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Post by greengold35 on Jul 17, 2023 10:51:39 GMT
That was a character building win yesterday. To behonest I thought it was gone from us. I said before the game that Dublin Joe was just a bad ref and yesterday only reinforced that. On the Shane Ryan incident he us fully entitled to protect himself and the ball it wasn't a free let alone a card do we want to completly sanitise the game. For years we listened to Kerry are too soft for Ulster teams. I love the edge we now have. What seems to be lost in all of this is that in terms of size, it was a mismatch. Ryan stands around @ 6’3”, momentum took him into contact with a smaller player, there was only going to be one outcome. Fair play to Shane, massive score then.
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Post by glengael on Jul 17, 2023 11:09:16 GMT
On the Shane Ryan issue, what was he doing up there in the 1st place? Is that we want our goalkeeper to be?
Also in relation to the Kerry forwards, in the 2nd half a free came back off the post, presenting a goal chance for an opportunist forward. But Derry had all the time in the world to clear it. Nearest Kerry forward, Geaney I think, didn't even react. That could be the difference another day.
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Jul 17, 2023 11:13:24 GMT
Look, Shane definitely turned his hip in to protect himself but also it created a head collision for the other player. If he is allowed do that in the context of the game then that’s fine and I’m delighted he wasn’t sanctioned and scored a point.
However it’s dangerous play, in another more physical sport that would have been a mandatory yellow if not red card. So maybe something for the GAA to look at., we don’t want any bad injuries while keeping the game physical, David’s shoulder on the other hand was perfect, Ref missed that totally,
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Post by homerj on Jul 17, 2023 11:30:28 GMT
On the Shane Ryan issue, what was he doing up there in the 1st place? Is that we want our goalkeeper to be? yes. modern game now small things make a huge difference. that point, kept us in the game in a time we were really strugling. Also in relation to the Kerry forwards, in the 2nd half a free came back off the post, presenting a goal chance for an opportunist forward. But Derry had all the time in the world to clear it. Nearest Kerry forward, Geaney I think, didn't even react. That could be the difference another day. we were set up for the restart, expecting the point. happened down other end too
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Post by thehermit on Jul 17, 2023 11:38:34 GMT
Please explain to me how it is a free. It may well have been deliberate to land the way he did, the only man that knows that for sure is Shane but it is not a free. Harold Schumacher v Patrick Batistan springs to mind. Got away with it in my view. I had to google that, before my time
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 11:45:43 GMT
On the Shane Ryan issue, what was he doing up there in the 1st place? Is that we want our goalkeeper to be? Also in relation to the Kerry forwards, in the 2nd half a free came back off the post, presenting a goal chance for an opportunist forward. But Derry had all the time in the world to clear it. Nearest Kerry forward, Geaney I think, didn't even react. That could be the difference another day. It was a free from outside the 45 and it could have dropped short any day of the week. The problem for me wasn't Geaney's reaction but that we had no other forward on the other side of the goal. I thought it criminal.
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Post by thehermit on Jul 17, 2023 11:55:56 GMT
The free in for Stephen O'Brien in the 65th minute was very soft and was the key point of the game. If that was given against us we'd all feel aggrived. That's not to say we didn't kick on afterwards but it was a soft free to be given for us. I watched the game back when I came in last night and actually sent a picture of the paused image to the lads on whatsapp because the marker did drag him down IMO. I think if you slow it down its quite a legitimate free in.
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Post by percentageplay on Jul 17, 2023 11:58:09 GMT
That was a character building win yesterday. To behonest I thought it was gone from us. I said before the game that Dublin Joe was just a bad ref and yesterday only reinforced that. On the Shane Ryan incident he us fully entitled to protect himself and the ball it wasn't a free let alone a card do we want to completly sanitise the game. For years we listened to Kerry are too soft for Ulster teams. I love the edge we now have. The excuse of protecting himself does cover this. This is not trying to sanitise the game, responsibility has to be taken for the level danger and as one poster said, in a different sport that is far more physical a card would be issued but GAA, from what I know, doesn't legislate for this. As I said if it were a Kerry player on the recieving end you wouldn't have the same opinion. Just trying to point out the blind loyalty. Also, Shane had a superb match and it was a great score. /mediaViewer?currentTweet=1680603487791460352¤tTweetUser=TheSundayGame
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Post by thehermit on Jul 17, 2023 12:00:12 GMT
On the Shane Ryan issue, what was he doing up there in the 1st place? Is that we want our goalkeeper to be? Also in relation to the Kerry forwards, in the 2nd half a free came back off the post, presenting a goal chance for an opportunist forward. But Derry had all the time in the world to clear it. Nearest Kerry forward, Geaney I think, didn't even react. That could be the difference another day. Now like most of us I get a panic attack when I see most keepers galloping up the field but I think Shane Ryan is different gravy. He's shown in the last two years that he knows exactly when to come out and when to mind the kitchen. Yesterday's point was a brilliant example of seeing an opportunity and seizing it, audentis fortuna iuvat as another poster said (fair play to Colm O'Rourke for inspiring me to dust off my Virgil )
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diego
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Post by diego on Jul 17, 2023 12:07:58 GMT
Have seen a few people mention that if he was playing another code Shane Ryan would have got a card. He was playing gaelic football though. I'd say ciarraimick's friend who thought it was a red must be a rugger man. It was a 50-50 race to the ball and whoever got there last was going to come off worse.
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Post by homerj on Jul 17, 2023 12:08:04 GMT
For years we listened to Kerry are too soft for Ulster teams. I love the edge we now have. Helped i am sure by having 3 northern lads as key members of our backroom staff
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Post by homerj on Jul 17, 2023 12:08:53 GMT
Have seen a few people mention that if he was playing another code Shane Ryan would have got a card. He was playing gaelic football though. I'd say ciarraimick's friend who thought it was a red must be a rugger man. It was a 50-50 race to the ball and whoever got there last was going to come off worse. ya too many Rugby lads gone awful soft when it comes to GAA.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 17, 2023 12:21:58 GMT
That was a character building win yesterday. To behonest I thought it was gone from us. I said before the game that Dublin Joe was just a bad ref and yesterday only reinforced that. On the Shane Ryan incident he us fully entitled to protect himself and the ball it wasn't a free let alone a card do we want to completly sanitise the game. For years we listened to Kerry are too soft for Ulster teams. I love the edge we now have. The excuse of protecting himself does cover this. This is not trying to sanitise the game, responsibility has to be taken for the level danger and as one poster said, in a different sport that is far more physical a card would be issued but GAA, from what I know, doesn't legislate for this. As I said if it were a Kerry player on the recieving end you wouldn't have the same opinion. Just trying to point out the blind loyalty. Also, Shane had a superb match and it was a great score. /mediaViewer?currentTweet=1680603487791460352¤tTweetUser=TheSundayGame Any keeper worth his salt comes and take ball and man and doesn't leave himself open to being hurt. If he went in meekly and lost the ball what would we be saying ?
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jul 17, 2023 12:37:15 GMT
In case anyone thinks the Stephen O'Brien incident wasn't a foul, look again, it's 100% a free when you see it from the other angle...
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Post by thehermit on Jul 17, 2023 12:47:54 GMT
In case anyone thinks the Stephen O'Brien incident wasn't a foul, look again, it's 100% a free when you see it from the other angle... Yeah that's exactly what I was saying above, had same picture image paused and sent around. Totally legit free. Also in case you haven't read an obviously Derry man's official take on yesterday - unbiased journalism as its best www.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/66216787
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 17, 2023 13:18:42 GMT
In case anyone thinks the Stephen O'Brien incident wasn't a foul, look again, it's 100% a free when you see it from the other angle... Yeah that's exactly what I was saying above, had same picture image paused and sent around. Totally legit free. Also in case you haven't read an obviously Derry man's official take on yesterday - unbiased journalism as its best www.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/66216787'Put the * back into the horse' comes to kind! And BTW the Derry laddo touched the ball on the ground.
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keane
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Post by keane on Jul 17, 2023 13:22:12 GMT
Have there been many instances of rugby players getting red cards for hitting people with their arse?
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Post by homerj on Jul 17, 2023 13:23:22 GMT
speaking to a couple of lads at work just now, the consensus is Ryan could easily have been sent off. defo a yellow and free out.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 13:35:28 GMT
Have there been many instances of rugby players getting red cards for hitting people with their arse? You don't want to be catching a rugby ball with your arse turned to the opposition.
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Post by seaniebo on Jul 17, 2023 13:35:39 GMT
I had an inkling prior to the match that it wouldn't be the bore fest that many predicted. Hats off to Derry.. They produced a serious performance yesterday. Arguably the best display Kerry have faced in a couple of years. They somehow found a way to lose it and Kerry somehow found a way to win it. How often in past times was it the other way around..I believe Derry found themselves in new territory and with the winning line in sight they foundered. Experience is critical down the stretch which makes this win all the more impressive from a Kerry point of view.
We certainly got a couple of very handy frees. Paul Geaney in particular was counting his blessings after he spilled the ball. I would agree that the ref didn't decide the outcome of this game. Fortunately for us Derry's conversion rate plummeted in the second half and with Kerry raising the stakes in them last few minutes, Derry's questionable decision making proved so so costly. I think they'll reflect today and know full well they had us on the rack.. Onwards for the Kingdom and a crack at the Dubs. Life is good!
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Post by rollingstone on Jul 17, 2023 13:43:43 GMT
The excuse of protecting himself does cover this. This is not trying to sanitise the game, responsibility has to be taken for the level danger and as one poster said, in a different sport that is far more physical a card would be issued but GAA, from what I know, doesn't legislate for this. As I said if it were a Kerry player on the recieving end you wouldn't have the same opinion. Just trying to point out the blind loyalty. Also, Shane had a superb match and it was a great score. /mediaViewer?currentTweet=1680603487791460352¤tTweetUser=TheSundayGame Any keeper worth his salt comes and take ball and man and doesn't leave himself open to being hurt. If he went in meekly and lost the ball what would we be saying ? "but GAA, from what I know, doesn't legislate for this". And that is the point, forget about other sports. That should be the end of the discussion. If you do want to liken it to another sport it's like two committed soccer players jumping for a header when there's only going to be one winner and the other gets clattered - (a) it rarely ever happens (b) just because the outcome is bad doesn't make it a foul
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 17, 2023 13:49:02 GMT
I watch an awful lot of rugby. The rules are complicated and I would not claim to be an expert but I can never recall seeing a player going for the ball, winning cleanly in the air, ahead of his opponent and being carded for any contact that happened while his 100% focus was on the ball.
Anyway, we were previously told that David Clifford couldn't tackle, now Shane is is in red car territory for winning a ball in the air.
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keane
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Post by keane on Jul 17, 2023 14:03:06 GMT
Have there been many instances of rugby players getting red cards for hitting people with their arse? You don't want to be catching a rugby ball with your arse turned to the opposition. I mean, from my understanding, in rugby if a guy jumps into the air to catch a ball and another man collides with him while he's in the air it's the second man who is likely to be penalised for endangering the guy who claims the ball? I haven't seen a case where a guy claims a high ball and is yellow or red carded for hitting a guy with his arse on the way down. I dunno what wanting has to do with anything
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 14:11:55 GMT
You don't want to be catching a rugby ball with your arse turned to the opposition. I mean, from my understanding, in rugby if a guy jumps into the air to catch a ball and another man collides with him while he's in the air it's the second man who is likely to be penalised for endangering the guy who claims the ball? I haven't seen a case where a guy claims a high ball and is yellow or red carded for hitting a guy with his arse on the way down. I dunno what wanting has to do with anything The principle that would be at play in rugby is "bang in the head = bad" and if this kind of thing was happening a lot I think there would be action. After that I don't think the comparison is great. A better point of comparison would be what happens around players receiving treatment for head injuries, be it during periods of sin-binning or otherwise. In rugby play might be stopped but perhaps in GAA there is scope to allow play to carry on while treatment is being administered, I don't know. If you are deadly serious around head injuries that McQ threw the ball up for Jason Foley's injury (which somehow I applaud) should be in the conversation too. I just see a load of people whinging about the ref to let their side off the hook for their failures (and to be fair to me I say that even more vociferously when we do it).
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jul 17, 2023 14:50:28 GMT
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Post by percentageplay on Jul 17, 2023 14:53:47 GMT
Any keeper worth his salt comes and take ball and man and doesn't leave himself open to being hurt. If he went in meekly and lost the ball what would we be saying ? "but GAA, from what I know, doesn't legislate for this". And that is the point, forget about other sports. That should be the end of the discussion. If you do want to liken it to another sport it's like two committed soccer players jumping for a header when there's only going to be one winner and the other gets clattered - (a) it rarely ever happens (b) just because the outcome is bad doesn't make it a foul You definitely make a fair point using the comparison of heading the ball, but perhaps the small gap between Ryan gathering the ball and the collision makes it different to a header. Anyway it's clear that people have varying opinions on it and I definitely didn't mean to divert the whole thread to it with my supposed soft opinion. I assume if a Kerry player is on the recieving end of a similar incident in the future we will all be happy for no free to be given. Back to match and the main question that has come up after a scare... What can Kerry do about the lack of a supporting cast up front?
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Jul 17, 2023 14:54:25 GMT
In case anyone thinks the Stephen O'Brien incident wasn't a foul, look again, it's 100% a free when you see it from the other angle... A still image doen't show the full picture. He lost his balance prior to entering tackle as he was head down trying to weave around players. I don't see any malice in the tackle and even Stephen himself looked surprise when it was given.
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Post by ciarraigodeo on Jul 17, 2023 15:06:54 GMT
Wow, I’m barely over that game nearly 24 hours on, it was tense. Derry will be sick for a while, we know only too well how losing a semi final like that feels. The Shane Ryan thing…in real-time it looked like he turned in the air to stop his knees going straight into McGuigan’s face. Had that happened, we would be talking about a very different result yday. The fact that he got the full force of Ryan’s arse instead is unfortunate! But I saw nothing wrong with it at the time, he went for the ball and caught it. What did McGuigan think was going to happen if he stayed where he was?! If that was James McCarthy though, I’d be spitting fire. Swings and roundabouts.
Stephen O Brien was outstanding and Paudie got a v important score at the end. With 5 mins to go before injury time, I was not in a good place mentally but did those men dig deep. Finally, thank the Lord our God for our saviour, David Clifford.
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thepope
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Post by thepope on Jul 17, 2023 15:19:39 GMT
McGuigan was going to try and tackle Shane in the air or when he landed, what was Shane supposed to do?
McGuigan moves to the contact, if you're late to a tackle you're gonna come off second best.
Think the sentiment is similar here to Seanie penalty rebound in last year's semi when he kicked keeper in face. Well that's what happens when a keeper dives at a player's feet and every keeper knows that.
It's a contact sport. McGuigan wasn't standing there minding his own business, he was moving to make contact with a player in the air which is a foul in itself.
Not every unfortunate contact is a foul.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 17, 2023 15:38:42 GMT
Revisit Ryan O'Donoghue vs Gavin White.
Was that a foul?
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