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Post by wayupnorth on Oct 18, 2014 16:05:05 GMT
I stopped reading when I got to the traditional whinge about how handy it was for Kerry strolling through Munster every year compared to the poor Ulster teams. Well Boo Hoo!! Ulster is a very competitive c'ship, with most teams capable of beating anyone on a given day. Like the Munster hurling, it's an unique competition and well worth keeping. But you have to admit the whole c'ship is lopsided. I remember noting a couple of years ago Cavan had played 2 games in Ulster and then went into the 1st qualifying round. Cork played and lost one game, and went into the 2nd qualifying round. That's just madness. Now Cavan were unlikely to win Sam then, and I'm not saying it leads to handy AIs but it definitely is advantageous in keeping players fresh and injury free. Very valid points AM. No doubt the qualifiers are lopsided. But Cork were losing semi-finalists that year so would go in at a higher level as would Cavan if they had reached the Ulster semi-finals. As others have pointed out the Ulster set-up could be a blessing as a quality team will be more battle hardened coming out of there. As Munster Champions we were almost caught out by Monaghan one year so its swings and roundabouts. By the same token Dublin strolled through Leinster and were caught out by a Donegal team who not only survived the Ulster cauldron but the further test of another Ulster survivor in the quarter final. I can't abide lazy journalism that makes such facile arguments. Change the system if you must but a good team will always come to the top no matter what the system is and then the system will be blamed for giving them an easy ride.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 18, 2014 16:25:53 GMT
Kerry play 5 games to win an AI.
Going on average rankings, an open draw could see Kerry win the AI by beating the likes of
Louth - Kildare - Monaghan - Dublin Donegal
vs, say
Clare - Cork - Galway - Mayo - Donegal
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 18, 2014 17:36:38 GMT
Ulster is a very competitive c'ship, with most teams capable of beating anyone on a given day. Like the Munster hurling, it's an unique competition and well worth keeping. But you have to admit the whole c'ship is lopsided. I remember noting a couple of years ago Cavan had played 2 games in Ulster and then went into the 1st qualifying round. Cork played and lost one game, and went into the 2nd qualifying round. That's just madness. Now Cavan were unlikely to win Sam then, and I'm not saying it leads to handy AIs but it definitely is advantageous in keeping players fresh and injury free.There's an equal argument that going into the AI series rusty is anything but advantageous. Kerry's final league game this year was on April 6th. Between then and the Q/F against Galway on 3rd August, we played Cork (who didn't show up) and Clare. Two competitive games in 4 months is hardly ideal preparation. The gap between the Munster Final and the AI Q/F is a particular problem, sometimes it's 5 or 6 weeks. Yeah that's the other side of it. Playing less games also has the advantage of opponents knowing less about you. The c'ship format definitely needs looking at. It's unfair to lots of teams in one way or another. It's also unfair to club players. Fixtures need to be set in stone months before. The current qualifiers are unfair to fans too. Expecting fans to turn out 5 or 6 weekends in a row (as we had to do this year) to support their team is ridiculous. Not only that, but this is to be arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. It's really not good enough. Fans deserve better.
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Post by wayupnorth on Oct 18, 2014 18:05:12 GMT
Kerry play 5 games to win an AI. Going on average rankings, an open draw could see Kerry win the AI by beating the likes of Louth - Kildare - Monaghan - Dublin Donegal vs, say Clare - Cork - Galway - Mayo - Donegal That would be a possible line up in a seeded draw. Proponents of an open draw would hope for Kerry to be up against: Tyrone - Cork - Mayo - Donegal - Dublin In the expectation that one of these big teams could account for us long before we got to Croke Park. Dream on!
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 531
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Post by dano on Oct 18, 2014 20:04:16 GMT
Very well said Way up north. The most sensible comment on this subject I have heard in ages. What I can never get is the perceived notion that Kerry , somehow, slyly, have cornered the market on winning Allirelands. One guy from up where you are somewhere basically said on a forum a while back that we, as Kerry supporters, should be ashamed of the fact that our county has amassed so many titles. This is basically what Heany said in his column also. Not in so many words but it's what he meant. I walked out of Croke Park again this Autumn bursting with pride. I've been to many Allirelands and have walked out in victory seven times. Every gael from every corner of Ireland should experience that walk at least once in their lifetime and I wouldn't begrudge anyone doing it. But ashamed of Kerry's achievements because an accident of Geography or some historical boundary making I am not. Roll on Number 38.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 19, 2014 0:48:23 GMT
dano, John B would have called you a pure hoor, and rightly so, you hoor you!
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Post by homerj on Oct 19, 2014 9:48:26 GMT
Has anybody seen Jimmy Mcguinness be gracious in defeat after the all ireland and give any credit for it?.he says kerry were better team (but didnt play well) but puts that down to them playing bad, as opposed to us.
He seems a very bad loser and is not giving Kerry any credit for the victory.
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Post by ballynamona on Oct 19, 2014 9:56:22 GMT
I would agree about McGuinness. Defeated Kerry managers have always give the opposition due credit. McGuinness seemed too wrapped up in himself.
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Post by wayupnorth on Oct 19, 2014 11:04:40 GMT
I would agree about McGuinness. Defeated Kerry managers have always give the opposition due credit. McGuinness seemed too wrapped up in himself. But the opposition have to be very good to beat us and we only have to be Kerry!
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Post by Chinatown on Oct 19, 2014 15:29:19 GMT
Got mine in post during the week. Luv it I do Attachments:
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,688
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 19, 2014 15:58:39 GMT
Got mine in post during the week. Luv it I do Probably not as much as Joe Brolly's ego would love seeing his name emblazoned on a car sticker.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Oct 19, 2014 17:56:26 GMT
In today's paper he's claiming that his articles are the reason Kerry won the final this year, he does have a rather Bono sizes ego. Nobody will deny that he is a mouthpiece but he is critically very sharp and were not for his unpleasent trashing of amateur players on the airwaves he would be a far more respected pundit. He very often identifies strengths and weaknesses in teams that are not identified by the other pundits and to be fair to him I don't think there are many people who would give a kidney to a total stranger as he did. Well Joe Brolly ! What do you think of that ,,,
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Post by donegalman on Oct 19, 2014 19:22:11 GMT
Has anybody seen Jimmy Mcguinness be gracious in defeat after the all ireland and give any credit for it?.he says kerry were better team (but didnt play well) but puts that down to them playing bad, as opposed to us. He seems a very bad loser and is not giving Kerry any credit for the victory. ? Here is a quote from the interview, when asked why donegal lost the final. Against kerry we didnt deliver our normal performance, and if we did deliver our normal performance, I think we might have won the game. Kerry can be better as well, but on the day the were better than us there is no question about that.... I have no regrets about that, I wouldnt change a thing about the lead in to the final...... Kerry had their own game plan and had their tactics very well nailed as well so you have to acknowledge that.I think we might have won the game if the donegal performed well, is as close to being bitter about losing as he gets, which he is not of course. Kerry better than donegal on the day. Kerry delivered their game plan and tactics without playing as well as they could. (this could be a compliment really). If donegal played to their potential, they might have won the game. No regrets. What more do you want from the man, him to grovel?? I must say he came across very well, we are all very proud of him.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 19, 2014 20:12:03 GMT
I didn't find him one bit unsporting on the TV.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Oct 19, 2014 20:52:06 GMT
Donegal man I personally was very impressed by the gracious Donegal fans after the loss in the final they were truly a credit to their county and the Clubs they were aligned to. I won't lie to you, i believe the defensive tactics drilled into and practiced by the Donegal players is not something that will be good for our game long term. I am not giving out about the players as I am sure they are the finest of men in any walk of life that you could meet. I have always said that the pundits that described games that Donegal were playing in as fascinating, Intriguing, mesmerising and many other such superlatives to describe encounters between Donegal and other county teams that were trying to play the game in the spirit and traditions expected of that level of competition. I always argued that the only reason that these games were of interest to the neutrals was to see how the SYSTEM fared against the traditional game. I always said that once more county teams put up the white flag and resigned themselves to the conclusion that this bloody system was the be and end all of the game we would have a big problem. When Donegal rolled out the McGuinness ethos everyone looked and said this wont survive but a year later they had Sam in their hands and everyone sat up and took notice. In the 2012 final I felt that when Donegal went well ahead they started to showboat a little and literally kicked Mayo back into the game with their shabby passing and ball skills. In relation to McGuinness I can't feel sorry for him as his team fell on the same sword that got them to the summit. He did something amazing by getting a team of players to buy into his tactical system but in stark contradiction to his belief that the system would be at its strongest like the Olympic cycle after four years, his timeframe fought him. Kerry licked their wounds and examined this thing that blocked their road to Croker and examined how to beat it, Fitzy had four maybe five full training sessions to plan a tactic to frustrate Donegal in the height of their cycle and beat them by instructing his defensive unit to stand strong and not follow the Donegal players into the cul de sacs that caught and stifled the five in a row Dubs. I was in the Hogan stand and I said to my young lad look at the Donegal attack,, they were peeling left and right at the critical time that they would ordinarily break through the oppositions defence. Reason Kerry held the critical Donegal scoring area and would not relent, they tracked the normally un marked runners and at this point it was down to what they learned in the training fields from the age of 6 or 7 years of age. Kerry had all that was required,, in truth we should have nailed quiet a few more points from very storable positions but in truth they were probably trying to put the ball out of play and probably put a little too much umph in the kick to avoid the counter attack. Anyway the point I am making is that Donegal could have taken us if they were not so faithful to that system and had used the natural skill and belief that must be in that squad after four years of hard training and commitment. Jims fanatical instruction ultimately resulted in his team resorting to the instruction of the controller. Donegal showed what they can do if allowed, after Donaghys goal they scored three great points but instinct was drilled out of them and they returned to their positions as instructed... This was death of their opportunity, a willingness to abandon the teaching of the early years for the SYSTEM. As always Kerry cherry picked the best of the worst and used it to their advantage to accompany all that they have learned and loved. Tradition is a powerful thing. Mr. McGuinness ye didn't play below par, skill and tradition got your number,,,
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Post by donegalman on Oct 19, 2014 21:25:08 GMT
Mr. McGuinness ye didn't play below par, skill and tradition got your number
This is your opinion and thats grand.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Oct 19, 2014 22:21:41 GMT
Sorry Donegal man, I know the way you selected that line it has hurt you. It is not my intention to be brash or insulting but your ex manager has clearly failed to acknowledge the Kerry management or team. I think all GAA supporters saw the car crash involving the Dubs, God help them they were clearing their diaries for the All Stars, the Late Late Show, the Saturday Night Show and were willing to dirty their designer shoes at the plowing championship to allow the mortals to paw the Sam McGuire Cup as it would be their only opportunity for the best part of this decade... Kerry looked at Donegal and saw exactly what Donegal saw in the relentless examination of the Dubs.. Ye were vulnerable, Armagh had a few weeks and nearly beat ye with less talented players than Kerry. Eamon Fitzmaurice saw what ye did and examined your attack strategy along with your defense system. Ye are doing this for four years and it was only a matter of time before someone said do they have better players in varous positions around the field or do we ?? now when an opposing manager can clinically dismantle a system like this it does not bode well for the oppisition. Regardless where you are from he had FOUR or maybe FIVE TRAINING SESSIONS to prepare for Donegal, ye didn't operate at 60% as jimmy mcguinness suggested, in truth the game was up as once his system was unlocked it was down to instinct. Train all day and night but instinct is natural and will spill blood as often as training,, now marry the two and the result is worth a punt !!! McGuinness has many obligations in live, he has a young family and he has to provide for them. He is busy in Scotland bettering soccer players and it is wonderful to have an Irishman in that position, but I think he knows that when a team can beat his four year system in a handful days it might be time to say my day has come, and maybe he should have considered " this is a wonderful Kerry team and they played very well today,, not we didn't play to our potential and that is what I need to examine, reality is they didn't get the opportunity to steer the skill set into the iceberg and that is why we have "37" , this is not coincidence it's tradition,
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Post by donegalman on Oct 19, 2014 23:12:10 GMT
I think you will find he did acknowledge the kerry team. Better on the day, not playing to their fullest potential but still winning deservedly. I think he is right to say that we didnt play to our fullest potential, the dogs on the street could see that. He did make his mind up before the final that he was going to bail, in fact he did at the beginning of the 4 years in charge. It would have been incidental if he were to retire after the armagh game in the quarter final, or the dubs game had we lost either. It so happens we made it to the final this year. Its actually amazing that there is so much negative nit picking about what the man said last night. I know the system we use is not what you guys are about but that is what we bring to the table. Still, cheer up man, you have an all ireland to celebrate, its not all bad you know.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 19, 2014 23:24:25 GMT
I think all GAA supporters saw the car crash involving the Dubs Ah now, come. There were very very few that thought Donegal would beat Dublin. Even Donegal folk weren't that confident. Well now, that's a matter of opinion And we had one week. That's going a bit far. Had McFadden got that goal, drawn game. That was the margin effectively. McGuinness was going regardless of the result. I think managers are mainly concerned with their own team. Donegal clearly didn't play well, and that was the most disappointing thing for Donegal folk, after the work they did all year. The game was still there for the taking even with a poor performance, so he can be forgiven for not lauding the victors so soon after losing the biggest game Donegal have probably ever played.
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Post by tyroneperson on Oct 19, 2014 23:52:35 GMT
Personally I thought Darach O'Connor was a bit mad considering he's only 18. I suppose the plan was always to bring in Cristy Toye who possibly couldn't last the full 70 minutes. I thought Donegal were lacking in the half-forward line. Leo McLoone tried hard but there was a lack of incision in their attacking play. Maybe kicking a few high balls into Murphy would've helped, I don't know. McGuinness did seem to be frustrated by Donegal's performance, I thought his comment hypothesising that a few of his players might've been somehow thinking ahead to celebrations was a bit unfair.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 20, 2014 3:03:27 GMT
Jim is not of ego and he called it straight, neither team played to their full potential. The only thing he omitted was IMO was that the reason was the intensity. I thought he was magnanimous and I wish him only the best. He has challenged conventional thinking and from living in Donegal he is a role model beyond belief and he has brought Donegal Geelic football to a new level and he had many hurdles in his way. The GAA isn't the easiest environment in which to bring about change; culture always beast strategy but Jim was the exception. No, I am and always will be a Kerryman but credit where credit it is due; I don't like 'the system' but it is within the rules.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Oct 20, 2014 10:25:39 GMT
6 hours ago Quote Post by K Man @ Ballythefireside on 6 hours ago Jim is not of ego and he called it straight, neither team played to their full potential. The only thing he omitted was IMO was that the reason was the intensity. I thought he was magnanimous and I wish him only the best. He has challenged conventional thinking and from living in Donegal he is a role model beyond belief and he has brought Donegal Geelic football to a new level and he had many hurdles in his way. The GAA isn't the easiest environment in which to bring about change; culture always beast strategy but Jim was the exception. No, I am and always will be a Kerryman but credit where credit it is due; I don't like 'the system' but it is within the rules.
I agree with the above but we have to throw a quick eye back to some of the games they were involved in, the Dubs in 2011 ? I was nearly pulling my hair out as the Dublin players were winning the ball at midfield uncontested and then having to try to pick holes in the fourteen man defence. I know he is playing within the rules but I am not so sure he could be congratulated for playing within the overall spirit of our game. In fairness to Brolly despite his continual praise of McGuinness and what he has done he has acknowledged that this system is like a virus spreading through the club game and the inter county teams. Mcguinness took over an indisciplined team and that is why nobody was too worried as all of a sudden they were doing something they hadn't been doing previously, putting it up to big teams. He achieved amazing success with it but if wasn't beaten it would have caused great damage to the game in the long term. Imaging trying to coach 6 year old kids to line in their own half and wait for the opposing team to come into their half ,, I am confident that their parents would just say I may as well take them to the real thing and bring them to the rugby club. The best games played in recent games have been played between traditional teams who go toe to toe and set the heart racing for all watching, last year Kerry v Dublin was a wonderful occasion and while we lost I was very proud of my team. The games against Mayo this year were exciting and thrilling encounters enjoyed by all that watched it. The AIF !!! Ketrry and Donegal were engrossed but I can't imaging that there were too many neutrals sitting on the edge of their seats. Any of the marketing experts will tell you in property it's location, location, location and in sport it's brand, brand, brand. I know what I'd like to be selling and it doesn't come from Donegal.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Oct 20, 2014 10:55:51 GMT
Ard Mhacha I am not saying I saw it coming I am referring to the lack of a defence in the Dublin team, the half backs were following the Donegal half forwards into the Donegal defence and the kick outs were being flicked into the acres of space left empty, the Donegal half forwards were breaking early as practices and running straight at the ragged fullback line being sadly trailed by Dubs. Kerry just remained in position and picked up the runners, when Donegal ran at us they didnt have the space and the inside players were well marked. They then had to turn and look for other options which were curiously marked as well. I know it was close at the end but we should have nailed a few more points I suggest. Armagh have been changing their set up with the arrival of McGeeney and were well drilled in this defensive style of play, whilst they only had a weeks notice they had less to change than Kerry I'm sure hoy would agree. On that note I think Armagh will be a dangerous outfit next year and we will probably meet at some stage in August, should be interesting. I agree that he was probably going this year anyway but the prospect of staying on another year after a few close ones they had in 2014,,,,, I would respectfully suggest that this was supposed to be the pinnacle of the cycle, in truths four years is a long time to study a system and in 2015 more teams will be more prepared for it if it is rolled out again. Maybe more bad games in store for all next year ??
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 20, 2014 12:36:29 GMT
The argument about the lob sided nature of the draw and any perceived advantage to Kerry, Cork, Mayo, Galway etc is dead in the water while there is such intransigence to creating 4 regional groups of 8. Eugene McGee offered a perfectly fine template recently to create 4 such groups and it was rejected again en mass by the various stakeholders.
Looking across the country yesterday at the number of county finals played, you would have to wonder is this intransigence to change just a smoke screen that allows the clubs have their young players across seas during the summer to return in the autumn at the start of the college year to take up where they left off earlier in the summer?
Behind the propaganda peddled in the media there is possibly a lets have the cake and eat it undertone that serves the clubs best. Food for thought.
I'll give no credence to arguments addressed towards Kerry's perceived easier route while this intransigence to change and the creation of 4 groups of eight continues. Get off the pot or else crap.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Oct 21, 2014 13:24:20 GMT
Ard Mhacha I am not saying I saw it coming I am referring to the lack of a defence in the Dublin team, the half backs were following the Donegal half forwards into the Donegal defence and the kick outs were being flicked into the acres of space left empty, the Donegal half forwards were breaking early as practices and running straight at the ragged fullback line being sadly trailed by Dubs. Kerry just remained in position and picked up the runners, when Donegal ran at us they didnt have the space and the inside players were well marked. They then had to turn and look for other options which were curiously marked as well. I know it was close at the end but we should have nailed a few more points I suggest. Armagh have been changing their set up with the arrival of McGeeney and were well drilled in this defensive style of play, whilst they only had a weeks notice they had less to change than Kerry I'm sure hoy would agree. On that note I think Armagh will be a dangerous outfit next year and we will probably meet at some stage in August, should be interesting. I agree that he was probably going this year anyway but the prospect of staying on another year after a few close ones they had in 2014,,,,, I would respectfully suggest that this was supposed to be the pinnacle of the cycle, in truths four years is a long time to study a system and in 2015 more teams will be more prepared for it if it is rolled out again. Maybe more bad games in store for all next year ?? So Kerry had never considered the possibility all year or last year of coming up against Donegal? Until after the 2nd semi-final this summer? Given that they must have been assuming, by your calculation, that they could only possibly be playing Dublin in the final, it's a wonder that they even had time to figure out what colour jerseys they might be wearing. This had created such a furore around the semi-final with Mayo, it must have been greatly exercising the minds and resources of the Kerry brainstrust. I think if they had known or at least considered that they might be wearing the royal blue jerseys in the final, then would they not have been more prepared and would have beaten Donegal more easily? As it was, so much green and gold was present on final day, I think it probably helped Kerry as well, like a huge blanket of the finest traditional colours enveloping them in a warm embrace. It must however be a source of some concern to Kerry GAA people (well, the football 'half' of the fraternity) that not only did their management assume completely that Donegal wouldn't be in the final, but also that over the past 2 years since the defeat to Donegal, and following on from defeats to Down, and Tyrone, not to mention a very 'northern-like' Dublin set-up in 2011, that Kerry according to your information, made absolutely no provision whatsoever towards preparing for playing any team they might meet who would most likely be operating a blanket or at least swarm-type defence. If I was a Kerry fan, this would worry me, because under the circumstances, they could easily have not won the game, for the want of preparation, and due to reckless assumptions. Then again, it's tempting to speculate that it merely gives a hint as to the potential that the Kerry team possesses, if they should choose to implement the full quantity of preparation that is open to them. It's a truly frightening prospect for all other counties, we can only hope that Kerry continue to opt for giving the rest of us 'a chance' by purely preparing for games 'off-the-cuff', and based on natural instinct and tradition.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 21, 2014 18:36:42 GMT
I for one couldn't see Donegal getting enough scores to beat Dublin.
Rashers.... how do you think it would have played out if Dublin had scored a goal or two when on top and were able to hold out and prevail against Donegal.
Would the final have been a shoot out or would Kerry have played a conservative defensive game and tried to hit Dublin on the break. I am not convinced that Kerry are wedded to a conservative/defensive game and I think its possible that they would have met Dublin in a shootout at the "OK Croke Park" and conceded a few goals in the process and possibly lost.
I was confident that Kerry would beat Dublin in 2013 after watching their defensive game plan against Cavan but they forgot that and went for it against Dublin and lost. I know its all conjecture now. I cant imagine Dublin getting the defense/offence balance so wrong again under Jim Gavin so future meetings between Dublin and Kerry wont be open football affairs like 2013.
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fg
Senior Member
Posts: 292
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Post by fg on Oct 21, 2014 18:50:16 GMT
Ard Mhacha I am not saying I saw it coming I am referring to the lack of a defence in the Dublin team, the half backs were following the Donegal half forwards into the Donegal defence and the kick outs were being flicked into the acres of space left empty, the Donegal half forwards were breaking early as practices and running straight at the ragged fullback line being sadly trailed by Dubs. Kerry just remained in position and picked up the runners, when Donegal ran at us they didnt have the space and the inside players were well marked. They then had to turn and look for other options which were curiously marked as well. I know it was close at the end but we should have nailed a few more points I suggest. Armagh have been changing their set up with the arrival of McGeeney and were well drilled in this defensive style of play, whilst they only had a weeks notice they had less to change than Kerry I'm sure hoy would agree. On that note I think Armagh will be a dangerous outfit next year and we will probably meet at some stage in August, should be interesting. I agree that he was probably going this year anyway but the prospect of staying on another year after a few close ones they had in 2014,,,,, I would respectfully suggest that this was supposed to be the pinnacle of the cycle, in truths four years is a long time to study a system and in 2015 more teams will be more prepared for it if it is rolled out again. Maybe more bad games in store for all next year ?? So Kerry had never considered the possibility all year or last year of coming up against Donegal? Until after the 2nd semi-final this summer? Given that they must have been assuming, by your calculation, that they could only possibly be playing Dublin in the final, it's a wonder that they even had time to figure out what colour jerseys they might be wearing. This had created such a furore around the semi-final with Mayo, it must have been greatly exercising the minds and resources of the Kerry brainstrust. I think if they had known or at least considered that they might be wearing the royal blue jerseys in the final, then would they not have been more prepared and would have beaten Donegal more easily? As it was, so much green and gold was present on final day, I think it probably helped Kerry as well, like a huge blanket of the finest traditional colours enveloping them in a warm embrace. It must however be a source of some concern to Kerry GAA people (well, the football 'half' of the fraternity) that not only did their management assume completely that Donegal wouldn't be in the final, but also that over the past 2 years since the defeat to Donegal, and following on from defeats to Down, and Tyrone, not to mention a very 'northern-like' Dublin set-up in 2011, that Kerry according to your information, made absolutely no provision whatsoever towards preparing for playing any team they might meet who would most likely be operating a blanket or at least swarm-type defence. If I was a Kerry fan, this would worry me, because under the circumstances, they could easily have not won the game, for the want of preparation, and due to reckless assumptions. Then again, it's tempting to speculate that it merely gives a hint as to the potential that the Kerry team possesses, if they should choose to implement the full quantity of preparation that is open to them. It's a truly frightening prospect for all other counties, we can only hope that Kerry continue to opt for giving the rest of us 'a chance' by purely preparing for games 'off-the-cuff', and based on natural instinct and tradition. sarcasm being the lowest form of wit aside re: you last paragraph rashers, a lot of what gamechanger states is true but obviously unpalatable to some posters, tough, it is what it is.
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Post by donegalman on Oct 21, 2014 19:04:50 GMT
We will have to wait until 2015 to see whether kerry and dublin will meet, never mind what system they will play. I wonder will it be a straight forward shoot out?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Oct 21, 2014 19:59:57 GMT
So Kerry had never considered the possibility all year or last year of coming up against Donegal? Until after the 2nd semi-final this summer? Given that they must have been assuming, by your calculation, that they could only possibly be playing Dublin in the final, it's a wonder that they even had time to figure out what colour jerseys they might be wearing. This had created such a furore around the semi-final with Mayo, it must have been greatly exercising the minds and resources of the Kerry brainstrust. I think if they had known or at least considered that they might be wearing the royal blue jerseys in the final, then would they not have been more prepared and would have beaten Donegal more easily? As it was, so much green and gold was present on final day, I think it probably helped Kerry as well, like a huge blanket of the finest traditional colours enveloping them in a warm embrace. It must however be a source of some concern to Kerry GAA people (well, the football 'half' of the fraternity) that not only did their management assume completely that Donegal wouldn't be in the final, but also that over the past 2 years since the defeat to Donegal, and following on from defeats to Down, and Tyrone, not to mention a very 'northern-like' Dublin set-up in 2011, that Kerry according to your information, made absolutely no provision whatsoever towards preparing for playing any team they might meet who would most likely be operating a blanket or at least swarm-type defence. If I was a Kerry fan, this would worry me, because under the circumstances, they could easily have not won the game, for the want of preparation, and due to reckless assumptions. Then again, it's tempting to speculate that it merely gives a hint as to the potential that the Kerry team possesses, if they should choose to implement the full quantity of preparation that is open to them. It's a truly frightening prospect for all other counties, we can only hope that Kerry continue to opt for giving the rest of us 'a chance' by purely preparing for games 'off-the-cuff', and based on natural instinct and tradition. sarcasm being the lowest form of wit aside re: you last paragraph rashers, a lot of what gamechanger states is true but obviously unpalatable to some posters, tough, it is what it is. I wasn't being sarcastic in the last paragraph. Now that Kerry no longer feel dependent on the purely purist style to win All-Is, and have also proven in one fell swoop that they were not, as was becoming a mantra, dependent on The Gooch, they are in a great position. They also happen to be the only county who have won All-Is as clear favourites, ie have the ability to deal with being favourites from the start and carry through to win. Not to mention the only county that has done back-to-back in 24 years. I cannot see any team out there with the deep-down belief or ruthlessness to stop them in the next two years
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Post by gamechanger10 on Oct 22, 2014 1:41:00 GMT
To be honest everyone is entitled to an opinion, one of the wonderful things about sport is that princes and paupers will have an opinion on a particular sport and their position in life will not reflect how their assertions are received. Another factor to be considered is the perception of the author, at the Kerry v Mayo game in Limerick I think that the referee would have been praised for letting the game flow if it had ended in a second draw, the scribes would have dashed to the keyboards to hail the heroic efforts by all and the public would have been treated to coloured scripts about the game and what it delivered. The failure to send off Enright would have been mentioned but varied opinion would colour the view of the neutral, neutrals are a rare animal to locate I hear you say between Kerry and Mayo, to be fair I will tip my hat on that one as we have caused the good people of Mayo more than their fair share of heartache.
I think Shane should have got the line but in defence of the referee both players were involved in a one on one exchange for the same ball, ( Granted Enright was on the totally wrong side of his man ) when Cillian won it he headed straight for the goal and Shane did what any player would do any place on the field and that is to momentarily hold the opposing player to prevent him gaining the advantage. If it occurred in the half back line would a black card been an option ?? I'm not so sure. If Cillian O Connor had won the ball five feet from Enright and tried to pass him and the same exchange resulted, then he was GONE and that was that, the fact that the ambiguity of intent to cynically pull down a player passing him for a goal and the time of the incident in the game could have coloured his view.
Kevin McStay also highlited the Enright tackle on Aidan O Shea immediately prior to the second mayo goal. My view of that was Aidan won a fantastic ball and thundered into the Kerry square, he offloaded to O Connor but his pass was poor ( In truth it should have been well gathered by Kelly ) Enright crossed the square to prevent his advance prior to his offload as I would expect from any inter county back, I believe he stood his ground and did not blind side him. The moment Aidan passed he did something that was to my viewing very non instinctive, he raised his arms and ran straight into Enright, he then fell ( with a fair amount of drama ) and hand cupped his face as if that area had been impacted by Enright ( but it clearly was not in contact in any way ). To me any advancing player would offload and drop the shoulder to instinctively protect yourself. Was that not the strangest thing to do,, run into a corner back with outstretched arms ??. O Shea could and would have done just that ( dropped his shoulder and almost diove Killian into the Kerry net ) if the meeting was 10 yards out the field.
Donaghys soft frees were given in my opinion for holding offences and not as displayed by McStay for the grappling for the ball between him and his markers. In truth if Cafferky had held his hand any longer he would have had to propose at the end of the game, it was outrageous to see that amount of holding going un punished ( and plenty more of the same in the final ). Even Mr Carr said I can't see what that free was for, he even blew the whistle before the two players came together, yeah Tommy it's called holding,,
David Moran caught a wonderful ball at the end of ordinary time and was rugby tackled before he made a failed pass ( due mainly to the blatant foul tackle ) mayo had a chance to win the game on this undeniable foul and the bauld Kevin McStay never noticed this game changer ,, even the Mayo supporters around me said Jeasus that was a Kerry free,, not often heard !!
Point I'm making is that we all have views and they differ greatly depending on our jersey colour, the battle in Limerick was a game to cherish for all supporters of our game, I remember the Dublin Kerry game last year with great pride, we lost but what an occasion. No shame in a loss to a truly wonderful team who play the game with guile and spirit. Unfortunately in the wake of the Limerick game I think there were unnecessary skuds fired on the Sunday Game by a man who is more than familiar with the politics of the game and i believe it was wrong to use his position to give biased opinion backed up by very selective footage in an effort to confirm his his agenda, pity he wasn't as protective of the virtues of fair play three years ago,,,I think it went like "he got a few calls wrong on both sides" or something like that, anyway time to put the green and gold glasses away and maybe Kevin will take off the green and red pair he wears..
Will we see the same expression of flair and skill next year ?? I hope we do but I think there will be a little more instruction to the half back lines than they have received in previous campaigns, but not all counties of course. A few others might be whispering in the ears of the half forwards, now wouldn't that be a nice thing to contemplate. Systems will come and go but skill and tradition will be a constant in winning teams. Jes' lads we are only three away from forty ha ha,,,,,,
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