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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 1, 2024 10:16:02 GMT
Thats a ridiculous comment.'"If i dont like it stay at home".I was already there watching the tripe.I come to support and watch Kerry.I dont know how they will play until i see.I will be at semi too God permitting and hopefully the performance will be better.Today Kerry played boring ball and most neutrals agree with that.Derry .Dublin would have beaten Derry in style today ive no doubt. I for 1 won't be paying to watch that muck again. There are a generation of young adults who won't bother getting there kids involved in a sport based on the hope of 1 entertaining match a year. Why would they. Kerry would have won comfortably if they played a bit more expansoevly. Finally if derry were a disgrace what were Kerry given there far superior talent. Kerry don't care if you are entertained. They care about winning. How can you play expansive football when a top team like Derry play 15 men in their own 45 ? Dublin did it for years when they faced similar. That's the only way to beat them. Show patience keep moving the ball and wait for gaps and a runner breaking the line.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 1, 2024 10:17:19 GMT
Almost impossible to play against that type of sh1t - Harte set up Derry to frustrate & limit our opportunities- puke 🤮 football of the highest order. Thank God we won - it was a victory for football too. Shades of Dublin/Donegal 2011. victory for football? 2 teams playing puke something (not football). Kerry are in the gutter. If Derry won, under Harte the same type of play would occur in their next game. It is more likely that Kerry won't play to that standard in the next game based off previous games this year. It is a once off. It is a win for football when the team more likely to play 'football' knock out the dreck. The worst part of that game is we all know that Derry can play great football(last year's semi final was proof of this). They chose not to for reasons only they know.
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Post by john4 on Jul 1, 2024 10:19:03 GMT
Thats a ridiculous comment.'"If i dont like it stay at home".I was already there watching the tripe.I come to support and watch Kerry.I dont know how they will play until i see.I will be at semi too God permitting and hopefully the performance will be better.Today Kerry played boring ball and most neutrals agree with that.Derry .Dublin would have beaten Derry in style today ive no doubt. I for 1 won't be paying to watch that muck again. There are a generation of young adults who won't bother getting there kids involved in a sport based on the hope of 1 entertaining match a year. Why would they. Kerry would have won comfortably if they played a bit more expansoevly. Finally if derry were a disgrace what were Kerry given there far superior talent. "Kerry would have won comfortably if they played a bit more expansoevly" History has repeatedly told us otherwise
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Post by otobeawinner on Jul 1, 2024 10:26:39 GMT
victory for football? 2 teams playing puke something (not football). Kerry are in the gutter. If Derry won, under Harte the same type of play would occur in their next game. It is more likely that Kerry won't play to that standard in the next game based off previous games this year. It is a once off. It is a win for football when the team more likely to play 'football' knock out the dreck. The worst part of that game is we all know that Derry can play great football(last year's semi final was proof of this). They chose not to for reasons only they know. who's to say we went out to play. We set out our stall from the start. Lawn bowls would be more exciting. It's not a 1 off either.
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Post by john4 on Jul 1, 2024 10:33:19 GMT
If Derry won, under Harte the same type of play would occur in their next game. It is more likely that Kerry won't play to that standard in the next game based off previous games this year. It is a once off. It is a win for football when the team more likely to play 'football' knock out the dreck. The worst part of that game is we all know that Derry can play great football(last year's semi final was proof of this). They chose not to for reasons only they know. who's to say we went out to play. We set out our stall from the start. Lawn bowls would be more exciting. It's not a 1 off either. What gives us the right to have the arrogance to be able to dictate HOW we win matches. Lots of teams struggle with everything they have to get over the line and win and don't have the tools to adapt to the opposition. We don't own the game. It's not ours to mind and owe it nothing.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 1, 2024 10:40:17 GMT
I for 1 won't be paying to watch that muck again. There are a generation of young adults who won't bother getting there kids involved in a sport based on the hope of 1 entertaining match a year. Why would they. Kerry would have won comfortably if they played a bit more expansoevly. Finally if derry were a disgrace what were Kerry given there far superior talent. "Kerry would have won comfortably if they played a bit more expansoevly" History has repeatedly told us otherwise I agree. Like do people forget 2021 or can they not make the link. We don't have to go back that far. The same players on the pitch know that.
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Post by homerj on Jul 1, 2024 10:42:35 GMT
Thats a ridiculous comment.'"If i dont like it stay at home".I was already there watching the tripe.I come to support and watch Kerry.I dont know how they will play until i see.I will be at semi too God permitting and hopefully the performance will be better.Today Kerry played boring ball and most neutrals agree with that.Derry .Dublin would have beaten Derry in style today ive no doubt. I for 1 won't be paying to watch that muck again. There are a generation of young adults who won't bother getting there kids involved in a sport based on the hope of 1 entertaining match a year. Why would they. Kerry would have won comfortably if they played a bit more expansoevly. Finally if derry were a disgrace what were Kerry given there far superior talent. what were Kerry? all ireland semi finalists, after a comfortable win. thats what we are!
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thepope
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,285
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Post by thepope on Jul 1, 2024 10:42:59 GMT
A job done and on we go.
Prior to the game there was plenty of talk of going after Derry, being aggressive etc. I didn't think there was much merit to that chat and so it proved, as we got a tense, cagey, tight affair.
Firstly I want to give Joe O'Connor massive credit. I had concerns about this untested area of the pitch. While there wasn't much high fielding due to conceded kickouts, Joe shadowed Rogers all day, didn't overcommit to a tackle to give Derry an overlap and, bar one poor turnover under the Cusack Stand, he secured possession and moved the ball on quickly throughout the game. Credit where it's due.
The game itself was one of funneling defences back, keeping space tight as Derry, on their third consecutive weekend of football and after a few chastening defeats, obviously decided that a cautious, tight approach gave them the best chance of victory. Kerry have obviously worked hard on quick counters and Derry opted to nullify that.
Within the first minute another concern of many here raised it's head as McKinless cut through for a goal chance. Thankfully we didn't cough up much more in the line of goal chances and, given our defensive form to date, this was very good to see. Our defence turned up yesterday and this has been a massive strength of ours in the past number of years.
David Clifford led the way early on with a super 1st-minute point. Clifford delayed popping it over as he surveyed if an opening for a goal was on offer. Then his 8th minute fetch in the air, over Derry heads, was a highlight for a marked point. The rest of David's day wouldn't live up to this early promise but he played well enough, drew plenty defensive attention and yesterday didn't play out as a game where David would be adding to his highlights reel. McGuigan also hinted early on that he was setting up for a stellar day but this also didn't materialise, it just wasn't the day for it.
I thought our tactic on Odhran Lynch worked well. Odhran didn't come out from goal that often but when he did we circled a player behind him forcing him to keep going into traffic. This led to hesitation on his part as we took away the safety of the backwards hand-pass. It was very good to see we learned from last year's encounter on this one.
In the first half we had 4/5 opportunities to stretch our 1-point lead to 2 but did poorly with some wayward shooting. While a 2-point lead might not seem like much, in the context of this game it would have been massive. Derry went 10 first-half minutes without scoring and we didn't capitalise. Maybe we hadn't been road tested yet and we got the dirty diesel out of the system as the game moved on.
A 7-2 points finish to the game is the most pleasing aspect of yesterday's game. I've criticised this team before for not finishing strongly and leaving teams in games. Notably, in our All-Ireland year, we let Dublin back into the semi-final and the final victory over Galway took longer to close out than it should have as I felt Galway were out on their feet after 55 minutes.
We closed out the game strongly, yesterday. Our bench, which was weak to start the year, showed the work Jack & Co. have put in during the league to develop options. Killian kicked a beautiful point soon after his introduction, Cillian Burke was outstanding when he came in. He was strong, vocal and brave in showing for possession and he is clearly a serious prospect. Dylan Geaney also showed that we have punch off the bench with his point. Mike Breen is another fine, strong footballer who will add to our team from the bench and probably more in the near future.
We have a strong bench again, a weakness of ours last year. Credit to management for developing this as it's a crucial aspect of the game with a long time now.
Last word on Kerry is for Brian O'Beaglaíoch. We missed him last year. He is an outstanding footballer. He is a consistent outlet on our kick out, never afraid to show for the ball. He carried ball through the lines and the comments in the stand, where we were sitting, had him picked as MotM long before the final whistle. A super display.
Finally, as this post is way too long! Derry have some serious footballers and some young prospects too. They lost their way after the league final. We've all heard the holiday rumours etc. This left them playing on a third consecutive weekend and it seems they turned out to be their own worst enemy.
There is serious talent and scoring potential in that Derry team but I don't think Mickey Harte is the man to maximise that talent. Derry are absolutely good enough to win an All-Ireland but not playing like this.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 1, 2024 10:45:07 GMT
If Derry won, under Harte the same type of play would occur in their next game. It is more likely that Kerry won't play to that standard in the next game based off previous games this year. It is a once off. It is a win for football when the team more likely to play 'football' knock out the dreck. The worst part of that game is we all know that Derry can play great football(last year's semi final was proof of this). They chose not to for reasons only they know. who's to say we went out to play. We set out our stall from the start. Lawn bowls would be more exciting. It's not a 1 off either. Are you seriously saying if Derry didn't park the bus that Kerry would not attack? The space wasn't there to kick in as Clifford had a man hanging off each ear and the whole Derry team were camped in their 45. Are you demanding Kerry kick the ball into areas where they will lose the ball because it's a forward kick? Kerry v Cork Kerry v Clare Kerry v Monaghan Kerry v Meath Kerry v Louth Which one of the above did Kerry behave the exact same way as yesterday?
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Jul 1, 2024 10:53:22 GMT
Mike Breen adds a nice bit of strength coming on too. He ran straight through a Derry player in that breakaway point towards the end for Dylan Geaney.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jul 1, 2024 11:08:14 GMT
People should just be happy with the win.
We've lost enough classics over the years.
This is David Clifford's 7th season and he has only won AI to show for it.
My hope is he lifts our 40th.
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Post by augustafield on Jul 1, 2024 11:12:04 GMT
Was it Paidi ( R.I.P. ) who made some uncomplimentary comments about Kerry supporters all those years ago ? Well he must be reading the Posts on this Forum as little has changed - we are a hard breed to satisfy .
Absolutely agreed that yesterday was a hard watch but the expression ‘ horses for courses comes to mind ‘ In life in business in sport problems and difficulties arise but solutions compromises and remedies must be found and usually are so yesterday’s Kerry performance whilst not agreeable for the purist was a pragmatic solution to defensive tactic presented by Derry and to a lesser extent Mickey Harte . And full marks and all credit to Jack O Connor and his Management team and to the players for following his instructions . Too often our natural open football style has suffered from tactics that we had no answer to - “ fail to prepare , prepare to fail “ Kerry’s tactics yesterday were spot on - not pretty but very successful - and if we collect Sam our game against Derry will be recognized as a recognition of what is required in the current game . What struck me yesterday was the instruction NOT to take the ball into traffic as such a ploy has been so expensive for us in the past , not least in the closing stages of the 2019 final ( first game) JOC knows what is required to win All Irelands and of course wants success for Kerry and the critism of him on this Forum is totally unwarranted .
A regular Poster here Ciarraimick stated that had he been told that Kerry would be in the semi final with the Dubs and Derry gone he’d be happy . But then goes on to slate JOC for the tactics employed by Kerry . Wonder how Mick would feel if Kerry collect Sam in a months time. ? Which is his preference - winning Sam if such requires winning ugly - or losing Sam by ignoring realities and trying to win pretty . Now this is not being critical of Mick , he is of course entitled to his opinion , but as a Poster so dedicated to the cause of Kerry , I have a fair idea of what his preference would be .
So lay off JOC - Kerry are still alive , have motored along quietly under the radar , have done all that was expected of them , including a change in the style of their play as befits the opposition - and dare I say it , are not finished yet .
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Post by Kingdomson on Jul 1, 2024 11:20:34 GMT
So, Kerry as expected join Armagh, Donegal, and Galway, not only as semi-finalists in 2024 but as teams that have beaten Derry in championship football during 2024. Derry won a league title by penalty competition having drawn with Dublin in a game and ended up in a quarter final having drawn another game with Mayo by another penalty competition. If Kerry weren’t able to put this edition of Derry out of their collective misery in 2024 it would have led to some deep introspection. It was job done and no more, no less.
I expected Kerry to finally put in an end to Derry, and a worry for me coming into this match is we might see one of our marquee players injured or suckered into a red card and missing further possible fixtures. We avoided picking up damaging cards and hopefully injuries as well. Under Mickey Harte’s regime Derry brought an even more cynical edge this season and they were out to hurt opposition players. The championship is all the better for the elimination of this version of Derry – well done Kerry!
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Post by anriochtabu23 on Jul 1, 2024 11:26:37 GMT
Double post
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 1, 2024 11:35:47 GMT
I gave up a day of my life to go to this game and the only saving grace was we are still in the Championship.
The game was a demonstration of everything that is wrong with football and needs to be the catalyst for change we all crave. With my green and gold tinted glasses I will say Kerry responded to a situation and did what was required to emerge victorious. Like so many around me in the stands I roared for Kerry to move the ball faster but on reflection this would have played into Derry's hands and patience, boring patience was the order of the day.
How it takes four defeats to eliminate a team from the championship beggars belief. How a ref and his officials let the off the ball antics go and eventually respond with the antiquated two yellows is an indictment of themselves.
Rule changes are urgently required to promote football and get rid of massed defences for once and for all and will Derry please trust in the skilled footballers they have and play the game like we know they can - MH's win at all costs negativity and coached dark arts needs to be abandoned. The game needs to be rescued from those who advocate and coach such tactics.
Time to draw a line under yesterday and move on.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 1, 2024 11:42:23 GMT
In terms of someone who has been very negative about the match, the only tweak I would have made is to keep two forwards up the pitch to have a functioning counter attack. People talking about slowing it up... that was because there was nobody to kick it forward to. This happened multiple times and is not good football.
I wasn't calling for ball kicked into the set defence or carrying the ball into blind alleys.
Just to have 2/3 of a forward line outlet for a counter attack.
In terms of dealing with the set defence absolutely Kerry deserve credit and in these phases of the game I thought Paul Geaney very effective.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 1, 2024 12:24:19 GMT
I think some of you are missing the point.Of course winning is the important matter but we are Kerry and we can win playing without such caution.Many here blaming Derry.Kerry mirrored Derry except we scored more.If Derry had got the early goal who knows what would ve happened.There were times yesterday when Derry lost the ball we had chances to burst at pace against Derry and they were backpeddling but we slowed it up.Armagh and Donegal did the opposite to us and punished Derry bigtime.Do we forget it was this negativity that stopped us beating the Dubs in last years final.We had our foot on Dublins throat and released it.Its sinful not to be more creative with the forward talent we have. Hold on Mick, Donegal and Armagh beat a Derry team that went all out attack and were wide open at the back. Derry against Mayo and against us played ultra defensive football. I'm sort of amazed that this is even a debate. There is no better way to beat that system than what Kerry did yesterday. You mirror what's infront of you and work the flanks and wait till the defenders switch of and you take your score. It's not pretty but its prove by Dublin to work. 2021 should be the reference point here.
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Post by seaniebo on Jul 1, 2024 12:38:24 GMT
I think some of you are missing the point.Of course winning is the important matter but we are Kerry and we can win playing without such caution.Many here blaming Derry.Kerry mirrored Derry except we scored more.If Derry had got the early goal who knows what would ve happened.There were times yesterday when Derry lost the ball we had chances to burst at pace against Derry and they were backpeddling but we slowed it up.Armagh and Donegal did the opposite to us and punished Derry bigtime.Do we forget it was this negativity that stopped us beating the Dubs in last years final.We had our foot on Dublins throat and released it.Its sinful not to be more creative with the forward talent we have. You're going to have to watch the Armagh and Donegal games again Mick. Derry were shockingly wide open at the back in both those games. This was an altogether different set up. The Dubs were also set up extremely defensively last year. They did what it took to win. Kerry did likewise yesterday. Lessons learnt. I for one am in total agreement with the similar views of those of us you reckon are missing the point. I am a very satisfied supporter today looking forward to an All Ireland semi final. I will also say that had Kerry been more expansive we were likely to run into trouble and cough up possession resulting in a few minutes without the ball. Better to control the controllables. The end justifies the means.
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Post by homerj on Jul 1, 2024 12:50:13 GMT
.Do we forget it was this negativity that stopped us beating the Dubs in last years final.We had our foot on Dublins throat and released it.Its sinful not to be more creative with the forward talent we have. we lost to Dublin because we kicked 6 or 7 wides in the last 10 minutes. we gifted them a goal. thats why we lost, nothing to do with negativity in our approach. the same approach that had us ahead by 3 points, on 3 occasions. they took their chances last 10 mins, we kicked them wide.
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Post by john4 on Jul 1, 2024 12:51:40 GMT
In terms of someone who has been very negative about the match, the only tweak I would have made is to keep two forwards up the pitch to have a functioning counter attack. People talking about slowing it up... that was because there was nobody to kick it forward to. This happened multiple times and is not good football. I wasn't calling for ball kicked into the set defence or carrying the ball into blind alleys. Just to have 2/3 of a forward line outlet for a counter attack. In terms of dealing with the set defence absolutely Kerry deserve credit and in these phases of the game I thought Paul Geaney very effective. You'd assume that the management team would have considered this as you say, the threat of 2 Kerry forwards high up the field should keep defenders home. But what if they didn't, What if Derry went 14 outfield players against our 12 outfield players? Would they have scored more than their 8 points from play? Would 12 Kerry defenders be capable of turning over 14 Derry players? I'd think the effort involved could potentially lead to fatigue and maybe goal opportunities. These are calculated decisions made by management Everything you do needs to be assessed in real time to guage it's impact on the game
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Post by brucewayne on Jul 1, 2024 12:53:31 GMT
It's weird no one is mentioning 2014 as part of this debate. It was an awful game but the canister came home.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 1, 2024 12:54:26 GMT
It's weird no one is mentioning 2014 as part of this debate. It was an awful game but the canister came home. 5 > 2!
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Post by dc84 on Jul 1, 2024 12:54:59 GMT
I think we could've played abit more expensively myself but not much it was a game to be won and we did! Too often previously we went into these games naively got turned over too often and gave the other team tyrone donegal 2012 etc oxygen derry to my memory never really got that big turnover. That being said I thought paudi was way too deep and when he got it was too slow I moving it on that could've been options but I'm not sure as I couldn't go last minute (thank god).
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 1, 2024 12:57:37 GMT
In terms of someone who has been very negative about the match, the only tweak I would have made is to keep two forwards up the pitch to have a functioning counter attack. People talking about slowing it up... that was because there was nobody to kick it forward to. This happened multiple times and is not good football. I wasn't calling for ball kicked into the set defence or carrying the ball into blind alleys. Just to have 2/3 of a forward line outlet for a counter attack. In terms of dealing with the set defence absolutely Kerry deserve credit and in these phases of the game I thought Paul Geaney very effective. You'd assume that the management team would have considered this as you say, the threat of 2 Kerry forwards high up the field should keep defenders home. But what if they didn't, What if Derry went 14 outfield players against our 12 outfield players? Would they have scored more than their 8 points from play? Would 12 Kerry defenders be capable of turning over 14 Derry players? I'd think the effort involved could potentially lead to fatigue and maybe goal opportunities. These are calculated decisions made by management Everything you do needs to be assessed in real time to guage it's impact on the game I can only concede that the Kerry management know an awful lot more about football than me. An awful lot more.
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Post by john4 on Jul 1, 2024 13:02:44 GMT
You'd assume that the management team would have considered this as you say, the threat of 2 Kerry forwards high up the field should keep defenders home. But what if they didn't, What if Derry went 14 outfield players against our 12 outfield players? Would they have scored more than their 8 points from play? Would 12 Kerry defenders be capable of turning over 14 Derry players? I'd think the effort involved could potentially lead to fatigue and maybe goal opportunities. These are calculated decisions made by management Everything you do needs to be assessed in real time to guage it's impact on the game I can only concede that the Kerry management know an awful lot more about football than me. An awful lot more. On the face of it, you'd say it'd be incredibly brave & crazy to leave David Clifford & Sean O'Shea unmarked while all Derry players attack, But I'd say Derry would have enough confidence & ability to believe that they wouldn't lose the ball in contact. That they'd get the shot away and that that shot would go dead I don't know I'm only throwing it out And if we did this, were outscored and lost, we'd all be on here Monday morning saying why the hell weren't DC & Sean O'Shea marking their men. 🥺
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Post by ciarraimick on Jul 1, 2024 13:20:15 GMT
.Do we forget it was this negativity that stopped us beating the Dubs in last years final.We had our foot on Dublins throat and released it.Its sinful not to be more creative with the forward talent we have. we lost to Dublin because we kicked 6 or 7 wides in the last 10 minutes. we gifted them a goal. thats why we lost, nothing to do with negativity in our approach. the same approach that had us ahead by 3 points, on 3 occasions. they took their chances last 10 mins, we kicked them wide. The Dublin goal which cost us came from negativity.We had the ball and instead of going forward we passed backwards and it was intercepted so yes negativity cost us the All Ireland.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 1, 2024 13:22:14 GMT
I can only concede that the Kerry management know an awful lot more about football than me. An awful lot more. On the face of it, you'd say it'd be incredibly brave & crazy to leave David Clifford & Sean O'Shea unmarked while all Derry players attack, But I'd say Derry would have enough confidence & ability to believe that they wouldn't lose the ball in contact. That they'd get the shot away and that that shot would go dead I don't know I'm only throwing it out And if we did this, were outscored and lost, we'd all be on here Monday morning saying why the hell weren't DC & Sean O'Shea marking their men. 🥺 I'll give you another counterfactual. What if Derry scored a pox goal and won by a point after Kerry had nothing from counter attack?
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Post by john4 on Jul 1, 2024 13:30:35 GMT
On the face of it, you'd say it'd be incredibly brave & crazy to leave David Clifford & Sean O'Shea unmarked while all Derry players attack, But I'd say Derry would have enough confidence & ability to believe that they wouldn't lose the ball in contact. That they'd get the shot away and that that shot would go dead I don't know I'm only throwing it out And if we did this, were outscored and lost, we'd all be on here Monday morning saying why the hell weren't DC & Sean O'Shea marking their men. 🥺 I'll give you another counterfactual. What if Derry scored a pox goal and won by a point after Kerry had nothing from counter attack? DC tipped a ball away for a 45 in the 1st half. If he didn't Chrissy McKaigue would have scored that goal
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Post by dc84 on Jul 1, 2024 13:45:37 GMT
In lots of ways this might not have been a bad thing to happen I think we could've really beaten derry well yesterday but all the pressure would've been on us with dubs out now the narrative is a lot different. Can galway back up that performance against the greatest 1 all ireland winning manager who has ever lived ? Can the same said manager bring donegal back to the promised land? Can armagh beat an "untested" kerry ? That's another nugget I find funny always with kerry it's we don't know where they are etc etc this is a settled team that has made the last 2 finals we know what they are capable of and if they show it will be in the final again
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Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 450
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Post by Hicser on Jul 1, 2024 14:10:14 GMT
The big point from JOC was that he didn’t see another way we could beat Derry other than the way we played. We were prepared for what Derry were going to do and we won by 5 points. So you’d have to say well done to management. We were just ok in 1st half but had a good 2nd half. If we had played as well in the 1st half then it would have been a hammering.
Here are the positives: 1. Derry did test us though, physically & mentally. Finally a test! 2. We improved as the game went on, always a good sign. 3. If we bring the 2nd half performance to the Armagh game that should see us through, Armagh will be negative I believe. 4. No injuries, other Graham. 5. Massive bench impact. I would leave team as is but maybe a few coming on early. 6. We held our own at midfield with room for improvement. 7. No goals conceded or even a sniff of a goal. I believe we will win the AI if we keep 2 clean sheets. 8. SOS, Paudie & David have yet to fire though they have no room but if they do we can only imagine more scores. 9. Kickouts worked very well. A huge plus for us.
Negatives: 1. The style of football, while maybe not our fault is a struggle to watch. I see a lot of posters thanking there lucky stars they didn’t go. I expect small Kerry crowd for Semi as well and hope to make Final with Galway. 2. We didn’t score a goal and don’t seem to be looking too hard for one. The Dubs always go for jugular at a turnover to score a goal, we don’t and don’t seem to plan for it.
All in all still very positive 👍
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