kot
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Post by kot on Apr 27, 2016 14:52:10 GMT
Its been the case for the last 5 years .. Having Cluxton on your team is like having another one or two players roaming about .. He's that good at what he does .. Never has a keeper had such an influence and I just cant see how any keeper in the future could ever have more. ... He's the single most important player on that Dublin team .. in Ireland in fact. What age is he now anyway and is it not about time he fecked off and gave someone else a chance lol 34 isnt he? And hes a keeper, generally can keep going a bit while longer as long as work commitments aren't an issue. Hes around for another while yet. BTW, you must be quietly happy with Sunday and thinking of putting it up to the Dubs in September? Mayo a hurdle on your side but not insurmountable. And this is assuming of course you continue the rise in form since last year through Ulster this year. Great ew value for Sam
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 15:03:57 GMT
Dublin were not afraid to bring young guys in when needed. Ciaran Kilkenny Cormac Costello Brian Fenton Jack McCaffrey was another fella. They were all playing senior at 19 or 20. They lost McCaffrey and O'Carroll but young David Byrne and Johnny Small have stepped in and not missed a beat plus they added Paul Mannion and Eoin O'Gara to the forwards and that's made the forwards stronger. My cousin plays in Dublin and he told he thinks u21 player Con O'Callaghan will be called into the senior panel for the championship it gives them another option. His father Maurice played for Dublin in the 80s. A lot of Dublin people like him. Fitzmaurice has been loyal to his veterans but he must know it's time now to make changes.
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Post by Dermot on Apr 27, 2016 15:46:40 GMT
yourholiness... are you a dub fan.... you said earlier than EF is taking Kerry down a road that wont beat dublin...what should he being doing in your view I am a dub Mickmack . I just feel that fitzmaurice has adopted short termism at a time when Kerry football needs a visionary . I feel that the constitution of the Kerry team is wrong at the moment in terms of age, physique and pace . I think 2014 victory perhaps drew a halt to a rebuild that is necessary . I don't understand the approach . I would if I thought the current crop could squeeze a final all Ireland out of them but i don't get that impression . I hasten to add Kerry have proven me wrong before and as dubs we are probably all too eager to see a demise where things may not be so dramatic. In essence I just feel a rebuild was required before now . I' won't name players because these are amateurs but I will say there are a number of players, when names on the Kerry team , that make me feel Confident that Dublin will prevail. These are not all necessarily the older lads . Kerry will get it right but I think it seems a bit directionless at present , but then things often do in April . That makes a lot of sense!
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Post by Dermot on Apr 27, 2016 15:55:55 GMT
Its been the case for the last 5 years .. Having Cluxton on your team is like having another one or two players roaming about .. He's that good at what he does .. Never has a keeper had such an influence and I just cant see how any keeper in the future could ever have more. ... He's the single most important player on that Dublin team .. in Ireland in fact. What age is he now anyway and is it not about time he fecked off and gave someone else a chance lol 34 isnt he? And hes a keeper, generally can keep going a bit while longer as long as work commitments aren't an issue. Hes around for another while yet. BTW, you must be quietly happy with Sunday and thinking of putting it up to the Dubs in September? Mayo a hurdle on your side but not insurmountable. And this is assuming of course you continue the rise in form since last year through Ulster this year. Great ew value for Sam Yeah he's a teacher isnt he so you're probably right .. years left yet lol Yeah, happy enough with Sunday and no disrespect to Cavan but Dublin they arent.. I think our pace & playmakers could possibly cause the Dubs problems if we ever get to meet them but IMHO we're maybe missing a sturdy back like Gormley and a flying finisher like Canavan or S O'Neill of 05 vintage to really put one over on them .. I hope Im wrong though but its not good when we dont yet have a consistent free taker .. By Championship time, I think it'll be essential to have reliable free taker in place as the free counts will undoubtedly go up. Def worth a few pounds though at 10/1
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 27, 2016 17:04:27 GMT
I'm delighted we made the final despite the tearing we got. This Dublin side are the real deal and they came into this game wanting the victory as much as we did. One thing is is that we have been given an excellent opportunity to meet them at more or less championship pace just prior to the main event. Eamon Fitz is no fool and I think he will make the necessary changes in personnel, approach and tactics to take on the Dubs in August ( should we make it ). Last Sundays game was a good game of football and was quiet close until the latter stages but I never felt that we were going to take them as the intensity and pace were grinding us down. There are a few things that have to be looked at, If Kealy is to be retained he will have to be better prepared, to see him collecting the tee and ball from separate locations in a big game and walking to the kick out spot while never looking outfield for a potential early target is remarkable. Diarmuid Murphy is a keepers coach I'm told !!?? now this is a basic and very simple thing to change and of course will require the whole teams response. I don't know who is at fault but clearly the players are not expecting a quick kick out as their backs are turned to their keeper for far too long as they take up their expected positions, positions that Mr Gavin knows they will return to,,, predictable isn't the word. He doesn't seem to have the ability to "ping" the ball to a player that does make himself available and floats the ball out giving the opposition far too much time to get a tackle in, we lost far too many kick outs as a result of that style in my opinion. The goal was unfortunate but it was ultimately the full picture when all the jigsaw pieces of our failed kick out strategy were put in place. Other concerns are the highball and his worrying tendency to take too much out of the ball when it is sometimes played back to him. Fionn did not have a good game last Sunday and he should have got the curly finger much sooner. I'm sorry I know he's a good footballer but he simply does not have the required physique at this level and as a result has no stopping power, he is very often too far off his man to get in a decent tackle or win a fifty fifty ball and against the dublin forwards this wont do as he was left trailing time after time on sunday. How many times are our corner forwards Darren in particular winning ball while sprinting away from the posts without a viable runner to take the ball at pace, we seem to then stay messing around with it while the defence goes into total lockdown. The dubs are always running for each other and always seeking out open space to give good options to the player in possession. They were tearing holes in our defence last Sunday as a result of their commitment and support play ( who aren't running around in circles tipping the ball to each other minding possession on the forty ) by screaming past our forty heading straight for our backline which is resulting in fouls and all too often scores. Donaghy has been very effective this year at midfield when we are playing other teams but with Cluxton orchestrating the dubs they are for the most part able to keep the ball away from our big men in the middle. To be fair he did quit well providing protection last Sunday while he was out there but the dubs are quiet happy to have him as far as possible away from their square. While on that point it was no harm for Eamon to finally mention how he is being treated by refs. Kilkenny and Manion have great speed and this affords them the opportunity to win ball and use it well after using the natural gift of speed and if you pull them to slow them it's a straight free. Donaghy is six foot five inches tall and his natural skill is his ability to out jump opponents and distribute the ball with his fast hands, problem is that not only is he being bear hugged to prevent him from using his particular natural skill of jumping, at least one of his wrists is being constantly held so he usually can only use one hand to try to win the ball. Clearly there seems to be a mindset out there that his height is too much of an advantage and therefore I won't blow the attempts to equalise the defenders disadvantage. One thing that galls me is the clear lack of a plan to support him when he does go in, it's frustrating to see two or three players around him without a Kerry jersey in sight. In the training ground Eamon will have to have gooch close to him and the likes of Jameso or Darren screaming by when the high one comes in then he will break it to them and won't have to win it cleanly, Christ this is a basic tactic and has frightening potential. I know a few guys well involved in the Dublin GAA scene and they are very afraid of him, in fact they say they can manage every other forward but him and have referenced their relief at the lack of a plan to use him correctly by Kerry. Some posters see only doom and gloom but I for one think the 11 point loss might be just the kick in the nuts we needed to jolt us into reality and that reality is that the dubs are preparing for every team with military precision. They are using pre rehearsed collective tactics to creat space for Cluxton to make different plays and hit players who are running into predetermined areas to either collect the ball or to pull Kerry players to a particular location so that the next set play can be made by them. Jim McGuinness brought this extreme tactical element to the table and now Gavin has moved it on with a talented group of young confident players who would stand on their heads in the middle of the game if Gavin told them to. Eamon has much work to do and hard decisions to make but he will have the licence to make them now, he will know we need more speed in attack and defence. Lyne has great pace and has to be in the mix if we meet them later in the year, we will have Jameso there and his pace will create space for others as well being a real threat himself, good luck to him and to Kerry as the man says "were not bate yet" Great post GC
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Post by Kingdomson on Apr 27, 2016 17:13:29 GMT
Mike Quirke: Only the boo-boys lack class for Dublin Wednesday, April 27, 2016By Mike Quirke You could feel it building around Kerry all last week. A sort of guarded sense of hope. Nothing cocky - how could you be against your chief tormentors of recent years? But the optimism of a solid league campaign had started to seep its way into Kerry’s consciousness. Basic logic would suggest Dublin had to be a weaker group than last September. They were now without their All-Star full back Rory O’Carroll, last year’s footballer of the year Jack McCaffrey and impact sub extraordinaire Alan Brogan… You can’t just replace those guys without a few stumbles, right? When you desperately want something to be true, it’s always easier to convince yourself that the chasing pack had gained ground on the champions. Kerry were on a roll after a spring burst that saw old legs rejuvenated, and an untypical spike in April confidence. This was no ordinary league fixture. With a packed house in Croke Park, and an opportunity to knock the champions off their lofty pedestal and end their unbeaten run, this game mattered far more to the Munster champions than it did to Dublin. From the Kerry perspective, it seemed the time was right for a little pay-back. But that’s what hope does to you. Lulls you into a false sense of security, you forget just how good these guys really are, and why exactly they are unbeaten for an incredible 22 games. As Kerry people, I’d like to think we have an appreciation of good football and great teams. And I cringe listening to some of the nonsensical excuses about referees, missing personnel, or any other meaningless retort as to why Dublin have our number at present. The harsh reality is they’re just better than Kerry. And that’s a tough one to swallow. They are the superior team and have harnessed a plethora of blue-chip performers that are still some distance ahead of Kerry and every other team. Dublin have always had athletes, gazelle-like humans capable of running hard for inordinate periods of time at speed. But this current pack have the traditional skills to match their athleticism. They have adapted to their new environment and can play ball with you if you want, they are completely unselfish in their defending for each other, and still manage to play the game with an attacking verve for 70 minutes that’s beautiful to behold. Unsurprisingly, kick-outs again proved to be the imponderable conundrum for Kerry from both sides of the pitch. Brendan Kealy will be very disappointed with his distribution from the tee, with the second-half error punished by Paul Flynn the low point of a malfunctioning kick-out strategy that hurt Kerry all day. But it can’t be all on Kealy, there’s plenty of blame to be shared around. The first part of every successful kick pass starts with the guy who makes a run into space. When you compare the movement and willingness the Dublin players were showing Stephen Cluxton to the options facing the Kerry keeper, you can see why it was such a struggle to get enough ball up to the forwards. With a lack of options, Kealy made some bad decisions and started forcing kicks into very tight windows to find a man. Dublin had him - and Kerry - cracked. Strangely Kerry decided to abandon the zonal marking that brought us relative success against Cluxton and go man-for-man on the Dublin kick-out. It didn’t work and probably contributed to Kerry’s lack of legs in the final quarter, such was the ground they were covering before the ball was even in play. Cluxton had acres of space to pop balls into to pick out his receivers on the run. Lesson learned. If the result and second-half performance didn’t taste well on the palate for Kerry people, another aspect of the game that really turned my stomach was the portrayal of Kieran Donaghy as some sort of panto villain for the amusement of the Dublin supporters. The booing of an amateur player in a huge game in front of his family and friends in Croke Park should have no place in the GAA. This isn’t the Premier League; supporters don’t contribute to players earning huge sums of money every week. Don’t try to fool yourself into thinking because you paid for a seat in Croke Park you have a right to engage in that kind of mob mentality and boo a guy every time he touches the ball because you don’t like the way he acts on the field. And before Kerry supporters get too indignant, there were plenty in green and gold who gave Stephen Cluxton similar treatment as he sauntered up the field to take frees and 45s during last year’s All Ireland final. That was equally distasteful. They’ll justify it by saying it was directed at the referee’s timekeeping as much as the player. Either way, it was wrong. Booing a player to the extent we heard last Sunday is a classless act and has no place in our association, whether you are Cluxton, Donaghy or anybody in between. People will point to Aidan O’Mahony’s sending off as the crucial factor that led to Dublin twisting the knife, but I’m not buying that. No doubt it hurt Kerry - they had no chance of winning after his dismissal. But I never got a sense all afternoon Kerry would win the game, even with 15 players. They were always just about clinging on with our finger nails. In fact, if anything Dublin got uncharacteristically sloppy after the sending off and had a number of unforced turnovers that kept Kerry in the game for longer than they should have been. It was a humbling day to be a Kerry player or supporter. Dublin did to us what we have done to so many down the years. We had hoped to see proof of what we were thinking… that we were getting closer to knocking them off their pedestal, but these Dubs are the real deal. They don’t care about Kerry. They’re too busy chasing history and silverware. www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/mike-quirke-only-the-boo-boys-lack-class-for-dublin-395281.html--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brilliant article by Mike Quirke in the Irish Examiner. Is there a more honest writer on GAA matters? I think not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 18:07:44 GMT
Good Article alright. The Booing will always happen you will always have so called supporters you have hate for another player or team. I agree with his assessment of the O'Mahony sending off I also think Kerry would have lost if he stayed or not. Kerry were struggling to stay with Dublin. The older guys were tiring fast at that stage. After flynns goal a lot of the Kerry players just gave up at that stage they knew there was no way back. There is no stopping this Dublin team. No one knows what they can achieve or how far they can go. It is a relatively young team. Cluxton Brogan and Bastick are over 30. Most of them are mid to late twenties. They seem to add youth every year to the panel to keep it competitive. If they win it this year Brogan Bastick and Cluxton will surely hang in there for the 3 in a row. If they get back O'Carroll and McCaffrey next year there is no telling what can happen. Some people in Dublin already think this is the best Dublin team ever. A few more All Irelands and it could be the best ever. We will have to wait and see.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 27, 2016 21:51:50 GMT
yourholiness... are you a dub fan.... you said earlier than EF is taking Kerry down a road that wont beat dublin...what should he being doing in your view I am a dub Mickmack . I just feel that fitzmaurice has adopted short termism at a time when Kerry football needs a visionary . I feel that the constitution of the Kerry team is wrong at the moment in terms of age, physique and pace . I think 2014 victory perhaps drew a halt to a rebuild that is necessary . I don't understand the approach . I would if I thought the current crop could squeeze a final all Ireland out of them but i don't get that impression . I hasten to add Kerry have proven me wrong before and as dubs we are probably all too eager to see a demise where things may not be so dramatic. In essence I just feel a rebuild was required before now . I' won't name players because these are amateurs but I will say there are a number of players, when names on the Kerry team , that make me feel Confident that Dublin will prevail. These are not all necessarily the older lads . Kerry will get it right but I think it seems a bit directionless at present , but then things often do in April . Cheers yourholiness (and welcome) Kerry are always a bit slow to bring on younger players. 24 is usually the age but things may change now. Darren was 19 in 2005 when brought in against Tyrone and Tyrone really feared his introduction that day. When Gilroy brought in all his new team in 2010 he went very defensive and no one got exposed ...like poor Peader Andrews did v Ollie Murphy...remember that from way back. One of last years minor footballers, Jack Goulding is being exposed to the inter county senior alright and up against uncompromising corner backs and he is doing alright but its for the Kerry hurlers. About half the Clare hurlers in 2013 were under 21. I have always been of the view that Kerry are too loyal to long servants and too slow to bring in youth but thats the way of it.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Apr 27, 2016 22:01:20 GMT
No other Keeper in the land has the kick out code cracked like Cluxton, albeit he's team mates are heavily implicated in it's success. Maybe we are not fully acknowledging a genius at work in our demands for others to replicate his greatness. Dublin's kick outs have by now become just one component in a very well oiled machine. It's a fine point. I think when discussing Kealy's performance, yes, we benchmark against Cluxton, but I think we've read enough commentary on this thread, of enough things Kealy could be doing or be instructed (if not already) to be doing that would improve his worth and our return outfield, that is not necessarily aligned with "keeping up with the Cluxtons"
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 27, 2016 22:31:02 GMT
David Morans distribution was very good in the first half. I just watched that half again tonight. Bryan Sheehan was hardly in the game at all in the first half. Some of the Kerry scores in that half were top notch. SOB was doing really well. Dublin got a grip towards the end mainly from being put in possession directly from the Kerry kickout. One of Bernards points when he fielded over Marc, swivelled and pointed was a beauty.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 27, 2016 22:43:59 GMT
No other Keeper in the land has the kick out code cracked like Cluxton, albeit he's team mates are heavily implicated in it's success. Maybe we are not fully acknowledging a genius at work in our demands for others to replicate his greatness. Dublin's kick outs have by now become just one component in a very well oiled machine. It's a fine point. I think when discussing Kealy's performance, yes, we benchmark against Cluxton, but I think we've read enough commentary on this thread, of enough things Kealy could be doing or be instructed (if not already) to be doing that would improve his worth and our return outfield, that is not necessarily aligned with "keeping up with the Cluxtons" We all watch the Tiger but none us can win Majors or even play scratch. Dublin's decoy runs are so fluid and Cluxton so sharp and pin point on the delivery with exceptional kicking skill I'm not sure if his kick outs can be consistently cracked. No coincidence that all Dublin's half forward line are exceptional fielders. Fenton is a new addition to the conundrum, he is top drawer and could become the greatest midfielder on the scene since Jacko. McCarty and Cian O'Sullivan are great fielders also. All are also great ball players. Were expending a lot of energy talking and thinking about Cluxton while stoning our own keeper, who happens to be a great shot stopper and is the current All-Star in that position. We need something new, no point in going to the same deep well with the same short rope all the time hoping to catch the pale.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 27, 2016 22:47:28 GMT
Dublin were not afraid to bring young guys in when needed. Ciaran Kilkenny Cormac Costello Brian Fenton Jack McCaffrey was another fella. They were all playing senior at 19 or 20. They lost McCaffrey and O'Carroll but young David Byrne and Johnny Small have stepped in and not missed a beat plus they added Paul Mannion and Eoin O'Gara to the forwards and that's made the forwards stronger. My cousin plays in Dublin and he told he thinks u21 player Con O'Callaghan will be called into the senior panel for the championship it gives them another option. His father Maurice played for Dublin in the 80s. A lot of Dublin people like him. Fitzmaurice has been loyal to his veterans but he must know it's time now to make changes. I have seen this idea posted a lot since the game where people are suggesting we get all the young lads in to at least have a look. I believe a lot of the lads who have gotten their chance and haven't taken it. Cox, Hickey and Gavin Grady would all be of the same ilk and have all gotten their chances over the last few years but are not deemed up to it. One must remember that Crowely and Morely were brought in after Templenoe's win and haven't even featured on the extended panel. Aidan Walsh and Denis daly haven't got a look since the early rounds. These young players were deemed the best around but the lads currently ahead of them must be doing something right. A lot of people will look to the 2 minor all Ireland's and 3 Hogan Cups as a reason to throw these lads in but Kerry looked very small in stature to Cork a few weeks ago at u21 level and the step to senior is monstrous in terms of power. I can understand when people say youth is needed but don't say he isn't giving a fair chance either to the younger generation
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 28, 2016 5:31:40 GMT
5-10
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 28, 2016 7:30:22 GMT
Tommy Walsh now being reported to be considering leaving the Kerry panel. Believe me if he was showing the form in training he wouldn't have to be considering things like this
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Apr 28, 2016 7:36:20 GMT
When e decided last Sunday that we needed to drive long high ball into Kieran, was the possibility of also throwing Tommy Walsh into the FF line even considered? Two targets are surely better than one and would have given Dublin something else to think about. If he's on the bench than he has to be good enough to come on...if not, then why is he on the bench?
The Paul Murphy 'experiment' at centre-forward has attracted such attention on here I believe as much if not more because it's a lone example of out-of-box thinking as it does because of moving a 'back' into the forward line. We need much more and not less of this 'out-of-box' thinking.
I suggested last year trying Tommy Walsh at centre-back and was roundly shouted down by 'experts' who know what shouldn't be done but know little of what should. I don't know in truth how Tommy Walsh is going in training so I won't repeat my suggestion from last year. But what about David Moran at centre-back? At fullback? I could make a few other suggestions but will retreat to the bunker for now after that one.
Contrary to some of the comments on here, I didn't think Mark Griffin played that poorly last Sunday and had a good league campaign in my opinion.
The goalkeeping situation needs to be addressed also as more than a few commented. I was at the Dub v Kerry league game in Croke Park in the spring of 2014 and Brendans performance that evening was remarkably similar to last Sunday. Goalkeepers regularly kicking the ball out over the sideline alone is hard to forget!
The reconstruction of this team does nor require a whole draft of young guys to be brought in but it does require a great deal more 'radical thinking' from management than we have seen in 2015 or 2016 as yet. Win and they are heroes. Lose and they will be replaced anyway so what have management to lose. Unless we shake up our approach, we will not win the AI and anything less is failure with the current talent, management and players, available I'm afraid.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 28, 2016 7:50:42 GMT
When e decided last Sunday that we needed to drive long high ball into Kieran, was the possibility of also throwing Tommy Walsh into the FF line even considered? Two targets are surely better than one and would have given Dublin something else to think about. If he's on the bench than he has to be good enough to come on...if not, then why is he on the bench? The Paul Murphy 'experiment' at centre-forward has attracted such attention on here I believe as much if not more because it's a lone example of out-of-box thinking as it does because of moving a 'back' into the forward line. We need much more and not less of this 'out-of-box' thinking. I suggested last year trying Tommy Walsh at centre-back and was roundly shouted down by 'experts' who know what shouldn't be done but know little of what should. I don't know in truth how Tommy Walsh is going in training so I won't repeat my suggestion from last year. But what about David Moran at centre-back? At fullback? I could make a few other suggestions but will retreat to the bunker for now after that one. Contrary to some of the comments on here, I didn't think Mark Griffin played that poorly last Sunday and had a good league campaign in my opinion. The goalkeeping situation needs to be addressed also as more than a few commented. I was at the Dub v Kerry league game in Croke Park in the spring of 2014 and Brendans performance that evening was remarkably similar to last Sunday. Goalkeepers regularly kicking the ball out over the sideline alone is hard to forget! The reconstruction of this team does nor require a whole draft of young guys to be brought in but it does require a great deal more 'radical thinking' from management than we have seen in 2015 or 2016 as yet. Win and they are heroes. Lose and they will be replaced anyway so what have management to lose. Unless we shake up our approach, we will not win the AI and anything less is failure with the current talent, management and players, available I'm afraid. Between another poster wanting to play Maher at centre back what is people's obsession with making our backs even slower. Not to mind the fact that none of these players have ever played in the backs since Minors at least. Moran's game is built around controlling the play, can one imagine the wreck that would be caused if any of the 6 forwards(maybe not Dean Rock) would cause if they marked him
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 28, 2016 9:26:37 GMT
Whereas I can understand the concept of David Moran or Tommy Walsh at 3 or 6 I think this solution belongs to a different era when the game was played in a more traditional manner. The current game is about pace, lines of running and support play. Mobility, pace and endurance are more important than height and fielding ability the way the game is played at present. Dublin have great pace, immense support play and good skills - a very difficult combination to take down. But there is always a way....... every system has its weaknesses we just need to find them and exploit them.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Apr 28, 2016 9:40:42 GMT
Dublin were not afraid to bring young guys in when needed. Ciaran Kilkenny Cormac Costello Brian Fenton Jack McCaffrey was another fella. They were all playing senior at 19 or 20. They lost McCaffrey and O'Carroll but young David Byrne and Johnny Small have stepped in and not missed a beat plus they added Paul Mannion and Eoin O'Gara to the forwards and that's made the forwards stronger. My cousin plays in Dublin and he told he thinks u21 player Con O'Callaghan will be called into the senior panel for the championship it gives them another option. His father Maurice played for Dublin in the 80s. A lot of Dublin people like him. Fitzmaurice has been loyal to his veterans but he must know it's time now to make changes. I have seen this idea posted a lot since the game where people are suggesting we get all the young lads in to at least have a look. I believe a lot of the lads who have gotten their chance and haven't taken it. Cox, Hickey and Gavin Grady would all be of the same ilk and have all gotten their chances over the last few years but are not deemed up to it. One must remember that Crowely and Morely were brought in after Templenoe's win and haven't even featured on the extended panel. Aidan Walsh and Denis daly haven't got a look since the early rounds. These young players were deemed the best around but the lads currently ahead of them must be doing something right. A lot of people will look to the 2 minor all Ireland's and 3 Hogan Cups as a reason to throw these lads in but Kerry looked very small in stature to Cork a few weeks ago at u21 level and the step to senior is monstrous in terms of power. I can understand when people say youth is needed but don't say he isn't giving a fair chance either to the younger generation I don't think anyone has been suggesting the names you mentioned there be brought in but rather the likes of Jack Savage, Micheal Burns, Tom O'Sullivan, Brian Ó Beaglaoich, Barry O'Sullivan, Matthew Flaherty and Killian Spillane. This year's Cork U21 side is the smallest I've seen them produce in a good while so I'm not sure where this idea of the Kerry lads looking small in comparison to them is coming from.
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kot
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Post by kot on Apr 28, 2016 9:43:28 GMT
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Post by ciarrailar on Apr 28, 2016 10:00:48 GMT
Have we all forgotten the horror-show Cluxton had in last years final when Kerry pressurised his kick outs? He kicked a few out over the line and more into Kerry hands. Why we didn't push up more and deprive the Dubs of primary possession is beyond me. No point in having big lads like Moran, Donaghy, Maher, Sheehan out in the middle of the park if the ball isn't kicked out to them. Having runners coming from deep by Dublin just means the face paced attacking defenders bypass our midfield with ease!
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 28, 2016 10:04:07 GMT
I have seen this idea posted a lot since the game where people are suggesting we get all the young lads in to at least have a look. I believe a lot of the lads who have gotten their chance and haven't taken it. Cox, Hickey and Gavin Grady would all be of the same ilk and have all gotten their chances over the last few years but are not deemed up to it. One must remember that Crowely and Morely were brought in after Templenoe's win and haven't even featured on the extended panel. Aidan Walsh and Denis daly haven't got a look since the early rounds. These young players were deemed the best around but the lads currently ahead of them must be doing something right. A lot of people will look to the 2 minor all Ireland's and 3 Hogan Cups as a reason to throw these lads in but Kerry looked very small in stature to Cork a few weeks ago at u21 level and the step to senior is monstrous in terms of power. I can understand when people say youth is needed but don't say he isn't giving a fair chance either to the younger generation I don't think anyone has been suggesting the names you mentioned there be brought in but rather the likes of Jack Savage, Micheal Burns, Tom O'Sullivan, Brian Ó Beaglaoich, Barry O'Sullivan, Matthew Flaherty and Killian Spillane. This year's Cork U21 side is the smallest I've seen them produce in a good while so I'm not sure where this idea of the Kerry lads looking small in comparison to them is coming from. The general consensus was that Kerry couldn't match them physically that day, with us being cleaned out at midfield. The step up in physicality again is huge so it is hard to imagine many of those players being physically ready for the ste up. Begley the only option this year
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 28, 2016 10:08:02 GMT
I don't think anyone has been suggesting the names you mentioned there be brought in but rather the likes of Jack Savage, Micheal Burns, Tom O'Sullivan, Brian Ó Beaglaoich, Barry O'Sullivan, Matthew Flaherty and Killian Spillane. This year's Cork U21 side is the smallest I've seen them produce in a good while so I'm not sure where this idea of the Kerry lads looking small in comparison to them is coming from. The general consensus was that Kerry couldn't match them physically that day, with us being cleaned out at midfield. The step up in physicality again is huge so it is hard to imagine many of those players being physically ready for the ste up. Begley the only option this year Don't know Premier, if both Barry O'Sullivan and Mark O'Connor had been fully fit for the Cork game Kerry would have won the tie and would be contesting this weekends All-Ireland final. I have no doubt about that.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Apr 28, 2016 10:17:06 GMT
I don't think anyone has been suggesting the names you mentioned there be brought in but rather the likes of Jack Savage, Micheal Burns, Tom O'Sullivan, Brian Ó Beaglaoich, Barry O'Sullivan, Matthew Flaherty and Killian Spillane. This year's Cork U21 side is the smallest I've seen them produce in a good while so I'm not sure where this idea of the Kerry lads looking small in comparison to them is coming from. The general consensus was that Kerry couldn't match them physically that day, with us being cleaned out at midfield. The step up in physicality again is huge so it is hard to imagine many of those players being physically ready for the ste up. Begley the only option this year Physicality had nothing to do with the U21s losing IMO. The loss of key players and the lack of a defensive set-up were the main reasons, along with Cork being a very good side. We need pace. Brian Ó Beaglaoich's run through the Dubs in Jnauary which resulted in a free sticks in my mind. David Moran, Bryan Sheehan are supposed to be big physical lads but it hasn't done Kerry much good in recent meetings v the Dubs.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 28, 2016 10:27:26 GMT
The general consensus was that Kerry couldn't match them physically that day, with us being cleaned out at midfield. The step up in physicality again is huge so it is hard to imagine many of those players being physically ready for the ste up. Begley the only option this year Physicality had nothing to do with the U21s losing IMO. The loss of key players and the lack of a defensive set-up were the main reasons, along with Cork being a very good side. We need pace. Brian Ó Beaglaoich's run through the Dubs in Jnauary which resulted in a free sticks in my mind. David Moran, Bryan Sheehan are supposed to be big physical lads but it hasn't done Kerry much good in recent meetings v the Dubs. How many of the players you have mentioned have real pace though. Admittedly Begley and maybe Burns. Tom and Killian are quick but nothing scary. Barry or Jack wouldn't be speed merchants and Flathery is more of a head down solo runner
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Apr 28, 2016 10:38:04 GMT
Physicality had nothing to do with the U21s losing IMO. The loss of key players and the lack of a defensive set-up were the main reasons, along with Cork being a very good side. We need pace. Brian Ó Beaglaoich's run through the Dubs in Jnauary which resulted in a free sticks in my mind. David Moran, Bryan Sheehan are supposed to be big physical lads but it hasn't done Kerry much good in recent meetings v the Dubs. How many of the players you have mentioned have real pace though. Admittedly Begley and maybe Burns. Tom and Killian are quick but nothing scary. Barry or Jack wouldn't be speed merchants and Flathery is more of a head down solo runner Totally agree with you. We just need to freshen up all the lines IMO.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Apr 28, 2016 10:57:40 GMT
How many of the players you have mentioned have real pace though. Admittedly Begley and maybe Burns. Tom and Killian are quick but nothing scary. Barry or Jack wouldn't be speed merchants and Flathery is more of a head down solo runner Totally agree with you. We just need to freshen up all the lines IMO. Speaking of freshening it up and too too much loyalty to players past their best. Brian Cody drops former All Star in shake up at KilkennyKilkenny hurling manager Brian Cody has begun the process of overhauling his squad in the wake of last week's Allianz League semi-final defeat to Clare. It is understood that former All-Star midfielder Michael Rice and defender Brian Kennedy have been released ahead of the Cats' championship defence. Kilkenny were due back training in Nowlan Park last night after a weekend of club activity that saw Eoin Larkin, Paul Murphy and Colin Fennelly all back in action after missing the Clare game. Larkin has been on a tour of duty with the Irish Armed Forces in Syria since last year. Rice was part of the squad in Thurles but hasn't featured in the League while Kennedy replaced the injured Jackie Tyrrell. The 32-year-old Rice has been beset with injury in recent years, having his fingers badly damaged in an All-Ireland semi-final against Tipperary while he also tore his cruciate ligament almost two years ago on a Kilkenny training camp
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Apr 28, 2016 11:43:22 GMT
You do need pace but I wouldn't say every player needs to be a gazelle. We did OK in the first half last Sunday because we defended very deep and in numbers. Which is fine. Except Fionn was thrown around like a rag doll which meant his man was an out ball all the time. And Marc O'Se was being roasted by BB.
Fionn's trouble had nothing to do with pace but lack of physicality. Marc's problems definitely were to do with speed.
Where our lack of pace was borne out is from 8-12. When we turn over the ball we have no one that could carry it at pace. And if we kicked it into the full forward line we had no one to get up there in time to support the receiver.
The defence will be OK becuase of the sheer numbers. Our lack of pace is hampering our ability to turn defence into attack.
Moran,Donaghy,Sheehan,Walsh dont have the speed to get up and down the field like needed. Maybe you could carry a Moran or Sheehan for their passing ability etc and have the half forwards do the hard yards. But I cant see Kerry beating a Dublin team with more than 2 from Moran,Maher,Sheehan,Donaghy,Walsh or Buckley playing from numbers 8-12 and maybe selecting one of them is enough. And if you play Gooch at centre forward I think you can only have one of them
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Post by royalkerryfan on Apr 28, 2016 12:00:35 GMT
The exact same scenario happened in the final last September. Fionn picked up Andrews and was not physically able to match him.
I said before the final that COS is the man to target and we need to crack this.
We also need to lift our tempo the speed that cluxton got the ball back in play was incredible and we need to match that or attempt be ready for Dublins quick starts.
I do believe we will be better in August if we have JOD Geanny & gooch in the FF line. We had little treat in the league final.
All that being said let's not take the eye off the ball and deal with Cork first.
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Post by Kilmacud Dub on Apr 28, 2016 13:29:36 GMT
Kealys kick outs 9 times out of 10 were won by Dublin. He kicked most of them into a bunch of players. That has to change for Kerrys sake. Dublin won most of the breaks. Kerrys half forward line didnt win much. Donnacha Walsh was quiet for his standards. Sheehan wasn't in the game. Murphy tried hard and ran all day. He was one of Kerrys better players. The high ball into Donaghy has gotten really old. Every team is onto it. I can't believe Kerry went back to it and the ball that was going in was poor. If he did win it Dublins backs were there to put pressure on him and make sure he didnt score. Tactically Gavin beat Fitzmaurice again hands down. Cluxton had loads of time. I can't believe Kerry didn't push up on him. Moran was well beaten by Fenton in the middle. Just could not stay with him. Fenton and Bastick dominated that area. Another problem for Kerry was Fionn Fitz on Kilkenny. That was a total mismatch.At the start of the game the ball was going towards the end line. Kilkenny went down to pick it up Fitzgerald had a chance to blow him and ball over the line for a goal kick but he let Kilkenny pick it up and he brushed him aside and kicked a point. That could have been a marker to lay down early but instead Kilkenny got room and time and grew in confidence. I see a lot of Kerry people saying the O'Mahony sending off changed the game. I don't think so. I think Dublin have better players and I think Kerry lost it on the Line. He shows some players too much loyalty. Marc O'Se was getting roasted by Brogan but he kept him on him. He should have changed Fionn Fitz much earlier. He kept Moran on Fenton even though he was getting beat. He should have send someone into Brendan Kealy after 10 minutes. I don't know why Tommy Walsh was not brought in cause Dublin were dominating midfield.Gooch got awful ball in the second half.Darren O'Sullivan seemed to be just running all over the field but making no impact. I have no clue what that was about. One thing about Gavin he's not afraid to take an established player off or make a change. He is constantly talking to his selectors and looking at his players. He wouldn't think twice about taking Diarmuid Connolly or Bernard Brogan off if he had to. He never lets what they have won get to them and it's all about the team. I don't think Kerry will beat Dublin this year just looking at the players they have right now. O'Donoghue Geaney and Maher are badly needed. Geaney Cooper and O'Donoghue is a dangerous full forward line but will they get enough decent ball to win games. Maher will help midfield but will he be mobile enough and fast enough to run and keep up todays midfielders. Fitzmaurice has loads of work to do and he has to bring in a few new players. There has to be a few changes from that team because it's clear that team will not win the All Ireland. Kerry will still be in the mix with Mayo Tyrone Dublin maybe Donegal. It will take a huge improvement to beat Dublin in August that's for sure. The big question is have they the belief and work ethic to match Dublin. After Sunday I have my doubts.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Apr 28, 2016 13:51:18 GMT
Totally agree with you. We just need to freshen up all the lines IMO. Speaking of freshening it up and too too much loyalty to players past their best. Brian Cody drops former All Star in shake up at KilkennyKilkenny hurling manager Brian Cody has begun the process of overhauling his squad in the wake of last week's Allianz League semi-final defeat to Clare. It is understood that former All-Star midfielder Michael Rice and defender Brian Kennedy have been released ahead of the Cats' championship defence. Kilkenny were due back training in Nowlan Park last night after a weekend of club activity that saw Eoin Larkin, Paul Murphy and Colin Fennelly all back in action after missing the Clare game. Larkin has been on a tour of duty with the Irish Armed Forces in Syria since last year. Rice was part of the squad in Thurles but hasn't featured in the League while Kennedy replaced the injured Jackie Tyrrell. The 32-year-old Rice has been beset with injury in recent years, having his fingers badly damaged in an All-Ireland semi-final against Tipperary while he also tore his cruciate ligament almost two years ago on a Kilkenny training camp If Ger Loughnane is to be believed then Cody is the only difference, so is it easier to establish a pipeline of hurlers than footballers? What is the secret? Kilkenny doesn't have a massive population and there is plenty of competition from other sports/codes. I said it before, he has discarded better players that any other manager ever did, O'Dwyer and Harte included, in fact these two would be the best ever football managers IMO and they were arguably overly loyal to past masters. I know it is easier said that done but then again it would be expected of top managers of county teams and where enormous resources are at their disposal. Is Cody the best talent spotter? Have The Cats a good development system? Maybe out hurling fraternity will enlighten us now that they are making strides themselves and we have a few good wans on here.
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