|
|
Post by beebee91 on Sept 16, 2019 21:19:15 GMT
beebee91 Kerry have won all except one in Croke Park. Kerry are not allowed to play all their championship games in Killarney as if they were the case then many would rightly speak of bias. Dublin are afforded this privelege and this means that they will never develop a large county ground. And why would when they can simply roll into Croke Park anytime they choose. Being able to play at home all the time puts the Dublin players at a huge advantage when it comes to preparation. [br Although I understand where u are coming from; the Dublin team do not simply just roll in to Croke part as you put it whenever they fancy! They train in DCU and Parnell park which is their home ground. My point is that if Dublin always have this advantage then why have they not been as successful or even more successful than Kerry?? How many times have Kerry beaten Dublin in Croke park?? Or many many other teams. The only thing about Croke park being of advantage is that the supporters always always show up. Yes, it’s easier for most to do this in terms of travel, but hundreds of the fans, if not thousands travel all over Ireland for league matches, myself and all of my family and several friends included. Dublin won, it’s a bitter pill for many Kerry fans and let’s be honest, most of the rest of the country to swallow, but please stop with all the excuses. It’s just coming across as sour grapes at this stage and it belittles the insane amount of work that this team have put in over the years. No amount of home advantage can be the reason that this team are so successful; if that was the case why did they not win an All Ireland in 16 years or for many many years during the history of the game? Kerry are a superb side and had they won on Saturday I would be so disappointed and dejected but I would have put my hands up to say well done if they were the better team. Dublin were that winning team on Saturday and as awful as that is for so many to accept, they deserved to win based on skill, ability and overall excellent management and teamwork |
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 16, 2019 21:22:22 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by john4 on Sept 16, 2019 21:29:07 GMT
Just watched game again and taking the drawn game into account.How many Kerry players,especially defenders went down with cramp.Suppose we have to give our S and C dept the benefit of it only being year 1 of their program. But unusual to see lads cramping 10 minutes before time. The running at full speed that was done in the first half Saturday is incomparable to anything we've seen all year. Dublin broke from their usual approach the last day and spent a lot of energy early in the game. They were banking on getting a good start on us and hoping to stay there. I honestly think that did they not get that goal we could have wore them down. That put them in the position of control. Like an arm wrestle, you only have to have 5° advantage at the top of the arc to be in a totally dominant position. |
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 16, 2019 21:29:55 GMT
beebee91 Kerry have won all except one in Croke Park. Kerry are not allowed to play all their championship games in Killarney as if they were the case then many would rightly speak of bias. Dublin are afforded this privelege and this means that they will never develop a large county ground. And why would when they can simply roll into Croke Park anytime they choose. Being able to play at home all the time puts the Dublin players at a huge advantage when it comes to preparation. [br Although I understand where u are coming from; the Dublin team do not simply just roll in to Croke part as you put it whenever they fancy! They train in DCU and Parnell park which is their home ground. My point is that if Dublin always have this advantage then why have they not been as successful or even more successful than Kerry?? How many times have Kerry beaten Dublin in Croke park?? Or many many other teams. The only thing about Croke park being of advantage is that the supporters always always show up. Yes, it’s easier for most to do this in terms of travel, but hundreds of the fans, if not thousands travel all over Ireland for league matches, myself and all of my family and several friends included. Dublin won, it’s a bitter pill for many Kerry fans and let’s be honest, most of the rest of the country to swallow, but please stop with all the excuses. It’s just coming across as sour grapes at this stage and it belittles the insane amount of work that this team have put in over the years. No amount of home advantage can be the reason that this team are so successful; if that was the case why did they not win an All Ireland in 16 years or for many many years during the history of the game? Kerry are a superb side and had they won on Saturday I would be so disappointed and dejected but I would have put my hands up to say well done if they were the better team. Dublin were that winning team on Saturday and as awful as that is for so many to accept, they deserved to win based on skill, ability and overall excellent management and teamwork be nice to Kerry. We are the only county likely to delay Dublin being split. |
|
|
|
Post by beebee91 on Sept 16, 2019 21:36:52 GMT
[br Although I understand where u are coming from; the Dublin team do not simply just roll in to Croke part as you put it whenever they fancy! They train in DCU and Parnell park which is their home ground. My point is that if Dublin always have this advantage then why have they not been as successful or even more successful than Kerry?? How many times have Kerry beaten Dublin in Croke park?? Or many many other teams. The only thing about Croke park being of advantage is that the supporters always always show up. Yes, it’s easier for most to do this in terms of travel, but hundreds of the fans, if not thousands travel all over Ireland for league matches, myself and all of my family and several friends included. Dublin won, it’s a bitter pill for many Kerry fans and let’s be honest, most of the rest of the country to swallow, but please stop with all the excuses. It’s just coming across as sour grapes at this stage and it belittles the insane amount of work that this team have put in over the years. No amount of home advantage can be the reason that this team are so successful; if that was the case why did they not win an All Ireland in 16 years or for many many years during the history of the game? Kerry are a superb side and had they won on Saturday I would be so disappointed and dejected but I would have put my hands up to say well done if they were the better team. Dublin were that winning team on Saturday and as awful as that is for so many to accept, they deserved to win based on skill, ability and overall excellent management and teamwork be nice to Kerry. We are the only county likely to delay Dublin being split. I love Kerry and I think the majority of ppl on this thread have been more than fair. Totally understand the disappointment, particularly after such a close fantastic game 2 weeks ago. I was never fully confident that Dublin would win and had serious serious fear of Kerry winning 2 days ago. My point is more that its not fair on the team or supporters to talk about advantages all the time. Takes so so much away from the hard work and credibility of a great great team. Anyway I’m sure I’m wasting my breath and I wish Kerry and it’s supporters all the best in the coming years. No doubt there will be another Dublin v Kerry match in Croke park (or maybe Kerry; hopefully !! ) very soon |
|
|
|
Post by kerry97 on Sept 16, 2019 21:38:46 GMT
I'll just give you the two line executive summary on Saturday evening.
Never was I more proud of a Kerry team than I was on Saturday night.
As for Dublin , worthy champions and the greatest team ever to play the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by fenit67 on Sept 16, 2019 21:43:39 GMT
beebee91 Dublin supporters have to travel to a few league matches which must be an inconvenience. This is not sour grapes on my part but simply an expression of the unfairness of the current system. I look forward to the day when Dublin won't win a championship match, with any luck for a long time.
|
|
|
|
Post by beebee91 on Sept 16, 2019 21:51:35 GMT
beebee91 Dublin supporters have to travel to a few league matches which must be an inconvenience. This is not sour grapes on my part but simply an expression of the unfairness of the current system. I look forward to the day when Dublin won't win a championship match, with any luck for a long time. Fair enough, I look forward to the day it won’t be 31v 1 😂😂 (that’s just a joke 🤭) I take all your points on board and as mentioned in my previous post, I wish Kerry and all the supporters great things and I sincerely hope you win another All Ireland very soon. With such a fantastic, fit and strong team I have no doubt it will be happening in the coming years or even next year. I would have no problem whatsoever if Dublin don’t win another All Ireland for years to come |
|
|
|
Post by john4 on Sept 16, 2019 21:51:36 GMT
be nice to Kerry. We are the only county likely to delay Dublin being split. I love Kerry and I think the majority of ppl on this thread have been more than fair. Totally understand the disappointment, particularly after such a close fantastic game 2 weeks ago. I was never fully confident that Dublin would win and had serious serious fear of Kerry winning 2 days ago. My point is more that its not fair on the team or supporters to talk about advantages all the time. Takes so so much away from the hard work and credibility of a great great team. Anyway I’m sure I’m wasting my breath and I wish Kerry and it’s supporters all the best in the coming years. No doubt there will be another Dublin v Kerry match in Croke park (or maybe Kerry; hopefully !! ) very soon When Dublin didn't have a team good enough for all those years it wouldn't have mattered where they played, they were off the level required to win the all Ireland, but it's when they have a team that's up there at a competitive level that's when the home advantage really kicks in, and makes a meaningful difference. If the All Ireland final was over 2 legs, Croke Park and Killarney, i guarantee you wouldn't get 3/1 on Kerry to lift Sam. |
|
|
|
Post by beebee91 on Sept 16, 2019 22:00:37 GMT
I love Kerry and I think the majority of ppl on this thread have been more than fair. Totally understand the disappointment, particularly after such a close fantastic game 2 weeks ago. I was never fully confident that Dublin would win and had serious serious fear of Kerry winning 2 days ago. My point is more that its not fair on the team or supporters to talk about advantages all the time. Takes so so much away from the hard work and credibility of a great great team. Anyway I’m sure I’m wasting my breath and I wish Kerry and it’s supporters all the best in the coming years. No doubt there will be another Dublin v Kerry match in Croke park (or maybe Kerry; hopefully !! ) very soon When Dublin didn't have a team good enough for all those years it wouldn't have mattered where they played, they were off the level required to win the all Ireland, but it's when they have a team that's up there at a competitive level that's when the home advantage really kicks in, and makes a meaningful difference. If the All Ireland final was over 2 legs, Croke Park and Killarney, i guarantee you wouldn't get 3/1 on Kerry to lift Sam. Fair enough 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 I’m not trying to create any animosity at all. Just proud of my county as you are of yours. Maybe things will change and the country will find a more neutral venue to hold All Ireland finals one day. Dublin May have seen their day by then anyway 😂😂 best of luck to all in the future. I have enjoyed reading all the posts and they made me increasingly nervous as your confidence and admiration for Kerry was fantastic over the past month or so. Thanks for taking the time to reply and answer my questions. I wish great things for Kerry in the future 👍🏻 |
|
|
|
Post by colinsworth1 on Sept 16, 2019 22:01:44 GMT
In game one we game Jack Mc Caffery the freedom of Croke park on Saturday we gave the same freedom to Kilkenny I know he extremely strong extremely fit and hard to manage but we never laid a glove on him . He’s doesn’t have o Callaghan’s speed and he doesn’t go for goal ,making him less of a risk if you commit to tacking him in close . Just spoke to few lads that returned from the game just did not perform in second half we were not necessarily beaten by the brilliance of a better team We were below par and we know it .that s what makes it hard to take . No point hammering it home the players know it, the management know it and thats sport some days that happens .But lets not promote the narrative that we were blow off the park by a juggernought we were not we had enough open shots to win the game and the misses had absolutely nothing to do with the opposition. |
|
Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 450 
|
Post by Hicser on Sept 16, 2019 22:08:40 GMT
God it hurts so bad to lose but how could you not but be proud of this young Kerry team. They were terrific in both games.
I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen a better 35 minutes of football as was the first half.
The goal killed Kerry, that it was a little controversial is a pity. I’d prefer if there was no doubt about it.
I too believe if that goal was not scored Kerry could well be All Ireland champions. I felt at half time that Kerry were in the driving seat. Dublin threw everything at Kerry but we still went in level.
I thought we’d kick on in the 2nd half but fair dews to Dublin they played the front runner well this time.
I can’t wait for the league to start already, the pain won’t subside until that first match and the drive to win back Sam starts again,
|
|
pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 546
|
Post by pillar on Sept 16, 2019 22:09:20 GMT
Just watched game again and taking the drawn game into account.How many Kerry players,especially defenders went down with cramp.Suppose we have to give our S and C dept the benefit of it only being year 1 of their program. But unusual to see lads cramping 10 minutes before time. The running at full speed that was done in the first half Saturday is incomparable to anything we've seen all year. Dublin broke from their usual approach the last day and spent a lot of energy early in the game. They were banking on getting a good start on us and hoping to stay there. I honestly think that did they not get that goal we could have wore them down. That put them in the position of control. Like an arm wrestle, you only have to have 5° advantage at the top of the arc to be in a totally dominant position. I agree 100% with you.The longer were in the game the more energy you get.That goal was one thing but we did recover from it and had moments in the game where we could have had a different conclusion.All that being said the body language of going down with cramp isn't positive if you're chasing a game.I think weve made great strides this year and have a team for the foreseeable future but maybe we need to look at our fitness regime.Not a criticism, just an observation. |
|
dano
Senior Member
Posts: 549
|
Post by dano on Sept 16, 2019 22:49:30 GMT
It has been a great year for us supporters. To contest an All ireland with the second greatest team of all times and draw with them and be competitive until injury time in the replay was as close as anyone could get to victory. This Dublin are indeed a fantastic team, and like the greatest team of all times, will meet their match. I think they did in the drawn game and it could have been over then. They got another chance and, like all great champions, made the changes that were needed.
Our young team got sucker punched by a quick start goal right after the second throw in and, like '96 and '08, this proved to be our downfall. The 12 steps, the population imbalance, the 18 million matters little now. They had more people and money always and had their own famines through the years anyway regardless of this. No excuses, they are the better team now and have been for years. It is now up to Kerry to come back and come back stronger next year and complete what they almost completed this year. Congratulations to Kerry for getting closer to the summit than anyone expected this year and congratulations to Dublin for the first Five in a row at senior level.
|
|
|
|
Post by colinsworth1 on Sept 17, 2019 1:50:14 GMT
The outpouring of gratitude here towards our team and management is commendable and will be rewarded with better days not too far away .
For those of still waiting for the clouds to clear we may have to wait a little more . Understanding more about the game does help .
One stat I read today was that we scored at a 32% clip from shots taken in second half on Saturday. You don’t have to read any more in depth analysis columns . That stat there is self explanatory. Starting out we all said that we’d need to be scoring at an 80% clip enough said good night .
|
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 17, 2019 6:50:09 GMT
Kerry won 100% of their own kickouts and conceeded no scorable free to Dublin yet lost by 6 points.
This points to a lot of possession either being lost or not turned into scores.
It also says a lot about how high the bar is now set by Dublin.
Kerry have huge work to do to get maximum return from possession.
|
|
|
|
Post by sullyschoice on Sept 17, 2019 7:11:06 GMT
The winning of 100% of our own kickouts is a bit misleading and sounds like a brilliant return. There were a good few in the first half anyway that were 50/50 balls that just happened to break favourably our way or because the jumper was fouled. I am not having a go at Shane Ryan, just placing a caveat on the statistic.
|
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 17, 2019 7:23:19 GMT
One thing I noticed during the match was that Kerry didn't have a defensive screen on the 45 m line.
They had it perhaps about 7 yards behind it perhaps enticing Dublin to shoot.
The Dubs were too cute for that.
I think the intensity of Dublin out of the blocks caught Kerry out but they did so well to get back level.
It's hard to know did that massive effort stymie Kerry later on? It might be amateur hour to suggest this - but I wonder would a shorter snappier be better for teams who don't have the reserves of fitness of Dublin.
Perhaps the most sobering aspect for me is after the drawn game I thought there was a feeling of end of the empire about Dublin. I am hoping that Saturday night was an epic stand and they are on the slide.
Cluxton and Gavin major players in this.
Cluxton is a better goalkeeper today than he ever was. Incredible.
I have no problem with the long balls going in at the start. Perhaps there were too many Dubs back and not enough Kerry men around but really those balls were only lost on the break.
I would always hate to see Kerry go negative but I thought Kerry tried a defensive system but attacked fervently. Conceded the kickout wasn't something I would advocate but I trust management had their reasons.
Really looking forward to the league and hopefully catch some Co Championship.
Kerry gave us a great year full of hope.
It is such a privilege to see this young team.
Who knows how the Dubs will be next year. I will be hoping Cluxton and Gavin take a well earned retirement but if they are anything like Kerrymen they will be going nowhere.
I haven't the heart to watch the match back but in my impression the first half was probably the best half of football I've seen since 2013.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 17, 2019 7:41:50 GMT
I have no problem with the long balls going in at the start. Perhaps there were too many Dubs back and not enough Kerry men around but really those balls were only lost on the break. but the next kerryman to touch the ball was SR for the kickout as the umpire was waving the white flag. |
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 17, 2019 7:50:27 GMT
I have no problem with the long balls going in at the start. Perhaps there were too many Dubs back and not enough Kerry men around but really those balls were only lost on the break. but the next kerryman to touch the ball was SR for the kickout as the umpire was waving the white flag. You are correct but is this not judging the tactic on the outcome though? A little after the fact? Before the game if you knew Kerry would rain 4-5 balls down in the first ten minutes would you be happy with that? |
|
|
|
Post by john4 on Sept 17, 2019 8:18:59 GMT
I wouldn't read too much into the fact that there was 6 points in it at the end. Dublin are not a 6 point better team than us. I don't know how many rugby matches I've seen where the score might be something like 20 - 16 with 5 minutes left only to finish 34 - 16. The team that has to go for it at are always going to be very exposed defensively.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 17, 2019 8:24:23 GMT
but the next kerryman to touch the ball was SR for the kickout as the umpire was waving the white flag. You are correct but is this not judging the tactic on the outcome though? A little after the fact? Before the game if you knew Kerry would rain 4-5 balls down in the first ten minutes would you be happy with that? If the balls driven in were diagonal balls between two players then the Kerry player would have the advantage. But the type of ball driven in was to the defenders advantage as the defender just had to stop his opponent from fetching and there was an extra dublin back defending anyway to clean up the break. Maybe if TW had started and he was one on one with his man, i could have understood it. But i just think it was giving the ball away cheaply in the circumstances that prevailed at that time in the match with Kerry playing a sweeper. And you dont do that v Dublin. |
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Sept 17, 2019 8:42:20 GMT
Dublin aren't going anywhere either it will be some battle to try and win anything in the next 5 years a few ages will show what I mean.
1.John small 26
2.mcaffrey 25
3.Murchan 23
4.kilkenny 25
5.Fenton 26
6.Howard 22
7.scully 25
8.oCallaghan 24
9.mannion 26
That's 9 starters from Saturday that are 26 or younger including most of their best bets for all stars. Cluxton is the only starter likely to walk away, where the dip might come if they don't regenerate (which they probably will) is when Cooper (29),McCarthy (29),fitzsimons (30) and rock (30) leave that's 3 very good defenders and the free taker gone. Of course they have added Murchan and can always play Howard at midfield or half back if required which will negate the loss to an extent.
|
|
|
|
Post by kerryboy83 on Sept 17, 2019 8:54:33 GMT
Dublin aren't going anywhere either it will be some battle to try and win anything in the next 5 years a few ages will show what I mean. 1.John small 26 2.mcaffrey 25 3.Murchan 23 4.kilkenny 25 5.Fenton 26 6.Howard 22 7.scully 25 8.oCallaghan 24 9.mannion 26 That's 9 starters from Saturday that are 26 or younger including most of their best bets for all stars. Cluxton is the only starter likely to walk away, where the dip might come if they don't regenerate (which they probably will) is when Cooper (29),McCarthy (29),fitzsimons (30) and rock (30) leave that's 3 very good defenders and the free taker gone. Of course they have added Murchan and can always play Howard at midfield or half back if required which will negate the loss to an extent. If you take Cluxton out of that team, it’s a different team entirely and I don’t care what they have outfield. He is the conductor of the orchestra. No matter what keeper comes in after him, will be no wat near as effective as him. |
|
|
|
Post by boherbee on Sept 17, 2019 8:59:01 GMT
I wouldn't read too much into the fact that there was 6 points in it at the end. Dublin are not a 6 point better team than us. I don't know how many rugby matches I've seen where the score might be something like 20 - 16 with 5 minutes left only to finish 34 - 16. The team that has to go for it at are always going to be very exposed defensively. But....you have to go back to 2007 to find a team that was beaten by more than six points in an All Ireland final. ! no sign of the Dubs coming back into the chasing pack yet . |
|
|
|
Post by glengael on Sept 17, 2019 9:19:22 GMT
If the balls driven in were diagonal balls between two players then the Kerry player would have the advantage. But the type of ball driven in was to the defenders advantage as the defender just had to stop his opponent from fetching and there was an extra dublin back defending anyway to clean up the break.
Maybe if TW had started and he was one on one with his man, i could have understood it.
But i just think it was giving the ball away cheaply in the circumstances that prevailed at that time in the match with Kerry playing a sweeper.
And you dont do that v Dublin.
Agree Mickmack, it was awful to watch that aerial madness from behind the Canal goal. That type of aimlessness has always driven mad. Makes heroes out of defenders and gives away possession so they can build from the back at their leisure. Should have been tried once and when it clearly failed, it should not have been repeated.
|
|
|
|
Post by dc84 on Sept 17, 2019 9:24:00 GMT
Dublin aren't going anywhere either it will be some battle to try and win anything in the next 5 years a few ages will show what I mean. 1.John small 26 2.mcaffrey 25 3.Murchan 23 4.kilkenny 25 5.Fenton 26 6.Howard 22 7.scully 25 8.oCallaghan 24 9.mannion 26 That's 9 starters from Saturday that are 26 or younger including most of their best bets for all stars. Cluxton is the only starter likely to walk away, where the dip might come if they don't regenerate (which they probably will) is when Cooper (29),McCarthy (29),fitzsimons (30) and rock (30) leave that's 3 very good defenders and the free taker gone. Of course they have added Murchan and can always play Howard at midfield or half back if required which will negate the loss to an extent. If you take Cluxton out of that team, it’s a different team entirely and I don’t care what they have outfield. He is the conductor of the orchestra. No matter what keeper comes in after him, will be no wat near as effective as him. I would agree with you there alright comerford is a fine goalie but his kickouts are no where near cluxtons and he is vulernable in the air. It will make a full press way more rewarding I think we had the better midfield over the two days it was cluxtons incredible skill that got them out of a few holes. Still with the talent I listed above and 50k dubs shouting them on they would still be favourites. Cluxton has another 4 years in him if family life allows anyway so it may be a moot point he is a teacher so work shouldn't be an issue. |
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 17, 2019 9:36:05 GMT
Dublin aren't going anywhere either it will be some battle to try and win anything in the next 5 years a few ages will show what I mean. 1.John small 26 2.mcaffrey 25 3.Murchan 23 4.kilkenny 25 5.Fenton 26 6.Howard 22 7.scully 25 8.oCallaghan 24 9.mannion 26 That's 9 starters from Saturday that are 26 or younger including most of their best bets for all stars. Cluxton is the only starter likely to walk away, where the dip might come if they don't regenerate (which they probably will) is when Cooper (29),McCarthy (29),fitzsimons (30) and rock (30) leave that's 3 very good defenders and the free taker gone. Of course they have added Murchan and can always play Howard at midfield or half back if required which will negate the loss to an extent. at least we wont have to read bullsh1t posts any longer that this is an once in a generation Dublin team and when Bryan Cullen, Alan Brogan, Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn etc they will go into decline. I never bought that line. I do agree that Cluxton will be hard to replace however. |
|
|
|
Post by baurtregaum on Sept 17, 2019 10:07:39 GMT
I do agree that Cluxton will be hard to replace however.
[/quote]
Dino Zoff was 40 lifting the World Cup in 1982 so Cluxton might be around for a bit. Goalkeepers are a different breed. Anyway, Comerford is learning from the best and will only improve. He impressed me in Tralee.
They have the likes of Archer to freshen up their forward line and if I were Gavin I would look for a new midfielder like Peadar Byrne or Brian Gavin and move MDMA to impact sub only. This process is already in train.
Also move Cian and Philly out (happening already also) and find replacement defenders.
That sounds difficult but no better man than Jim Gavin to do this over next 12 months or so.
As depressing as it is, Dublin going nowhere over the next 5 years at least. Who would bet against them winning an average of 2/3 titles for the foreseeable?
|
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Pitches on Sept 17, 2019 10:08:40 GMT
Just had a quick look over the game again there.
The 45th minute was the turning point.
Sean O'Shea had just kicked a point to bring us back to within one. We caught the break from Cluxton's kickout but then Connolly puts in a challenge wins the ball back and Kilkenny points it.
Connolly for all the hype of being brought back was integral to Dublin’s win.
On fine margins are titles won.
|
|
