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Post by taggert on Apr 28, 2016 15:04:00 GMT
Kilmacud dub, very good post and very little to argue with from a Kerry point of view. Must say its a hugely impressive Dublin outfit at this moment in time and sitting pitch side on Sunday I lost count of the number of Dublin players that are blessed with pace, power AND skill. We have many with 1 trait, some with two but very few with all three.
Alarmingly for Kerry though,as you point out, is their penchant for making the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome: - Putting slower players on faster players - Putting slighter players on stronger players - Playing multiple one paced big units from 8 to 12 - Devising/Executing a poor kick out strategy - Kicking aimless, low percentage ball to KD - Leaving KD isolated with no support on breaks - Leaving clearly beaten players play their way into games - Allowing inside men get dragged back into their own full back line
We haven't helped ourselves at all.
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Post by clarinman on Apr 28, 2016 15:33:41 GMT
Kealys kick outs 9 times out of 10 were won by Dublin. He kicked most of them into a bunch of players. That has to change for Kerrys sake. Dublin won most of the breaks. Kerrys half forward line didnt win much. Donnacha Walsh was quiet for his standards. Sheehan wasn't in the game. Murphy tried hard and ran all day. He was one of Kerrys better players. The high ball into Donaghy has gotten really old. Every team is onto it. I can't believe Kerry went back to it and the ball that was going in was poor. If he did win it Dublins backs were there to put pressure on him and make sure he didnt score. Tactically Gavin beat Fitzmaurice again hands down. Cluxton had loads of time. I can't believe Kerry didn't push up on him. Moran was well beaten by Fenton in the middle. Just could not stay with him. Fenton and Bastick dominated that area. Another problem for Kerry was Fionn Fitz on Kilkenny. That was a total mismatch.At the start of the game the ball was going towards the end line. Kilkenny went down to pick it up Fitzgerald had a chance to blow him and ball over the line for a goal kick but he let Kilkenny pick it up and he brushed him aside and kicked a point. That could have been a marker to lay down early but instead Kilkenny got room and time and grew in confidence. I see a lot of Kerry people saying the O'Mahony sending off changed the game. I don't think so. I think Dublin have better players and I think Kerry lost it on the Line. He shows some players too much loyalty. Marc O'Se was getting roasted by Brogan but he kept him on him. He should have changed Fionn Fitz much earlier. He kept Moran on Fenton even though he was getting beat. He should have send someone into Brendan Kealy after 10 minutes. I don't know why Tommy Walsh was not brought in cause Dublin were dominating midfield.Gooch got awful ball in the second half.Darren O'Sullivan seemed to be just running all over the field but making no impact. I have no clue what that was about. One thing about Gavin he's not afraid to take an established player off or make a change. He is constantly talking to his selectors and looking at his players. He wouldn't think twice about taking Diarmuid Connolly or Bernard Brogan off if he had to. He never lets what they have won get to them and it's all about the team. I don't think Kerry will beat Dublin this year just looking at the players they have right now. O'Donoghue Geaney and Maher are badly needed. Geaney Cooper and O'Donoghue is a dangerous full forward line but will they get enough decent ball to win games. Maher will help midfield but will he be mobile enough and fast enough to run and keep up todays midfielders. Fitzmaurice has loads of work to do and he has to bring in a few new players. There has to be a few changes from that team because it's clear that team will not win the All Ireland. Kerry will still be in the mix with Mayo Tyrone Dublin maybe Donegal. It will take a huge improvement to beat Dublin in August that's for sure. The big question is have they the belief and work ethic to match Dublin. After Sunday I have my doubts. I agree with most of what you say but you're exaggerating big time on the Kerry kickout stats. Dublin won 8 of Kerry's 19 long kickouts. Hardly 90%! dontfoul.wordpress.com/
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Post by Kilmacud Dub on Apr 28, 2016 16:28:40 GMT
This is what Kerry have to to have any chance against Dublin. First of all Dublin are in their heads. No doubt about it. He has to address what is inexcusable in my mind and that is players giving up. Last Sunday we all knew the game was over with 7 or 8 minutes to go but you never drop the head. I saw several Kerry players walking around not even running after their men waiting for the whistle to blow. I think it kinda tells you right there that something is wrong with this squad. I don't care what the score is you never stop. Isn't that what we tell young fellas. Don't quit don't give up. If I was playing for Kerry and I was losing I would at least run after my man and hit him a shoulder or have some respect for myself. Also it told Dublin that if we go 5 or 6 points up on this team they will give up. It that what will happen in August if they play Dublin. They go 5 or 6 points down and they give up. If I was Fitzmaurice I don't care who it is Colm Cooper, Marc O'Se if they give up they're coming off and not playing anymore. I think it was more embarrassing to see Kerry players not trying. So mentally that has to change. They have to get their fight and hunger and desire back. Brendan Kealy is Kerrys best Keeper no doubt in my mind. He had a great year last year and he is very good one on one. He needs to work on his kick outs and have a strategy. Kerry players have to practice the quick kick out with him. So for me he starts. Lets be honest the chances are good Dublin will play Kerry. Dublin will win Leinster and Kerry will probably Cork and they will need a tough game. By that time the back line will be changed. I expect O'Beaglaoich to be at No.2 Aidan O'Mahony will at no.3 and Shane Enright bill be at No.4. Dublin will keep their usual line up unless they have injuries. I expect Mannion at no.13 Andrews at no.14 and Brogan at no.15. I would go O'Beaglaoich on Mannion O'Mahony on Andrews and Enright on Brogan. Crowley at no.5 Mark Griffin at no.6 and Paul Murphy at no.7. I know Kerry fans won't to hear it but let's be real. Kerry need pace and tight markers in the backs. He had a great year up front but Kerry are seriously thin at the Back. He has good speed and they need him there. Him and Crowley would play as attacking wing backs. Crowley would take Kilkenny and Murphy with Flynn. Griffin on Connolly. Kerry have to go one on one the sweeper won't work against Dublin. They are too fast and athletic. Kerry will have to move the ball as fast as Dublin to have any chance. Midfield is a serious problem for Kerry. I was thinking about Tommy Walsh but he's gone now. David Moran won't beat Fenton. Enter Brendan O'Sullivan. Why not he has a bit of pace and drive about him. He's tough hard south Kerry man. He will have some games and hard training done by then. If Kerry can get Maher back to fitness. I think he can do a job on Bastick. So that's my Midfield. Kerry won no breaking balls the last day. They will need to crowd midfield and try and gain some loose ball around that area. Johnny Buckley David Moran and Darren O'Sullivan would be them. David Moran for me at No.11 could give Cian O'Sullivan problems and keep him honest. I think Buckley would be fine on Johnny Small. For me Kerrys danger is coming from James McCarthy. He's a pacey strong player and Kerry will need a fast player to track him all day. I think Darren O'Sullivan is that man. He has pace he will stay with and put him on the back foot also with his urging runs. I know Donnacha Walsh has a lot of fans in Kerry but he can't run with McCarthy. Donnacha is a good player but at this stage he is better coming off the bench. If Kerry can stop him and Cian O'Sullivan from coming forward that will be a huge accomplishment. Paul Geaney Colm Cooper and James O'Donoghue are the inside. If Kerry stand a chance they have to get them the ball. Them 3 are as good as any if they get supply. I think if Darren Sullivan Moran and Buckley can get them good ball they will get the Goals needed. Kerry have to score goals to beat Dublin. They will have to their is no way around it. They will have to 3 or 4 goals and the 3 of them can get goals. Byrne Cooper and McMahon will probably be in the full back line. Cooper and McMahon love to get forward But if James O'Donoghue keep scoring they will have to stay back. I didn't pick Sheehan. He was poor on Sunday and seems to lack the bottle for Dublin at least for a whole game. The thing about this team is Kerry will have a strong bench. I would gladly throw Donaghy Donnacha Sheehan Marc O'Se Stephen O'Brien maybe Killian Young on with 15 or 20 minutes to go. They will come on fresh and if it's a tight game who knows. I would not be surprised to see Mark O'Connor also last years minor on the panel by then. He's very young but very athletic could be the type of player to bring on with 10 minutes left. He's a great fielder. I post this because I believe Dublin can go and dominate Gaelic Football. They could go on and win 4 or 5 in a row if some team can't step up and while it's great for Dublin it wouldn't be great for Gaelic. You never want to only see one team winning all the time. I think Kerry are one of the few teams who could pull off a surprise. Fitzmaurice has to make a lot of changes not just on the field but also in the minds. Their attitude has to change and work even harder now. They must believe themselves they can and more importantly for Fitzmaurice he has to believe tactically that he can get the better of Gavin. If Kerry gets things right and turn things around by August I think they have a chance and we could have another Dublin v Kerry classic. If not it could be worse than Sunday for them. Only the players and Manager can make it happen. Football is not a complicated game. I think it has become more sophisticated for sure. The bottom line is work hard and train hard. Dublin train extremely hard. I mean I have seen them train. It's like they have nothing won. They work and fight for each other on the field and go until that final whistle. Gavin demands a certain level from them and they give it to him no questions asked. Looking at Kerry Fitzmaurice does not have that from certain players. He needs to get it before August if he can Kerry could do it. The Kerry players have to be hurting. If they have the use the revenge angel then they should whatever it will take them to beat them because for Gaelic and themselves they have to beat Dublin next time. I am a Dublin man with 2 Kerry grandparents and I have an interest in Kerry Gaa. I am also a GAA fan. I think we need 4 or 5 teams every year to be fighting for Sam. It makes the game better. We will just have to watch the summer and see how it pans out. Should be a fascinating year.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 28, 2016 20:36:10 GMT
Kimacud Dub... that was an interesting read........ but jesus.... put in a few paragraphs in the next one.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 28, 2016 21:48:22 GMT
Kimacud Dub... that was an interesting read........ but jesus.... put in a few paragraphs in the next one. That's honestly the reason I didn't read it, sore on the eyes with no paragraphs
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Post by Control5 on Apr 29, 2016 7:01:44 GMT
This is what Kerry have to to have any chance against Dublin. First of all Dublin are in their heads. No doubt about it. He has to address what is inexcusable in my mind and that is players giving up. Last Sunday we all knew the game was over with 7 or 8 minutes to go but you never drop the head. I saw several Kerry players walking around not even running after their men waiting for the whistle to blow. I think it kinda tells you right there that something is wrong with this squad. I don't care what the score is you never stop. Isn't that what we tell young fellas. Don't quit don't give up. If I was playing for Kerry and I was losing I would at least run after my man and hit him a shoulder or have some respect for myself. Also it told Dublin that if we go 5 or 6 points up on this team they will give up. It that what will happen in August if they play Dublin. They go 5 or 6 points down and they give up. If I was Fitzmaurice I don't care who it is Colm Cooper, Marc O'Se if they give up they're coming off and not playing anymore. I think it was more embarrassing to see Kerry players not trying. So mentally that has to change. They have to get their fight and hunger and desire back. Brendan Kealy is Kerrys best Keeper no doubt in my mind. He had a great year last year and he is very good one on one. He needs to work on his kick outs and have a strategy. Kerry players have to practice the quick kick out with him. So for me he starts. Lets be honest the chances are good Dublin will play Kerry. Dublin will win Leinster and Kerry will probably Cork and they will need a tough game. By that time the back line will be changed. I expect O'Beaglaoich to be at No.2 Aidan O'Mahony will at no.3 and Shane Enright bill be at No.4. Dublin will keep their usual line up unless they have injuries. I expect Mannion at no.13 Andrews at no.14 and Brogan at no.15. I would go O'Beaglaoich on Mannion O'Mahony on Andrews and Enright on Brogan. Crowley at no.5 Mark Griffin at no.6 and Paul Murphy at no.7. I know Kerry fans won't to hear it but let's be real. Kerry need pace and tight markers in the backs. He had a great year up front but Kerry are seriously thin at the Back. He has good speed and they need him there. Him and Crowley would play as attacking wing backs. Crowley would take Kilkenny and Murphy with Flynn. Griffin on Connolly. Kerry have to go one on one the sweeper won't work against Dublin. They are too fast and athletic. Kerry will have to move the ball as fast as Dublin to have any chance. Midfield is a serious problem for Kerry. I was thinking about Tommy Walsh but he's gone now. David Moran won't beat Fenton. Enter Brendan O'Sullivan. Why not he has a bit of pace and drive about him. He's tough hard south Kerry man. He will have some games and hard training done by then. If Kerry can get Maher back to fitness. I think he can do a job on Bastick. So that's my Midfield. Kerry won no breaking balls the last day. They will need to crowd midfield and try and gain some loose ball around that area. Johnny Buckley David Moran and Darren O'Sullivan would be them. David Moran for me at No.11 could give Cian O'Sullivan problems and keep him honest. I think Buckley would be fine on Johnny Small. For me Kerrys danger is coming from James McCarthy. He's a pacey strong player and Kerry will need a fast player to track him all day. I think Darren O'Sullivan is that man. He has pace he will stay with and put him on the back foot also with his urging runs. I know Donnacha Walsh has a lot of fans in Kerry but he can't run with McCarthy. Donnacha is a good player but at this stage he is better coming off the bench. If Kerry can stop him and Cian O'Sullivan from coming forward that will be a huge accomplishment. Paul Geaney Colm Cooper and James O'Donoghue are the inside. If Kerry stand a chance they have to get them the ball. Them 3 are as good as any if they get supply. I think if Darren Sullivan Moran and Buckley can get them good ball they will get the Goals needed. Kerry have to score goals to beat Dublin. They will have to their is no way around it. They will have to 3 or 4 goals and the 3 of them can get goals. Byrne Cooper and McMahon will probably be in the full back line. Cooper and McMahon love to get forward But if James O'Donoghue keep scoring they will have to stay back. I didn't pick Sheehan. He was poor on Sunday and seems to lack the bottle for Dublin at least for a whole game. The thing about this team is Kerry will have a strong bench. I would gladly throw Donaghy Donnacha Sheehan Marc O'Se Stephen O'Brien maybe Killian Young on with 15 or 20 minutes to go. They will come on fresh and if it's a tight game who knows. I would not be surprised to see Mark O'Connor also last years minor on the panel by then. He's very young but very athletic could be the type of player to bring on with 10 minutes left. He's a great fielder. I post this because I believe Dublin can go and dominate Gaelic Football. They could go on and win 4 or 5 in a row if some team can't step up and while it's great for Dublin it wouldn't be great for Gaelic. You never want to only see one team winning all the time. I think Kerry are one of the few teams who could pull off a surprise. Fitzmaurice has to make a lot of changes not just on the field but also in the minds. Their attitude has to change and work even harder now. They must believe themselves they can and more importantly for Fitzmaurice he has to believe tactically that he can get the better of Gavin. If Kerry gets things right and turn things around by August I think they have a chance and we could have another Dublin v Kerry classic. If not it could be worse than Sunday for them. Only the players and Manager can make it happen. Football is not a complicated game. I think it has become more sophisticated for sure. The bottom line is work hard and train hard. Dublin train extremely hard. I mean I have seen them train. It's like they have nothing won. They work and fight for each other on the field and go until that final whistle. Gavin demands a certain level from them and they give it to him no questions asked. Looking at Kerry Fitzmaurice does not have that from certain players. He needs to get it before August if he can Kerry could do it. The Kerry players have to be hurting. If they have the use the revenge angel then they should whatever it will take them to beat them because for Gaelic and themselves they have to beat Dublin next time. I am a Dublin man with 2 Kerry grandparents and I have an interest in Kerry Gaa. I am also a GAA fan. I think we need 4 or 5 teams every year to be fighting for Sam. It makes the game better. We will just have to watch the summer and see how it pans out. Should be a fascinating year.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Apr 29, 2016 10:00:14 GMT
Good one Kilmacud. One thing, all sports are simple and must b kept simple, but the amateur aspect is not so, and that has a lot to do with why we have such a disparity in quality with most counties having no prospect of winning silver any day soon. I don't envy The Dubs and in fairness Kerry want for nothing in terms of funding. I think The Dubs progress in hurling is not given the credit it deserves and hopefully Kerry can now emulate that, the drubbing The Cats got lately with the big ball is frightening, can counties only do one?
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Post by himself on Apr 29, 2016 10:04:24 GMT
I can't say that I agree with all of it, Kilmacud, but that is a superb post. I rate both Bryan and Donnchadh highly and I don't want the extremely talented Mark O'Connor into senior too soon; he has more football played already than most people will get in a lifetime. With the modern emphasis on strength and conditioning (allied to high skill levels; something too often ignored in favour of glib analysis in my opinion), I don't weant players rushed from grade to grade too fast. Also,while I congratulate Dublin on a fantastic senior team coming from a brilliantly organised development system, I do believe that their winning margins are not reflective of their dominance (we were well within scoring distance until the last ten minutes both last Sunday and last September, despite having been thoroughly outplayed, same with Mayo in the semi-final games last year). I remember the idea of unbeatable future dominance being said of ourselves and Tyrone previously and it didn't materialise. I'm not knocking the phenomenal achievements of this Dublin team, and they are of course deserved favourites, but I am less convinced than most that they are so far ahead of the chasing pack or, with our own juvenile talent coming onstream, that we are so far behind. "I am also a GAA fan. I think we need 4 or 5 teams every year to be fighting for Sam. It makes the game better. We will just have to watch the summer and see how it pans out. Should be a fascinating year." I agree with every word of that bit. Roll on the summer!
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 29, 2016 10:38:20 GMT
I can't say that I agree with all of it, Kilmacud, but that is a superb post. I rate both Bryan and Donnchadh highly and I don't want the extremely talented Mark O'Connor into senior too soon; he has more football played already than most people will get in a lifetime. With the modern emphasis on strength and conditioning (allied to high skill levels; something too often ignored in favour of glib analysis in my opinion), I don't weant players rushed from grade to grade too fast. Also,while I congratulate Dublin on a fantastic senior team coming from a brilliantly organised development system, I do believe that their winning margins are not reflective of their dominance (we were well within scoring distance until the last ten minutes both last Sunday and last September, despite having been thoroughly outplayed, same with Mayo in the semi-final games last year). I remember the idea of unbeatable future dominance being said of ourselves and Tyrone previously and it didn't materialise. I'm not knocking the phenomenal achievements of this Dublin team, and they are of course deserved favourites, but I am less convinced than most that they are so far ahead of the chasing pack or, with our own juvenile talent coming onstream, that we are so far behind. "I am also a GAA fan. I think we need 4 or 5 teams every year to be fighting for Sam. It makes the game better. We will just have to watch the summer and see how it pans out. Should be a fascinating year." I agree with every word of that bit. Roll on the summer! Good post himself, I'd agree with it the main. I might take slight issue with your reference to Dublin's winning margins against the top teams, Kerry Mayo etc. I'd expect a possible All-Ireland semi final game between Kerry and Dublin, if it emerges, to be no more than a 3-5 point game either way, and on merit and reflective of the teams.
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Post by yourholiness on Apr 29, 2016 11:22:22 GMT
[/quote]Cheers yourholiness (and welcome)
Kerry are always a bit slow to bring on younger players. 24 is usually the age but things may change now. Darren was 19 in 2005 when brought in against Tyrone and Tyrone really feared his introduction that day.
When Gilroy brought in all his new team in 2010 he went very defensive and no one got exposed ...like poor Peader Andrews did v Ollie Murphy...remember that from way back.
One of last years minor footballers, Jack Goulding is being exposed to the inter county senior alright and up against uncompromising corner backs and he is doing alright but its for the Kerry hurlers. About half the Clare hurlers in 2013 were under 21.
I have always been of the view that Kerry are too loyal to long servants and too slow to bring in youth but thats the way of it. [/quote]
Thanks Mickmack . I hasten to add Dublin had a very similar culmination to the league in 2014 and all the talk was of Dublin invincibility so nothing is certain . I think Kerry just need a change of approach . To an outsider it's as though Kerry are in a period of transition but no one told eamonn fitzmaurice who is still trying to squeeze an all Ireland out of a number of players, who though many other panels in the country could not afford to discard, are not playing at the level associated with Kerry . In most of those cases it's hard to imagine they will improve as the deficits are physicality pace and age . The impression I got was that Kerry dearly wanted to win the league but it was hard to identify a discernible plan strategy to achieve that .
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Post by Dermot on Apr 29, 2016 11:43:24 GMT
The single one thing about Dublin which puts them so far ahead of anyone else this last few years (esp now) is their incredible strength in depth ... Has any team ever had such a complete panel of players ? I would say that, apart from Cluxton, Dublin could painlessly replace just about any player fairly seamlessly.. e.g. Imagine having to mark someone like B Brogan and then McMenamin (or a host-full of others just as good) comes running on for the last 20 minutes or so ... No one else has that !! Even if they were like other teams with a bench who arent as good as whats on the field, they'd still be incredibly difficult to beat, the whole Strength in Depth thing makes it twice as hard..
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 29, 2016 13:09:00 GMT
Kimacud Dub... that was an interesting read........ but jesus.... put in a few paragraphs in the next one. That's honestly the reason I didn't read it, sore on the eyes with no paragraphs He has written two well constructed and well thought out analysis pieces on our team, players and approach and apparent attitude. I don't agree with everything, but I think you should hang tough, your eyes will get through them. They're worth reading. One player who didn't throw in the towel was Darran. I agree With Kilmac and even before last Sunday know we have a psychological barrier to cross as well as a footballing one with Dubin now. I also know that no two years are alike. We lost a league final not Sam last Sunday, and while there is a massive challenge ahead, we have 4 months, and we don't know what might happen in that time. We will go again and again and again... Someone once said to me "I can tell you now what you need to do to become a millionaire" Immediately biting, I said "What???" "Whatever it takes!!"
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Apr 29, 2016 13:54:35 GMT
There is one thing to which we all must accede and that is the quality of this Dublin side and that for us to beat them is a huge problem to be solved. But solved it must be and solved it will be. Posters on here have been blazing away at everyone and everything and that’s understandable - people that are hurting are going to criticize and I’m not going to push back on anybody for that.
This Dublin set up is something we have not encountered before and is undoubtedly a huge challenge to us and everybody else out there with aspirations for Sept. They are more professional and complete than anything we have encountered previously and it looks like they have indeed created a centipede by gluing earwigs together! Overcoming them is not going to be easy, but that’s the challenge. We cannot be content with simplistic answers, or suspend the inquiry in the face of the complexity of the problem. Any team that goes into a Championship game without a plan for the ‘kick-out’ (from both ends) cannot claim to be fully prepared and will be punished severely by Dublin and other top sides. Possession of the ball is mission critical. Last Sunday was a classic example of what not to do. Expecting Cluxton to be skying balls towards our ‘ball hawks’ in the middle of the field is just not going to happen.
It’s hard to explain why our experienced players cannot transfer their game from the training pitch to the game. Good ballplayers were uncharacteristically fumbling and miss-handling clean ball. When this happened back in September we blamed the weather but it was there again last Sunday. Challenges are not supposed to paralyse you; they’re supposed to bring out the best in Championship players.
Mention the throw in – obviously no preparation here and there has never been with this side. Mark has been a great player for Kerry but Brogan has his number for a while now and the sideline left Mark down. I am not going to scapegoat him but he needs to perform a lot better than he has been. Just because he has done it over the years doesn’t mean its ok for him to fail. I would also wonder as to why Peter always seems to run out of puff so easily. God knows he’s a hardy buck but he doesn’t seem to have the stamina one would expect from a man so blessed physically. I think most managers are familiar with the phrase, “what gets measured gets done,” On the other hand, maybe we are holding these men to standards that should not be applied to amateur sports.
Training and preparation, cocooned behind closed doors, is an issue that does not sit well with our supporters. Like it or not I’m afraid that’s how most counties do it and it’s unlikely to change, under this management anyway, and there is no point in piling more wet turf on that one. One issue that arises from this practice is that we don’t know who is being given an opportunity and what young players are being assessed in their ascension toward readiness. This is a never ending debate, in part because it's so subjective. My own opinion is that the best players in the county are on the panel and quite a few of these prospects will ‘flame out’ before realising their apparent potential, as they always do. I am reliably informed that anybody that has shown any reasonable claim for inclusion has been looked at and that is what you would expect.
Now that the League is over I would expect that the training panel of 32 will be reviewed and that business of the preparation of the assault on the Championship will begin in earnest. I think also that the widely held presumption that our way of doing business is unique and worthy of universal admiration no longer applies and is an abuse of reality. It’s time to look at problems in many different ways (even if this entails relocating some big name players) and find new perspectives that no one else has taken. We have survived many challenges to our supremacy in the past and we are not about to surrender to either panic or despair
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Post by Premier on Apr 29, 2016 14:27:51 GMT
That's honestly the reason I didn't read it, sore on the eyes with no paragraphs He has written two well constructed and well thought out analysis pieces on our team, players and approach and apparent attitude. I don't agree with everything, but I think you should hang tough, your eyes will get through them. They're worth reading. One player who didn't throw in the towel was Darran. I agree With Kilmac and even before last Sunday know we have a psychological barrier to cross as well as a footballing one with Dubin now. I also know that no two years are alike. We lost a league final not Sam last Sunday, and while there is a massive challenge ahead, we have 4 months, and we don't know what might happen in that time. We will go again and again and again... Someone once said to me "I can tell you now what you need to do to become a millionaire" Immediately biting, I said "What???" "Whatever it takes!!" I got around to it alright, Control putting it into paragraphs helped!
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Post by Ballyfireside on Apr 29, 2016 19:12:00 GMT
Maybe we just had a bad day at the office, a v bad one, we are in a much better place that we were in '14?, we are Kerry, talk to non-Kerry people who have been around a while and see what they say, I did so in '14 and I was told that Dubs were there for the taking and that the only ones who would write that Kerry team off v Donegal was a fool, and right they were. Now Dublin look v good, but nothing or nobody is infallible. We have spring bigger surprises and so has Éamonn, and so will Éamonn!
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 29, 2016 19:37:28 GMT
There is one thing to which we all must accede and that is the quality of this Dublin side and that for us to beat them is a huge problem to be solved. But solved it must be and solved it will be. Posters on here have been blazing away at everyone and everything and that’s understandable - people that are hurting are going to criticize and I’m not going to push back on anybody for that. This Dublin set up is something we have not encountered before and is undoubtedly a huge challenge to us and everybody else out there with aspirations for Sept. They are more professional and complete than anything we have encountered previously and it looks like they have indeed created a centipede by gluing earwigs together! Overcoming them is not going to be easy, but that’s the challenge. We cannot be content with simplistic answers, or suspend the inquiry in the face of the complexity of the problem. Any team that goes into a Championship game without a plan for the ‘kick-out’ (from both ends) cannot claim to be fully prepared and will be punished severely by Dublin and other top sides. Possession of the ball is mission critical. Last Sunday was a classic example of what not to do. Expecting Cluxton to be skying balls towards our ‘ball hawks’ in the middle of the field is just not going to happen. It’s hard to explain why our experienced players cannot transfer their game from the training pitch to the game. Good ballplayers were uncharacteristically fumbling and miss-handling clean ball. When this happened back in September we blamed the weather but it was there again last Sunday. Challenges are not supposed to paralyse you; they’re supposed to bring out the best in Championship players. Mention the throw in – obviously no preparation here and there has never been with this side. Mark has been a great player for Kerry but Brogan has his number for a while now and the sideline left Mark down. I am not going to scapegoat him but he needs to perform a lot better than he has been. Just because he has done it over the years doesn’t mean its ok for him to fail. I would also wonder as to why Peter always seems to run out of puff so easily. God knows he’s a hardy buck but he doesn’t seem to have the stamina one would expect from a man so blessed physically. I think most managers are familiar with the phrase, “what gets measured gets done,” On the other hand, maybe we are holding these men to standards that should not be applied to amateur sports. Training and preparation, cocooned behind closed doors, is an issue that does not sit well with our supporters. Like it or not I’m afraid that’s how most counties do it and it’s unlikely to change, under this management anyway, and there is no point in piling more wet turf on that one. One issue that arises from this practice is that we don’t know who is being given an opportunity and what young players are being assessed in their ascension toward readiness. This is a never ending debate, in part because it's so subjective. My own opinion is that the best players in the county are on the panel and quite a few of these prospects will ‘flame out’ before realising their apparent potential, as they always do. I am reliably informed that anybody that has shown any reasonable claim for inclusion has been looked at and that is what you would expect. Now that the League is over I would expect that the training panel of 32 will be reviewed and that business of the preparation of the assault on the Championship will begin in earnest. I think also that the widely held presumption that our way of doing business is unique and worthy of universal admiration no longer applies and is an abuse of reality. It’s time to look at problems in many different ways (even if this entails relocating some big name players) and find new perspectives that no one else has taken. We have survived many challenges to our supremacy in the past and we are not about to surrender to either panic or despair Peter's gas tank was certainly questionable after last drawn Munster final,however, he was top man for Kerry last Sunday by some distance and as someone rightly put was putting out fires all day and still kicked two fine points from multiple raids. The game was up and like many others was bawlixed. I think it was justifiable.
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Post by kerrythekingdom on Apr 29, 2016 20:54:19 GMT
Suggested Kerry team that would have pace for Dublin Kelly O begley, M Griffin, Enright Young, Crowley, Lyne Maher Brendan O Sullivan Darren Sull, Paul Murphy, Stephen O B P Geaney, Donaghy/Gooch, James O D
plenty of high quality subs for each position for second half
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 29, 2016 21:28:34 GMT
It might be no harm to have a look back at the Mayo -Dublin drawn game from 2015
Mayo conceeded Cluxtons kickouts to Dublin and didnt bother running around trying to get the ball back till Dublin brought it to the half way line at which point a red and green line met them . Dublin looked flummoxed then. Mayos lack of scoring forwards ultimately undid them.
Too much energy was expended by Kerry forwards in chasing shadows on the Dublin restart all to no avail.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 29, 2016 23:02:35 GMT
Cheers yourholiness (and welcome) Kerry are always a bit slow to bring on younger players. 24 is usually the age but things may change now. Darren was 19 in 2005 when brought in against Tyrone and Tyrone really feared his introduction that day. When Gilroy brought in all his new team in 2010 he went very defensive and no one got exposed ...like poor Peader Andrews did v Ollie Murphy...remember that from way back. One of last years minor footballers, Jack Goulding is being exposed to the inter county senior alright and up against uncompromising corner backs and he is doing alright but its for the Kerry hurlers. About half the Clare hurlers in 2013 were under 21. I have always been of the view that Kerry are too loyal to long servants and too slow to bring in youth but thats the way of it. [/quote] Thanks Mickmack . I hasten to add Dublin had a very similar culmination to the league in 2014 and all the talk was of Dublin invincibility so nothing is certain . I think Kerry just need a change of approach . To an outsider it's as though Kerry are in a period of transition but no one told eamonn fitzmaurice who is still trying to squeeze an all Ireland out of a number of players, who though many other panels in the country could not afford to discard, are not playing at the level associated with Kerry . In most of those cases it's hard to imagine they will improve as the deficits are physicality pace and age . The impression I got was that Kerry dearly wanted to win the league but it was hard to identify a discernible plan strategy to achieve that . [/quote] I wouldn't be convinced at all that winning last Sunday was do or die for Kerry, or the nonsensical notion that Dublin are in Kerry's heads.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 29, 2016 23:27:54 GMT
The main thing that won the 2005 final for Tyrone was turnovers... Kerry bringing the ball into the tackle and losing it. Kerry won the midfield hands down.
I heard Colm Parkinson on the radio today saying that the stats on Leicesters march to the premiership are unique. They pass the ball less than any team. The number of passes by them completed are the lowest. However, the stats that measure interceptions show Leicester miles ahead of everyone. Their game is all about turnovers and a quick breakaway goal. Maybe their manager was watching a video of the 2005 all ireland final!!
Some achievement all the same ....... though i havent seen any of their games. I stopped watching English soccer about five years ago.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 29, 2016 23:32:00 GMT
It might be no harm to have a look back at the Mayo -Dublin drawn game from 2015 Mayo conceeded Cluxtons kickouts to Dublin and didnt bother running around trying to get the ball back till Dublin brought it to the half way line at which point a red and green line met them . Dublin looked flummoxed then. Mayos lack of scoring forwards ultimately undid them. Too much energy was expended by Kerry forwards in chasing shadows on the Dublin restart all to no avail. Great points Mick. Mayo had Dublin by the throat, sword drawn, in the replay, somebody roared "Mercy", and they stuck the sword into themselves instead. Huge credit of course to Dublin's will and belief that was key as they turned it around. Our forwards were doing Jack of all Trades stuff for the kickouts, and not achieving anything. Yet we then lost almost every breaking ball in the middle as we didn't in most cases have matching numbers to compete with players Dublin committed. You're totally right, we need to completely re-assess how we're approaching playing Dublin formation and strategy wise. I'm most worried how similar last Sunday was to the AI, inferring that management gambled on "bad day last September" strategy. Let's try again, it will be different...mmm
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 29, 2016 23:41:00 GMT
Cheers yourholiness (and welcome) Kerry are always a bit slow to bring on younger players. 24 is usually the age but things may change now. Darren was 19 in 2005 when brought in against Tyrone and Tyrone really feared his introduction that day. When Gilroy brought in all his new team in 2010 he went very defensive and no one got exposed ...like poor Peader Andrews did v Ollie Murphy...remember that from way back. One of last years minor footballers, Jack Goulding is being exposed to the inter county senior alright and up against uncompromising corner backs and he is doing alright but its for the Kerry hurlers. About half the Clare hurlers in 2013 were under 21. I have always been of the view that Kerry are too loyal to long servants and too slow to bring in youth but thats the way of it. Thanks Mickmack . I hasten to add Dublin had a very similar culmination to the league in 2014 and all the talk was of Dublin invincibility so nothing is certain . I think Kerry just need a change of approach . To an outsider it's as though Kerry are in a period of transition but no one told eamonn fitzmaurice who is still trying to squeeze an all Ireland out of a number of players, who though many other panels in the country could not afford to discard, are not playing at the level associated with Kerry . In most of those cases it's hard to imagine they will improve as the deficits are physicality pace and age . The impression I got was that Kerry dearly wanted to win the league but it was hard to identify a discernible plan strategy to achieve that . [/quote] I wouldn't be convinced at all that winning last Sunday was do or die for Kerry, or the nonsensical notion that Dublin are in Kerry's heads. [/quote] Given our results against Dublin, especially the last two performances, three in a row Championship losses, why is it nonsensical to suggest Dublin are in Kerry's heads? That and considering Tyrone's record against us in 2000s? I believe we have psychological scars to deal with playing them. I'm sure that Dublin have Kerry in their heads, differently. In their minds they "know" they will beat Kerry every time will play. It's a hugely powerful factor.
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MeathExile
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Post by MeathExile on Apr 29, 2016 23:44:26 GMT
Methinks Mickey Harte will be quite happy with last week, all the talk re Dublin supremacy. I can see them winning Ulster, cope with a quarter against someone like Cavan, and beating Mayo by a point in a dour, low-scoring, controversial semi. Going into a final as underdogs against the high-scoring supreme Dubs or a triumphant Kerry, and sneaking away with the big prize after a huge performance....
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 29, 2016 23:45:09 GMT
Suggested Kerry team that would have pace for Dublin Kelly O begley, M Griffin, Enright Young, Crowley, Lyne Maher Brendan O Sullivan Darren Sull, Paul Murphy, Stephen O B P Geaney, Donaghy/Gooch, James O D plenty of high quality subs for each position for second half Not a bad selection KTK. Two concerns: 1) Lack of size 2) Lack of height
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 30, 2016 0:42:36 GMT
Cheers yourholiness (and welcome) Kerry are always a bit slow to bring on younger players. 24 is usually the age but things may change now. Darren was 19 in 2005 when brought in against Tyrone and Tyrone really feared his introduction that day. When Gilroy brought in all his new team in 2010 he went very defensive and no one got exposed ...like poor Peader Andrews did v Ollie Murphy...remember that from way back. One of last years minor footballers, Jack Goulding is being exposed to the inter county senior alright and up against uncompromising corner backs and he is doing alright but its for the Kerry hurlers. About half the Clare hurlers in 2013 were under 21. I have always been of the view that Kerry are too loyal to long servants and too slow to bring in youth but thats the way of it. Thanks Mickmack . I hasten to add Dublin had a very similar culmination to the league in 2014 and all the talk was of Dublin invincibility so nothing is certain . I think Kerry just need a change of approach . To an outsider it's as though Kerry are in a period of transition but no one told eamonn fitzmaurice who is still trying to squeeze an all Ireland out of a number of players, who though many other panels in the country could not afford to discard, are not playing at the level associated with Kerry . In most of those cases it's hard to imagine they will improve as the deficits are physicality pace and age . The impression I got was that Kerry dearly wanted to win the league but it was hard to identify a discernible plan strategy to achieve that . I wouldn't be convinced at all that winning last Sunday was do or die for Kerry, or the nonsensical notion that Dublin are in Kerry's heads. [/quote] Given our results against Dublin, especially the last two performances, three in a row Championship losses, why is it nonsensical to suggest Dublin are in Kerry's heads? That and considering Tyrone's record against us in 2000s? I believe we have psychological scars to deal with playing them. I'm sure that Dublin have Kerry in their heads, differently. In their minds they "know" they will beat Kerry every time will play. It's a hugely powerful factor.[/quote] That's a load of ballox fitz, ask the lads from '55,'75 or '09!
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 30, 2016 7:54:22 GMT
Suggested Kerry team that would have pace for Dublin Kelly O begley, M Griffin, Enright Young, Crowley, Lyne Maher Brendan O Sullivan Darren Sull, Paul Murphy, Stephen O B P Geaney, Donaghy/Gooch, James O D plenty of high quality subs for each position for second half Not a bad selection KTK. Two concerns: 1) Lack of size 2) Lack of height Height is only something you could possibly label at the half forward line. Every other section has adequate enough height
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Post by kerrythekingdom on Apr 30, 2016 8:05:16 GMT
Not a bad selection KTK. Two concerns: 1) Lack of size 2) Lack of height True Fitzwop - was thinking that re height - but Dublin play a basketball style of football and height matters a lot less against them
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 30, 2016 8:44:26 GMT
Thanks Mickmack . I hasten to add Dublin had a very similar culmination to the league in 2014 and all the talk was of Dublin invincibility so nothing is certain . I think Kerry just need a change of approach . To an outsider it's as though Kerry are in a period of transition but no one told eamonn fitzmaurice who is still trying to squeeze an all Ireland out of a number of players, who though many other panels in the country could not afford to discard, are not playing at the level associated with Kerry . In most of those cases it's hard to imagine they will improve as the deficits are physicality pace and age . The impression I got was that Kerry dearly wanted to win the league but it was hard to identify a discernible plan strategy to achieve that . I wouldn't be convinced at all that winning last Sunday was do or die for Kerry, or the nonsensical notion that Dublin are in Kerry's heads. Given our results against Dublin, especially the last two performances, three in a row Championship losses, why is it nonsensical to suggest Dublin are in Kerry's heads? That and considering Tyrone's record against us in 2000s? I believe we have psychological scars to deal with playing them. I'm sure that Dublin have Kerry in their heads, differently. In their minds they "know" they will beat Kerry every time will play. It's a hugely powerful factor.[/quote] That's a load of ballox fitz, ask the lads from '55,'75 or '09! [/quote] The Kerry team in 09 after complete dominance of Dublin through the 2000s, even after a shocking Championship up to 1/4 final scraping past Sligo and Antrim, playing gash football, got news of the draw against Dublin on train home after Antrim. Reaction was "glee", they turned in the best performance of any team that year destroying Dublin. They had it over Dublin, they "knew" it, mentally I'd argue it was the trigger to turn " going well in training" but poor match day showing to that point into proper "game form". Do you think Dublin's players, management and even supporters mental attitude is not contributing to their dominance over us at present in any way?
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 30, 2016 8:56:01 GMT
True Fitzwop - was thinking that re height - but Dublin play a basketball style of football and height matters a lot less against them Not sure. Marc who's no short ass was beaten over his head by Bernard when it mattered last week. Our half backs aren't tall. Physically Lyno, Killian, Stephen, Murph despite his lion heart and O'Beaglaioch could be vulnerable
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Post by wayupnorth on Apr 30, 2016 8:56:02 GMT
The complete destruction of Dublin in 2009 by a Kerry team that was written off by everyone should have messed with their heads so completely that we could have assumed dominance over them for years to come. That didn't happen. The following year they came to Killarney and beat us at home for the first time in ages (it was only the League!). We haven't beaten them in the Championship since.
Whatever they got after '09, we badly need a dose of it now!
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