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Out of interest, could anyone here reference any year where the second best footballer did not win an all star? Seems like it would be an anomaly today, and potentially point to a change in how voters select all-stars.
Well obviously that's hard as it all about opinions but I recall Mikey Sheehy being brilliant in 1980 for Kerry at number 13.He also scored 1-6 out of 1-9 in our All Ireland win v Roscommon. He was one of the best players that year but was up against Matt Connor of Offaly and Matt got the all star. Mikey did nt. Today both would have been the first two names picked. That was the system back then.
Thanks for that ciarraimick. That does seem like a more rigid system. I think Declan Browne of Tipperary spoke about getting an All-star for a position he didn't play and feeling he didn't deserve it as it wasn't his position, even if he was one of the 6 best forwards that year. His reasoning was that either he was good enough in his own position or he wasn't.
David Clifford is the biggest superstar in gaa today. I could nt help but notice at the away games in the league I attended this year the opposing fans running to Clifford when game over. I have nt seen that since Joe Canning. To his credit he spends lots of time signing jerseys autographs and posing for photos. A class act on and off the field and a credit to Kerry.
Overall I think it was fair, well if popular is fair anyway. Still Comer had a poor AI final but he is still deemed in the top 15 while TO'S isn't - and we always thought there were more attackers than defenders. Funny enough but I wouldn't leave out Damien either, if only for his traditional style and skill. And then there was that fight he started as they left the ballroom - some say he was intoxicated just like everyone else while wiser counsel contends that he was getting what he wanted at all costs, and who would ever have thought it a good idea to get the opponent in big trouble with the bouncers?
A forward can get away with one or two bad games if he shines in others. One bad game and a vack can lose out. Same with a keeper
Pat Spillane s record as an all star is just second to none. He won them at a time when it was much harder to win an all star. That time a player was nominated for the one position. You could be the second best player in the country over a year and not get an all star if you played in same position as the number one player. Nowadays if you in top 5 it 6 you will get accommodated. Spillane also was injured for 2 years. His record is top class. Also even Shefflin no disrespect is a of different era too and hurli g had a much smaller pool. Under the old system Comer would nt get an all star as he d be up against Clifford and Clifford probably would nt have got one in 2018.On poty while we don't know who will win David was more consistent than Shane and scored more from play and played in a higher division. For me it's a no contest between them. Clifford poty.
Players back then were nominated in one position but often they were nominated in positions they didn't play in if there was a top class rival in the same position. Bomber Liston won an all-star at centre forward in the mid 80s. Matt Connor, I think, won 2 in the half forward line. I think he was picked half forward in 82 to accommodate the entire Kerry full forward line.
Wow fair play Clariman you have some memory. I know Matt Connor got all stars in half forward line and cf but he played alit at 11 12 13 and 14 but forgot about Bomber getting one cf. 👋
Well obviously that's hard as it all about opinions but I recall Mikey Sheehy being brilliant in 1980 for Kerry at number 13.He also scored 1-6 out of 1-9 in our All Ireland win v Roscommon. He was one of the best players that year but was up against Matt Connor of Offaly and Matt got the all star. Mikey did nt. Today both would have been the first two names picked. That was the system back then.
Thanks for that ciarraimick. That does seem like a more rigid system. I think Declan Browne of Tipperary spoke about getting an All-star for a position he didn't play and feeling he didn't deserve it as it wasn't his position, even if he was one of the 6 best forwards that year. His reasoning was that either he was good enough in his own position or he wasn't.
Well I'm off the opinion if you are in the top 5 or 6 forwards over the course of the year you deserve your slot and Dec Browne def deserved his All star.
Overall I think it was fair, well if popular is fair anyway. Still Comer had a poor AI final but he is still deemed in the top 15 while TO'S isn't - and we always thought there were more attackers than defenders. Funny enough but I wouldn't leave out Damien either, if only for his traditional style and skill. And then there was that fight he started as they left the ballroom - some say he was intoxicated just like everyone else while wiser counsel contends that he was getting what he wanted at all costs, and who would ever have thought it a good idea to get the opponent in big trouble with the bouncers?
A forward can get away with one or two bad games if he shines in others. One bad game and a vack can lose out. Same with a keeper
Would agree with this. Another factor was the competition - McKaigue and Silke had stellar campaigns and while Tom is a great player, he was destroyed in the final. Where Comer was concerned the only viable alternative was probably Rian O'Neill who had a great league but an ordinary championship, save for 'that' free. The winning of the All Star for Comer was his 2-2 of 2-8 haul in the semi final, when Walsh did not score from play. Finals count but so do semi's as Galway would probably not have made the final were it not for Comer's display in that game against Derry.
Agreed. The competition in the backs was ferocious. Brendan Rogers lost out for similar reasons to Tom while the likes of Lee Keegan and Graham O Sullivan who both had very good years were not even in the picture.
Overall I think it was fair, well if popular is fair anyway. Still Comer had a poor AI final but he is still deemed in the top 15 while TO'S isn't - and we always thought there were more attackers than defenders. Funny enough but I wouldn't leave out Damien either, if only for his traditional style and skill. And then there was that fight he started as they left the ballroom - some say he was intoxicated just like everyone else while wiser counsel contends that he was getting what he wanted at all costs, and who would ever have thought it a good idea to get the opponent in big trouble with the bouncers?
A forward can get away with one or two bad games if he shines in others. One bad game and a vack can lose out. Same with a keeper
Yip, just like a ref gives the benefit of the doubt to defenders - otherwise his decision could determine the overall result and maybe his career path!
Folkfactlóir, legendary only in myth. Creativity is the culture of caste of clan. The Kerry Ingredient, part of what we are, and without it we are only part of what we are. With a deluge of silky skill, the Kingdom need to do as royalty do and thicken the blood with that commoner hoor ingredient, the icing on the cake! In the Bawn's day we had fishermen and farmers, with a teacher for the frees; crossing blood lines - 'Tiz a Fine Line!
I would argue it's harder to win one now. Back then if your position was particularly weak amongst other counties it was easy to win an All-Star and Pat's position of Left Wing Forward didn't have a glut of talent around making it easier for him to win. These days if there's 6 better players in any position in the forwards you lose out.
Basically if your position has lots of talented players in that specific position, it's easier to win one now, but if you're in a position with little competition it was easier back then.
Have to disagree with you big time. The fact is that if you are in the top 4 or 5 forwards in the year you will get an all star. Back then you could be 2nd best player in the country and lose out because the best player was in your position. You had to be the best player in your position in the country then. Now you don't. Example Paudie Clifford at 15 would have lost out to Shane Walsh. Comer would gave lost out to David etc. Nowadays as a rule the 6 best forwards get the slot. Not back then.
This year Rory Grugan was the only right-half forward nominated. Under the old system he would have won a soft All-Star as his position had very little competition even though he probably wasn't even in the top 15 forwards in Ireland this year. So in those sort of cases it was a lot easier to win one under the old system.
Out of interest, could anyone here reference any year where the second best footballer did not win an all star? Seems like it would be an anomaly today, and potentially point to a change in how voters select all-stars.
Well obviously that's hard as it all about opinions but I recall Mikey Sheehy being brilliant in 1980 for Kerry at number 13.He also scored 1-6 out of 1-9 in our All Ireland win v Roscommon. He was one of the best players that year but was up against Matt Connor of Offaly and Matt got the all star. Mikey did nt. Today both would have been the first two names picked. That was the system back then.
Of that 1-6 I believe all the points were pretty easy frees, and for the goal, Pat Spillane had done all the hard work before laying it on for him. No doubt to me that Matt O'Connor, Power, Spillane, the Bomber and Egan had better years than Mikey Sheehy in 80. Even Michael Finneran and Tony McManus could possibly feel more hard done by than Sheehy for not getting All-Stars.
Well obviously that's hard as it all about opinions but I recall Mikey Sheehy being brilliant in 1980 for Kerry at number 13.He also scored 1-6 out of 1-9 in our All Ireland win v Roscommon. He was one of the best players that year but was up against Matt Connor of Offaly and Matt got the all star. Mikey did nt. Today both would have been the first two names picked. That was the system back then.
Of that 1-6 I believe all the points were pretty easy frees, and for the goal, Pat Spillane had done all the hard work before laying it on for him. No doubt to me that Matt O'Connor, Power, Spillane, the Bomber and Egan had better years than Mikey Sheehy in 80. Even Michael Finneran and Tony McManus could possibly feel more hard done by than Sheehy for not getting All-Stars.
Not all Sheehy points were frees and without Sheehy Kerry would not have won final. Sheehy had a brilliant year in 80 but was up against Matt Connor who scored 2-9 against Kerry in semi final. Bomber did nt play at all in final and Rgan was very quiet. Mícheál Finneran was brliant also that year but he too was against Matt Connor. Under the present format Finneran would have got an all star as would Sheehy and Bomber might not have.
Since the system changed with nominations some players get nominated now that many feel don't deserve like for example Con Ó Callaghan. Under the old system he would nt have got a nomination this year for his position but this year he did for his scoring exploits. Likewise one of my favourite players ever Maurice Fitzgerald got a nomination in 2000 as a forward. No way would he have got one under the old system. Maurice never played in the league that year (injured) and never started a championship game coming on as a sub in every game.
Also under the old system, any player who was sent off during the yr wasn't eligible for consideration. Different rules on fhe field of play in those times I know, no colour cards etc but that waS the rule.
Players back then were nominated in one position but often they were nominated in positions they didn't play in if there was a top class rival in the same position. Bomber Liston won an all-star at centre forward in the mid 80s. Matt Connor, I think, won 2 in the half forward line. I think he was picked half forward in 82 to accommodate the entire Kerry full forward line.
it was 1984 when Bomber won his All Star at center forward. He played 6 league game at that position not including the final when Kerry beat Galway. He didn't start due to injury but came on center forward with Ogie moving to the wing for Timmy O'Dowd. '84 was Bomber's best year for Kerry, he was also outstanding at 11. Back then the league was also considered.
In 1972 a complete unknown, to me at any rate, won an All star at corner forward, Armagh's Paddy Moriarty. Armagh did not even get to the Ulster final. Did they even win a championship game, not sure. Paddy turned out to become one of Armagh's greatests ever players and won another All Star in 1977 at center back. A story like Paddy's would never happen today
Players back then were nominated in one position but often they were nominated in positions they didn't play in if there was a top class rival in the same position. Bomber Liston won an all-star at centre forward in the mid 80s. Matt Connor, I think, won 2 in the half forward line. I think he was picked half forward in 82 to accommodate the entire Kerry full forward line.
it was 1984 when Bomber won his All Star at center forward. He played 6 league game at that position not including the final when Kerry beat Galway. He didn't start due to injury but came on center forward with Ogie moving to the wing for Timmy O'Dowd. '84 was Bomber's best year for Kerry, he was also outstanding at 11. Back then the league was also considered.
In 1972 a complete unknown, to me at any rate, won an All star at corner forward, Armagh's Paddy Moriarty. Armagh did not even get to the Ulster final. Did they even win a championship game, not sure. Paddy turned out to become one of Armagh's greatests ever players and won another All Star in 1977 at center back. A story like Paddy's would never happen today
Yes Aodhán I checked Wikipedia and saw that not only did Moriarty win an all star at cf in 72 not one Kerry forward got an award that year eventhough we went to an all ireland final replay. Armagh were beaten early and Moriarty did even score. I remember Paddy around 77 onwards and a fine ff and centre back (think he had Kerry blood too) but very odd he got selected in 72.
I think it's a joke that Tom Sullivan didnt get an all star.
Liam silke getting one over him is a reflection of what is required to win an all star as a defender.
Liam was given the role of marking seanie in the final. Galway's best defender, sean kelly, marked our best attacker - Dave clifford. Liam silke gets an all star but sean kelly does not. If silke was given the task of marking clifford, sean kelly would have got an all star!
This shows that defenders are rewarded for NOT marking the oppositions main attacker. Same can be said for Chrissy McKaigue. He marked galways weakest full forward in finnerty and got the all star. Put him on Comer that day and no all star!
But when tom sullivan marks the second best attacker in the country, in croke park, in perfect attacking conditions, he is told that he is not as good as Silke or McKaigue! We are lead to believe that either of those two men would have done a better job than tom - my f*ckin b*llx!
If someone were to create a team with the country's best players this year(aka the all star team). You would be crazy to start Silke over Tom.
I think it's a joke that Tom Sullivan didnt get an all star.
Liam silke getting one over him is a reflection of what is required to win an all star as a defender.
Liam was given the role of marking seanie in the final. Galway's best defender, sean kelly, marked our best attacker - Dave clifford. Liam silke gets an all star but sean kelly does not. If silke was given the task of marking clifford, sean kelly would have got an all star!
This shows that defenders are rewarded for NOT marking the oppositions main attacker. Same can be said for Chrissy McKaigue. He marked galways weakest full forward in finnerty and got the all star. Put him on Comer that day and no all star!
But when tom sullivan marks the second best attacker in the country, in croke park, in perfect attacking conditions, he is told that he is not as good as Silke or McKaigue! We are lead to believe that either of those two men would have done a better job than tom - my f*ckin b*llx!
If someone were to create a team with the country's best players this year(aka the all star team). You would be crazy to start Silke over Tom.
The all stars are a farce.
The all stars are supposed to be picked on form so tbf Silke probably deserved his award. Yes as a footballer and defender I think Tom Sullivan much better but on form Silke probably deserved his pick. I thought Tom was nt at his best during the league but came back to form during championship. However he got a bit of a runaround from Walsh in the AI final and that cost him his slot. As I've said before a forward can get away with a bad game. A back cannot! If Tom had got an all star I'm sure many from other counties would be pointing to his final display. Jason was our best back this year but if it was him that was marking Walsh he might have lost out too.
Ya Sean Kelly had a great year, lost his all star because of the final. I think we did fine with 7,it's more than enough.
Have we got 8 or more, on many occasions? I doubt many and on those occasions, we probably walked every game. This year were all relatively tight apart from limerick.
"lobbin in, loobin in"[br]"erra for jaysys sake ref, dats a fuckin penalty"[br]"bollox, bollox of a ref"[br]"will ye drive the ball out ye devils ye"[br]"and the ref is standing around, acting the mickey"[br]"christ he is having a miller of a game...& that ball is out into a field of corn"[br]"we buried him in style, oh i think im gonna get sick here or somethin"[br]"the bear is comin out, the bear s comin out"
Ya Sean Kelly had a great year, lost his all star because of the final. I think we did fine with 7,it's more than enough.
Have we got 8 or more, on many occasions? I doubt many and on those occasions, we probably walked every game. This year were all relatively tight apart from limerick.
I don't know what was the highest number we ever got tbh but the strangest was probably Cork hurlers not getting any all star last year after reaching final. Also I think nó Cork forward got a football all star in 2010 eventhough they won all ireland.
Ya Sean Kelly had a great year, lost his all star because of the final. I think we did fine with 7,it's more than enough.
Have we got 8 or more, on many occasions? I doubt many and on those occasions, we probably walked every game. This year were all relatively tight apart from limerick.
I just googled all stars and the highest number for football all stars is nine in one year. Dubs got 9 in 77 and 2020 covid year. We got 9 in 81.I think Limerick Hurlers got 12 last year.
Ya Sean Kelly had a great year, lost his all star because of the final. I think we did fine with 7,it's more than enough.
Have we got 8 or more, on many occasions? I doubt many and on those occasions, we probably walked every game. This year were all relatively tight apart from limerick.
I don't know what was the highest number we ever got tbh but the strangest was probably Cork hurlers not getting any all star last year after reaching final. Also I think nó Cork forward got a football all star in 2010 eventhough they won all ireland.
No Down defender got one either.
Roscommon won Connacht as well and got none.
The biggest omission that year however had to be John Galvin. Missed out to Paddy Keegan, who lets face it, was given a pitty All Star.
I don't know what was the highest number we ever got tbh but the strangest was probably Cork hurlers not getting any all star last year after reaching final. Also I think nó Cork forward got a football all star in 2010 eventhough they won all ireland.
No Down defender got one either.
Roscommon won Connacht as well and got none.
The biggest omission that year however had to be John Galvin. Missed out to Paddy Keegan, who lets face it, was given a pitty All Star.
Tbf both Aidan Walsh and Paddy Keenan were very good during the 2010 championship but yes John Galvin was unlucky to lose o75 alright. Keenan was a powerhouse for Louth but maybe did get a bit of a sympathy vote dye to the Leinster final debacle. He did play well though.
I think it's a joke that Tom Sullivan didnt get an all star.
Liam silke getting one over him is a reflection of what is required to win an all star as a defender.
Liam was given the role of marking seanie in the final. Galway's best defender, sean kelly, marked our best attacker - Dave clifford. Liam silke gets an all star but sean kelly does not. If silke was given the task of marking clifford, sean kelly would have got an all star!
This shows that defenders are rewarded for NOT marking the oppositions main attacker. Same can be said for Chrissy McKaigue. He marked galways weakest full forward in finnerty and got the all star. Put him on Comer that day and no all star!
But when tom sullivan marks the second best attacker in the country, in croke park, in perfect attacking conditions, he is told that he is not as good as Silke or McKaigue! We are lead to believe that either of those two men would have done a better job than tom - my f*ckin b*llx!
If someone were to create a team with the country's best players this year(aka the all star team). You would be crazy to start Silke over Tom.
The all stars are a farce.
You miss the point of the All Stars completely. They are picked on how players play during the year. So if Tom played better in the final (or did not play at all!) he would have got his All Star? Probably, but he didn't. Same with Silke and Kelly, judged on their performances, not their perceived ability. Imaginary, hypothetical situations like if A marked B not C are irrelevant. The real anomaly or inconsistency as others have pointed out is that Comer had a poor final but was deemed to have done enough up to the SF.
I think it's a joke that Tom Sullivan didnt get an all star.
Liam silke getting one over him is a reflection of what is required to win an all star as a defender.
Liam was given the role of marking seanie in the final. Galway's best defender, sean kelly, marked our best attacker - Dave clifford. Liam silke gets an all star but sean kelly does not. If silke was given the task of marking clifford, sean kelly would have got an all star!
This shows that defenders are rewarded for NOT marking the oppositions main attacker. Same can be said for Chrissy McKaigue. He marked galways weakest full forward in finnerty and got the all star. Put him on Comer that day and no all star!
But when tom sullivan marks the second best attacker in the country, in croke park, in perfect attacking conditions, he is told that he is not as good as Silke or McKaigue! We are lead to believe that either of those two men would have done a better job than tom - my f*ckin b*llx!
If someone were to create a team with the country's best players this year(aka the all star team). You would be crazy to start Silke over Tom.
The all stars are a farce.
You miss the point of the All Stars completely. They are picked on how players play during the year. So if Tom played better in the final (or did not play at all!) he would have got his All Star? Probably, but he didn't. Same with Silke and Kelly, judged on their performances, not their perceived ability. Imaginary, hypothetical situations like if A marked B not C are irrelevant. The real anomaly or inconsistency as others have pointed out is that Comer had a poor final but was deemed to have done enough up to the SF.
I suppose our own Seanie Ó Shea had a quiet final too but like Comer had enough credit banked. As I've stated before a forward can get away with more than a back or a Goalie.
I don't know what was the highest number we ever got tbh but the strangest was probably Cork hurlers not getting any all star last year after reaching final. Also I think nó Cork forward got a football all star in 2010 eventhough they won all ireland.
No Down defender got one either.
Roscommon won Connacht as well and got none.
The biggest omission that year however had to be John Galvin. Missed out to Paddy Keegan, who lets face it, was given a pitty All Star.
Down have been involved in 2 All-Star anomalies: When Down won in 1991 they won 4 All-Stars while runners-up Meath won 6. When Down were runners-up in 2010 they won the same number of All-Stars as the winners Cork with 4.
Last year Limerick had one of the most dominant years in hurling winning the semi-final by 11 points and the final by 16 and were rewarded with 12 All-Stars. Kilkenny had a similar year in 2008, Winning games by 9 points, 18 points, 19 points and the final by 23 points and won 9 All-Stars. Kerry had a similar year in 1979, winning games by 36 points, 10 points, 22 points and the final by 11 points but only won 6 All-Stars.
I guess you could say in years where teams win impressively, they are more balanced across the pitch so instead of having 6 or 7 stand out players, all 15 do well, hence less all stars.
cant remember the year, but we won an ireland very very easily and the likes of Gooch didnt get an all star.
"lobbin in, loobin in"[br]"erra for jaysys sake ref, dats a fuckin penalty"[br]"bollox, bollox of a ref"[br]"will ye drive the ball out ye devils ye"[br]"and the ref is standing around, acting the mickey"[br]"christ he is having a miller of a game...& that ball is out into a field of corn"[br]"we buried him in style, oh i think im gonna get sick here or somethin"[br]"the bear is comin out, the bear s comin out"
The biggest omission that year however had to be John Galvin. Missed out to Paddy Keegan, who lets face it, was given a pitty All Star.
Down have been involved in 2 All-Star anomalies: When Down won in 1991 they won 4 All-Stars while runners-up Meath won 6. When Down were runners-up in 2010 they won the same number of All-Stars as the winners Cork with 4.
Last year Limerick had one of the most dominant years in hurling winning the semi-final by 11 points and the final by 16 and were rewarded with 12 All-Stars. Kilkenny had a similar year in 2008, Winning games by 9 points, 18 points, 19 points and the final by 23 points and won 9 All-Stars. Kerry had a similar year in 1979, winning games by 36 points, 10 points, 22 points and the final by 11 points but only won 6 All-Stars.
Strange alright but in Meath s case in 1991 they were involved in the 4 game plus extra time thrillers v Dublin and also drew with Wicklow before beating them in a replay. They played a hell of alot of games that year.
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games.
If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star?
Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year!
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games.
If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star?
Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year!
Well the one I could never get my head around was Brian Whelehan getting a hurling all star full forward in 1998.He played half back but had a cold leading up to all ireland final so in 2nd half Offaly moved him in full forward. He was brilliant and scored 1-5 but how can you get an all star for a half a game. Centre back is a weird position in that I have seen centre backs get man of the match awards that were getting a run around but had good second half s and turned the tide. I have seen it it a few all ireland finals
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games.
If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star?
Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year!
Well the one I could never get my head around was Brian Whelehan getting a hurling all star full forward in 1998.He played half back but had a cold leading up to all ireland final so in 2nd half Offaly moved him in full forward. He was brilliant and scored 1-5 but how can you get an all star for a half a game. Centre back is a weird position in that I have seen centre backs get man of the match awards that were getting a run around but had good second half s and turned the tide. I have seen it it a few all ireland finals
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