|
Post by thehermit on Jun 3, 2023 19:59:21 GMT
Sunny days, where have you gone...
|
|
|
Post by kerryblueboy on Jun 3, 2023 21:01:59 GMT
How can people say that was better then mayo if anything it was worse mayo are a good team division 1 team cork are not and we staggered over the line against them today we look unfit and leggy all year
|
|
Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,693
|
Post by Jo90 on Jun 3, 2023 21:10:16 GMT
What do you say, Just on the train home and honestly that wouldn't change my view that we are just not at the races this year. The main positive was Seanie was brilliant in that first half. Apart from that that's about it. The penalty was shocking and you'd feel rightly aggrieved if you were a Cork man. Penalty was perfect call. You can see this is when the pull-down was initiated - 2 arms around Geaney rugby style and the other 2 Cork players nowhere close enough to stop him. I've seen a couple of pictures with Geaney on the ground with 2 Cork players nearby - that proves nothing, of course they're going to be close well after the foul. Anyway Paudie Clifford was wide open in the middle just as extra proof of a goal scoring opportunity being denied. Gough completely favoured Cork and I'm sure the free count proves this. Hurley got a few frees for just throwing himself to the ground, Just after the throw-in, Kerry player pushed to the ground, no free. Cork player picks ball off the ground, no free. Powter should have been red carded, dirty late tackle on Ryan should have been yellow so the black card would then have been followed by red. Cork player shielded over sideline, free to Cork for phantom free. Cork kickout doesn't go past 21 metres, nothing given. A couple of Cork frees after kickouts for nothing. Throw-in after Cork goalie messes up kickout, free to Cork for nothing. At least another 5 refereeing errors in Cork's favour.
|
|
pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
|
Post by pillar on Jun 3, 2023 21:17:09 GMT
Think it's a combination of not having a strong panel allied to being All Ireland champions on the 24th July 2022. That's a long celebration when you consider its was always the end of September. Two extra months of backslapping can sometimes quell your hunger!!
|
|
peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,861
|
Post by peanuts on Jun 3, 2023 21:24:24 GMT
What do you say, Just on the train home and honestly that wouldn't change my view that we are just not at the races this year. The main positive was Seanie was brilliant in that first half. Apart from that that's about it. The penalty was shocking and you'd feel rightly aggrieved if you were a Cork man. Penalty was perfect call. You can see this is when the pull-down was initiated - 2 arms around Geaney rugby style and the other 2 Cork players nowhere close enough to stop him. I've seen a couple of pictures with Geaney on the ground with 2 Cork players nearby - that proves nothing, of course they're going to be close well after the foul. Anyway Paudie Clifford was wide open in the middle just as extra proof of a goal scoring opportunity being denied. Gough completely favoured Cork and I'm sure the free count proves this. Hurley got a few frees for just throwing himself to the ground, Just after the throw-in, Kerry player pushed to the ground, no free. Cork player picks ball off the ground, no free. Powter should have been red carded, dirty late tackle on Ryan should have been yellow so the black card would then have been followed by red. Cork player shielded over sideline, free to Cork for phantom free. Cork kickout doesn't go past 21 metres, nothing given. A couple of Cork frees after kickouts for nothing. Throw-in after Cork goalie messes up kickout, free to Cork for nothing. At least another 5 refereeing errors in Cork's favour. Good post.
|
|
|
Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jun 3, 2023 21:24:57 GMT
Rewatching the clip, I think it is very clear that Geaney had to explain the rules to Gough after he blew the whistle. Brilliant officiating from Paul.
|
|
|
Post by greengold35 on Jun 3, 2023 21:27:57 GMT
What do you say, Just on the train home and honestly that wouldn't change my view that we are just not at the races this year. The main positive was Seanie was brilliant in that first half. Apart from that that's about it. The penalty was shocking and you'd feel rightly aggrieved if you were a Cork man. Penalty was perfect call. You can see this is when the pull-down was initiated - 2 arms around Geaney rugby style and the other 2 Cork players nowhere close enough to stop him. I've seen a couple of pictures with Geaney on the ground with 2 Cork players nearby - that proves nothing, of course they're going to be close well after the foul. Anyway Paudie Clifford was wide open in the middle just as extra proof of a goal scoring opportunity being denied. Gough completely favoured Cork and I'm sure the free count proves this. Hurley got a few frees for just throwing himself to the ground, Just after the throw-in, Kerry player pushed to the ground, no free. Cork player picks ball off the ground, no free. Powter should have been red carded, dirty late tackle on Ryan should have been yellow so the black card would then have been followed by red. Cork player shielded over sideline, free to Cork for phantom free. Cork kickout doesn't go past 21 metres, nothing given. A couple of Cork frees after kickouts for nothing. Throw-in after Cork goalie messes up kickout, free to Cork for nothing. At least another 5 refereeing errors in Cork's favour. It was most definitely a penalty - the camera can distort & seeing it live there was no doubt in my mind; I was in section 403, North Stand & had a good view - Geaney was in & you would back him all day to find the far corner - Powter arrived late & pulled him down - the other 2 Cork guys were powerless or Powterless(!) to do anything at that stage. It was a fine move, deserved the goal & fair play to DC for slotting home.
|
|
peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,861
|
Post by peanuts on Jun 3, 2023 21:37:31 GMT
Penalty was perfect call. You can see this is when the pull-down was initiated - 2 arms around Geaney rugby style and the other 2 Cork players nowhere close enough to stop him. I've seen a couple of pictures with Geaney on the ground with 2 Cork players nearby - that proves nothing, of course they're going to be close well after the foul. Anyway Paudie Clifford was wide open in the middle just as extra proof of a goal scoring opportunity being denied. Gough completely favoured Cork and I'm sure the free count proves this. Hurley got a few frees for just throwing himself to the ground, Just after the throw-in, Kerry player pushed to the ground, no free. Cork player picks ball off the ground, no free. Powter should have been red carded, dirty late tackle on Ryan should have been yellow so the black card would then have been followed by red. Cork player shielded over sideline, free to Cork for phantom free. Cork kickout doesn't go past 21 metres, nothing given. A couple of Cork frees after kickouts for nothing. Throw-in after Cork goalie messes up kickout, free to Cork for nothing. At least another 5 refereeing errors in Cork's favour. It was most definitely a penalty - the camera can distort & seeing it live there was no doubt in my mind; I was in section 403, North Stand & had a good view - Geaney was in & you would back him all day to find the far corner - Powter arrived late & pulled him down - the other 2 Cork guys were powerless or Powterless(!) to do anything at that stage. It was a fine move, deserved the goal & fair play to DC for slotting home. It was clear to me as well and I was shouting for a peno before it was awarded.
|
|
Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,693
|
Post by Jo90 on Jun 3, 2023 21:55:39 GMT
Penalty was perfect call. You can see this is when the pull-down was initiated - 2 arms around Geaney rugby style and the other 2 Cork players nowhere close enough to stop him. I've seen a couple of pictures with Geaney on the ground with 2 Cork players nearby - that proves nothing, of course they're going to be close well after the foul. Anyway Paudie Clifford was wide open in the middle just as extra proof of a goal scoring opportunity being denied. Gough completely favoured Cork and I'm sure the free count proves this. Hurley got a few frees for just throwing himself to the ground, Just after the throw-in, Kerry player pushed to the ground, no free. Cork player picks ball off the ground, no free. Powter should have been red carded, dirty late tackle on Ryan should have been yellow so the black card would then have been followed by red. Cork player shielded over sideline, free to Cork for phantom free. Cork kickout doesn't go past 21 metres, nothing given. A couple of Cork frees after kickouts for nothing. Throw-in after Cork goalie messes up kickout, free to Cork for nothing. At least another 5 refereeing errors in Cork's favour. I agree Gough seemed to give Cork frees easier than Kerry but a free count proves nothing. If a team fouls blatantly 20 times and twenty frees are rightly given then the free count might look as the ref favouring a team but that would nt be the case. Also if you have disciplined tackling you might not concede frees. I agree bout Gough today but not because of the free count I thought he probably tried to compensate after the penalty. Yes, in those cases where one team were blatantly fouling e.g. like first Cork-Kerry minor match when Cork tactics were to stop Kerry's attacks by fouling further out. But there were no discernible difference today but still a big difference in the free count.
|
|
|
Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jun 3, 2023 21:57:09 GMT
If it wasn't a clear goal scoring opportunity and the other Cork players were coming back, then why would Powter do something so stupid? The reason is that Powter knew he was stopping a clear goal scoring opportunity. If it wasn't then why would Powter cynically foul Geaney and give away an easy free and likely a point, coupled with a card, rather than a fisted point. The analysts on Twitter showed their ignorance with the it was a free, not a penalty only as its outside the box.
David Clifford having to explain the rules to the Sunday Game journalist in the interview. I think I suffered second hand embarrassment watching it 🙄
|
|
Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,693
|
Post by Jo90 on Jun 3, 2023 21:59:11 GMT
Rewatching the clip, I think it is very clear that Geaney had to explain the rules to Gough after he blew the whistle. Brilliant officiating from Paul. Going by the reaction of those around me at the time, and the post-match interviews, Paul Geaney seems to have been the only person in Pairc Ui Chaoimh who knew about the pull-down penalty rule 😀
|
|
|
Post by kerryblueboy on Jun 3, 2023 22:06:04 GMT
Big questions still from 8 to 12 our wing forwards are not playing well need something different there Barry Dan should start against louth
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Jun 3, 2023 22:11:14 GMT
Another uninspiring lacklustre performance - forget about Gough and his officiating, our problems go deeper and time is running out to find a solution - we will muddle by Louth and probably get through a home preliminary QF before we meet a side that will punish us if we cannot find another gear in the meantime.
A few positives in that SOS and DOC played better in patches - we need more guys to start hitting the groove and fast or we won't be complaining about Dublin hotel prices this year.
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Jun 3, 2023 22:11:56 GMT
As poor as we are playing, all teams have had at Least one bad day at the office so far.
|
|
|
Post by southward on Jun 3, 2023 22:15:23 GMT
Rewatching the clip, I think it is very clear that Geaney had to explain the rules to Gough after he blew the whistle. Brilliant officiating from Paul. Going by the reaction of those around me at the time, and the post-match interviews, Paul Geaney seems to have been the only person in Pairc Ui Chaoimh who knew about the pull-down penalty rule 😀 People don't know the rule because it's so rarely utilised. And you just know that the next time there's a similar incident in a game, the forward will only get a free. This is the problem with so many aspects of refereeing; it's the inconsistency that drives people mad.
|
|
|
Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 3, 2023 22:42:33 GMT
Lads,
To those responding to my initial post regarding the penalty you'll notice I edited the post when that particular rule came to mind.
I couldn't fathom how it was given initially as was clearly outside the square.
It's just not a rule you see enforced you tend to forget about it.
Regardless Lads we were poor and if that was a D1 team we'd have lost today
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,129
|
Post by kerryexile on Jun 3, 2023 23:11:46 GMT
There is a lot going on here. In the world of human resources, when recruiting, the main theory is that past performance is the best indicator of future performance. On two occasions Jack came in and won the league and championship in the first year. Neither time did he retain the AI. Last year he came in and won the League and AI again. He is now trying hard to rectify his year two failure. It appears that he is taking on a strategy that is completely alien to Kerry football. This may be coming from Paddy Tally. Creative, skillful footballers are going through robotic performances that are seen as the way to be successful. Ignore your opinion of what you saw in Cork. This is a sausage machine. On the Saturday Game we were told our statistics were ahead of normal. That is what our sacred game has become. There is an awful lot more that could be said but if it works and Sam is in Denny Street at the end of July, who cares.
|
|
|
Post by The16thMan on Jun 4, 2023 0:08:21 GMT
Not much complaints about Kerrys performance on TSG tonight. We were praised for having 83% shot to score ratio. However I think where Kerry were very poor were the turnovers we conceded and our lack of physicality around the middle 8.
|
|
peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,861
|
Post by peanuts on Jun 4, 2023 0:21:31 GMT
People don't know the rule because it's so rarely utilised. And you just know that the next time there's a similar incident in a game, the forward will only get a free. This is the problem with so many aspects of refereeing; it's the inconsistency that drives people mad. It was used recently in football but can't remember was it the league or club championship but it was def used. It was obvious to me that Gough gave the pen for denying a clear goal chance but alot of people did nt know about that rule. Anyway a win is a win but let's freshen it up for Louth game. We still behind Cork in the table due to our scoring difference. It won't matter if Mayo bt Cork but I still think there s a twist in our group yet! It was in the Monaghan vs Mayo in the last round of the league game. A Monaghan player was pulled down going through and Doherty (I think) got a black card and Monaghan got a penalty.
|
|
peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,861
|
Post by peanuts on Jun 4, 2023 0:28:21 GMT
A lot of the people complaining about the penalty referenced the incident in the Kildare game and said it was the exact same. Paul Flynn did as well on TSG. I think the ref was right in both cases as Scully wasn’t pulled down but rather pulled back. That’s why the ref only gave the Kildare player a yellow.
|
|
|
Post by kerryblueboy on Jun 4, 2023 8:11:06 GMT
Having watched the game yesterday evening if that Sherlock shot goes into the net instead of barely over I think we are beaten we need to speed up our play go more direct quicker we did well yesterday on longer kick outs everything is just so ponderous and lethargic at the moment except for David thank god we have him
|
|
|
Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 4, 2023 8:11:36 GMT
Not much complaints about Kerrys performance on TSG tonight. We were praised for having 83% shot to score ratio. However I think where Kerry were very poor were the turnovers we conceded and our lack of physicality around the middle 8. I watched that when I got home, I was wondering if they were watching the same game as me. Fair enough we had an 83% conversation rate but you can always find a stat to support ab argument. To me we looked flat and a D1 team would have converted more of the misses that Cork had.
|
|
|
Post by thehermit on Jun 4, 2023 8:15:24 GMT
The only good thing about that second half was that the stewarding was so lax in the upper stand they didn't mind me bringing a drink to my seat 😂
Something is just not right upstairs and damned if I know what. I referenced before what the Clifford's are going through that obviously plays a part. Is it also a lack of hunger and appetites finally sated since last year as others have suggested. Is it a management gamble to just go through the motions for the group stage knowing (like the League) they'll just do enough to get through? Is the plan to just be ready mentally and physically for an intense 2,3,4 weeks of knock out, do or die games?
The latter is an attractive thought, but the straws you grasp often are 😬
|
|
|
Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 4, 2023 8:17:29 GMT
Having watched the game yesterday evening if that Sherlock shot goes into the net instead of barely over I think we are beaten we need to speed up our play go more direct quicker we did well yesterday on longer kick outs everything is just so ponderous and lethargic at the moment except for David thank god we have him What were we averaging last year ? I think 1.18 of or something like that. We don't seem to be hitting those heights this summer.
|
|
horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,047
|
Post by horsebox77 on Jun 4, 2023 8:33:02 GMT
Look, few points on yesterday, firstly, it’s a win, regardless of anything else, the win had to be secured, secondly despite Cork’s league position, they are not a bad team, Powter, Maguire, Driscoll, Hurley and Sherlock are not bad players and would challenge many other county starters, they were also at home and on the back of a win agains5 Louth.
Behind them they have a good few minors filtering through, probably more than us and in our five in a row minor wins, we were very very lucky to get beyond them on at least two occasions, I also rate Cleary and he regardless of what people think of Galway’s Walsh he is a very learned and experienced coach. Cork ARE coming just need to build consistency. Still they are not division one standard, yes, and they are not in the top five in the country.
There was an improvement in our shape, our tackling and overturns, secondly, in the first half alone Seanie and Geaney were really motoring, Geaney was directly involved in the first three or four scores, with Seanie in particular really on form, Foley too was on top of Hurley and we were holding the centre.
Our shape in midfield was an improvement in retaining possession but one thing I have noticed, for our kickouts, on several occasions Graham and Tadgh were hugging the end lines, whereas last year it was O’Beagleoich and Graham that were hugging the wings with Tadgh in the centre. In general play it was Murphy on the ‘D’ nit Tadgh. I don’t get this, because if there is a breakdown or we concede possession Tadgh is out of position for me and we are vulnerable. Maybe last years positioning will revert on the return of the An Gaeltacht man.
Similarly, although we had a higher turnover count, this was a result of triangulation by wing forwards, wing backs and one of our central players, as this invariably involved our half forward line when the ball was turned over there was no outlet, this meant the ball was not or could not be moved fast into attack but moved lateral or backward to try build up through the channels, if we retained a 3-2-1 or even a 3-1-1-1 formation this would enable strong defense but also allow an outlet to punish when we have the chance to put a team on the back foot. Spillane’s second half absence was missed here too in this regard as he was heavily involved turning over, supporting and scored a great first half point.
But look, regardless, this was two points away from home, against a team that we were going to struggle with, there was improvements, however, for me our outlet and our defensive shape when ran at looked vulnerable and needs addressing before we encounter tier one opposition.
Though Gough was very poor yesterday, the penalty was the correct call as was the clothes line tackle by Dara punishment, I don’t think he was helped by his linesmen in particular the early kickout inside the 21 by Cork. Several off the grounds as well as a few late or negative tackles went unpunished. But maybe that’s more for congress to empower linesmen to call fouls line our cross channel counterparts.
|
|
|
Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 4, 2023 8:41:07 GMT
Look, few points on yesterday, firstly, it’s a win, regardless of anything else, the win had to be secured, secondly despite Cork’s league position, they are not a bad team, Powter, Maguire, Driscoll, Hurley and Sherlock are not bad players and would challenge many other county starters, they were also at home and on the back of a win agains5 Louth. Behind them they have a good few minors filtering through, probably more than us and in our five in a row minor wins, we were very very lucky to get beyond them on at least two occasions, I also rate Cleary and he regardless of what people think of Galway’s Walsh he is a very learned and experienced coach. Cork ARE coming just need to build consistency. Still they are not division one standard, yes, and they are not in the top five in the country. There was an improvement in our shape, our tackling and overturns, secondly in the first half alone Seanie and Geaney were really motoring, Geaney was directly involved in the first three or four scores, with Seanie in particular really on form, Foley to was on top of Hurley and we were holding the centre. Our shape in midfield was an improvement in retain8ng possession but one think I have noticed for our kickouts, on several occasions Graham and Tadgh were hugging the end lines, whereas last year it was O’Beagleoich and Graham that were hugging the wings with Tadgh in the centre. I don’t get this as f there is a breakdown or we concede possession Tadgh is out of position for me and we are vulnerable. Maybe this will revert on the return of the An Gaeltacht man. Similarly, although we had a higher turnover count, this was a result of triangulation by wing forwards, wing backs and one of our central players, as this invariably involved our half forward line when the ball was turned over there was no outlet, this meant the ball was not or could not be moved fast into attack but moved lateral or backward to try build up through the channels, if we retained a 3-2-1 or even a 3-1-1-1 formation this would enable deferent but also allow an outlet to punish when we have the chance to put a team on the back foot. Spillane’s second half absence was missed here too in this regard as he was turning over, supporting and scored a great first half point. But look, regardless, this was two points away from home, against a team that we were going to struggle with, there was improvements however for me our outlet and our defensive shape when ran at was still vulnerable and needs addressing before we encounter tier one opposition. Though Gough was very poor yesterday, the penalty was the correct call as was the clothes line tackle by Dara punishment, I don’t think he was helped by his linesmen in particular the early kickout inside the 21 by Cork. Several off the grounds as well as a few late or negative tackles went unpunished. But maybe that’s more for congress to empower linesmen to call fouls line our cross channel counterparts. On Tadghs positioning I noticed Paul Murphy took up alot of the sweeper responsibility in that first half. I still felt we were leaving a bit too much space infront of Hurley even with the sweeper. Maybe I'm being to critical.
|
|
horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,047
|
Post by horsebox77 on Jun 4, 2023 8:49:40 GMT
Great minds, Royal, I had just edited my post to include that point as you posted. On a different note, did t your young lady enjoy the day out yesterday?
|
|
|
Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 4, 2023 8:54:29 GMT
Great minds, Royal, I had just edited my post to include that point as you posted. On a different note, did t your young lady enjoy the day out yesterday? Ahh Horse she loved every minute of it, Early start leaving the North East and making our way to the train. First time on a train too which she loved. The only thing was there wasn't a taxi to be found so we walked from Kent to the Pairc and back. Just about made the 5.25 train back to Dublin. A mighty walk for a soon to be 5 year old.. A great day though...
|
|
|
Post by ciarraigodeo on Jun 4, 2023 8:58:00 GMT
I think the new system is annoying because unless we lost to Louth, we were always guaranteed at least a prelim QF. It’s worse than the S8s in my opinion. Apart from maybe Mayo, there isn’t a team in the country blazing through opponents like previous years, albeit in a different competitive system. My naive self wants to believe Jack is keeping his powder dry and doing just enough to survive in the pack for now. The cold reality, however, is that Jack doesn’t like to lose, particularly in Killarney and to Mayo. I was expecting a massive performance vs Cork after that. Maybe I just have to accept that we don’t have the cuteness or squad depth to retain Sam, even in a year where everyone looks beatable. So far, it’s the most open AI series in a very long time and we could have a say yet but we need to see something inspiring on the field and on the sideline. DC not included in that obviously! Just a note on SOS, I thought he had a very good first half which he needed after Mayo.
|
|
|
Post by thehermit on Jun 4, 2023 9:08:08 GMT
Joe couldn't wait to stick two feet in:
|
|