Kerry v Dublin NFL Final - Sun 24th April

[Sons of Pitches]

What game plan will Fitz play this time round?

[Kingdomson]

Apr 10, 2016 17:52:31 GMT Sons of Pitches said:

What game plan will Fitz play this time round?

Now that's the question? Did Éamonn over-think the All-Ireland final? Were we more concerned about Dublin strengths than playing to our own? All academic as the fella say’s at this point. In the All Ireland final, Dublin dictated the terms of that game from start to finish as they did in our last league game. We cannot allow that to happen again.

Some are pondering the question, is this the right time to meet Dublin? I would imagine Éamonn and the squad are only delighted with the opportunity. Given our recent history with Dublin, we can’t meet them soon enough as far as I’m concerned. Whatever happens, we’re going to learn a hell of lot about ourselves as we face into the summer campaign of 2016. Will this be just a phoney war? Not a chance – there’s a national title up for grabs and a statement to be made against our rivals. We can ponder August/September when it’s here.

[Mickmack]

It must be a piece of cake playing in the Dublin half back and fullback lines. The sheer level of the harrying and tackling being done by Dublins fullforward line and particularly their half forward when the opposition is trying to build from the back means that the ball being played into the Dublin defence is never more than 50:50.

In my opinion that workrate plus their ability to kick points from play between the 21 line and the 45 line (like we saw yesterday from Kilkenny and Andrews) means that Dublin remain the number one team.

[Deleted]

Away from the match for a moment - with full rounds of club championships scheduled next weekend for all grades, what is the likelihood that Fitzmaurice will let them go ahead? I would have thought he would call off matches involving Kerry players and defer it to the weekend after the Kerry game??

With regard to the game I think Kerry are in a perfect place going into it - I think they will win it and will set a marker for a potential AI semi final later in the year

[clarinman]

35 euro for a stand ticket. Seems a bit steep for a league final.

[Jigz84]

Apr 11, 2016 10:24:56 GMT clarinman said:

35 euro for a stand ticket. Seems a bit steep for a league final.

Price increase due to the 1916 celebrations after the 2 games.

[keane]

Wonder will the tactical approach show an acknowledgement of the fact that disrupting a high % of the Dublin kickouts is unachievable and look to skin the cat a different way.

[royalkerryfan]

My observation would be to target COS and bring him for a stroll around the park.
He is the main man in that Dublin team in my opinion.

[baurtregaum]

Apr 11, 2016 11:55:09 GMT royalkerryfan said:

My observation would be to target COS and bring him for a stroll around the park.
He is the main man in that Dublin team in my opinion.

Agreed, but who do you put on him to achieve this and how would this be done?

Every time Donegal did kick in a decent ball on Sunday or was still a 2v 1 situation with reinforcements flooding back also. Scoring a goal against Dublin is very difficult.

[keane]

You can't bring COS around the park because he won't follow anyone.

[greengold35]

Apr 11, 2016 7:47:39 GMT @waitingonasunnyday said:

Away from the match for a moment - with full rounds of club championships scheduled next weekend for all grades, what is the likelihood that Fitzmaurice will let them go ahead? I would have thought he would call off matches involving Kerry players and defer it to the weekend after the Kerry game??

With regard to the game I think Kerry are in a perfect place going into it - I think they will win it and will set a marker for a potential AI semi final later in the year

All games are going ahead next week end as scheduled, second rounds on week end after League final.

[royalkerryfan]

Apr 11, 2016 12:16:09 GMT keane said:

You can't bring COS around the park because he won't follow anyone.

If you put Gooch or Darren on him would he just let them wander off? would the temptation not be to follow?

[keane]

Apr 11, 2016 12:41:46 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Apr 11, 2016 12:16:09 GMT keane said:

You can't bring COS around the park because he won't follow anyone.

If you put Gooch or Darren on him would he just let them wander off? would the temptation not be to follow?

I'm pretty sure what would happen is someone else would come to pick the forward up while COS does his sweeper thing.

After that the descent into Lar Corbett chasing Tommy Walsh around the field farce would be too close for comfort.

[keane]

FWIW I do think there's something to be said for putting someone into the space he likes to operate in to try and disrupt him, but not sure how effective it would be. He's a marvellous footballer.

[royalkerryfan]

Apr 11, 2016 12:50:42 GMT keane said:

FWIW I do think there's something to be said for putting someone into the space he likes to operate in to try and disrupt him, but not sure how effective it would be. He's a marvellous footballer.

Paul Murphy? I agree it's not a simple just taking him out of the game but if we can nullify him to some degree we have a shot at beating them.

[kerryexile]

You can’t make a defender mark you or follow you.

What you can do, if the defender insists on staying at the edge of the square, is focus the action further out so then he has a choice of being redundant or playing in an area where he doesn’t want.

The options then are take long range points or have Stephen O’Brien or Darren at full speed taking flicks from Gooch 45 metres out and going straight for goal. No breaking ball – no sweeping.

Of course this means the high ball can only be a “Plan B” option – and if used Donaghy or Walsh should not be catching it – should be breaking it with players reading the break.

[kerrygold]

Eamonn probably won't put a flip chart under the hill and outline game plans to any great extent in this game. Cian O'Sullivan won't leave the house either, only a smart dog can be led on a lead when there is something tangible in it for him. Putting a player on Cian O'Sullivan who thinks like a sweeper but reacts on the ball like an attacker might be interesting to reduce his space in front of the D. As far the piece of cake, a piece of cake is only as good as the ingredients gone into it. Dublin are Black Forest Gateau at the moment with lashings of fresh cream. Not sure what to make of Kerry's approach seeing as the club championship seems to be going ahead at the weekend. Kamikaze for this one might exactly be the doctors prescription and not an exercise in over thinking and over baking the game. Anyone for tennis?

[Mickmack]

Apr 11, 2016 11:10:40 GMT keane said:

Wonder will the tactical approach show an acknowledgement of the fact that disrupting a high % of the Dublin kickouts is unachievable and look to skin the cat a different way.

You touched on this previously and one wonders should Kerry consider Mayos approach from 2015 when they conceeded every Cluxton kickout to Dublin and then met them full on in the middle of the field with a wall of jerseys. Had Mayo had Kerrys forwards Mayo would have beaten Dublin in 2015.

What amazes me is that teams give Cluxton three options to go short.... up the middle to CHB position is one and then two more options....to either wing. Cluxton is not that comfortable hitting a spinning ball out to his right as it can overcarry to the sideline. Why dont teams close down the middle and the left side option and just give him that right side option and then move cover over to the right hand side. Its too easy for Cluxton at the moment. Good and all as he is.

[buck02]

Apr 11, 2016 15:07:28 GMT Mickmack said:

Apr 11, 2016 11:10:40 GMT keane said:

Wonder will the tactical approach show an acknowledgement of the fact that disrupting a high % of the Dublin kickouts is unachievable and look to skin the cat a different way.

You touched on this previously and one wonders should Kerry consider Mayos approach from 2015 when they conceeded every Cluxton kickout to Dublin and then met them full on in the middle of the field with a wall of jerseys. Had Mayo had Kerrys forwards Mayo would have beaten Dublin in 2015.

What amazes me is that teams give Cluxton three options to go short.... up the middle to CHB position is one and then two more options....to either wing. Cluxton is not that comfortable hitting a spinning ball out to his right as it can overcarry to the sideline. Why dont teams close down the middle and the left side option and just give him that right side option and then move cover over to the right hand side. Its too easy for Cluxton at the moment. Good and all as he is.

In the league game this year Dublin's kickouts involved the backs together in a bunch and then scattering in different directions, the mayhem of the scattering leaving a player in space and of course Cluxton found him. Kerry Under 21s adopted something similar in the 2nd half against Cork last week.

I very much doubt however that Dublins kickout strategy in the league final and Kerrys strategy to take it on will be the same approach that will be applied between the two sides on August 28th.

[Mickmack]

This video illustrates Dublins ability to defend and to stymie the attacking options of the opposition. I know that Kerry had a weakened team out in the league game but in my view they did the same to Kerry in the final of 2015.

I think its vital that Star is at 14 and Tommy Walsh is at 11. This would give the defenders the option of clearing it long and high when under pressure and it would give Cian OSullivan something to think about.

The only goal chances that Dublin cough up now are from the high diagonal ball. Their regular fullback is gone for 2016.

[Premier]

Apr 12, 2016 18:38:08 GMT Mickmack said:

This video illustrates Dublins ability to defend and to stymie the attacking options of the opposition. I know that Kerry had a weakened team out in the league game but in my view they did the same to Kerry in the final of 2015.

I think its vital that Star is at 14 and Tommy Walsh is at 11. This would give the defenders the option of clearing it long and high when under pressure and it would give Cian OSullivan something to think about.

The only goal chances that Dublin cough up now are from the high diagonal ball. Their regular fullback is gone for 2016.

Throwing out the whole idea of the league in terms of Murphy at 11 and Donaghy at midfield. No chance of happening

[keane]

That's a brilliant video, thanks very much for putting it together.

FF line wildly isolated watching it back. No runs from deep from a HF line that was around midfield all day.

We've changed our style a lot since, with way more penetrating runs from the HB and HF lines which is vital.

[Mickmack]

Apr 12, 2016 20:04:49 GMT keane said:

That's a brilliant video, thanks very much for putting it together.

FF line wildly isolated watching it back. No runs from deep from a HF line that was around midfield all day.

We've changed our style a lot since, with way more penetrating runs from the HB and HF lines which is vital.

I concentrated on just displaying how easily Dublin got the ball back when Kerry had it. Several of the Dublins scores came directly from such situations/turnovers.

[royalkerryfan]

Slightly off topic but the price of a league final ticket is a disgrace. 50% increase on the semi final.

[dano]

Kerry's fitness and gameplan have improved a lot since that first night in January.This will be a different game altogether.

[Mickmack]

Apr 12, 2016 22:43:37 GMT dano said:

Kerry's fitness and gameplan have improved a lot since that first night in January.This will be a different game altogether.

I put it to you Dano that Kerry couldnt make any headway last September either in the face of the same defensive system by the Dubs!!

[fitz]

Apr 11, 2016 12:50:42 GMT keane said:

FWIW I do think there's something to be said for putting someone into the space he likes to operate in to try and disrupt him, but not sure how effective it would be. He's a marvellous footballer.

Is he really marvellous? I don't agree. He is marvellous at his job, yes, a fine athlete, very composed but I'm not sure the skill set and application of same meet that bar.

[fitz]

Apr 11, 2016 15:35:06 GMT buck02 said:

Apr 11, 2016 15:07:28 GMT Mickmack said:

You touched on this previously and one wonders should Kerry consider Mayos approach from 2015 when they conceeded every Cluxton kickout to Dublin and then met them full on in the middle of the field with a wall of jerseys. Had Mayo had Kerrys forwards Mayo would have beaten Dublin in 2015.

What amazes me is that teams give Cluxton three options to go short.... up the middle to CHB position is one and then two more options....to either wing. Cluxton is not that comfortable hitting a spinning ball out to his right as it can overcarry to the sideline. Why dont teams close down the middle and the left side option and just give him that right side option and then move cover over to the right hand side. Its too easy for Cluxton at the moment. Good and all as he is.

In the league game this year Dublin's kickouts involved the backs together in a bunch and then scattering in different directions, the mayhem of the scattering leaving a player in space and of course Cluxton found him. Kerry Under 21s adopted something similar in the 2nd half against Cork last week.

I very much doubt however that Dublins kickout strategy in the league final and Kerrys strategy to take it on will be the same approach that will be applied between the two sides on August 28th.

Depends on produce of strategy and end of match score and result.

[fitz]

Apr 11, 2016 13:47:29 GMT kerrygold said:

Eamonn probably won't put a flip chart under the hill and outline game plans to any great extent in this game. Cian O'Sullivan won't leave the house either, only a smart dog can be led on a lead when there is something tangible in it for him. Putting a player on Cian O'Sullivan who thinks like a sweeper but reacts on the ball like an attacker might be interesting to reduce his space in front of the D. As far the piece of cake, a piece of cake is only as good as the ingredients gone into it. Dublin are Black Forest Gateau at the moment with lashings of fresh cream. Not sure what to make of Kerry's approach seeing as the club championship seems to be going ahead at the weekend. Kamikaze for this one might exactly be the doctors prescription and not an exercise in over thinking and over baking the game. Anyone for tennis?

Love cake and cream. A welcome yet also envious analogy to the upcoming fixture.

[fitz]

I think we absolutely have to stop focusing solely about the problems they pose. This was a malaise that filled the entire management and player squad in AI final and caused the entire team to puke their year's work up over 70 mins.

The focus must be on what we're going to inflict on then. Every player has to work til they die, but we have to 'play'. We need a system for defensive cover but we don't need a system to out system theirs. We can't replicate the speed they have but they don't have a forward like Gooch. We use the Gooch as he was put on this earth to do, to destroy defences and buckle the scoreboard. He is ready. We use the fastest forward in the country to unhinge draw fouls, kick points and create goals. We make every effort to play this game on our terms, and end this unbeaten run of theirs.