|
Post by canuck on Jul 17, 2023 3:14:33 GMT
Congratulations Kerry on a great win.
Derry are a great team. Kerry had not met the likes of them in a long time. We were in serious trouble for a while there. Stephen O'Brien was huge for us.
We won't beat Dublin with 8 or 9 wides. They will punish us
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,129
|
Post by kerryexile on Jul 17, 2023 5:54:52 GMT
Please explain to me how it is a free. It may well have been deliberate to land the way he did, the only man that knows that for sure is Shane but it is not a free. Harold Schumacher v Patrick Batistan springs to mind. Got away with it in my view. I normally don't get involved in these ridiculous "What someone from another county told me about Kerry" discussions but I am this time because Shane and the Kerry team are entitled to fair and balanced commentary. I saw the incident referred to live on tv fádo fádo and was in Croke Park yesterday. The French forward had knocked the ball past the keeper at least 4 metres before they came together so THE BALL WAS NOT THERE TO BE WON. It looked awful. Play was held up for 10 minutes. It made headlines around the world. Very unfortunate comparison. I think Shane decided to win the ball at all costs. After that instinct took over and it worked perfectly. No one was injured. Play continued seamlessly and Shane scored. Fortune favours the brave.
|
|
|
Post by wayupnorth on Jul 17, 2023 7:08:39 GMT
Once more into the breach. My second time in Croke Park and although not as enjoyable as the last one, a very satisfying conclusion. Yesterday was not a day for the faint of heart either in the stands or on the field. Make no mistake about it, Derry have a great team and were our toughest opponents for a long time. They played football and literally so because their long range points particularly in the first half were amazing. We seemed to be a bit befuddled by their roaming keeper, allowing him the freedom to roam, no doubt knowing that if tackled he would immediately pass to the extra man, but he did that anyway and we leaked scores as a result. At least there is little chance of Cluxton doing likewise next time out.
On goalkeepers, can anyone confirm it otherwise, that this was the first time a Kerry goalkeeper scored a point from play? Or the first time in a Championship match that both goalkeepers scored from play? Not that I want to see that happening in many more matches.
The true mark of champions is that they can grind out a victory when everything is going against them and that is what happened yesterday. Stephen O’Brien was immense when he came on but also great credit to everyone on the field for believing that we could win and finding the extra inches to pull it off. So I’m very disappointed with the post match comments even from some of our own the the better team lost. In my admittedly biased opinion, the better team will be meeting Dublin on the 30th July.
|
|
|
Post by greenandgold on Jul 17, 2023 7:25:10 GMT
Great article from Eamonn n Examiner- lets hope i can copy it here! Éamonn Fitzmaurice: Serene Clifford guided Kerry through a serious storm The Munster champions were in trouble at half-time, but I wasn’t panicked. Éamonn Fitzmaurice: Serene Clifford guided Kerry through a serious storm SERENE: David Clifford of Kerry celebrates late in the second half. Pic: Piaras Ó Mídheach/Sportsfile MON, 17 JUL, 2023 - 08:00 Eamonn Fitzmaurice Éamonn Fitzmaurice Social share After 63 championship games we are at the destination many expected from the off, a Kerry v Dublin All-Ireland final.
Monaghan and Derry both played their parts in a great weekend of football but ultimately the two superpowers of Gaelic football prevailed. Kerry survived an intense battle against a team with ferocious pace and athleticism all over the field. It will stand to them.
The Munster champions were in trouble at half-time, but I wasn’t panicked. They had a stronger bench but more importantly I felt that the winning experience built up from last year would stand to them. It is impossible to overstate what that experience means when it comes to the punch, in those final 10 minutes from the 65th minute on.
Until a team gets over the line, desperation can lead to rash and often incorrect decisions in those late-game phases. Mistakes are costly and suck the energy out of the crowd and more importantly out of your teammates. Those nagging doubts at the back of your mind start to come to the front of your subconscious. Fatigue moves towards exhaustion, and everything feels hard.
Once a team wins they thrive in these situations. They want to be in that scenario and collectively navigate through it. The simple satisfaction of winning is sweetened with the additional fulfilment that comes with doing it the hard way, with everything on the line.
The more often a team survives those tests the more robust and difficult to beat they become. Dublin had a copyright on this in the recent past but now Kerry are building a body of work that they can also trademark.
That winning experience empowers and equips the players with the knowledge and know-how to do it. In these game and season-defining moments, calmness is vital. It is about doing the simple things well. Communicating with each other to keep doing it again and again. David Clifford epitomised this, but he was ably supported by nearly all of his teammates. As well as scoring his nine points, he created and shared the ball but most of all he radiated serenity.
Whatever decisions were taken at half-time when Joe McQuillan threw the ball up to resume the second half Diarmuid O’Connor won it brilliantly and immediately drove at Derry, setting the tone. Seanie O’Shea handled the ball twice in quick succession straight after the break and it was clear that he wanted to wear himself into the game, which he did.
The terms of engagement were set as the Munster Champions were determined to bend them back in their favour. Sometimes when faced with a puzzle like Derry it can be easy to overthink it, as Kerry did in the first half. They had to go after it in the second half and especially late on and it really suited them.
They got two points off the Odhran Lynch kickout when aggressively pressed late on, much as Dublin had done in the closing stages on Saturday evening. Earlier in the game when they were giving up the Derry kickout it didn’t work as well as the Ulster champions managed to score 1-5 from their own uncontested short restarts.
It is food for thought with the final in mind as the approach to the opposition kickout has been a bit of a conundrum all year.
Stephen O’Brien’s introduction at half-time was also massively significant. He has had a frustrating season as he has been hobbled by injuries but he was at his best here. His biggest attribute as a modern wing forward is his ability to go both ways, to defend and attack with equal effect.
GOAL: Gavin White of Kerry celebrates scoring his side's first goal. Pic: Brendan Moran/Sportsfile GOAL: Gavin White of Kerry celebrates scoring his side's first goal. Pic: Brendan Moran/Sportsfile In the first few minutes straight after half-time he forced two huge turnovers. His colleagues followed his example as Kerry pushed up all over the pitch. They no longer allowed Derry to receive passes uncontested and build up the head of the steam that had led to so many problems in the first half as their runners repeatedly punched holes.
Suddenly Derry’s comfortable three-point half-time lead was down to the minimum. In addition to his incredible workrate, O’Brien won a questionable free, converted by his clubmate Seán O’Shea, and also kicked a great score off his left foot in the game-defining phase. He is experienced and courageous. He will be doing his utmost over the next fortnight to convince Jack and co to start him in the final.
Speaking of Jack, when he has time to reflect today he will be thrilled with the resilience his side showed. They were tested to the hilt and they came through a stern examination on the sideline also. In terms of getting prepared and conditioned for a final it couldn’t have been much better. Both sides arrive to that final day primed and ready, which only adds to the anticipation that straightaway surrounds the mouth-watering clash.
Derry were heroic in defeat. Individually they all played well but Conor McCluskey, Gareth McKinless and Brendan Rogers were incredible. I have been fortunate enough to see them a good few times over the last two years and I have really enjoyed watching them develop. Their innovations in attack, in particular, this year have fascinated me.
I was worried this week as I wondered how the Kerry defence would deal with them in set attacks when they got everyone forward. In the first half, they had 20 attacks and got 16 shots off. They scored 1-11 and had a shot accuracy of 75% from play. All of these are match-winning metrics.
They continued to create chances in the second half getting off 15 shots in 17 attacks. However, their accuracy fell off a cliff. They were at 21% from play during that second period. They created a bundle of goal chances but couldn’t add to their early major. As well as the significance of the goal on the scoreboard it would have given their energy and confidence levels a massive and necessary boost. They needed that fillip as the missed chances visibly drained energy out of them.
While it is impossible to pick out one key moment in a match of so many Shane Ryan’s remarkable save from McKinless felt huge at the time, and even bigger now looking back at it. Ryan spread himself in a textbook manner and then his strong arm save kept the shot out.
In general, he was outstanding, scoring a memorable point from play when Kerry were under the cosh and he was 86% on his own kickouts with Kerry scoring 1-5 from their restart. Derry’s next step will be to deepen their squad to have game changers ready to come into the game when it comes to that final quarter.
There is plenty of talent coming through in Derry from their successful schools, minor and under-20 teams. Managing these players' transition and continuing to find those tiny increments of improvement at the top level that can be the difference will be their mission in 2024.
The fortnight between here and the final will fly and will be filled with plenty of talk and analysis. The back-to-back will be on Kerry people's minds.
Revenge for last year will occupy Dublin thoughts. However, the fact that Kerry haven’t beaten Dublin in an All-Ireland final since 1985 is sure to add to Kingdom motivation.
Fuel for the fire.
|
|
Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,695
|
Post by Jo90 on Jul 17, 2023 7:49:01 GMT
SoS was quiet in the first half but scored 3 from play and a free in the second half plus he tracked Rogers and his tackle (dig!) made Rogers spill possession leading to David scoring. Thats 5 scores, and the upright from a free preventing 6. Not too shabby. Also gave the pass to White for the goal. Although honorable mentions to Moynihan, Geaney and White himself who played big parts in the build-up.
|
|
pony
Senior Member
Posts: 385
|
Post by pony on Jul 17, 2023 7:55:38 GMT
Seanie was poor today and scored only after David gave him a free shot form 21 yards - we need more from him. Just a poor performance overall from the forwards Agreed about S o Shea, he was missing for the majority of the match. Here we go again, obviously not at the game
|
|
|
Post by southward on Jul 17, 2023 8:03:45 GMT
SoS was quiet in the first half but scored 3 from play and a free in the second half plus he tracked Rogers and his tackle (dig!) made Rogers spill possession leading to David scoring. Thats 5 scores, and the upright from a free preventing 6. Not too shabby. Also gave the pass to White for the goal. Although honorable mentions to Moynihan, Geaney and White himself who played big parts in the build-up. Not a fan of the palmed goal but have a look at Gavin's movement for this one. Sprinted most of the length of the pitch to finish. Serious pace and hunger.
|
|
|
Post by misteallaigh abú on Jul 17, 2023 8:16:50 GMT
Seánie Shea had a huge second half, the amount of running off the ball that he was doing in order to creat space for others and options for the kickout was incredible. You can have an influence on a game without touching the ball. He was centrally involved in the goal and when the need was greatest, he stood strong and helped to guide us home. An absolute blue chip player.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 8:26:23 GMT
Derry's first half shooting couldn't stand up in second half but overall I was very impressed by them. They will be a force over the next five years.
|
|
pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
|
Post by pillar on Jul 17, 2023 8:33:39 GMT
Think we'll have to be very clever how we pick our first fifteen to ensure we are ahead going into the final quarter..and also have a bench to see off a Dublin onslaught. I'd nearly have a look at the likes of playing a wing back in the half forward line, like Brian O Beaglaoich.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 8:37:43 GMT
Think we'll have to be very clever how we pick our first fifteen to ensure we are ahead going into the final quarter..and also have a bench to see off a Dublin onslaught. I'd nearly have a look at the likes of playing a wing back in the half forward line, like Brian O Beaglaoich. No no no no no no no no no no no no nooooooooooo please god no.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 17, 2023 8:39:24 GMT
Agreed about S o Shea, he was missing for the majority of the match. Here we go again, obviously not at the game Plain as hell that it was a different game in Croker than on TV - nothing beats being there for sure, and never to be repeated. Can someone who was fortunate enough to be there tell us all about how mid field went?
|
|
Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 385
|
Post by Hicser on Jul 17, 2023 8:39:59 GMT
Think we'll have to be very clever how we pick our first fifteen to ensure we are ahead going into the final quarter..and also have a bench to see off a Dublin onslaught. I'd nearly have a look at the likes of playing a wing back in the half forward line, like Brian O Beaglaoich. No no no no no no no no no no no no nooooooooooo please god no. That would be a signal of surrender
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 8:42:29 GMT
Morley was taken out of the game because Derry don't kick so much.
|
|
Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 385
|
Post by Hicser on Jul 17, 2023 8:43:36 GMT
Derry's first half shooting couldn't stand up in second half but overall I was very impressed by them. They will be a force over the next five years. I’m surprised nobody is talking about the wind, in my opinion if we went in level at half time I’d have been happy, the black card saw to that. We went ahead and won the 2nd half by 5 points in the end. By the way that was some blooper at the end by Derry forward,
|
|
|
Post by rollingstone on Jul 17, 2023 8:45:08 GMT
For such a controversial point on here, the Shane Ryan issue barely raised a mention on live TV or on the Sunday Game last night. I'd be genuinely interested to know what rule he apparently broke as I can't see any.
It was a coming together that could not be avoided which in contact sports such as ours, is just an unfortunate by product every now and again.
Can you imagine the outcry if Shane didn't go for the ball?
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 8:50:08 GMT
For such a controversial point on here, the Shane Ryan issue barely raised a mention on live TV or on the Sunday Game last night. I'd be genuinely interested to know what rule he apparently broke as I can't see any. It was a coming together that could not be avoided which in contact sports such as ours, is just an unfortunate by product every now and again. Can you imagine the outcry if Shane didn't go for the ball? I guess there is a rule around dangerous play and not giving due regard to other players' safety. Google gives: "5.17 To behave in any way which is dangerous to an opponent." I say that as someone who thought it was one of the best things I ever saw a Kerry player do.
|
|
|
Post by rollingstone on Jul 17, 2023 8:50:29 GMT
Genuine question - what's the issue with Shane Ryan Ciarraimick? He jumped for a ball he was perfectly entitled to go for and was always going to win first, he turned himself because (IMO) if he didn't, he would've taken McGuigan's head off with his knee(s) which would've done far more damage. FWIW I agree totally that DOC's was a black, he knew what he was doing but on another day he might have got away with it. Clifford's was not even a foul let alone a yellow but in a split second all full speed the ref could be forgiven for thinking it was frontal charge. As a general observation, McQuillan was pretty good all round and had no impact on the winning or losing of the match. Hi Rollings tone. I just think that Shane knew what he was doing and it's a free to Derry. That's just my opinion. Does nt mean it's correct. I was in a Dublin pub tonight and a few thought it was red card material. People I'm with are not all Dubs actually Offaly Mayo etc. My point is No it's not red but it is a Foul so free to Derry. I want Kerry ró win as múch as the Next person but I'm just guvi g my viewpoint without tinted glasses. Yes David Clifford was booked on the wrong. So was his marker by the way. Yes some decisions went against us but we also got a few handy ones and my own opinion is maybe just maybe it was because of previous sun's. Anyway I'm just thrilled with Kerry s win but just because I don't go with the status quo some are upset No worries Ciarraimick, good to hear other views. I just didn't think it was controversial at all TBH until I came on here. David Gough was on the Colm Parkinson podcast a few weeks back where he explained his penalty decision against Cork and he said that at the refs review it was unanimous from the other refs (23 i think) that his decision was correct. Not that refs should be made explain each and every decision but a refs view on podcasts or matches such as that would be great. Sky have retired refs on the soccer to discuss controversial decisions which can be an interesting point.
|
|
pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
|
Post by pillar on Jul 17, 2023 8:54:30 GMT
Think we'll have to be very clever how we pick our first fifteen to ensure we are ahead going into the final quarter..and also have a bench to see off a Dublin onslaught. I'd nearly have a look at the likes of playing a wing back in the half forward line, like Brian O Beaglaoich. No no no no no no no no no no no no nooooooooooo please god no. We're going to have to think outside the box..the game is all about pace on the break..if you look at SOBs contribution yesterday 90% of it was defensive stuff..think he has to be left on the bench, he's a 100% go to man after yesterday
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Jul 17, 2023 8:55:26 GMT
The obsession with refs when we win is just insane. there was 4 or 5 huge calls against Kerry yesterday yet Dublin Joe was in our favour apparently.
Clifford one on one with an empty goal having his jersey pulled and he gave a free out. look at the black card - which derry scored 5 points during and gave them fierce momentum. it was neither a deliberate pull down or a trip nor was it cyncical foul, it looked like a complete accident. the clifford shoulder and yellow was a free out. Derry almost got a goal second half when Mckinless took about 10 steps. jersey pulling on clifford all day
considering all the reffing incidents this year, the gaa need to stamp down on managers and pundits publicly as there wont be any refs left.
Dublin Joe did us no favours yesterday yet youd swear that was the only reason we won.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 8:58:37 GMT
The obsession with refs when we win is just insane. there was 4 or 5 huge calls against Kerry yesterday yet Dublin Joe was in our favour apparently. Clifford one on one with an empty goal having his jersey pulled and he gave a free out. look at the black card - which derry scored 5 points during and gave them fierce momentum. it was neither a deliberate pull down or a trip nor was it cyncical foul, it looked like a complete accident. the clifford shoulder and yellow was a free out. Derry almost got a goal second half when Mckinless took about 10 steps. jersey pulling on clifford all day considering all the reffing incidents this year, the gaa need to stamp down on managers and pundits publicly as there wont be any refs left. Dublin Joe did us no favours yesterday yet youd swear that was the only reason we won. The obsession with refs when we win is only matched by our obsession with refs when we lose. I have said it a thousand times: champion teams don't let the ref have a say in the result, and only losers blame the ref.
|
|
kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,130
|
Post by kot on Jul 17, 2023 9:12:30 GMT
Jaysus, that wasn't good for the heart. But a tough battle against a very athletic team will hopefully stand to us if we got out without any injuries. I think Derry will be kicking themselves though, they really had us and spurned some more than favourable goal chances. We were struggling at midfield I thought, particularly JB was having a tough day out. We were cut open similar to how we were against Mayo and throughout the league. That would be a big worry for the final as Dublin will punish that. Aside from that, unreal guts to pull ourselves back in those last 5 minutes. I really thought we were in trouble and had all the air of some of those defeats to the Tyrone & Donegal. What is their left to say about David Clifford? The man is the greatest player I have ever seen whether live or on old footage. Sean O'Shea in the 2nd half had a fine game. Gavin White kept driving us on from the back. Shane Ryan was exemplary in goal and Stephen O'Brien had a massive say when he came on. Wonder did Dublin Joe get an attack of conscience in the latter part of the 2nd half? After years of fleecing Kerry and again in the first half, he gave us some handy calls. The hunt for tickets in 2 weeks begins! Must book the Monday off now.
|
|
|
Post by percentageplay on Jul 17, 2023 9:14:18 GMT
Morley was taken out of the game because Derry don't kick so much. The kicking or lack there of may have had something to do with but prior to the match Comer made an insightful contribution. When attacking Derry commit their corner backs/wing backs right the way into the full forward line, where as most teams hold them around the 45/65 during an attack, TOS being an example for Kerry. The effect of committing these players right the way into the full forward line during build up play is a retreating of the opposition defence towards their own goal as they have to follow the player into that area rather than just watch them move about in the 45/65 area. Hopefully I explained that well enough!
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 9:14:48 GMT
Always thought criticism of Gooch when playing Tyrone was so unfair.
He was, after all, top scorer in those games!
He went out of them... BUT... the defense was what can he do when the other team is on top?
David Clifford can make things happen even when Kerry are under the cosh.
|
|
tonydorigo
Full Member
yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
|
Post by tonydorigo on Jul 17, 2023 9:31:16 GMT
I actually agree with McGuinness on this and was only talking to someone about it during the week. Providing we get to a final and end up playing Dublin it could be a seminal moment. Not for a moment am I taking it as a given as I see Derry as a huge threat on Sunday. Your county man Liam Hayes said in his book that they used to relish keeping Dublin down as beating them made Dublin question whether they were good enough. They used to target new players on the team to make sure that they didn't establish themselves etc. That conversation is for another day anyway. Lets wait until Sunday to see where we are at!! My only point is Dublin winning the All Ireland doesn't mean that the floodgates will open and they will dominant again. Let's behonest this is likely the last dance for a few of their key fellas. Please wash your mouth out with soap after your comment about my county man. He's not my county man. Didn't mean to offend with the comment about your county man. As much of an ass as he is, his autobiography is a fantastic read for any GAA fan. It is Dublins last dance alright but they might be able to disrupt any thoughts of a new dynasty!
|
|
|
Post by glengael on Jul 17, 2023 9:32:49 GMT
I was disappointed we didn't try to take advantage of the Derry goalkeepers many sorties up the field. When the ball was turned over, as it was more than once, we could have tried the odd long ball into whatever forward was left inside or could run on to it. I think we only did it once, it didn't work, but it might have been worth a try more often just to give him pause for thought (I haven't seen the full game back yet though so the comment is made in that context).
We can't rely on David Clifford to make things happen every day. Some of the other forwards need to stand up. The pride and love for him in the crowd, young and not so young, is so palpable and lovely to see.
PS can we send some kind of petition, to the Hague or some other human right forum, to spare us the torture of listening to Daithi on All Ireland Final day?
|
|
keane
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,267
|
Post by keane on Jul 17, 2023 9:41:54 GMT
Sean O'Shea got three points from play in the second half. O'Brien kicked a beaut and won a converted free. Geaney won a converted free. That's six points out of nine I think we got in the second half? They can't all kick four from play but to say they didn't contribute is daft. Geaney created two goal chances in the first half (one converted), Paudie and DOC got good points etc
|
|
diego
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,099
|
Post by diego on Jul 17, 2023 9:53:56 GMT
Was listening to the always excellent Examiner GAA podcast where they previewed the semi finals. Maurice Brosnan mentioned that Kerry have one of the best in the business in the analytics game in Colin Trainor. I'm sure his name might have come up before here but I wasn't familiar with him. From the same Tullysaran club in Armagh as Jason McGahan. Some of his back story is included in this article from last summer. www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/07/22/news/time_out_crunching_the_numbers_behind_kerry_s_sam_charge-2778180/Was clear from his post match comments how much Jack was frustrated at being unable to get messages in to players amid the noise that comes with the closing stages of a big championship game. Could have some nuggets of tactical advice to pass on to players based on the data from upstairs, but it might never be heard inside the lines!
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Pitches on Jul 17, 2023 10:31:00 GMT
The free in for Stephen O'Brien in the 65th minute was very soft and was the key point of the game. If that was given against us we'd all feel aggrived. That's not to say we didn't kick on afterwards but it was a soft free to be given for us.
|
|
|
Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 17, 2023 10:39:51 GMT
That was a character building win yesterday.
To behonest I thought it was gone from us.
I said before the game that Dublin Joe was just a bad ref and yesterday only reinforced that.
On the Shane Ryan incident he us fully entitled to protect himself and the ball it wasn't a free let alone a card do we want to completly sanitise the game.
For years we listened to Kerry are too soft for Ulster teams.
I love the edge we now have.
|
|