Project 2025

[thepope]

Another year done and time to look forward.

What's the plan going forward?

Looks like Jack intends to stay on so what needs to improve?

Goalkeeper dilemma, Shane Ryan and Shane Murphy both have their qualities and their flaws. Is it time for a change here?

Defence is still an area we're relatively strong. I'd like to see Mike Breen getting more starts in the league next year.

Midfield, probably needs a reset here. If Jack Barry returns could we pair him with Cillian Burke? Diarmaid to go to wing forward and Joe as impact sub. Are there better midfield options out there?

Forwards has major room for improvement. Firstly, and many have called for this, it's time for a forwards coach. What exactly are we doing when we attack? Armagh obviously wanted to open the flanks at times yesterday and moved everyone to one side of the D, or they cleared the D if wanting to go centrally. We spend ages on the ball, clutter up the D and ended up with inexperienced shooters taking on points yesterday. A lot of room for improvement here.

Personnel in the forwards needs to be looked at as well. Playing corner forwards as wing forwards isn't working. We also have a very small half forward line which can cause issues on long kickouts. I think Geaney is probably done now?

I would rather not see both Cliffords and Seanie play again til next April. They look like they need a rest and give time for persistent knocks to heal. We brought the 2 Cliffords back too early again this year.

Our team seems to have a psychological issue with scoring goals and pushing on when in the lead. I think a qualified sports psychologist could be called in as these issues are becoming an identity of the team. Tony Griffin works with the team and Clifford singled him out for praise when collecting one of his FOTY awards but have we developed repeating issues as a team?

Fitness under McGahan does not seem to be working. Players cramping before FT and in extra time. Similar to the Cork game in 2020 (left them hanging around and then conceded the killer, late goal), Tyrone covid-semi, late in the defeat of Dublin, 2022, we barely held off a stronger finish from Dublin and again yesterday.

Also, issues like Clifford following his man back to our goals has returned. I thought he was to pass the player off and not come back over halfway? He was gassed late on as a result. Another point on fringe players getting game time in the league. Dylan Casey ended up on Rian O'Neill in ET yesterday, I'd like to see the likes of Dylan get more league time to prepare for this kind of task in the championship.

Plenty to ponder. Thoughts?

[The16thMan]

I think we have to go back to the drawing board, whether we do or not is another question. Kerry have never been good at sitting on a lead, which is what you need to be when you depend on defensive football. Kerrys last 3 games in extra time have all seen us beaten, Cork 2020, Tyrone 2021 & Armagh 2024. Is it a case of fitness or is it mentally that we can't get over the line in these longer games.

In terms of a squad, hopefully a few different clubs/divisions can put their hands up in this years County Championship as this will lead to different players being looked at in next years league. It would have been harder for Burke to get game time this year if Mid Kerry didn't reach the final last year and Milltown win the Intermediate Championship. Hopefully we can have another Burke put their hand up in the winter. Also we need to have a look at U21 Stacks players and some of the Kerry U20s from this year and ask ourselves is there any of these lads capable of making the step up for 2025.

Finally, improving our attack has to be priority for 2025. We went multiple games without scoring goals in 2024 and found it hard to put up 20+ points in some games also which is normally a given with Kerry when they have their best teams out. We have to be quicker at getting the ball from our defensive 3rd to our attacking 3rd. Whether that comes from a change in personnel or tactic or both it remains to be seen.

[Annascaultilidie]

Jul 14, 2024 12:41:17 GMT The16thMan said:

I think we have to go back to the drawing board, whether we do or not is another question. Kerry have never been good at sitting on a lead, which is what you need to be when you depend on defensive football. Kerrys last 3 games in extra time have all seen us beaten, Cork 2020, Tyrone 2021 & Armagh 2024. Is it a case of fitness or is it mentally that we can't get over the line in these longer games.

In terms of a squad, hopefully a few different clubs/divisions can put their hands up in this years County Championship as this will lead to different players being looked at in next years league. It would have been harder for Burke to get game time this year if Mid Kerry didn't reach the final last year and Milltown win the Intermediate Championship. Hopefully we can have another Burke put their hand up in the winter. Also we need to have a look at U21 Stacks players and some of the Kerry U20s from this year and ask ourselves is there any of these lads capable of making the step up for 2025.

Finally, improving our attack has to be priority for 2025. We went multiple games without scoring goals in 2024 and found it hard to put up 20+ points in some games also which is normally a given with Kerry when they have their best teams out. We have to be quicker at getting the ball from our defensive 3rd to our attacking 3rd. Whether that comes from a change in personnel or tactic or both it remains to be seen.

Re: your first paragraph. I always thought the Kerry lore gives those wearing the jersey a confidence that they will beat all but the very very best teams (e.g. Dublin of last years).

I think when this then doesn't happen a shock and doubt creeps in and players that felt ten foot tall an hour earlier suddenly feel like they were punched in the face.

In another sport I think this happened to the NZ rugby teams a lot between 1987 and 2011.

[greengold35]

I think we need to do a root & branch analysis of our county set up.

The fact that we have been found wanting in fitness levels is a huge concern - Tyrone’21, Dublin ‘23 & now yesterday - O’Beaglaoich was gassed with 10/15 mins left, White was stretching his calves in front of me on 65 mins, David C looked out on his feet - this I think is the biggest issue.

There will be a few who will not feature next year for one reason or another - age/not up to it/ not able to commit.

In terms of personnel I think Kieran Fitzgibbon ( Kenmare) is the best keeper around - maybe worth a look.

Armin Heinrich too, Charlie Keating ( if available), Dylan Geaney, Cillian Burke , Seán O’Brien - need to give these guys a jersey for the national league & play them bar injury/ suspension.

Does Jack stay in & if not who is the alternative?

Personally think it’s time for him to go & maybe look at bringing Fitzmaurice back with a new back room team - could Tomás/ Donaghy/Mark Fitz/Aidan O’Shea be possible successors?

A lot to ponder !!

[The16thMan]

Jul 14, 2024 13:18:19 GMT greengold35 said:

I think we need to do a root & branch analysis of our county set up.

The fact that we have been found wanting in fitness levels is a huge concern - Tyrone’21, Dublin ‘23 & now yesterday - O’Beaglaoich was gassed with 10/15 mins left, White was stretching his calves in front of me on 65 mins, David C looked out on his feet - this I think is the biggest issue.

There will be a few who will not feature next year for one reason or another - age/not up to it/ not able to commit.

In terms of personnel I think Kieran Fitzgibbon ( Kenmare) is the best keeper around - maybe worth a look.

Armin Heinrich too, Charlie Keating ( if available), Dylan Geaney, Cillian Burke , Seán O’Brien - need to give these guys a jersey for the national league & play them bar injury/ suspension.

Does Jack stay in & if not who is the alternative?

Personally think it’s time for him to go & maybe look at bringing Fitzmaurice back with a new back room team - could Tomás/ Donaghy/Mark Fitz/Aidan O’Shea be possible successors?

A lot to ponder !!

While I agree that it's probably time for Jack to go, I can't see it happening myself. Personally I think this team are further from an All Ireland now than when we were beaten by Tyrone in 2021 under PK. But he has 1 year left and he has said in his interviews he hopes to see that out so it is very unlikely that we'll have new management in 2025.

Could it be a possibility of bringing in Donaghy as an additional selector? I'm sure he's had his fill of going up and down to Armagh by now. He is an attacker, he has that basketball background also which will help creating the space especially with the way the modern game is so similar to basketball formation wise.

[orangerhyme]

Jul 14, 2024 13:33:57 GMT The16thMan said:

Jul 14, 2024 13:18:19 GMT greengold35 said:

I think we need to do a root & branch analysis of our county set up.

The fact that we have been found wanting in fitness levels is a huge concern - Tyrone’21, Dublin ‘23 & now yesterday - O’Beaglaoich was gassed with 10/15 mins left, White was stretching his calves in front of me on 65 mins, David C looked out on his feet - this I think is the biggest issue.

There will be a few who will not feature next year for one reason or another - age/not up to it/ not able to commit.

In terms of personnel I think Kieran Fitzgibbon ( Kenmare) is the best keeper around - maybe worth a look.

Armin Heinrich too, Charlie Keating ( if available), Dylan Geaney, Cillian Burke , Seán O’Brien - need to give these guys a jersey for the national league & play them bar injury/ suspension.

Does Jack stay in & if not who is the alternative?

Personally think it’s time for him to go & maybe look at bringing Fitzmaurice back with a new back room team - could Tomás/ Donaghy/Mark Fitz/Aidan O’Shea be possible successors?

A lot to ponder !!

While I agree that it's probably time for Jack to go, I can't see it happening myself. Personally I think this team are further from an All Ireland now than when we were beaten by Tyrone in 2021 under PK. But he has 1 year left and he has said in his interviews he hopes to see that out so it is very unlikely that we'll have new management in 2025.

Could it be a possibility of bringing in Donaghy as an additional selector? I'm sure he's had his fill of going up and down to Armagh by now. He is an attacker, he has that basketball background also which will help creating the space especially with the way the modern game is so similar to basketball formation wise.

Good call on Donaghy.
It's a no brainer really.

[brucewayne]

2 years in a row that teams who played their football in division 2 have gone on to beat us.
The emphasis on the league and survival may be over egged and it could prove better as an experimenting ground for next year.

[mainevalley]

Jul 14, 2024 13:18:19 GMT greengold35 said:

I think we need to do a root & branch analysis of our county set up.

The fact that we have been found wanting in fitness levels is a huge concern - Tyrone’21, Dublin ‘23 & now yesterday - O’Beaglaoich was gassed with 10/15 mins left, White was stretching his calves in front of me on 65 mins, David C looked out on his feet - this I think is the biggest issue.

There will be a few who will not feature next year for one reason or another - age/not up to it/ not able to commit.

In terms of personnel I think Kieran Fitzgibbon ( Kenmare) is the best keeper around - maybe worth a look.

Armin Heinrich too, Charlie Keating ( if available), Dylan Geaney, Cillian Burke , Seán O’Brien - need to give these guys a jersey for the national league & play them bar injury/ suspension.

Does Jack stay in & if not who is the alternative?

Personally think it’s time for him to go & maybe look at bringing Fitzmaurice back with a new back room team - could Tomás/ Donaghy/Mark Fitz/Aidan O’Shea be possible successors?

A lot to ponder !!

Traditionally they always go with the u20 manager if had good few years or bring a manager from internal, so quirke may be looked upon.
I would prefer to see someone new. Maybe Eamon would be interested in job with Donaghy on board too.
I think we were found out for legs both in pace sense and fitness sense. I've been saying for two years straight about our lack of legs at 6 and midfield. Rian O Neill lead a merry dance as did McQuillan and turbitt when Tom was taken off.
I don't agree with you on Fitzgibbon though, I've seen him at club level quite alot,to me the three keepers there are still better than him considerably. I'd like to see Coffey get game time next year.

[brucewayne]

Also, writing off Shane Ryan is actually crazy. He has been unreal for us.

[blacksheep21]

I would be amazed if the next manager is not Tomás in 2026.

[powerhurl]

New managment for a start in 2025

[mike70]

Looks like Jack is staying on, so we need to be looking at other options, as mentioned, adding new members to the backroom team seems the best option, like it to be someone that might step into the manager role after Jack steps down.
Also a review of what has gone wrong with our conditioning in the latter part of games, worrying trend over the last few years.
As for the players, I think we have the best, we will have 5 new into the squad the year ahead with retirements etc.

[greengold35]

Jul 14, 2024 14:31:28 GMT brucewayne said:

2 years in a row that teams who played their football in division 2 have gone on to beat us.
The emphasis on the league and survival may be over egged and it could prove better as an experimenting ground for next year.

Fully agree - we need to blood players, support them & be patient with their development.

[legendz]

Jul 14, 2024 17:28:45 GMT greengold35 said:

Jul 14, 2024 14:31:28 GMT brucewayne said:

2 years in a row that teams who played their football in division 2 have gone on to beat us.
The emphasis on the league and survival may be over egged and it could prove better as an experimenting ground for next year.

Fully agree - we need to blood players, support them & be patient with their development.

Agreed with this as well. Galway were put in a place where they had to build their squad because of injuries. The squad needs to be built up, even if it risks Division 1 status. A youthful squad should be used for the league. If they are in a relegation battle, let them negotiate it without drafting in the senior players.

[onlykerry]

The obvious question is who are the candidates that we need to blood at senior level - a number of the U20 team that made it to the final were being touted for immediate elevation a few weeks ago. Other than the u20 graduates, who else (that has not already been looked at and had some time in the periphery of the squad) is out there.

Also are any of our expats likely to return in 2025?

[edgeofthesquare]

Jul 14, 2024 18:49:24 GMT onlykerry said:

The obvious question is who are the candidates that we need to blood at senior level - a number of the U20 team that made it to the final were being touted for immediate elevation a few weeks ago. Other than the u20 graduates, who else (that has not already been looked at and had some time in the periphery of the squad) is out there.

Also are any of our expats likely to return in 2025?

“Other than the u20 graduates, who else (that has not already been looked at and had some time in the periphery of the squad) is out there.”

I don’t think there’s anyone in that framework, I think every player in the county who could potentially reach the level required is either just coming out of u20 or has had some involvement with the squad already.

Either of our 2 AFL players returning would be an enormous boost.

[royalkerryfan]

As for 2025 I won't renew my season ticket.

Just becoming too difficult and too expensive.

I've no idea were we go from here.

But I would like to see David Clifford and Sean O Shea given the whole D1 league off or until the last 2 rounds.

They need a serious reset.

[greengold35]

Jul 14, 2024 19:48:32 GMT royalkerryfan said:

As for 2025 I won't renew my season ticket.

Just becoming too difficult and too expensive.

I've no idea were we go from here.

But I would like to see David Clifford and Sean O Shea given the whole D1 league off or until the last 2 rounds.

They need a serious reset.

I see your point - the condensed season, the requirement to have X amount of tickets purchased for games, the most of which are uncompetitive- Monaghan, Meath, Louth - plus the 1/4, semi & final all within 6 weeks - it’s of no value anymore.

[mainevalley]

People need to open there eyes at the upcoming club championships. The sort of athlete we need isnt there at the moment.
Killian burke was the outliner to that last year.
I can name only 3/4 more guys potentially, two u20 players Cian Lynch and Luke Crowley. Ben Murphy from stacks is that calibre already but very young. Kieran dennehy from Beaufort. Mark O shea from crokes is lovely footballer and decent athlete. But after that there's no miracle coming through.

[blacksheep21]

Jul 14, 2024 19:55:00 GMT greengold35 said:

Jul 14, 2024 19:48:32 GMT royalkerryfan said:

As for 2025 I won't renew my season ticket.

Just becoming too difficult and too expensive.

I've no idea were we go from here.

But I would like to see David Clifford and Sean O Shea given the whole D1 league off or until the last 2 rounds.

They need a serious reset.

I see your point - the condensed season, the requirement to have X amount of tickets purchased for games, the most of which are uncompetitive- Monaghan, Meath, Louth - plus the 1/4, semi & final all within 6 weeks - it’s of no value anymore.

Same here. Will go to a good few of the league games but cannot muster any enthusiasm for the early stages of the championship.

[pillar]

We need to write off the league in 2025 and rest a few players. But more important give new players a prolonged run in the league to see their worth. Maybe try players in different positions. Would Tom Sullivan make a good No.10? We need to be innovative .

[mainevalley]

Jul 14, 2024 20:02:01 GMT pillar said:

We need to write off the league in 2025 and rest a few players. But more important give new players a prolonged run in the league to see their worth. Maybe try players in different positions. Would Tom Sullivan make a good No.10? We need to be innovative .

He's played in the forwards alot of occasions at schools level.and spends alot of Time up there anyway, he would be a loss at the back.

[royalkerryfan]

This will upset everyone on here but..

I can't stop thinking about how utterly fed up David Clifford looked yesterday and in other games.

He has a young family and profession but I'd love to see him head off and travel or something for a few months.

He looks sick of it and I don't blame him.

[greengold35]

Jul 14, 2024 20:02:01 GMT pillar said:

We need to write off the league in 2025 and rest a few players. But more important give new players a prolonged run in the league to see their worth. Maybe try players in different positions. Would Tom Sullivan make a good No.10? We need to be innovative .

Think you could play Tom anywhere - think we need to rethink our strategy though more than our personnel. We have stopped kicking the ball - need a half back that delivers quality ball FORWARD, not backwards , run less , make the ball work. I would, for this reason, move Tom to HB line & look for more pace in the HF line - Cillian Burke is one that we need to develop but he might be required midfield.
Keith Evans has impressed me, Dylan Geaney should be a starter - we need that type of pace.
Maybe Paul O’Shea, Darragh Lyne, Cillian Trant might be worth looking at!

[hurlingman]

A similar issue to the latter stages of Fitzmaurices time is happening again.

Lads are looked at during the league but completely forgotten about come championship.

The changes in the minor and U20 grades seem to have really effected Kerry for some reason as we don't seem to be able to get lads into the senior level.

Imo the changes to the Junior intercounty championship haven't helped either. It was a good way to bridge the gap between underage for lads who might not have been ready for senior level right away.

[blacksheep21]

Jul 14, 2024 20:10:15 GMT royalkerryfan said:

This will upset everyone on here but..

I can't stop thinking about how utterly fed up David Clifford looked yesterday and in other games.

He has a young family and profession but I'd love to see him head off and travel or something for a few months.

He looks sick of it and I don't blame him.

David has been carrying the weight of a county since 2018 and has been one of the most famous sports people in the county for most of this time.

He has constantly raised the bar as to what we thought he was capable of. This is his first proper dip in form from the extraordinary standards he set.

He will be back and some time away from the limelight will help.

[edgeofthesquare]

Jul 14, 2024 19:55:40 GMT mainevalley said:

People need to open there eyes at the upcoming club championships. The sort of athlete we need isnt there at the moment.
Killian burke was the outliner to that last year.
I can name only 3/4 more guys potentially, two u20 players Cian Lynch and Luke Crowley. Ben Murphy from stacks is that calibre already but very young. Kieran dennehy from Beaufort. Mark O shea from crokes is lovely footballer and decent athlete. But after that there's no miracle coming through.

I would add Eddie Healy and Tomas Kennedy from the u20s. Mark O’Shea must be closer to 30 than 20 at this stage but I agree with the other 4 you mention.

[ciarraimick]

Jul 14, 2024 14:31:28 GMT brucewayne said:

2 years in a row that teams who played their football in division 2 have gone on to beat us.
The emphasis on the league and survival may be over egged and it could prove better as an experimenting ground for next year.

And two years in a row it was teams that reach the league final while many of us think the league final damages prospects.

[Premier]

Jul 14, 2024 23:42:23 GMT edgeofthesquare said:

Jul 14, 2024 19:55:40 GMT mainevalley said:

People need to open there eyes at the upcoming club championships. The sort of athlete we need isnt there at the moment.
Killian burke was the outliner to that last year.
I can name only 3/4 more guys potentially, two u20 players Cian Lynch and Luke Crowley. Ben Murphy from stacks is that calibre already but very young. Kieran dennehy from Beaufort. Mark O shea from crokes is lovely footballer and decent athlete. But after that there's no miracle coming through.

I would add Eddie Healy and Tomas Kennedy from the u20s. Mark O’Shea must be closer to 30 than 20 at this stage but I agree with the other 4 you mention.

Mark O’Shea was in training this year. He’s about 27 I believe. I also think Cillian Trant was in there, not 100% on that though.
Crowley, Lynch, Keating, Healy would be ones to look at from the 20s. Honestly not much else springing to mind after that, hopefully club and county championships show us a bit more

[brucewayne]

Jul 15, 2024 1:50:47 GMT ciarraimick said:

Jul 14, 2024 14:31:28 GMT brucewayne said:

2 years in a row that teams who played their football in division 2 have gone on to beat us.
The emphasis on the league and survival may be over egged and it could prove better as an experimenting ground for next year.

And two years in a row it was teams that reach the league final while many of us think the league final damages prospects.

What are you talking about?