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Post by dc84 on Sept 17, 2019 10:16:38 GMT
Dublin aren't going anywhere either it will be some battle to try and win anything in the next 5 years a few ages will show what I mean. 1.John small 26 2.mcaffrey 25 3.Murchan 23 4.kilkenny 25 5.Fenton 26 6.Howard 22 7.scully 25 8.oCallaghan 24 9.mannion 26 That's 9 starters from Saturday that are 26 or younger including most of their best bets for all stars. Cluxton is the only starter likely to walk away, where the dip might come if they don't regenerate (which they probably will) is when Cooper (29),McCarthy (29),fitzsimons (30) and rock (30) leave that's 3 very good defenders and the free taker gone. Of course they have added Murchan and can always play Howard at midfield or half back if required which will negate the loss to an extent. at least we wont have to read bullsh1t posts any longer that this is an once in a generation Dublin team and when Bryan Cullen, Alan Brogan, Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn etc they will go into decline. I never bought that line. I do agree that Cluxton will be hard to replace however. Yeah thats a load of bull alright that team 2010-14 is gone this is Fenton,Kilkenny,o Callaghan, Howard and mannions team now and has been for two years at least if we are waiting for those lads to go we will be waiting a long time! . They had another good u20 team this year and always should given the numbers,that they will get a couple out of and other lads that are around the panel now, McHugh,paddy small,Byrne,bugler will all add something. Not being overally pessimistic but they are as likely to win another 3 or 4 in a row, we might pull one or two out in next 5/6 years but it's hard to see anyone else doing it in all honesty unless cork with their big playing population build on the minor and u20 success for the next few years. |
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 17, 2019 10:24:23 GMT
Lots of positive from the year, but lots of areas of improvement - tackling, ball retention and fitness/energy conservation the main priorities.
League should be used for experimentation of tactics, and squad rotation. Bring in a few from u20s and possibly Dylan Geaney from minors.
Presuming Kerry win Munster they'll be playing Dublin in the Super 8s in an actual neutral venue, nice opportunity to end Dublin's unbeaten run!
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Post by dc84 on Sept 17, 2019 10:41:09 GMT
Lots of positive from the year, but lots of areas of improvement - tackling, ball retention and fitness/energy conservation the main priorities. League should be used for experimentation of tactics, and squad rotation. Bring in a few from u20s and possibly Dylan Geaney from minors. Presuming Kerry win Munster they'll be playing Dublin in the Super 8s in an actual neutral venue, nice opportunity to end Dublin's unbeaten run! How do you know it will be a neutral venue? I'd say it won't they might change it for 2021 but will hardly when they are guaranteed 82,300 in croke park for dublin kerry |
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 17, 2019 10:51:40 GMT
Lots of positive from the year, but lots of areas of improvement - tackling, ball retention and fitness/energy conservation the main priorities. League should be used for experimentation of tactics, and squad rotation. Bring in a few from u20s and possibly Dylan Geaney from minors. Presuming Kerry win Munster they'll be playing Dublin in the Super 8s in an actual neutral venue, nice opportunity to end Dublin's unbeaten run! How do you know it will be a neutral venue? I'd say it won't they might change it for 2021 but will hardly when they are guaranteed 82,300 in croke park for dublin kerry |
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Post by dc84 on Sept 17, 2019 10:56:50 GMT
Thanks! still has to be voted on in February and nothing would surprise me less than if it was defeated. It would only effect us and possibly cork as the "super 8s" will hardly be kept if the 2 tier goes ahead? |
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Post by colinsworth1 on Sept 17, 2019 11:35:33 GMT
I posted yesterday that we scored at a 32% clip from
Opportunities in second half I’m seeing today’s paper saying we scored at
27% rate in the second half . Almost all good proper shot selections comfortably in scoring range 27%. ?!
No more in depth analysis required let’s look at the obvious first .
We obsess about defensive coaching Donie Buckley etc and that’s vital but have we a designated offensive coach / skills coach /kicking
Mick Bohan from Dublin apparently is one of the kicking and skills gurus in Dublin and has worked with the men’s team too setting structure s in place
Do we have the equivalent point person in our camp if not why not?
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Post by dc84 on Sept 17, 2019 11:40:27 GMT
I posted yesterday that we scored at a 32% clip from Opportunities in second half I’m seeing today’s paper saying we scored at 27% rate in the second half . Almost all good proper shot selections comfortably in scoring range 27%. ?! No more in depth analysis required let’s look at the obvious first . We obsess about defensive coaching Donie Buckley etc and that’s vital but have we a designated offensive coach / skills coach /kicking Mick Bohan from Dublin apparently is one of the kicking and skills gurus in Dublin and has worked with the men’s team too setting structure s in place Do we have the equivalent point person in our camp if not why not? Maurice Fitzgerald |
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Post by crokes86 on Sept 17, 2019 12:01:04 GMT
Dublin will probably win it again next year.
If Cluxton retires he will be the only player from the starting 15 .
They’re still young . Comerford will replace him.
They won the U21 All-Ireland in 2017.
Murchan Howard O’Callaghan and Paddy Small were on that team.
They still have players to bring through from that so they will be younger and stronger next year.
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Post by crokes86 on Sept 17, 2019 12:02:52 GMT
Comerford was the keeper on that team
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Post by oldschool on Sept 17, 2019 12:06:56 GMT
I posted yesterday that we scored at a 32% clip from Opportunities in second half I’m seeing today’s paper saying we scored at 27% rate in the second half . Almost all good proper shot selections comfortably in scoring range 27%. ?! No more in depth analysis required let’s look at the obvious first . We obsess about defensive coaching Donie Buckley etc and that’s vital but have we a designated offensive coach / skills coach /kicking Mick Bohan from Dublin apparently is one of the kicking and skills gurus in Dublin and has worked with the men’s team too setting structure s in place Do we have the equivalent point person in our camp if not why not? Maurice Fitzgerald Agree and while we’re at it maybe we could coach forwards how to take a goal in one on one situations with the goalie. Never did I see Colm Cooper blasting the ball straight at the keeper. What has happened to the sidestep?. |
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Post by buck02 on Sept 17, 2019 12:19:08 GMT
I havnt been able to put myself through watching the game again and have seen some great analysis and general tributes to both teams so I dont have much to add. I think 2019 will bring on this team massively - obviously we want to win but sometimes you have to lose one to win one and for a new, young team (and new management team) I hope they can harness the harsh lessons from the losses in Croke Park this year and use it to their advantage in the years to come.
Just on a point made above, people seem to think Donie Buckley's role is confined to defensive coaching which is off the mark from what I have heard.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 17, 2019 13:19:01 GMT
When you play a better team it is a question of what cracks open and if it isn't one thing it's another. We won some kick-outs by breaking 50/50 balls, we went a bit for that but it cost us also. Our press-up worked in the 1st game but they responded and punished.
Clux was adamant in his acceptance speech they will be around next year so I don't think he will be going anywhere himself.
Can other counties close the gap, bearing in mind it could widen? Are we playing a constant catch-up here? That's what happens when you have an innovator in your midst - Kerry Group's competitors worried of 'what will they think of next' so you see the similarity, and the more successful you become the more firepower you develop and so forge further ahead, a vicious circle really. And I wouldn't waste breath on splitting Dublin - it will never happen and the drawn game put further paid to that - they will say they would have lost so being punished for being good. Then add to that global forces and Brexit that overheats the Dublin economy while rural Ireland now faces recession. Money is a big factor and if it ain't there it can't filter down. Some might say that your average Dub is being pushed out with the spiraling cost of living but money will be found to hang onto promising talent and the commute would be no further than most other counties anyway.
My fear is not so much for the likes of ourselves but for say Div 2 counties and who have no realistic chance of ever lifting a Sam - imagine if they had then what magic we would have? The challenge is to level the paying field and, ah let's leave it for another day, 'tiz a bit soon yet!
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 17, 2019 13:49:15 GMT
Cluxton definitely not going anywhere with him one All-Ireland away from equaling the Kerry quintet on 8 All-Irelands, or even be targetting Shefflin's 10 in a few years. Fenton and O'Callaghan will probably surpass his haul.
Speaking of goalies, how is Shane Ryan getting less of a rating than Cluxton in some media outlets for last Saturday?
Shane Ryan was 100% from kickouts and made 2 great saves, Cluxton made one decent save and missed two kickouts.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Sept 17, 2019 13:59:08 GMT
The first thing to go in a keeper is the ability to get down on the ground ball. Kerry tested Cluxton twice with low daisy cutters...both in the drawn game and both beat Cluxton. Paul Geaney's effort was blocked by John McCarty's knees and Killian Spillane's effort didn't even produce a dive from Cluxton. That's why So'B's effort was so disappointing to me...low foot pass-type shot would have been a goal almost certainly.
The last thing to go from great keepers is their presence, that intangible, immeasurable thing that they bring to their team mates. Cluxton will have that for a while more, but time is starting to catch up on aspects of his game. Not enough to have Gavin drop him, mind you, but they will work to cover the weaknesses as they only can.
I must watch the game again and count how many mistakes Dublin made...could be a record low number for any game.
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Post by boherbee on Sept 17, 2019 14:05:33 GMT
I posted yesterday that we scored at a 32% clip from Opportunities in second half I’m seeing today’s paper saying we scored at 27% rate in the second half . Almost all good proper shot selections comfortably in scoring range 27%. ?! No more in depth analysis required let’s look at the obvious first . We obsess about defensive coaching Donie Buckley etc and that’s vital but have we a designated offensive coach / skills coach /kicking Mick Bohan from Dublin apparently is one of the kicking and skills gurus in Dublin and has worked with the men’s team too setting structure s in place Do we have the equivalent point person in our camp if not why not? Dublin score more at the end of a match because of their superior fitness levels. It’s not easy to knock over points when you are exhausted, battered and bruised. |
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Post by dc84 on Sept 17, 2019 14:33:38 GMT
I posted yesterday that we scored at a 32% clip from Opportunities in second half I’m seeing today’s paper saying we scored at 27% rate in the second half . Almost all good proper shot selections comfortably in scoring range 27%. ?! No more in depth analysis required let’s look at the obvious first . We obsess about defensive coaching Donie Buckley etc and that’s vital but have we a designated offensive coach / skills coach /kicking Mick Bohan from Dublin apparently is one of the kicking and skills gurus in Dublin and has worked with the men’s team too setting structure s in place Do we have the equivalent point person in our camp if not why not? Dublin score more at the end of a match because of their superior fitness levels. It’s not easy to knock over points when you are exhausted, battered and bruised. This is key, we are at least the equals of dublin in pure kicking ability, but that matters for nought if you are too tired to kick the thing! |
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 17, 2019 14:48:32 GMT
Cluxton definitely not going anywhere with him one All-Ireland away from equaling the Kerry quintet on 8 All-Irelands, or even be targetting Shefflin's 10 in a few years. Fenton and O'Callaghan will probably surpass his haul. Speaking of goalies, how is Shane Ryan getting less of a rating than Cluxton in some media outlets for last Saturday? Shane Ryan was 100% from kickouts and made 2 great saves, Cluxton made one decent save and missed two kickouts. Shane for brilliant. The debate is over now surely. |
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Post by Kingdomson on Sept 17, 2019 14:59:23 GMT
Maybe the mind plays tricks but I can't remember being so disappointed and so down at losing an All Ireland final. It’s a mix of not ceasing the opportunity the first day that probably rubs salt in an open wound and the notion that by general consensus, the mantle of greatest team of modern times now lays elsewhere and that cuts deep. I can’t imagine how hurt the players and management must be feeling? Losing recent finals is a habit we have to break ASAP, and I’m hoping we get another great run in the league in 2020 and collect a national title. Extending our place at the head of the roll of honour is a priority and a real challenge going into a new decade.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Sept 17, 2019 15:02:23 GMT
I think it’s a misconception that we are better kickers than Dublin the numbers
Don’t back it up . Because your born and play your club football in Kerry doesn’t automatically make your team better shooters . Like everything skill it needs to be worked on
Stephan Curry the best scoring shooter in the NBA takes 200 shots a day in practice. I don’t see the evidence of scoring practice on the playing fields goal s or points ?
I think if even half of those missed ones went over you’d have seen a lot more sprightly team with scores level at the closing stages
Coming into the game we were the younger hungrier side now in hindsight we’re not fit enough . Let’s be careful not to use the fitness as a cop out .
But if you’re defending a keep ball situation from every single kick out I could see where it’s more draining on the team without the ball not just physically but mentally too . That was the Choice we made
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 17, 2019 15:25:12 GMT
I think it is hilarious people talking about Dublin blocking Kerry players at the second half throw in... did they not see Jack Barry holding the two lads?!
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Post by veteran on Sept 17, 2019 15:33:28 GMT
A lot of people I have spoken with since the match have been very critical of David Moran over the mistake at the throw in at the start of the second half. Admittedly, he should probably have tried to catch it but he was very badly served by his defence subsequent to that “error”. When young Murchin got away the entire defence opened up wide as a gate , following their men to the cliff edge like lemmings as the crafty Dublin forwards created that wide open space. Clearly, one of the defenders should have read what was happening and advanced to Murchin. Of course it would mean having to leave their own man unmarked which may have resulted in a goal in any case. But there would have been a possibility of the pass being misdirected or the receiver fumbling the ball etc this slowing matters down. I suppose that displayed naivety resulting from the lack of experience at that level. The point I am making is that is unfair to lumber David with the entire responsibility as a lot of my associates are doing . It is also conceivable that David would have got to him if the steps rule was applied with any degree of accuracy. Either way , it was the decisive moment in the game.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 17, 2019 16:11:54 GMT
I think it’s a misconception that we are better kickers than Dublin the numbers Don’t back it up . Because your born and play your club football in Kerry doesn’t automatically make your team better shooters . Like everything skill it needs to be worked on Stephan Curry the best scoring shooter in the NBA takes 200 shots a day in practice. I don’t see the evidence of scoring practice on the playing fields goal s or points ? I think if even half of those missed ones went over you’d have seen a lot more sprightly team with scores level at the closing stages Coming into the game we were the younger hungrier side now in hindsight we’re not fit enough . Let’s be careful not to use the fitness as a cop out . But if you’re defending a keep ball situation from every single kick out I could see where it’s more draining on the team without the ball not just physically but mentally too . That was the Choice we made You need to read a book called 'Bounce' by a Matthew Syed - it contends that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to get to the top, Bernard Brogan read it! It is particularly interesting from a GAA perspective given that we probably have the most ethnically ingrained code of all sports hence the irony in the read and which hits you early on. Ah yes, all this Kerry Ingredient crack again - well yes and no, and while my take was poetic, it certainly resonates with the reality and haven't I the scalps of a few right experts to prove it! So take a player doing an average 40 hours a week for say 25 weeks per year = 1,000 hours x 10 years = 10,000. Now put that in the context of the pipeline - at what age has a fella clocked up the 10,000? Now do the sums for the younger Kerry v the older Dublin panel and you begin to get it. As quality is key, what 'adjusted' quality hours will the respective teams clock up in the coming year? Ah there are a lot of variables here but it is a useful tool in principle, maybe in theory! There are a few key learning points in a book that isn't the easiest of reads and partly because the author probably knows nil about a culture that might have him rethink some of his assertions! Agus nil aon baint agam, well apart from endeavoring to make a positive contribution here. |
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 17, 2019 16:19:24 GMT
A lot of people I have spoken with since the match have been very critical of David Moran over the mistake at the throw in at the start of the second half. Admittedly, he should probably have tried to catch it but he was very badly served by his defence subsequent to that “error”. When young Murchin got away the entire defence opened up wide as a gate , following their men to the cliff edge like lemmings as the crafty Dublin forwards created that wide open space. Clearly, one of the defenders should have read what was happening and advanced to Murchin. Of course it would mean having to leave their own man unmarked which may have resulted in a goal in any case. But there would have been a possibility of the pass being misdirected or the receiver fumbling the ball etc this slowing matters down. I suppose that displayed naivety resulting from the lack of experience at that level. The point I am making is that is unfair to lumber David with the entire responsibility as a lot of my associates are doing . It is also conceivable that David would have got to him if the steps rule was applied with any degree of accuracy. Either way , it was the decisive moment in the game. Of course the fact is that if we were better then it probably wouldn't have happened, e.g. David mightn't be forced to punch, Murchan's marker might have challenged him ... there are numerous ways it could have come unstuck, and while we also had our moments, the better team had more of them and it is only a matter of how the better team will win. David was unfortunate to be criticized just as Murchan was fortunate in that the ball came his way - the luck of the game - luck and lack of it! No Moran owes anybody anything, well not on their GAA account anyway! PS Hadn't see this at time of writing - GAA Hall Of Fame For Kerry Footballer |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 16:22:08 GMT
I think it is hilarious people talking about Dublin blocking Kerry players at the second half throw in... did they not see Jack Barry holding the two lads?! As always, great to get the Dublin perspective |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 16:33:44 GMT
A lot of people I have spoken with since the match have been very critical of David Moran over the mistake at the throw in at the start of the second half. Admittedly, he should probably have tried to catch it but he was very badly served by his defence subsequent to that “error”. When young Murchin got away the entire defence opened up wide as a gate , following their men to the cliff edge like lemmings as the crafty Dublin forwards created that wide open space. Clearly, one of the defenders should have read what was happening and advanced to Murchin. Of course it would mean having to leave their own man unmarked which may have resulted in a goal in any case. But there would have been a possibility of the pass being misdirected or the receiver fumbling the ball etc this slowing matters down. I suppose that displayed naivety resulting from the lack of experience at that level. The point I am making is that is unfair to lumber David with the entire responsibility as a lot of my associates are doing . It is also conceivable that David would have got to him if the steps rule was applied with any degree of accuracy. Either way , it was the decisive moment in the game. I would agree with all this except David did get to him and could have fouled him if he chose to. Easy thing to say with hindsight. |
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Post by buck02 on Sept 17, 2019 16:37:08 GMT
A lot of people I have spoken with since the match have been very critical of David Moran over the mistake at the throw in at the start of the second half. Admittedly, he should probably have tried to catch it but he was very badly served by his defence subsequent to that “error”. When young Murchin got away the entire defence opened up wide as a gate , following their men to the cliff edge like lemmings as the crafty Dublin forwards created that wide open space. Clearly, one of the defenders should have read what was happening and advanced to Murchin. Of course it would mean having to leave their own man unmarked which may have resulted in a goal in any case. But there would have been a possibility of the pass being misdirected or the receiver fumbling the ball etc this slowing matters down. I suppose that displayed naivety resulting from the lack of experience at that level. The point I am making is that is unfair to lumber David with the entire responsibility as a lot of my associates are doing . It is also conceivable that David would have got to him if the steps rule was applied with any degree of accuracy. Either way , it was the decisive moment in the game. Also happened for McCaffreys goal in the first game. Again a learning curve for our young defenders. |
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Post by veteran on Sept 17, 2019 16:37:29 GMT
I think it is hilarious people talking about Dublin blocking Kerry players at the second half throw in... did they not see Jack Barry holding the two lads?! Sadly , this holding/jostling at the throw in has become an accepted part of the game. It is of course ridiculous , happening in full view of the referee as it does . Now, that is different to the subtle blocking/screening which is creeping into the game. Perhaps, this illegality will also become acceptable or perhaps has already. It is very difficult for the referee to spot but in essence it is a black card offence. However, the two “offences”should not be confused. The jostling at the throw in should warrant a yellow card and that might put an end to that nonsense. The screening/blocking is a recognised offence in rugby and is frequently picked up by the referee. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 17, 2019 16:54:14 GMT
I think it is hilarious people talking about Dublin blocking Kerry players at the second half throw in... did they not see Jack Barry holding the two lads?! As always, great to get the Dublin perspective Do you not have your own eyes? |
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Post by colinsworth1 on Sept 17, 2019 17:22:31 GMT
I think it is hilarious people talking about Dublin blocking Kerry players at the second half throw in... did they not see Jack Barry holding the two lads?! Sadly , this holding/jostling at the throw in has become an accepted part of the game. It is of course ridiculous , happening in full view of the referee as it does . Now, that is different to the subtle blocking/screening which is creeping into the game. Perhaps, this illegality will also become acceptable or perhaps has already. It is very difficult for the referee to spot but in essence it is a black card offence. However, the two “offences”should not be confused. The jostling at the throw in should warrant a yellow card and that might put an end to that nonsense. The screening/blocking is a recognised offence in rugby and is frequently picked up by the referee. You’re right it’s funny how Jack Barry drove at the Dublin midfielder like Moss Keane in his prime ! shame the ref didn’t call that one . It’s is ridiculous really but becoming normal! But from the throw in looks like both teams had a set play some cynicism in both plans Dublin’s set play had a goal as its target Our plan seemed to be to smash the ball down to our forwards . |
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Post by dc84 on Sept 17, 2019 18:06:23 GMT
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