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Post by southward on Jul 17, 2023 15:55:08 GMT
Revisit Ryan O'Donoghue vs Gavin White. Was that a foul? Yes, it was. O'Donoghue didn't win possession and was never going to. Completely different scenario.
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dubaigaa2022
Full Member
Get rid of the forward mark!!!
Posts: 63
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Post by dubaigaa2022 on Jul 17, 2023 15:59:47 GMT
Wow, I’m barely over that game nearly 24 hours on, it was tense. Derry will be sick for a while, we know only too well how losing a semi final like that feels. The Shane Ryan thing…in real-time it looked like he turned in the air to stop his knees going straight into McGuigan’s face. Had that happened, we would be talking about a very different result yday. The fact that he got the full force of Ryan’s arse instead is unfortunate! But I saw nothing wrong with it at the time, he went for the ball and caught it. What did McGuigan think was going to happen if he stayed where he was?! If that was James McCarthy though, I’d be spitting fire. Swings and roundabouts. Stephen O Brien was outstanding and Paudie got a v important score at the end. With 5 mins to go before injury time, I was not in a good place mentally but did those men dig deep. Finally, thank the Lord our God for our saviour, David Clifford. Did anyone else think - taking Paudie Clifford off was so un-Jack like - could have cost us the game...
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 16:01:49 GMT
Revisit Ryan O'Donoghue vs Gavin White. Was that a foul? Yes, it was. O'Donoghue didn't win possession and was never going to. Completely different scenario. If Shane Ryan drops the ball? If ROD meets the ball and still puts his fist to White's head? FWIW I was convinced at the time by a poster that ROD's should definitely be foul play.
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Post by southward on Jul 17, 2023 16:21:25 GMT
Yes, it was. O'Donoghue didn't win possession and was never going to. Completely different scenario. If Shane Ryan drops the ball? If ROD meets the ball and still puts his fist to White's head? FWIW I was convinced at the time by a poster that ROD's should definitely be foul play. It was foul play. You go for a tackle in any sport and miss-time it, that's a foul. Doesn't matter how honourable your intentions were. If ROD connects with ball as well as White, that's a different proposition, depending on the degrees of course. If Shane drops the ball yesterday, well at least he gets to it first, McGuigan was nowhere near winning it, so no difference in my book. In any case he didn't drop the ball and and ROD didn't connect with it in the other situation. Dealing with things as they actually happened, ROD was offside and Shane wasn't. Ifs and buts don't come into it.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 16:22:17 GMT
If Shane Ryan drops the ball? If ROD meets the ball and still puts his fist to White's head? FWIW I was convinced at the time by a poster that ROD's should definitely be foul play. It was foul play. You go for a tackle in any sport and miss-time it, that's a foul. Doesn't matter how honourable your intentions were. If ROD connects with ball as well as White, that's a different proposition, depending on the degrees of course. If Shane drops the ball yesterday, well at least he gets to it first, McGuigan was nowhere near winning it, so no difference in my book. In any case he didn't drop the ball and and ROD didn't connect with it in the other situation. Dealing with things as they actually happened, ROD was offside and Shane wasn't. Ifs and buts don't come into it. The rules are all about 'ifs and buts'. I think the Shane Ryan one goes into the freak incident bracket.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 16:25:39 GMT
Paul Flynn said Kerry were "poxed" to get through Derry.
I have defended him as blinkered when it comes to Dublin but otherwise fair.
Now I think he is a *.
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Post by southward on Jul 17, 2023 17:20:04 GMT
Paul Flynn said Kerry were "poxed" to get through Derry. I have defended him as blinkered when it comes to Dublin but otherwise fair. Now I think he is a *. I hope we're poxed every day. Better that than jinxed. Then we'd be Mayo.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 18:30:09 GMT
In the middle Derry were good and Jack Barry somehow maligned... but where was Conor Glass yesterday?
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 17, 2023 18:35:07 GMT
In the middle Derry were good and Jack Barry somehow maligned... but where was Conor Glass yesterday? Kicking ankles and running away during Derry kickouts to get space.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 18:37:47 GMT
Also, Gavin White has really improved his kicking game. Serious kick passes from the wing right to the D when before he might have always carried.
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Post by augustafield on Jul 17, 2023 18:41:02 GMT
Tough tough day at the office yesterday . Derry played attacking hard running football all day unlike the dour defending and counter attacking we were led to believe they would adopt . And they were good - very good .
Fitness told in the end as the pace throughout was extreme . Standing off them in the first half was playing on their terms and giving them comfort . This could not be continued and sure enough the second half saw the real Kerry emerge to force the play on our terms . Though it must be said leaving it late to decide the issue . Shades of the last 10 minutes last year against Galway . But it seems the lessons of the late collapse against the Dubs in the drawn 2019 final particularly have been learned . Our experience fitness and maturity levels stood to us in the closing minutes yesterday .
It seems to have been overlooked that we were playing 16 men yesterday ( with the Derry goalie spending more time outfield than in goals ! ) and for 10 minutes we were reduced to 14 . This unmarked man roving around the pitch at will allied to the intensity and speed of Derry was a difficult test to master - especially when it may have been difficult to anticipate the strength and football ability of them. Maybe that test will help to steel us for the Dublin challenge .
We cannot have any cause to complain about the Ref except maybe for David Clifford’s yellow card . Speaking of David nothing needs to be said that has not been said before . His achievements have made him public property for all the right reasons but he is ours - a Kerry man.
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,693
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Post by Jo90 on Jul 17, 2023 18:50:24 GMT
In case anyone thinks the Stephen O'Brien incident wasn't a foul, look again, it's 100% a free when you see it from the other angle... A still image doen't show the full picture. He lost his balance prior to entering tackle as he was head down trying to weave around players. I don't see any malice in the tackle and even Stephen himself looked surprise when it was given. In real time and from the wrong angle most people can't see the foul, it's only in slow motion or a still you can see the foul - Derry player with one leg on the ground, diving across slapping across the hand and the body, nowhere near the ball - clear foul. If O'Brien went to ground instead of trying to play on, nobody would have even questioned it, like happens 99% of the time.
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Post by john4 on Jul 17, 2023 18:53:24 GMT
One of the top moment for me was SoB's block above. He completely changed the game in the second half made 2 important turnovers and really drove us on.
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Post by stevieq on Jul 17, 2023 19:35:05 GMT
Do posters have Dublin beating that Derry team yesterday?
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 17, 2023 19:48:51 GMT
Do posters have Dublin beating that Derry team yesterday? I think Dublin were training for the final when they drew Monaghan, and would have modified their training plan were it Derry. Have they planned the same way v Derry as they did Monaghan I think it would be a Kerry Derry final.
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Post by whiteheat on Jul 17, 2023 20:46:55 GMT
Tough tough day at the office yesterday . Derry played attacking hard running football all day unlike the dour defending and counter attacking we were led to believe they would adopt . And they were good - very good . Fitness told in the end as the pace throughout was extreme . Standing off them in the first half was playing on their terms and giving them comfort . This could not be continued and sure enough the second half saw the real Kerry emerge to force the play on our terms . Though it must be said leaving it late to decide the issue . Shades of the last 10 minutes last year against Galway . But it seems the lessons of the late collapse against the Dubs in the drawn 2019 final particularly have been learned . Our experience fitness and maturity levels stood to us in the closing minutes yesterday . It seems to have been overlooked that we were playing 16 men yesterday ( with the Derry goalie spending more time outfield than in goals ! ) and for 10 minutes we were reduced to 14 . This unmarked man roving around the pitch at will allied to the intensity and speed of Derry was a difficult test to master - especially when it may have been difficult to anticipate the strength and football ability of them. Maybe that test will help to steel us for the Dublin challenge . We cannot have any cause to complain about the Ref except maybe for David Clifford’s yellow card . Speaking of David nothing needs to be said that has not been said before . His achievements have made him public property for all the right reasons but he is ours - a Kerry man. Lynch travelling up the field was causing havoc and creating overlaps time and time again. Kerry have never really faced this issue before. Monaghan tried it but just could not execute it aswell as derry, that being said it caused dublin problems. One thing for sure cluxton will not pass his own 45 which is huge bonus for kerry. I would like to see Shane trying more of this "probing" keeper more.
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Post by dc84 on Jul 17, 2023 20:58:54 GMT
Tough tough day at the office yesterday . Derry played attacking hard running football all day unlike the dour defending and counter attacking we were led to believe they would adopt . And they were good - very good . Fitness told in the end as the pace throughout was extreme . Standing off them in the first half was playing on their terms and giving them comfort . This could not be continued and sure enough the second half saw the real Kerry emerge to force the play on our terms . Though it must be said leaving it late to decide the issue . Shades of the last 10 minutes last year against Galway . But it seems the lessons of the late collapse against the Dubs in the drawn 2019 final particularly have been learned . Our experience fitness and maturity levels stood to us in the closing minutes yesterday . It seems to have been overlooked that we were playing 16 men yesterday ( with the Derry goalie spending more time outfield than in goals ! ) and for 10 minutes we were reduced to 14 . This unmarked man roving around the pitch at will allied to the intensity and speed of Derry was a difficult test to master - especially when it may have been difficult to anticipate the strength and football ability of them. Maybe that test will help to steel us for the Dublin challenge . We cannot have any cause to complain about the Ref except maybe for David Clifford’s yellow card . Speaking of David nothing needs to be said that has not been said before . His achievements have made him public property for all the right reasons but he is ours - a Kerry man. Lynch travelling up the field was causing havoc and creating overlaps time and time again. Kerry have never really faced this issue before. Monaghan tried it but just could not execute it aswell as derry, that being said it caused dublin problems. One thing for sure cluxton will not pass his own 45 which is huge bonus for kerry. I would like to see Shane trying more of this "probing" keeper more. Other than the lucky point I'm not sure it was very effective tbh blocked down 3 times by my count when you have good kickers like derry that's fairly criminal.
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Post by whiteheat on Jul 17, 2023 21:09:26 GMT
Lynch travelling up the field was causing havoc and creating overlaps time and time again. Kerry have never really faced this issue before. Monaghan tried it but just could not execute it aswell as derry, that being said it caused dublin problems. One thing for sure cluxton will not pass his own 45 which is huge bonus for kerry. I would like to see Shane trying more of this "probing" keeper more. Other than the lucky point I'm not sure it was very effective tbh blocked down 3 times by my count when you have good kickers like derry that's fairly criminal. He was creating overlaps all through the first half and most of the second
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jul 17, 2023 21:29:56 GMT
Top 6 highlights v Derry. 6.Shane Ryan's point. 5.Shane Ryan's save 4.Ciffords first point. 3.Gavins goal. 2.Cliffords beauty after slipping near Cusack stand and 1.The boys in the Hill dressed in the flowery shirts and their Kerry bucket hats. Pure class! Stag party?
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Post by john4 on Jul 17, 2023 21:37:00 GMT
Other than the lucky point I'm not sure it was very effective tbh blocked down 3 times by my count when you have good kickers like derry that's fairly criminal. It was effective enough as that's how they got their first goal and it gave them a extra player. It took us a long time to get to grips with it. Ulster teams have been regarded as being ultra defensive and just when we've come to terms with how we might be able to work around the "northern style" blanket defense they decide to go ultra offensive!! Never before have we faced 15 forwards! They constantly had the extra man, and 2 extra for the 10 minutes DoC was off. I thought yesterday's match was fascinating from a tactical point of view. Derry really went for us and without meaning to be patronising, you'd have to admire their self belief that they could go full on, and trust themselves that they had the skills to mind the ball and get enough on target to trouble us. I found myself shouting from the stand to go to Lynch, but sure that's what they wanted, they were in then. I think we're better this year than last, I think we'd have struggled to get our defensive structure right against this Derry approach last year whereas the lads adapted well yesterday. Delighted the way they dug it out.
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Post by thehermit on Jul 17, 2023 21:37:10 GMT
Paul Flynn said Kerry were "poxed" to get through Derry. I have defended him as blinkered when it comes to Dublin but otherwise fair. Now I think he is a *. I enjoy Second Captains for everything but the football coverage when he is their 'expert'. I actually stopped listening to it after about 5 minutes. He's an utter dose even his accent grates me. Hate the fact fellas like him and McMahon are getting so well paid to write/air their utter drivel. Back to the usual narrative by them anyway, we're a 1 (1.5 man) show, hope someone is telling Geaney, Paduie et all what's been said about them by fellas like this going into the final. Ref handed us the game, Dubs are licking their lips yadaa yadaa yadaa. I have visions in two weeks of the last remnants of Flynn's all mighty dollar Dubs exiting stage right to the sight of David lifting Sam. If there's a God in heaven that vision will come to pass because if I have to see another video of Cluxton sweeping up a changing room I'll put a fist through my laptop
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Post by thehermit on Jul 17, 2023 21:38:39 GMT
Do posters have Dublin beating that Derry team yesterday? Interesting question, I heard Sean Sullivan asking it as well on a programme this morning and he said no, I tend to agree. Derry are a good bit ahead of Monaghan, you'd hope that stands to us in two weeks time.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jul 17, 2023 21:45:36 GMT
Derry had 1 wide in first half, everything they kicked went over, couldn’t believe the accuracy, they got through too easily. We were walled out the other end. A real significant sign of character that we hung in through that game. Derry better team for 60 minutes. Stevie was a major game changer, his tackling put doubts in the Derry minds. It was a mistake to concede the kickout for so long. Their keeper caused us no end of trouble like an extra chess piece giving them so many recycling options to relaunch attacks, the black card was costly too and dont think DMOC returned the same player. A totally stressed laden watch but the absolute perfect outcome to prep for the Dubs. No injuries I could see and no red cards.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 17, 2023 22:17:15 GMT
Interesting stuff here from Éamonn as usual - Mayo scar tissue may have shaped Kerry approach - FitzmauriceAs regards goalies being an extra outfield player and while we can do it too, will it morph into one of our backs going forward to cancel out the extra man and our goalie covering the unmarked forward, if ya with me? i.e. Their goalie draws a forward only to pass it to who the forward was marking and doing that a few times has them within shooting distance.
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Post by homerj on Jul 17, 2023 22:30:04 GMT
the way all the talk is today in the wider media, youd swear Kerry lost.
people are completely ignoring the huge momentum Derry got in first half due to the black card (which i dont think was the correct decision). it was worth 5 points to them.
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Post by whiteheat on Jul 17, 2023 22:33:02 GMT
Interesting stuff here from Éamonn as usual - Mayo scar tissue may have shaped Kerry approach - FitzmauriceAs regards goalies being an extra outfield player and while we can do it too, will it morph into one of our backs going forward to cancel out the extra man and our goalie covering the unmarked forward, if ya with me? i.e. Their goalie draws a forward only to pass it to who the forward was marking and doing that a few times has them within shooting distance. I recall cluxton did that in the last few plays of the drawn final 2019. He marked tommy Walsh.
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Post by piskin on Jul 17, 2023 22:45:28 GMT
The obsession with refs when we win is just insane. there was 4 or 5 huge calls against Kerry yesterday yet Dublin Joe was in our favour apparently. Clifford one on one with an empty goal having his jersey pulled and he gave a free out. look at the black card - which derry scored 5 points during and gave them fierce momentum. it was neither a deliberate pull down or a trip nor was it cyncical foul, it looked like a complete accident. the clifford shoulder and yellow was a free out. Derry almost got a goal second half when Mckinless took about 10 steps. jersey pulling on clifford all day considering all the reffing incidents this year, the gaa need to stamp down on managers and pundits publicly as there wont be any refs left. Dublin Joe did us no favours yesterday yet youd swear that was the only reason we won. Northern boys always blame the ref,
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keane
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,267
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Post by keane on Jul 18, 2023 9:15:36 GMT
the way all the talk is today in the wider media, youd swear Kerry lost. people are completely ignoring the huge momentum Derry got in first half due to the black card (which i dont think was the correct decision). it was worth 5 points to them. They were all sagely telling us that Derry were going to put it up to Kerry much more than anyone expected (despite everyone seemingly expecting the same thing), and now that it happened they're all horrified that Kerry didn't win easily. Weirdly, the Dublin win is being thought of as ultimately quite comfortable and routine because they got a fairly unimportant goal at the end. We could easily have done the same when Clifford was fouled while scooping the ball toward Tom O'Sullivan in the second last play. I wonder how different the narrative would be if we had converted that and won by six instead of two. You'd like to think a last play goal shouldn't change the analysis much but it doesn't really look like it.
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Post by brucewayne on Jul 18, 2023 9:30:55 GMT
Micheál Burns was totally unmarked and had a good opportunity for a goal in one of the last plays that was pointed too.
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moth
Senior Member
Posts: 382
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Post by moth on Jul 18, 2023 10:22:45 GMT
Great win in a brilliant match. Really enjoyed this more than any other game this year. David Clifford was immense - a class apart. I thought Stephen O'Brien brought great energy to the second half, but that was helped by coming in at half time rather than 5 or 10 minutes into the half. Lots of positives from the day, especially the leadership shown by many of the key players.
A few negatives though as well. Derry were setup perfectly to play against us, they knew how to restrict our scoring and how to open up us. They knew exactly who to mark and who to let shoot from distance. They got their match-ups spot on and were particularly unlucky with the early injury to McGrogan. Kerry, on the other hand, let Derry off the hook for most of the game by not pressing their kick-outs, which some other teams have shown is the best way to restrict the impact of the floating keeper.
Another worry going forward for us is our very small bench (I know, Derry's options were even fewer). Before the match, we decided to mark into our program the Kerry subs. We were wrong in timing, but scarily accurate in personnel. We had O'Brien for Spillane on 45, Brosnan for Geaney on 50, B.O'B. for Murphy of 55, Burns for Moynihan on 60 and Breen for White on 65 {I know, we were wrong here!}. For Barry Dan to appear, we knew that it required an injury to either DoC or JB. For Donal Down, Dylan Casey or Sean O'Brien, we reckoned on 3 injuries to starting players or a very late injury for any of this trio to get game time.
The great thing is that we won't be over-hyped going into meet the Dubs.
P.S. The way the game had gone, I thought that Donal Down would have been a better swop for Paul Geaney.
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