Project 2025

[greengold35]

Jul 15, 2024 4:51:03 GMT Premier said:

Jul 14, 2024 23:42:23 GMT edgeofthesquare said:

I would add Eddie Healy and Tomas Kennedy from the u20s. Mark O’Shea must be closer to 30 than 20 at this stage but I agree with the other 4 you mention.

Mark O’Shea was in training this year. He’s about 27 I believe. I also think Cillian Trant was in there, not 100% on that though.
Crowley, Lynch, Keating, Healy would be ones to look at from the 20s. Honestly not much else springing to mind after that, hopefully club and county championships show us a bit more

Tomás Kennedy is a great prospect but still has 2 years left @ U20 level - won’t turn 18 until later this year!!

[hurlingman]

Jul 15, 2024 15:59:48 GMT brucewayne said:

Jul 15, 2024 1:50:47 GMT ciarraimick said:

And two years in a row it was teams that reach the league final while many of us think the league final damages prospects.

What are you talking about?

Dublin and Armagh were both in the Div 2 league final this year and last.

[kerryblueboy]

One thing for certain under pat the bag is that Jack will be going nowhere and there will be no changes he is bull stubborn and not the kind of man to admit he got it wrong just watch his after match interview he will be here for another year and I would bet 13/14 of Saturday team start next season championship

[The16thMan]

Jul 15, 2024 16:44:36 GMT kerryblueboy said:

One thing for certain under pat the bag is that Jack will be going nowhere and there will be no changes he is bull stubborn and not the kind of man to admit he got it wrong just watch his after match interview he will be here for another year and I would bet 13/14 of Saturday team start next season championship

Perhaps, but what a lot of journalists have been saying is that Paddy Tally was already very unlikely to commit to 2025. If Jack had any sense he'd replace Tally with an attacking coach for 2025

[taggert]

I doubt very much there is a single player in the county from 18 years or older - of the standard - that is unknown to the setup.
There is a squad of 28 and several others have spent time inside. It is taken so serious that Armin Heinrich at # 28 was not allowed play for Austin Stacks in their recent u21 county championship winning final.

Much as we'd all love there to be 3 or 4 unknown gems waiting in the wings to step in, the reality is, its a known quantity to Jack and co. The big thing to note is the quality issue bites at the semi and final stage not against your Meaths and Monaghans - no disrespect intended. What you are then essentially asking is finding players who are difference makers/hold their own at the highest level.

Paul Geaney, passed his peak some years back, but starts because NOBODY has put up their hand consistently and credibly to take his shirt. Some players, around these parts, get better the less they play but then when thrown in find the air is very thin and rarified - Mike Breen in 21 v Tyrone and 24 v Armagh spring to mind. No issue with him as a footballer but just saying if players were ready and undroppable, they'd be playing.

[brucewayne]

Jul 15, 2024 16:43:11 GMT hurlingman said:

Jul 15, 2024 15:59:48 GMT brucewayne said:

What are you talking about?

Dublin and Armagh were both in the Div 2 league final this year and last.

And what relevance has that to what I was saying?

[dc84]

The style of play has to change in my view key to that is good kickpassers in defence and mf I believe we have that personally.
The key then as it always has been is lads in hf line particularly 10 and 12 that make the runs to collect the ball early and have the skills to provide the bullets for the inside men think galvin, Sean o sullivan etc.
The midfield and half forward line needs a rethink we rarely kick it long because we don't trust the options we have outside.

For me I think the defence is OK Graham back fit and more game time for breen would bolster that even further.
Midfield I don't know I like both the lads but they aren't the best in the air. If jack Barry is there next year it will at least give us more options.
Personally I think we should go with Burke, seanie and o connor (probably joe) half forward line it would give us 5 longer kickout options ie 2 mfs and a taller hf line.
I'd be in favour of a 2 man inside line with paudie dropping out to hf line allowing one of the halforwards to act as a 3rd mf. You would imagine geaney will hang up the boots so that inside man is crucial
Options there are of course brosnan , d.geaney and Spillane unless we can find someone else. Another threat inside who is mobile and a ballwinner would be ideal not sure we have that... I'd also rotate seanie paudi and whomever is at 15 to confuse opposition and give seanie and paudi a break those boys wear themselves out over the course of a game but are amongst our best scorers also.
Getting the best out of David is a tough one especially when we move up the pitch so slowly if we can actually have an attacking platform from our own kickouts then we will create the space for him but we have to be braver

[greengold35]

Jul 15, 2024 17:19:46 GMT taggert said:

I doubt very much there is a single player in the county from 18 years or older - of the standard - that is unknown to the setup.
There is a squad of 28 and several others have spent time inside. It is taken so serious that Armin Heinrich at # 28 was not allowed play for Austin Stacks in their recent u21 county championship winning final.

Much as we'd all love there to be 3 or 4 unknown gems waiting in the wings to step in, the reality is, its a known quantity to Jack and co. The big thing to note is the quality issue bites at the semi and final stage not against your Meaths and Monaghans - no disrespect intended. What you are then essentially asking is finding players who are difference makers/hold their own at the highest level.

Paul Geaney, passed his peak some years back, but starts because NOBODY has put up their hand consistently and credibly to take his shirt. Some players, around these parts, get better the less they play but then when thrown in find the air is very thin and rarified - Mike Breen in 21 v Tyrone and 24 v Armagh spring to mind. No issue with him as a footballer but just saying if players were ready and undroppable, they'd be playing.

I agree on the fact that there are no unknowns out there but Jack’s conservatism kept both Cillian Burke & Dylan Geaney on the bench - both would have been better options than our starting wing forwards.

[taggert]

Jul 15, 2024 18:16:41 GMT greengold35 said:

Jul 15, 2024 17:19:46 GMT taggert said:

I doubt very much there is a single player in the county from 18 years or older - of the standard - that is unknown to the setup.
There is a squad of 28 and several others have spent time inside. It is taken so serious that Armin Heinrich at # 28 was not allowed play for Austin Stacks in their recent u21 county championship winning final.

Much as we'd all love there to be 3 or 4 unknown gems waiting in the wings to step in, the reality is, its a known quantity to Jack and co. The big thing to note is the quality issue bites at the semi and final stage not against your Meaths and Monaghans - no disrespect intended. What you are then essentially asking is finding players who are difference makers/hold their own at the highest level.

Paul Geaney, passed his peak some years back, but starts because NOBODY has put up their hand consistently and credibly to take his shirt. Some players, around these parts, get better the less they play but then when thrown in find the air is very thin and rarified - Mike Breen in 21 v Tyrone and 24 v Armagh spring to mind. No issue with him as a footballer but just saying if players were ready and undroppable, they'd be playing.

I agree on the fact that there are no unknowns out there but Jack’s conservatism kept both Cillian Burke & Dylan Geaney on the bench - both would have been better options than our starting wing forwards.

Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.
My take on it - without hindsight - is as follows:
- Burke has yet to set any game alight when starting but excelled when introduced later in the game versus Derry. While the "sample size" is obviously very small, I can see why thry opted for the same. I would have introd7ced him at HT as Dara was struggling.
- Tony scored two class points against Derry and had built up a decent rapport with players on that flank. Again, I csn see why he started.

In fairness to you, I can see how Burke - following displays against Derry and Armagh should be nailed on to start at wing forward in 2025.
On Geaney, he may end up displacing his namesake next year.

[powerhurl]

Kerry will win all Irelands again in near future but the days of any sort of domination are probably well gone because of many rural clubs combining at underage it is all ready having an impact on senior football in Kerry

[tonydorigo]

I think the main take away from Saturday is that there has to be a change in system of play. This was a Kerry team playing with a fear of losing rather than striking fear into the opposition. We move the ball too slowly, have no discernible plan for the forwards and are still easily cut apart at the back at times.

Compare our forward play with other counties and it is striking how they do their best to put their players in the best position to score through diagonal runs (Galway), looped runs/screens (Derry) and backdoor cuts (Dublin etc). We seem to just give the ball to a player at times and expect miracles. Even when Clifford was not in the game the last day, why not bring him out onto the 40 to get the ball in his hands and use his gravity to create space for other forwards? Why don't we have a better idea of how to break down a defence rather than just relentlessly handpassing around it?

Also our pace with the ball has gotten worse since the all ireland final last year. I thought maybe that there would be a pick up in pace after the final but instead we have gone the other direction.

Disappointing thing about Saturday was that we did not lose playing football that suits us and we didn't try to impose our plan on another team. Instead we let their approach dictate ours rather than us solving the puzzle they presented in terms of set up.

If we can keep some of these young players from going to AFL (Burke and Keating), get Monahan back (long shot, not even mentioning Mark O'Connor!!), bring in Crowley, Healy, Lynch and O'Callaghan from 20s and get the likes of Okunbar back then we have the makings of a solid squad. Just need to change the approach and start being more forceful in our football.

[thehermit]

Bad news just keeps on coming:

'Geelong eyeing Milltown-Castlemaine starlet while other AFL clubs are also interested in a pair of Kerry's crop of Under 20s'

www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41437423.html

[horsebox77]

Christ, if things couldn't look more bleak

www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41437423.html

[kerryblueboy]

If we lose him I will despair really the only bright spot from the year

[dc84]

Afffs Jesus that's rough he would be the perfect player for it though

[Lolly Valance]

Best of luck to Cillian Burke if he does indeed sign a contract. Can’t begrudge a young man trying to better his lot in life and set himself up for the future if all goes well. It’s going to be tough for any person to turn down the chance to be a professional athlete in a sun-soaked climate. I know its not something that he grew up dreaming of but, any person that is serious about their sport would relish the chance to be a pro.

I don’t think it makes a blind bit of difference who the selectors with Jack are. He calls the shots at the end of the day. For all we know Quirke and Murphy could be just as exasperated at the lack of urgency going forward in our play. I know it was only Laois etc but, when Quirke was in charge the played some nice football. He started off defensively in the O’Byrne cup etc but as the first year went on added kicking to their game. The usual happened with Laois then with lack of buy in from the county board. I think the tin hat was put on it when Colm Parkinsons podcast played unedited version of his call with Eddie Brennan who was the hurling manager in Laois at the time. Brennan slated the county board and called them inept etc but, he also said Quirke was saying the same thing.

I’m sure if he was allowed he could influence the team tactics with set plays etc but, I think himself and Murphy don’t get the chance. Didn’t Donaghy himself write in his book that he suggested practicing set plays if Kerry had a sideline with 30 seconds left and were down by a point and Jack told him to ‘f**k off’. I think we need to make better use of the players we have rather than any wholesale changes.

One thing that always puzzles me about Kerry. In the modern game, half backs and half forwards are interchangeable. We often see players from other counties switching between the lines. With the likes of Graham, Tom, Gavin White could we not try them in the HF line. I know Gavin was tried in 2019 under PK but, I don’t think there was much structure to it apart from playing an extra defender.

In defence next year you could have, Tom Sullivan, Graham, Jason Foley, O’Beaghlaoich, Breen, Paul Murphy, Dylan Casey, Sean O’Brien, Morley, Gavin White. If Casey or O’Brien stake a claim for a starting berth in the backs it makes sense to try and get as many of our best players on the pitch.

[onlykerry]

It would seem that Jack is in the driving seat with regard to being in charge for 2025 and so be it.

Those expecting him to change should look at his form - he is resolute in how things operate and very much in control. Those thinking he should bring a Donaghy type with new ideas or even freshen it up with new selectors are probably barking up the wrong tree, there is little evidence of Jack taking on ideas in this manner and if anything he has become more stubborn as he has aged.

The most we can expect from him is a renewed focus on fitness but I would be amazed if he altered his style of play in any significant way.

[Annascaultilidie]

I still think it is possible that the squad of players are not as individually good as we are assume they are.

It doesn't mean Kerry aren't top four, won't be favourites at some point next year, or won't win it... I just think the reason Kerry have been falling short might be the same reason Mayo did.

[horsebox77]

Oh god, so where do we go from here, I was conversing with a fellow forum poster in the aftermath and I commented that this was not just another one gone, but more so another one given away… I referred to 2011, 15, 19 and 23, games that we had at various stages and let slip, the extra time fall off to Tyrone in 21 and Armagh now as well as the year outs that were 20 and 18.

But there is no point is scrutinising over the past, the key here is learn, evolve and continually refresh the squad and the voice or conductor.

At the outset, I’m not calling for anyone’s head, either side of the white line. Anyone player or coach involved at any level knows the time effort and relative lack of return, so in that regard, I commend the squad, backroom team and the officers at the table that facilitate from their side.

However, in reality, I do feel that there is time for a change, I am a fan of Jack and always have been, he has that ruthless and blinkered streak about him that is required, but sometimes this is not enough and it is only with a few tweaks that the final places fall into place. It was commented that Jack won an all ireland with Peter Keane’s team, with the one addition of a defensive structure.. a thought provoking comment and one that has aspects of merit – regardless it was Jack that installed that system.

Looking at the current squad levels, the reality is we have only been the width of a post or a one kick score from being beaten in the last five or so years, we are not far from the mark, so again only slight tweaks are needed.

From a squad point of view, I don’t think there is any club player, that has not been given their fair shot, most will quote Dan O’Donoghue, no disrespect to the lad, but he had three or four good league games, similar to Okunbor, he is more aura than player in my eyes, billed as the professional returning to amateur but more unfortunately of glass. One would rightly assume that Stephen O’Brien, Paul Geaney and Paul Murphy have all played their last game for us, this trio own us nothing and can leave head held high. Others like Morley and Adrain may consider.

We have to address key positions, the forty, centre back and midfield.. these three pivotal positions need solidifying.

I also think the county board have to be more proactive to stem the Oz wave, only this morning Bourke has been added to the list that may include Keating, Kennedy and Kirby, Boyle too is testing the waters by all accounts.

There are players coming through from minor and more so U20, these players have to be nurtured and allowed time to bed in.

Now the crux, Jack, does he stay or go. Personally, I think he will be at the helm, there is a stubbornness about him. in saying that, I genuinely believe a change would be more beneficial and, in that regard, a clean sweep may be the best solution. I am a fan of Quirke; I know he is not everyone’s cup of team. But anyone who knows the man, listened to his courses or seen any tactic sessions knows he is astute.

The last time the high-profile ticket of Stephen Stack, with Mickey Ned, Buckley, Seamus and Dara O’Cinneide didn’t get the traction I thought it would, others are spouting names like Seamus, Tomás, Eamon as some form of tactics along with a more astute mid game reader, others are making names like Sean Bán, Aidan O’Shea, Declan. The lady’s duo of Dara Long and Declan Quill have done their CV’s no harm, as has Mark Fitzgerald and Donaghy with other counties.

Personally, as much as a clean sweep, is needed, often the step up from selector to manager within is the smoother transition. If I had the wand, and the position was vacant, I would love a combo of Mike Quirke, with him, Eamon, Sean Bán and Declan. Coaching team of Aidan O’Shea and Joe O’Connor. One aspect is we have issues between the ears, one of the main drivers of Limerick was Caroline Currid. It is no surprise the matches or years she was out, were the years they fell. Griffin is good, and from Clare is relatively local… It’s no surprise that Donaghy is succeeding in Armagh, before that in Galway, he may be the ideal addition in the background to eradicate some failings.

Either way, the above is my food for thought. If there is to be a change of the guard, it should be soon to allow the new occupant to view the local championship with a blank page.

[kerryexile]

"Dark Night of the Soul" time. Some great posts there and some from the other end of the scale too. The opinion I've been putting forward for years is that the players need to be able to express themselves. Everything we have seen from the players has been under the burden of fear and defensiveness. For that reason in is unfair to comment on individuals.

If a new manager took over, in the first match he should tell the players "Go out and play what ever way you like. Talk to the other players ask them what way they want the ball, tell them the way you want it. Switch as you want. Make decisions on the hoof. Enjoy yourselves". I would give anything to be at that game.

It's cathartic to even think about it.

[royalkerryfan]

Lads Jack is staying for 2025.

He has one more year and he won't want to go out like that on Saturday.

I think some big decisions are needed and none more so than getting David Clifford back on form.

For me in retrospect as Paul Brennan said this morning bringing the Clifford's to Monaghan was akin to the Glen lads traveling to Tralee.

Now maybe it wasn't that stark but it was the wrong decision.

If I was Jack I'd get giving David,Seanie,Paidi the full league off.

I'd be giving them a voucher for a nice holiday and telling them they won't be required in Currans until well into spring.

If we get relegated or just about survive so be it, it did Dublin,Armagh, Donegal and Galway no harm.

[edgeofthesquare]

Jul 16, 2024 16:36:10 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Lads Jack is staying for 2025.

He has one more year and he won't want to go out like that on Saturday.

I think some big decisions are needed and none more so than getting David Clifford back on form.

For me in retrospect as Paul Brennan said this morning bringing the Clifford's to Monaghan was akin to the Glen lads traveling to Tralee.

Now maybe it wasn't that stark but it was the wrong decision.

If I was Jack I'd get giving David,Seanie,Paidi the full league off.

I'd be giving them a voucher for a nice holiday and telling them they won't be required in Currans until well into spring.

If we get relegated or just about survive so be it, it did Dublin,Armagh, Donegal and Galway no harm.

The only reason he’s staying on is self-interest. The team is going backwards under him.

[edgeofthesquare]

The Cillian Burke news is despairing. Where do we go from here when every player we produce with elite athleticism is going to be snatched. Our would be middle 8 for the next decade is going to potentially be decimated by the Aussies; Cillian Burke, Rob Monahan, Ben Murphy, Tomas Kennedy and Charlie Keating.

[The16thMan]

Jul 16, 2024 10:45:41 GMT thehermit said:

Bad news just keeps on coming:

'Geelong eyeing Milltown-Castlemaine starlet while other AFL clubs are also interested in a pair of Kerry's crop of Under 20s'

www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41437423.html

Looks like this story might have been slightly wide of the mark. It does look as if he'll be travelling to Australia for the academic year (September- May) but returning. Downside is he won't see any league action but that is still better than him signing for the AFL if he makes it back to play some part in the Championship.

m.independent.ie/regionals/kerry/sport/gaa/afl-move-not-on-the-cards-for-kerry-star-cillian-burke/a1075983392.html

[kerrymenontour]

Decided to wait a couple of days after the game to share my thoughts, and since I doubt it’s our end of the road I’ll give my thoughts on the season. Armagh simply wanted it more in extra time the last day, we looked exhausted. I’ve only missed three games throughout league and championship this season, and it never felt like our season was up and motoring. A serious championship restructuring needs to be done. Dublin and Kerry came into Croker completely uncooked and untested. Poor games and attendances throughout the summer reflected that. Well done to Armagh thought, was on Hill 16 last day met a few from Lurgan lovely GAA people.

[john4]

Jul 16, 2024 16:36:10 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Lads Jack is staying for 2025.

He has one more year and he won't want to go out like that on Saturday.

I think some big decisions are needed and none more so than getting David Clifford back on form.

For me in retrospect as Paul Brennan said this morning bringing the Clifford's to Monaghan was akin to the Glen lads traveling to Tralee.

Now maybe it wasn't that stark but it was the wrong decision.

If I was Jack I'd get giving David,Seanie,Paidi the full league off.

I'd be giving them a voucher for a nice holiday and telling them they won't be required in Currans until well into spring.

If we get relegated or just about survive so be it, it did Dublin,Armagh, Donegal and Galway no harm.

100% for a complete league break for those lads,

Sean and David have been playing senior IC with Kerry with the whole country talking about them and analysing their every kick of a ball since they were 18/19 year old lads.

If it was me, I could do with a bit of headspace!

[mainevalley]

Jul 16, 2024 16:40:31 GMT edgeofthesquare said:

Jul 16, 2024 16:36:10 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Lads Jack is staying for 2025.

He has one more year and he won't want to go out like that on Saturday.

I think some big decisions are needed and none more so than getting David Clifford back on form.

For me in retrospect as Paul Brennan said this morning bringing the Clifford's to Monaghan was akin to the Glen lads traveling to Tralee.

Now maybe it wasn't that stark but it was the wrong decision.

If I was Jack I'd get giving David,Seanie,Paidi the full league off.

I'd be giving them a voucher for a nice holiday and telling them they won't be required in Currans until well into spring.

If we get relegated or just about survive so be it, it did Dublin,Armagh, Donegal and Galway no harm.

The only reason he’s staying on is self-interest. The team is going backwards under him.

Would tend to agree with you sure he has no impact on the tactics, leaves quirke and Lally work out that and jumps on the cold tails

[mainevalley]

Jul 16, 2024 16:36:10 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Lads Jack is staying for 2025.

He has one more year and he won't want to go out like that on Saturday.

I think some big decisions are needed and none more so than getting David Clifford back on form.

For me in retrospect as Paul Brennan said this morning bringing the Clifford's to Monaghan was akin to the Glen lads traveling to Tralee.

Now maybe it wasn't that stark but it was the wrong decision.

If I was Jack I'd get giving David,Seanie,Paidi the full league off.

I'd be giving them a voucher for a nice holiday and telling them they won't be required in Currans until well into spring.

If we get relegated or just about survive so be it, it did Dublin,Armagh, Donegal and Galway no harm.

Unfortunately the Clifford's will be playing with fossa and east Kerry until at least November depending on how fossa get on in the intermediate and O Donoghue cup. Could be Jan if Fossa were to win intermediate. Then they can rest until spring. They are competitors and will want to play with fossa. It's their bread and butter.

[royalkerryfan]

Jul 16, 2024 19:13:36 GMT mainevalley said:

Jul 16, 2024 16:36:10 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Lads Jack is staying for 2025.

He has one more year and he won't want to go out like that on Saturday.

I think some big decisions are needed and none more so than getting David Clifford back on form.

For me in retrospect as Paul Brennan said this morning bringing the Clifford's to Monaghan was akin to the Glen lads traveling to Tralee.

Now maybe it wasn't that stark but it was the wrong decision.

If I was Jack I'd get giving David,Seanie,Paidi the full league off.

I'd be giving them a voucher for a nice holiday and telling them they won't be required in Currans until well into spring.

If we get relegated or just about survive so be it, it did Dublin,Armagh, Donegal and Galway no harm.

Unfortunately the Clifford's will be playing with fossa and east Kerry until at least November depending on how fossa get on in the intermediate and O Donoghue cup. Could be Jan if Fossa were to win intermediate. Then they can rest until spring. They are competitors and will want to play with fossa. It's their bread and butter.

Fossa absolutely,

East Kerry no.

Sorry but big decisions need to be made here.

[royalkerryfan]

Jul 16, 2024 16:50:19 GMT The16thMan said:

Jul 16, 2024 10:45:41 GMT thehermit said:

Bad news just keeps on coming:

'Geelong eyeing Milltown-Castlemaine starlet while other AFL clubs are also interested in a pair of Kerry's crop of Under 20s'

www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41437423.html

Looks like this story might have been slightly wide of the mark. It does look as if he'll be travelling to Australia for the academic year (September- May) but returning. Downside is he won't see any league action but that is still better than him signing for the AFL if he makes it back to play some part in the Championship.

m.independent.ie/regionals/kerry/sport/gaa/afl-move-not-on-the-cards-for-kerry-star-cillian-burke/a1075983392.html

Conflicting information as Mortimer Murphy who said this morning he was going, them said he wasn't has just tweeted to say he is infact going.

Official comment needed now.