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Post by southward on Jul 1, 2024 22:50:16 GMT
Think we had him as a ref at some stage this year (league?) and he was brutal then too. McKaigue's dropping the knee was a dirty act. He wasn't even involved in any challenge preceding it, just pulled Clifford down off the ball and dropped on him. Other Kerry players were being taken out off the ball too but that was the worst. God, we'll really miss Mickey Harte when he goes. Does the cccc or whoever not review these things anymore? They used to take a keen interest in Kerry games onetime. Agree with that, they had a keen interest in Mr Galvin Tomás used to feature prominently in their dreams as well. Often prompted by Des Cahill or McStay on TSG. At one stage, you couldn't enjoy a Kerry win without having to worry who was going to be fingered for suspension that evening.
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Post by Ballydonoghoor on Jul 2, 2024 1:36:45 GMT
2 observations here
1. Quality of comments is good - I find myself learning from most and isn't that the idea! Still I'd like to hear more from those who ma seede it
2. Vet great report per normal, para normal - I used to wind him up about some uncommon words but it looks like he inherited that from one Con Houlihan, a book of whom I am currently reading, so maybe that's why the penny dropped.
Funny but what I hadn't picked up on previously was the astounding similarity between Con and Micheál. Ah given the moment I'll share an example - Con speaks of someone 'growing up with the century' and not everyone twigs that he is saying that the person was born, well, at the turn of the century, so they are both grew up as the one age!
Micheál's 'Dún Síon to Croke Park' has a lot of this going on as well - I had to read it again as it went over my auld head on the first go. Con also adjudged George Best as 'not being able for his own genius' - sounds simple and therein is the genius, pun not intended! Con, and indeed Micheál were able for theirs but not nearly as well as the rest of us are for ours - now there's a good example of a Theory of Relativity!
I suppose society is always generous in praise of anyone who goes out on a limb, well it used to be anyway - but in any event these two gentlemen were beyond what they were acknowledged for - the condolences on RIP.ie this week confounds any assessment and that is saying something, not that anyone could be worthy of assessing MOM anyway!
Many say the mass was 'so Micheál', especially the end that was so ordinary but in a such a beautiful way that is hard to describe. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised but then again he always surprised, it is well worth a look if it can still be viewed, and well done to RTE too.
May they both RIP and watch over us they will - we owe them plenty, we owe it to ourselves - gosh are we lucky to have had such greats in our midst, and both at the heart of the GAA, the very chambers of it, the pump, the spirit.
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mike70
Senior Member
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Post by mike70 on Jul 2, 2024 5:11:42 GMT
Winning ugly is still winning, so they say. Well done to the boys the last day, they stuck to the process and got the result at ease in the end, I guess if Dublin done that we be all about their process and control, but we are all giving out about the horrible game and rightly so. There is a call for change across the GAA, let’s hope it’s acted upon, but for now I will take win ugly.
We still have a few under performers, maybe choked by the system, I can’t tell any more. Very solid defensively for the most part , us playing our part in the win ugly style, appreciate Jason was under pressure, but in fairness mcguigan was outlet for most Derry ball when possible. Glad to see better use of our bench and much earlier, definetly big contributor to us pushing for home and the win, so kudus to management on that.
We march on, I expect not many changes ahead of next day.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 2, 2024 7:10:48 GMT
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,193
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 2, 2024 9:11:21 GMT
It was when I looked back at the video that I saw how Mickey Harte had instilled in Derry to do David, the same thing as he had instilled in Tyrone to do to Colm Cooper years ago.
The success that Ger Brennan had with Louth this year compared with what Harte had last year, shows that what he has to offer is past tense and hasn't been successful in nearly 2 decades.
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Post by homerj on Jul 2, 2024 9:21:20 GMT
watching Harte closely the last day, he didnt open his mouth all game - another lad, no idea who he was, was calling all the shots, it honestly just looked like harte was a director of football type role.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 2, 2024 9:38:31 GMT
It was when I looked back at the video that I saw how Mickey Harte had instilled in Derry to do David, the same thing as he had instilled in Tyrone to do to Colm Cooper years ago. The success that Ger Brennan had with Louth this year compared with what Harte had last year, shows that what he has to offer is past tense and hasn't been successful in nearly 2 decades. It must be the case that Harte thought Kerry too naive to do what Dublin did to Tyrone in (?) 2018. Losing football loses again. It's just a shame that the way to beat losing football you have to play boring football. Mickey Harte a very slow learner.
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Post by ruralgaa on Jul 2, 2024 10:24:50 GMT
watching Harte closely the last day, he didnt open his mouth all game - another lad, no idea who he was, was calling all the shots, it honestly just looked like harte was a director of football type role. Gavin Devlin.
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Post by jackiel on Jul 2, 2024 10:31:51 GMT
I've never been a fan of Mickey Harte or his side kick Mr Devlin, 2 bullies. The eye drops incident a few years back sickened me. I know a lad in the Louth squad who told me the difference this year was phenomenal , the players really bought in to Ger Brennan's way of doing things. He has a very strong team around him with Niall Moyna and James McCartan and everything is really positive unlike in Harte's tenure. Time for the dinosaur to leave it to the next generation.
There has been a lot of negative talk around Sunday's match from all quarters, yes it was ugly but we're now in a semi final. Just think about what would have been posted here if we'd been pasted by Derry playing "attractive" football. It's a means to an end, onwards and upwards. I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about things since Sunday. Would love to see a big crowd in green & gold on 13th.
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Post by augustafield on Jul 2, 2024 10:49:21 GMT
Rugby is probably the most physical field game , even more so than American football , and yet foul play is immediately called out with linesmen bringing same to the attention of the Referee .
Contrast that with the punishment meted out to David Clifford , in full sight of the linesman last Sunday . Constantly throughout the game Clifford was pulled and dragged and subjected to sly digs and trash talk . He must have the silence of Job to resist retaliation and for his troubles he shares a yellow card with his tormentor . Crazy . Look how Jason Foley played Shane McGuigan - definitely Derry’s best and most dangerous performer - man to man and without a sneaky or malicious intent throughout . Good players are not being protected and Refs should not ‘ cop out ‘ by suggesting each player should look after themselves . Players are being provoked with the very intention they will retaliate and yellow cards inhibit effective contribution to the match thereafter.
It is to be hoped the new rules review body in dealing with the game will also emphatically deal with the skullduggery and gamesmanship on the field of play . Immediate and early sanctions might concentrate the players to play within the rules but the linesmen and umpires must have powers to call the Refs attention to transgressions committed outside of his eyesight .
Players discipline must be an integral part of any review/change in the rules review . Physicality is part of the game but must be within clearly defined rules and clearly defined - and applied sanctions - in the event of breaches.
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 2, 2024 11:24:56 GMT
It was when I looked back at the video that I saw how Mickey Harte had instilled in Derry to do David, the same thing as he had instilled in Tyrone to do to Colm Cooper years ago. The success that Ger Brennan had with Louth this year compared with what Harte had last year, shows that what he has to offer is past tense and hasn't been successful in nearly 2 decades. Fully agree - I reckon if MH was in charge of Louth last Sunday, they would have scored 7 or 8 points & Donegal 1-10 or 1-11! For Louth to be in Croke Park in a 1/4 final & give their supporters something to shout about, is what it’s all about!
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fg
Senior Member
Posts: 293
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Post by fg on Jul 2, 2024 11:34:43 GMT
A lot of messages about Derry's tactics. It takes two to tango. Kerry conceded kickouts, Kerry dropped Clifford back. Derry played more conservatively because we were tanked twice in championship trying to be more expansive, at least we have an excuse. I agree I have always had my suspicions about you. I was also a member of Hogan stand many years ago whilst you were a poster there and still are to this day. The other migrants from there that have joined our forum have been a great and valuable addition to this forum and add so much, but you 🤔, I have my own long held theory about you but I'll keep my counsel,maybe I'm just paranoid 😉, ciarrai abu.
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Jul 2, 2024 11:38:07 GMT
Rugby is probably the most physical field game , even more so than American football , and yet foul play is immediately called out with linesmen bringing same to the attention of the Referee . Contrast that with the punishment meted out to David Clifford , in full sight of the linesman last Sunday . Constantly throughout the game Clifford was pulled and dragged and subjected to sly digs and trash talk . He must have the silence of Job to resist retaliation and for his troubles he shares a yellow card with his tormentor . Crazy . Look how Jason Foley played Shane McGuigan - definitely Derry’s best and most dangerous performer - man to man and without a sneaky or malicious intent throughout . Good players are not being protected and Refs should not ‘ cop out ‘ by suggesting each player should look after themselves . Players are being provoked with the very intention they will retaliate and yellow cards inhibit effective contribution to the match thereafter. It is to be hoped the new rules review body in dealing with the game will also emphatically deal with the skullduggery and gamesmanship on the field of play . Immediate and early sanctions might concentrate the players to play within the rules but the linesmen and umpires must have powers to call the Refs attention to transgressions committed outside of his eyesight . Players discipline must be an integral part of any review/change in the rules review . Physicality is part of the game but must be within clearly defined rules and clearly defined - and applied sanctions - in the event of breaches. The sad reality is that proper physicality is gone from the game. We hardly see lads hitting each other a shoulder anymore. High fielding is confined to a few 50/50 balls where teams overload one side of the pitch. DC will be in for some rough treatment V Armagh and hopefully his marker gets an early yellow.
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Post by veteran on Jul 2, 2024 11:38:57 GMT
Augustafield, how right you are in pointing out the attitude of Jason in his approach to Shane McGuigan in contrast to the skullduggery at the other end of the field in respect of David . A lesson in respect your opponent. I would expect no less from a sportsman like Jason.
Jackiel, what is the story about the eye drops and Mickey Harte? I am not familiar with that one.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,193
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 2, 2024 12:11:38 GMT
Augustafield, how right you are in pointing out the attitude of Jason in his approach to Shane McGuigan in contrast to the skullduggery at the other end of the field in respect of David . A lesson in respect your opponent. I would expect no less from a sportsman like Jason. Jackiel, what is the story about the eye drops and Mickey Harte? I am not familiar with that one. Neither am I. There was the water bottle incident, the list of eye gouging incidents but I can't recall that one.
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Post by dc84 on Jul 2, 2024 12:50:44 GMT
Augustafield, how right you are in pointing out the attitude of Jason in his approach to Shane McGuigan in contrast to the skullduggery at the other end of the field in respect of David . A lesson in respect your opponent. I would expect no less from a sportsman like Jason. Jackiel, what is the story about the eye drops and Mickey Harte? I am not familiar with that one. Neither am I. There was the water bottle incident, the list of eye gouging incidents but I can't recall that one. Same as water bottle one ie eye drops in water
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Jul 2, 2024 13:02:49 GMT
His teams have been very toxic over the years. The current Tyrone aren't half as bad as since his left. Meyler & McKernan been the worst of the bunch.
You have to be at these games to appreciate the crap that goes on. By the time the cameras get on it you just see two players grappling. The only time I've seen proper footage of this is when O'Hora went after Clifford.
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Post by jackiel on Jul 2, 2024 13:28:33 GMT
Augustafield, how right you are in pointing out the attitude of Jason in his approach to Shane McGuigan in contrast to the skullduggery at the other end of the field in respect of David . A lesson in respect your opponent. I would expect no less from a sportsman like Jason. Jackiel, what is the story about the eye drops and Mickey Harte? I am not familiar with that one. Eye drops in the water bottle which was given to one of our players, almost certain it was Jason.
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Post by veteran on Jul 2, 2024 13:45:07 GMT
Augustafield, how right you are in pointing out the attitude of Jason in his approach to Shane McGuigan in contrast to the skullduggery at the other end of the field in respect of David . A lesson in respect your opponent. I would expect no less from a sportsman like Jason. Jackiel, what is the story about the eye drops and Mickey Harte? I am not familiar with that one. Eye drops in the water bottle which was given to one of our players, almost certain it was Jason. Are you serious? Sweet goodness that takes skullduggery to the basement. I had the impression for a long time that he was less than wholesome but I was prepared to make certain allowances because of the unspeakable tragedy that befell his daughter . There goes my sympathy vote.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 2, 2024 13:58:27 GMT
Nothing to do with Saint Mickey he would never.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,193
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 2, 2024 14:04:55 GMT
He has advocated very stringent standards in how people live their private lives, yet he has continued to show no moral standards when it suits him. Not the first time for that I suppose.
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Jul 2, 2024 14:14:08 GMT
His teams are always the common denominator. When he's gone suddenly the issue fades away.
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 2, 2024 14:20:37 GMT
Eye drops in the water bottle which was given to one of our players, almost certain it was Jason. Are you serious? Sweet goodness that takes skullduggery to the basement. I had the impression for a long time that he was less than wholesome but I was prepared to make certain allowances because of the unspeakable tragedy that befell his daughter . There goes my sympathy vote. Jason Foley & Briain O’Beaglaoich were the unlucky lads - both were quite sick @ half time.
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Post by derryoak on Jul 2, 2024 14:54:15 GMT
Lads you need to stop pretending Kerry are holier than thou. I watched Tom O'Sullivan pull and push Lachlan Murray for a full hour right in front of me. I'm not complaining about it as that's what you expect from top defenders in championship football. Do as much as you can get away with. In last year's match I'm surprised McGuigan was able to walk off the field with some of the hits he took. I also recall last year O'Shea deliberately injuring McGrogan as he kicked a point which put him out for months. He was clever how he did it. Kerry are no angels.
I also laugh at the accusation that the horrendous spectacle in front of us on Sunday was all Derry's fault. I can guarantee your semi final will be similar for 45 or 50 minutes. An incident may spark it into life in the closing quarter. It will be Armagh's fault when it happens as Kerry would prefer if teams gave David Clifford acres of space to play lovely direct football while putting 15 men behind the ball themselves.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 2, 2024 15:41:43 GMT
Lads you need to stop pretending Kerry are holier than thou. I watched Tom O'Sullivan pull and push Lachlan Murray for a full hour right in front of me. I'm not complaining about it as that's what you expect from top defenders in championship football. Do as much as you can get away with. In last year's match I'm surprised McGuigan was able to walk off the field with some of the hits he took. I also recall last year O'Shea deliberately injuring McGrogan as he kicked a point which put him out for months. He was clever how he did it. Kerry are no angels. I also laugh at the accusation that the horrendous spectacle in front of us on Sunday was all Derry's fault. I can guarantee your semi final will be similar for 45 or 50 minutes. An incident may spark it into life in the closing quarter. It will be Armagh's fault when it happens as Kerry would prefer if teams gave David Clifford acres of space to play lovely direct football while putting 15 men behind the ball themselves. I think our fingers are pointing at Mickey Harte rather than Derry.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 2, 2024 15:42:54 GMT
Lads you need to stop pretending Kerry are holier than thou. I watched Tom O'Sullivan pull and push Lachlan Murray for a full hour right in front of me. I'm not complaining about it as that's what you expect from top defenders in championship football. Do as much as you can get away with. In last year's match I'm surprised McGuigan was able to walk off the field with some of the hits he took. I also recall last year O'Shea deliberately injuring McGrogan as he kicked a point which put him out for months. He was clever how he did it. Kerry are no angels. I also laugh at the accusation that the horrendous spectacle in front of us on Sunday was all Derry's fault. I can guarantee your semi final will be similar for 45 or 50 minutes. An incident may spark it into life in the closing quarter. It will be Armagh's fault when it happens as Kerry would prefer if teams gave David Clifford acres of space to play lovely direct football while putting 15 men behind the ball themselves. Like a good man take the defeat with a bit of grace. If you want to accuse players of dirt then look no further than your own. The player that was banned for stamping was he the same individual who lashed out at Seanie when it blocked the ball in last years game. Poor enough comments from you.
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Post by derryoak on Jul 2, 2024 15:52:24 GMT
Lads you need to stop pretending Kerry are holier than thou. I watched Tom O'Sullivan pull and push Lachlan Murray for a full hour right in front of me. I'm not complaining about it as that's what you expect from top defenders in championship football. Do as much as you can get away with. In last year's match I'm surprised McGuigan was able to walk off the field with some of the hits he took. I also recall last year O'Shea deliberately injuring McGrogan as he kicked a point which put him out for months. He was clever how he did it. Kerry are no angels. I also laugh at the accusation that the horrendous spectacle in front of us on Sunday was all Derry's fault. I can guarantee your semi final will be similar for 45 or 50 minutes. An incident may spark it into life in the closing quarter. It will be Armagh's fault when it happens as Kerry would prefer if teams gave David Clifford acres of space to play lovely direct football while putting 15 men behind the ball themselves. I am a poster Derryoak that would never claim Kerry are saints and yes I saw Tom Sullivan pull and drag Lachlan Murray alot and while it was foul play it was nt dangerous.Also what McKaigue did on Clifford was dirty and dangerous.On the Seanie O Shea incident,if you referring to the last seconds of the game thats total bs as Seanie knocked the ball away as yoir man was trying to take a quick free (which was wrong but just trying to waste vital seconds) and your man kicked Seanie at full force (not intentional as he meant to kick the ball) in the thigh injuring himself badly in the process which was unfortunate.However Seanie just knocked the ball away from him.Watch it back. I haven't seen the McKaigue incident as I can't bring myself to watch the match back and I was at the game. I know I sound like Wenger but it's genuinely true.I will make a point of looking at it again tonight. He rolled about the floor for a few minutes after so it must have been bad 😃. The O'Shea incident was in first half last year. He dived onto mcgrogans ankle as he kicked a point. I thought it was a very dangerous tackle. Shane Ryan's tackle on McGuigan was also dirty in the same game. This is old ground but just highlighting that it works both ways. It's maybe a damning reflection on this years game that I can't think of much of note. On the pulling and dragging it was going on in both defences but only Kerry got a handy 14 yard free for it. Anyway I need to move on. I'll be back for the league game next year hopefully with a new manager!
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Post by john4 on Jul 2, 2024 16:30:59 GMT
I am a poster Derryoak that would never claim Kerry are saints and yes I saw Tom Sullivan pull and drag Lachlan Murray alot and while it was foul play it was nt dangerous.Also what McKaigue did on Clifford was dirty and dangerous.On the Seanie O Shea incident,if you referring to the last seconds of the game thats total bs as Seanie knocked the ball away as yoir man was trying to take a quick free (which was wrong but just trying to waste vital seconds) and your man kicked Seanie at full force (not intentional as he meant to kick the ball) in the thigh injuring himself badly in the process which was unfortunate.However Seanie just knocked the ball away from him.Watch it back. I haven't seen the McKaigue incident as I can't bring myself to watch the match back and I was at the game. I know I sound like Wenger but it's genuinely true.I will make a point of looking at it again tonight. He rolled about the floor for a few minutes after so it must have been bad 😃. The O'Shea incident was in first half last year. He dived onto mcgrogans ankle as he kicked a point. I thought it was a very dangerous tackle. Shane Ryan's tackle on McGuigan was also dirty in the same game. This is old ground but just highlighting that it works both ways. It's maybe a damning reflection on this years game that I can't think of much of note. On the pulling and dragging it was going on in both defences but only Kerry got a handy 14 yard free for it. Anyway I need to move on. I'll be back for the league game next year hopefully with a new manager! I know it's not your place to answer, but I'm just trying to get an insight from someone from a team/county who has done this. Why, when Derry were trailing by 3 points and time rapidly running out, Did the Derry players allow Paul Murphy, Tom O'Sullivan Paudie Clifford et al kick the ball around unopposed for up to 1 minute. Cork did the same in Munster and I just need to be told why a team would do this
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Jul 2, 2024 17:02:20 GMT
That's horse manure regarding Sean O'Shea Derry Oak. Have a look back at the incident at 08.07 on this link SOS made a genuine attempt to block down the ball and was on the shoelaces of McGrugans kicking foot. His momentum and sliding across the pitch brought him into contact with the standing foot. We see the tactic of targeting the standing foot regularly in rugby when the scrum half box kicks. Bakkies Botha at 1.25 in this video is a good example. Our from our own code this one v Colm Cooper looked very damning. www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20260782.htmlThis is not a similar case. Get to Specsavers.
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Post by southward on Jul 2, 2024 17:10:28 GMT
I know it's not your place to answer, but I'm just trying to get an insight from someone from a team/county who has done this. Why, when Derry were trailing by 3 points and time rapidly running out, Did the Derry players allow Paul Murphy, Tom O'Sullivan Paudie Clifford et al kick the ball around unopposed for up to 1 minute. Cork did the same in Munster and I just need to be told why a team would do this Donegal were the same in the 2014 final. Three points down with a few minutes left and they sitting back looking at Kerry throwing the ball across the halfway line. Seemed like the defensive mindset was so rigid and ingrained, they just couldn't bring themselves to push up to regain possession. Couldn't believe it at the time. On Sunday's nasty incidents, at least they seemed to fire our lads up. Probably other factors at play too but certainly the aftermath saw Kerry finally taking control of the game.
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