Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 30, 2022 1:15:54 GMT
I would argue it's harder to win one now. Back then if your position was particularly weak amongst other counties it was easy to win an All-Star and Pat's position of Left Wing Forward didn't have a glut of talent around making it easier for him to win. These days if there's 6 better players in any position in the forwards you lose out. Basically if your position has lots of talented players in that specific position, it's easier to win one now, but if you're in a position with little competition it was easier back then. Have to disagree with you big time. The fact is that if you are in the top 4 or 5 forwards in the year you will get an all star. Back then you could be 2nd best player in the country and lose out because the best player was in your position. You had to be the best player in your position in the country then. Now you don't. Example Paudie Clifford at 15 would have lost out to Shane Walsh. Comer would gave lost out to David etc. Nowadays as a rule the 6 best forwards get the slot. Not back then. This year Rory Grugan was the only right-half forward nominated. Under the old system he would have won a soft All-Star as his position had very little competition even though he probably wasn't even in the top 15 forwards in Ireland this year. So in those sort of cases it was a lot easier to win one under the old system. |
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 30, 2022 1:27:45 GMT
Out of interest, could anyone here reference any year where the second best footballer did not win an all star? Seems like it would be an anomaly today, and potentially point to a change in how voters select all-stars. Well obviously that's hard as it all about opinions but I recall Mikey Sheehy being brilliant in 1980 for Kerry at number 13.He also scored 1-6 out of 1-9 in our All Ireland win v Roscommon. He was one of the best players that year but was up against Matt Connor of Offaly and Matt got the all star. Mikey did nt. Today both would have been the first two names picked. That was the system back then. Of that 1-6 I believe all the points were pretty easy frees, and for the goal, Pat Spillane had done all the hard work before laying it on for him. No doubt to me that Matt O'Connor, Power, Spillane, the Bomber and Egan had better years than Mikey Sheehy in 80. Even Michael Finneran and Tony McManus could possibly feel more hard done by than Sheehy for not getting All-Stars. |
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Post by glengael on Oct 30, 2022 12:49:38 GMT
Also under the old system, any player who was sent off during the yr wasn't eligible for consideration. Different rules on fhe field of play in those times I know, no colour cards etc but that waS the rule.
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Aodhan
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Post by Aodhan on Oct 30, 2022 20:26:42 GMT
Players back then were nominated in one position but often they were nominated in positions they didn't play in if there was a top class rival in the same position. Bomber Liston won an all-star at centre forward in the mid 80s. Matt Connor, I think, won 2 in the half forward line. I think he was picked half forward in 82 to accommodate the entire Kerry full forward line. it was 1984 when Bomber won his All Star at center forward. He played 6 league game at that position not including the final when Kerry beat Galway. He didn't start due to injury but came on center forward with Ogie moving to the wing for Timmy O'Dowd. '84 was Bomber's best year for Kerry, he was also outstanding at 11. Back then the league was also considered.
In 1972 a complete unknown, to me at any rate, won an All star at corner forward, Armagh's Paddy Moriarty. Armagh did not even get to the Ulster final. Did they even win a championship game, not sure. Paddy turned out to become one of Armagh's greatests ever players and won another All Star in 1977 at center back. A story like Paddy's would never happen today
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Post by tarmac23 on Oct 31, 2022 18:22:03 GMT
I think it's a joke that Tom Sullivan didnt get an all star.
Liam silke getting one over him is a reflection of what is required to win an all star as a defender.
Liam was given the role of marking seanie in the final. Galway's best defender, sean kelly, marked our best attacker - Dave clifford. Liam silke gets an all star but sean kelly does not. If silke was given the task of marking clifford, sean kelly would have got an all star!
This shows that defenders are rewarded for NOT marking the oppositions main attacker. Same can be said for Chrissy McKaigue. He marked galways weakest full forward in finnerty and got the all star. Put him on Comer that day and no all star!
But when tom sullivan marks the second best attacker in the country, in croke park, in perfect attacking conditions, he is told that he is not as good as Silke or McKaigue! We are lead to believe that either of those two men would have done a better job than tom - my f*ckin b*llx!
If someone were to create a team with the country's best players this year(aka the all star team). You would be crazy to start Silke over Tom.
The all stars are a farce.
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Post by homerj on Oct 31, 2022 22:51:54 GMT
Ya Sean Kelly had a great year, lost his all star because of the final. I think we did fine with 7,it's more than enough.
Have we got 8 or more, on many occasions? I doubt many and on those occasions, we probably walked every game. This year were all relatively tight apart from limerick.
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Post by hurlingman on Nov 1, 2022 8:27:59 GMT
Ya Sean Kelly had a great year, lost his all star because of the final. I think we did fine with 7,it's more than enough. Have we got 8 or more, on many occasions? I doubt many and on those occasions, we probably walked every game. This year were all relatively tight apart from limerick. I don't know what was the highest number we ever got tbh but the strangest was probably Cork hurlers not getting any all star last year after reaching final. Also I think nó Cork forward got a football all star in 2010 eventhough they won all ireland. No Down defender got one either. Roscommon won Connacht as well and got none. The biggest omission that year however had to be John Galvin. Missed out to Paddy Keegan, who lets face it, was given a pitty All Star. |
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Post by OnTheForty on Nov 2, 2022 14:21:29 GMT
I think it's a joke that Tom Sullivan didnt get an all star. Liam silke getting one over him is a reflection of what is required to win an all star as a defender. Liam was given the role of marking seanie in the final. Galway's best defender, sean kelly, marked our best attacker - Dave clifford. Liam silke gets an all star but sean kelly does not. If silke was given the task of marking clifford, sean kelly would have got an all star! This shows that defenders are rewarded for NOT marking the oppositions main attacker. Same can be said for Chrissy McKaigue. He marked galways weakest full forward in finnerty and got the all star. Put him on Comer that day and no all star! But when tom sullivan marks the second best attacker in the country, in croke park, in perfect attacking conditions, he is told that he is not as good as Silke or McKaigue! We are lead to believe that either of those two men would have done a better job than tom - my f*ckin b*llx! If someone were to create a team with the country's best players this year(aka the all star team). You would be crazy to start Silke over Tom. The all stars are a farce. You miss the point of the All Stars completely. They are picked on how players play during the year. So if Tom played better in the final (or did not play at all!) he would have got his All Star? Probably, but he didn't. Same with Silke and Kelly, judged on their performances, not their perceived ability. Imaginary, hypothetical situations like if A marked B not C are irrelevant. The real anomaly or inconsistency as others have pointed out is that Comer had a poor final but was deemed to have done enough up to the SF. |
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Nov 3, 2022 12:47:14 GMT
I don't know what was the highest number we ever got tbh but the strangest was probably Cork hurlers not getting any all star last year after reaching final. Also I think nó Cork forward got a football all star in 2010 eventhough they won all ireland. No Down defender got one either. Roscommon won Connacht as well and got none. The biggest omission that year however had to be John Galvin. Missed out to Paddy Keegan, who lets face it, was given a pitty All Star. Down have been involved in 2 All-Star anomalies: When Down won in 1991 they won 4 All-Stars while runners-up Meath won 6. When Down were runners-up in 2010 they won the same number of All-Stars as the winners Cork with 4. Last year Limerick had one of the most dominant years in hurling winning the semi-final by 11 points and the final by 16 and were rewarded with 12 All-Stars. Kilkenny had a similar year in 2008, Winning games by 9 points, 18 points, 19 points and the final by 23 points and won 9 All-Stars. Kerry had a similar year in 1979, winning games by 36 points, 10 points, 22 points and the final by 11 points but only won 6 All-Stars. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 3, 2022 13:15:40 GMT
I guess you could say in years where teams win impressively, they are more balanced across the pitch so instead of having 6 or 7 stand out players, all 15 do well, hence less all stars.
cant remember the year, but we won an ireland very very easily and the likes of Gooch didnt get an all star.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Nov 3, 2022 17:06:30 GMT
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games.
If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star?
Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year!
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 3, 2022 21:35:57 GMT
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games. If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star? Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year! Well the one I could never get my head around was Brian Whelehan getting a hurling all star full forward in 1998.He played half back but had a cold leading up to all ireland final so in 2nd half Offaly moved him in full forward. He was brilliant and scored 1-5 but how can you get an all star for a half a game. Centre back is a weird position in that I have seen centre backs get man of the match awards that were getting a run around but had good second half s and turned the tide. I have seen it it a few all ireland finals I felt Darragh deserved on in 1997. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 3, 2022 23:04:19 GMT
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games. If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star? Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year! Kildale and Meath got 5 between them, Brolly got one too for Derry. Wouldn't happen now, especially when neither of them 3 even won a provincial title! We won the league that year also and Fla and Darragh were both deserving of All Stars for sure. |
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 4, 2022 8:39:06 GMT
Another anomaly was in 1997, when Glen Ryan and Trevor Giles both won All-Stars even though, essentially their only involvement of note in that year's Championship was the Kildare-Meath trilogy in which they were marking each other for the 3 games. If one player came out in the ascendancy in that battle over the 3 games, than the loser wouldn't deserve an All-Star while if it was a 50:50 battle than surely getting 50:50 isn't enough for either to reach the elite status of All-Star? Or maybe I'm just bitter because the net result was Liam O'Flaherty didn't win a deserved All-Star that year! Kildale and Meath got 5 between them, Brolly got one too for Derry. Wouldn't happen now, especially when neither of them 3 even won a provincial title! We won the league that year also and Fla and Darragh were both deserving of All Stars for sure. The prevailing view in the media before that final was that Pat Fallon would dominate midfield and provide the platform for a Mayo win. It was Darragh who provided the platform. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 4, 2022 10:33:10 GMT
i watched that final a few weeks back, my word Mayo were absolutely awful.
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Post by homerj on Nov 5, 2022 21:18:52 GMT
i watched that final a few weeks back, my word Mayo were absolutely awful. Have nt watched it in years but as bad as Mayo were they had chance after chance in 2nd half but kept missing. We did our best to keep Mayo in it but they could nt help themselves. The were shocking for entire game. Took until injury time for half to get their first point from play I think. One of the worst all ireland performances in recent history. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 6, 2022 1:17:43 GMT
Ciaran Mcdonald, for me, is one of the most over rated players of all time.
Lived off 1 game, by and large never produced it when it mattered. Was awful in every game he played against Kerry,which during his time playing, were the big games that really mattered for Mayo.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 6, 2022 7:10:06 GMT
Ciaran Mcdonald, for me, is one of the most over rated players of all time. Lived off 1 game, by and large never produced it when it mattered. Was awful in every game he played against Kerry,which during his time playing, were the big games that really mattered for Mayo. Lovely footballer to watch when he had space but I agree that he was overrated. In the GAA a big game against Dublin counts triple due to the attention on it and a big moment in a big game against Dublin had a further multiplier on it. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 6, 2022 8:45:41 GMT
Ciaran Mcdonald, for me, is one of the most over rated players of all time. Lived off 1 game, by and large never produced it when it mattered. Was awful in every game he played against Kerry,which during his time playing, were the big games that really mattered for Mayo. Im afraid I can't agree with you Homer. Because I liked his style I remember alot of his games. Yes he was poor in 97 v Kerry but he was a kid then. In 04 he kicked a brilliant point v Kerry in all ireland final. In 05 quarter although beaten again he was fairly good v Kerry kicking 6 points. In 06 he was well beaten by Aidan Ó Mahoney alright hut produced some great scores in croke park v Dubs etc. For me he was class. I dunno, those 2 great points tend to get attention but outside of that,his career was average for the majority. Imagine kerry players being rated over scoring 2 points? Wouldn't happen! |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Nov 6, 2022 11:29:23 GMT
Jez, if we are to start discussing the volume of over rated players that received the coveted gaa gong than we could be here a while, you know similarly I often looked at the all star selections and looked at a certain player and wondered would I stop with what we had on our own starting XV, invariably it was the wing forward berth and our own very much underrated Donnqchadh Walsh at the time, more often than not the Cromane man would hold his own.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 6, 2022 14:07:33 GMT
Everyone said Donncha Walsh was so underrated, he was overrated in the end!
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 6, 2022 14:10:44 GMT
I dunno, those 2 great points tend to get attention but outside of that,his career was average for the majority. Imagine kerry players being rated over scoring 2 points? Wouldn't happen! Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. You are wasting your time trying to convince people here. Kerry players are underrated for the most part with other counties players overrated as of course Kerry have no media profile😂 |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 6, 2022 14:34:41 GMT
There is a former Dublin player whose profile is similar to McDonald.
Deeply talented and stylish, and to be honest, an outstanding player, but will not go down as one of the all time greats (no matter how many TikToks people make).
The Dublin player in question is behind at least five of the recent Dublin greats in the eyes of most Kerry supporters.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 6, 2022 14:39:13 GMT
There is a former Dublin player whose profile is similar to McDonald. Deeply talented and stylish, and to be honest, an outstanding player, but will not go down as one of the all time greats (no matter how many TikToks people make). The Dublin player in question is behind at least five of the recent Dublin greats in the eyes of most Kerry supporters. Is he now an RTE pundit? A marauding run followed by 10 mins of nothing was how I once heard him described |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 6, 2022 15:32:06 GMT
There is a former Dublin player whose profile is similar to McDonald. Deeply talented and stylish, and to be honest, an outstanding player, but will not go down as one of the all time greats (no matter how many TikToks people make). The Dublin player in question is behind at least five of the recent Dublin greats in the eyes of most Kerry supporters. Is he now an RTE pundit? A marauding run followed by 10 mins of nothing was how I once heard him described Too much of a bad-boy for RTÉ. |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 6, 2022 15:43:27 GMT
You are wasting your time trying to convince people here. Kerry players are underrated for the most part with other counties players overrated as of course Kerry have no media profile😂 Blacksheep I can't agree with you either. I know for a fact many Kerry players are spoken of very highly in many parts of the country and Dublin in particular. Most Dubs always mention Micko Connell Mikey Sheehy and Maurice and now they on about Clifford's brilliance. Even Billy Morgan (who has no great love of Kerry) always praises Kerry players and if you read Mickey Harte s books etc you will see that they always held Kerry in such high esteem. I thought the sarcasm was clear from my post but obviously not! Anyway great we have you to extol the virtues of other counties |
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Post by blacksheep21 on Nov 6, 2022 15:45:38 GMT
There is a former Dublin player whose profile is similar to McDonald. Deeply talented and stylish, and to be honest, an outstanding player, but will not go down as one of the all time greats (no matter how many TikToks people make). The Dublin player in question is behind at least five of the recent Dublin greats in the eyes of most Kerry supporters. Is he now an RTE pundit? A marauding run followed by 10 mins of nothing was how I once heard him described No, sounds like second best player with the initials DC to me. |
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Post by homerj on Nov 6, 2022 18:16:14 GMT
I dunno, those 2 great points tend to get attention but outside of that,his career was average for the majority. Imagine kerry players being rated over scoring 2 points? Wouldn't happen! Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. Some people do have him as an all time great!! Mayo slagged him for years and it was only when he retired, it started. A player who got better the less he played. Give me a Declan Brown any day of the week |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 6, 2022 22:43:22 GMT
Some people do have him as an all time great!! Mayo slagged him for years and it was only when he retired, it started. A player who got better the less he played. Give me a Declan Brown any day of the week Mayo sagged him in the early years and he gave up for a year due to the abuse but had a good few years after that. Liam McHale felt the wrath of Mayo fans too on a few occasions. I do recall our own Maurice getting a bit of abuse around 94/95 for not living up to his potential. 2 years later he was Poty. No county has the monopoly on giving players a hard time. So what your saying is that maybe we’re not the roughest type of f*ckin animals? Some others are, at least, as rough? |
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exiled
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Post by exiled on Nov 6, 2022 23:31:50 GMT
Homer I did nt say he was one of the all time greats. I said I admired him as a player and I liked his style. I think the same of Marty Clarke (Down). However I do think if he was with another county he would be more highly thought of but that my personal opinion. Some people do have him as an all time great!! Mayo slagged him for years and it was only when he retired, it started. A player who got better the less he played. Give me a Declan Brown any day of the week After living here for 30yrs I can definitely state that Mcdonald wasn't derided as you say. I think this is your personal opinion. In fact I know a lot of Kerry fans who rate him highly.I remember how I've been slagged so much by my Tyrone friends for our inability to beat them. The thing is it takes a team to win not just 1 man. |
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