cillian was injured during the league but he showed vs Derry that he was ready - equally Seán O’Brien had to be in the reckoning. Our in game management was poor too - we were 4 up after our goal but continued to retreat & give up the kick out - surely we should have pushed up on their kick out & drive home our advantage? No, not Jack’s way. One final point - Jack said during the week that Graham O’Sullivan was raring to go - why did we leave it so late to introduce him? Morley was anonymous all game. I believe that Jack didn’t like change & reverts to the tried & trusted at the business end of the championship- Burke, Geaney & Seán O’Brien should have been more than ready for last weekend. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 20, 2024 15:22:38 GMT
The exasperating point is that all those games were winnable !! PK was in charge in ‘21 & went in against Tyrone asleep - we were tactically naive & were beaten. We stumbled over the line in ‘22 - lucky to beat Dublin. In ‘23, you could argue we ended up with our weakest 15 on the pitch in the final minutes - Mike Breen @ midfield, Adrian Spillane @ wing forward , Micheál Burns on the other wing; we replaced Paul Geaney, who was playing well with Killian Spillane - we needed both on the pitch. Last weekend we butchered 2 goal chances, coughed up a soft goal & kicked 15 wides. The over riding take is that the manager has not got the best from this squad - in ‘22 neither Dara Moynihan nor Tony Brosnan featured after the Munster final - it’s criminal on Jack’s behalf that we didn’t have Cillian Burke nor a Dylan Geaney developed through the league to be starting on Sat last - I know Cillian was injured during the league but he showed vs Derry that he was ready - equally Seán O’Brien had to be in the reckoning. Our in game management was poor too - we were 4 up after our goal but continued to retreat & give up the kick out - surely we should have pushed up on their kick out & drive home our advantage? No, not Jack’s way. One final point - Jack said during the week that Graham O’Sullivan was raring to go - why did we leave it so late to introduce him? Morley was anonymous all game. I believe that Jack didn’t like change & reverts to the tried & trusted at the business end of the championship- Burke, Geaney & Seán O’Brien should have been more than ready for last weekend. I absolutely agree that Jack's big failing is not giving more game time to the lads you named. Cannot disagree with that. Too much emphasis on league wins than letting those lads get a good run. |
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exiled
Senior Member
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Post by exiled on Jul 20, 2024 23:52:40 GMT
If my auntie had!.If Shane Ryan had nt dropped ball?If Jack Barry had nt thrown a loose leg at ball v Tyrone we would have won 21 and there would have been no Jack O Connor return and we might be going for 4 in a row under PK. If Hurson had nt given us the contraversial free v Galway which swung game our way (it was a free but very few refs would give it) maybe Galway would have won in 22. In 2009 final v Cork if Darran O Sullivans point was disallowed (it was a double hop) maybe Cork woild have eon cos that point broke Corks momentum. Maybe if ref implemented rules properly Mayo would have won 2016 and 2017 finals.We woild have won 82 and 2011.Then again Mikey Sheehyd goal in 78 might be disallowed. Lots of ifs and buts the facts are the winners won and losers lost and this year we lost.One can blame individual mistakes but they all stemmed from our stlye of play and the signs were ominous throughout the league.Nothing changed and if anything we went backwards which has been a trend throughout Jacks reign with both Kerry and Kildare. Never a positive post. What's new. I was there in 82 and never blamed the ref. It was a slight touch. Probably blamed Jacko more for retreating to defence. As far Mayo v Dublin all you have to do is re.-watch to decide which side got the benefit from the ref. I know that we lost this year because of our play. But Dublin won by point no matter what..Why. watch the games and reply. |
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exiled
Senior Member
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Post by exiled on Jul 20, 2024 23:54:14 GMT
If my auntie had!.If Shane Ryan had nt dropped ball?If Jack Barry had nt thrown a loose leg at ball v Tyrone we would have won 21 and there would have been no Jack O Connor return and we might be going for 4 in a row under PK. If Hurson had nt given us the contraversial free v Galway which swung game our way (it was a free but very few refs would give it) maybe Galway would have won in 22. In 2009 final v Cork if Darran O Sullivans point was disallowed (it was a double hop) maybe Cork woild have eon cos that point broke Corks momentum. Maybe if ref implemented rules properly Mayo would have won 2016 and 2017 finals.We woild have won 82 and 2011.Then again Mikey Sheehyd goal in 78 might be disallowed. Lots of ifs and buts the facts are the winners won and losers lost and this year we lost.One can blame individual mistakes but they all stemmed from our stlye of play and the signs were ominous throughout the league.Nothing changed and if anything we went backwards which has been a trend throughout Jacks reign with both Kerry and Kildare. Never a positive post. What's new. I was there in 82 and never blamed the ref. It was a slight touch. Probably blamed Jacko more for retreating to defence. As far Mayo v Dublin all you have to do is re.-watch to decide which side got the benefit from the ref. I know that we lost this year because of our play. But Dublin won by point no matter what..Why. watch the games and reply. This post should have been divided |
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Post by Ballydonoghoor on Jul 22, 2024 11:24:39 GMT
In 2024 we played with fear and increasingly so as the year progressed, contrast that with how Donaghy led his troops. It is the root of our issues that need attention.
From what i hear our U20s are also indoctrinated and right from Nov, to play to a formula. While of course tactics and indeed strategy are powerful, there is dire consequences when they are misused - they backfire, friendly fire, etc!
Rot spreads too and fellas need to be rehabilitated in the wild to rediscover their natural talent - leadership is required here!
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 22, 2024 15:45:42 GMT
Jack won two minor titles with a top notch group of players and broke a lengthy famine at that grade - key to that success was his formula which he has carried through to his third stint in charge of the seniors. He instilled a system of play with the minors, picking lads that worked his system and omitting players based on his perceived needs for the system.
His system brought much craved success and catapulted him back into contention for the big job. Some tight losses have brought more scrutiny of his system and style and if those tight games had gone our way he would be on a pedestal.
Personally I dislike the system but I have never been on the side line, giving up countless evenings in rain, hail and occasional sunshine coaching and agonising over systems of play so I will bow to those with superior knowledge - maybe there is a better way but for now I will simply say thanks for keeping us competitive and hopefully we find the missing elements to win more titles.
My final comment is that our losses point to a deficiency in the system and simply coming back in 2025 and doing the same is not an option and our county board owes it to the fanbase to have an adult conversation with management in this regard.
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Post by cliffy on Jul 22, 2024 19:23:11 GMT
New management needs to come in next year. Jack has given great service to Kerry and has delivered Sam in 2004, 2006, 2009 and 2022. However, the game has moved on. As an earlier poster said maybe Eamon Fitz and Tomas or if possible Eamon Fitz, Tomas and Donaghy? Keep Tomas in charge of U20s still though for continuity.
In terms of personnel, I would say changes are needed in the starting 15 and in panel. Out of starting 15 v Armagh only Ryan, Murphy, Foley, Tom Sull, Begley, White, Diarmuid, Seanie, Paudie and David could you say are certainties for next year. You’d have to add Graham Sulllivan to that list too. New players needed. Cillian Burke and Dylan Geaney should have got more game time this year, Mike Breen needs to be looked at centre back, Mark O Shea from Crokes in the middle of the field is best midfielder in county on form, Luke Crowley another one that needs to be looked at. The squad has gone very stale over last few years and many names must feel like they are safe. Fresh blood needed in management and players.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 22, 2024 19:59:01 GMT
New management needs to come in next year. Jack has given great service to Kerry and has delivered Sam in 2004, 2006, 2009 and 2022. However, the game has moved on. As an earlier poster said maybe Eamon Fitz and Tomas or if possible Eamon Fitz, Tomas and Donaghy? Keep Tomas in charge of U20s still though for continuity. In terms of personnel, I would say changes are needed in the starting 15 and in panel. Out of starting 15 v Armagh only Ryan, Murphy, Foley, Tom Sull, Begley, White, Diarmuid, Seanie, Paudie and David could you say are certainties for next year. You’d have to add Graham Sulllivan to that list too. New players needed. Cillian Burke and Dylan Geaney should have got more game time this year, Mike Breen needs to be looked at centre back, Mark O Shea from Crokes in the middle of the field is best midfielder in county on form, Luke Crowley another one that needs to be looked at. The squad has gone very stale over last few years and many names must feel like they are safe. Fresh blood needed in management and players. I'd keep on Michael Quirke also. |
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exiled
Senior Member
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Post by exiled on Jul 23, 2024 0:06:09 GMT
In 2024 we played with fear and increasingly so as the year progressed, contrast that with how Donaghy led his troops. It is the root of our issues that need attention. From what i hear our U20s are also indoctrinated and right from Nov, to play to a formula. While of course tactics and indeed strategy are powerful, there is dire consequences when they are misused - they backfire, friendly fire, etc! Rot spreads too and fellas need to be rehabilitated in the wild to rediscover their natural talent - leadership is required here! As regards u20,s this year I think they played on the front foot all year. Very little back or sideways. We were not hopeful for them this year and still got within a point of a far superior team. Give credit where it's due. |
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Post by dc84 on Jul 23, 2024 9:08:02 GMT
In 2024 we played with fear and increasingly so as the year progressed, contrast that with how Donaghy led his troops. It is the root of our issues that need attention. From what i hear our U20s are also indoctrinated and right from Nov, to play to a formula. While of course tactics and indeed strategy are powerful, there is dire consequences when they are misused - they backfire, friendly fire, etc! Rot spreads too and fellas need to be rehabilitated in the wild to rediscover their natural talent - leadership is required here! As regards u20,s this year I think they played on the front foot all year. Very little back or sideways. We were not hopeful for them this year and still got within a point of a far superior team. Give credit where it's due. I thought the same the 20s played a decent brand I thought and got as close as they could to potential |
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 23, 2024 9:20:35 GMT
A bit of a chicken and egg question for those involved in coaching - Is it the team that brings every player back that invites the opposition to attack en mass or is it the opposition attacking en mass that causes a massed defence?
What would happen if a team kept three forwards in forward positions at all times - would this require defenders to stay home to cover turnovers and quick breaks.
It also strikes me that hurling allows much more physical contact than football - jersey pulls and dangerous play are the main fouls called in hurling but a man who gets caught in possession is fair game. In football minor contact is frequently called which makes the boring sh!t so easy to happen. Allow more contact which increases the risk of turnover and teams may be less inclined to send everyone forward.
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Post by tralee58 on Jul 23, 2024 15:33:50 GMT
The Irish Mirror article by Colm Boyle
‘ For life of me I can't understand why David Clifford is burning energy going backwards’ says the Kerry identity is lost.
He said ‘ But, for as much as Armagh like to try and be structured and controlled, they are still at their absolute best when they play with instinct, courage and emotion’
Before the match I watched Ireland Rugby beat South Africa away in an incredible match by using instinct courage emotion maximally.
Tactics strategy structure control plays a part for sure but in my humble opinion the likes of Clifford brothers and Seanie thrive on the aforementioned. They seemed stifled. Taking nothing away from
a great Armagh performance but you can’t help thinking Kerry be looking forward to a final if they had utilised the above.
Can’t help thinking Kieran Donaghy instilled some of that.
Anyway months to reflect now. A positive is Kerry ladies be good to hear a few comments from ladies on here. Ciarrai Abu
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Post by Kingdomson on Jul 23, 2024 23:11:02 GMT
The coulda, woulda, shoulda, fertilizer for why Kerry have not won more All Ireland’s has to stop, and you are NOT supporting Kerry football by doing so. Only real losers make excuses. We need a more honest culture in Kerry, like what happened Dublin post 2009. Simply as, Kerry were not good enough in 2024. You can’t coach size, and the skill set of our players in total was limited which dictated tactics - too many Kerry players were clearly not able to use both legs or hands, not able to field overhead, and not enough players were strong enough to break tackles, so you run it! There was a reason we ran the ball in 2021 against Tyrone (under Peter Keane) and the same reason was there in 2024 against Armagh (Jack has learnt what Peter Keane already knew – you cut your cloth to suit your measure). You can lie to yourself, and you can lie on these boards but it’s still a lie.
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Post by Ballydonoghoor on Jul 24, 2024 0:35:20 GMT
As regards u20,s this year I think they played on the front foot all year. Very little back or sideways. We were not hopeful for them this year and still got within a point of a far superior team. Give credit where it's due. I thought the same the 20s played a decent brand I thought and got as close as they could to potential Lazy on my part there but everyone has it that there a consistent backroom policy that dictates how we play. PG and DC were there to land high ball into but that didn't happen so PG was on an inning to nothing while DC's movements were predictable so favouring his tormentors as he was more a sitting duck. |
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