seamo
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,016
|
Post by seamo on Oct 14, 2014 19:53:14 GMT
I could have sworn Donegal seniors hit the post in the final minute to draw the game?
And I still have that image of Declan O Sullivan having a goal bound shot well saved in 08 final v Tyrone.
<<<Thin lines; too thin to be telling a proven and recently successful manager that he needs to change.
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Oct 14, 2014 21:34:26 GMT
I could have sworn Donegal seniors hit the post in the final minute to draw the game? And I still have that image of Declan O Sullivan having a goal bound shot well saved in 08 final v Tyrone. <<<Thin lines; too thin to be telling a proven and recently successful manager that he needs to change. Very succinctly but crisply made Seamo. For me worryingly, well it's a forum, so pinch of salt, I'm seeing words from posts that don't really stack up. Invincibility? I dunno. Each year brings new challenges and lots of uncontrollable events that can impact a season. We're in a good place definitely but it's not so long since it wasn't so. I'm also concerned that because Fitz managed so well this year that he could be but one bad performance from the animals. The uniqueness of the unity that drove the squad this year will not be the same next year, medals have that effect. All players need to reinvent and as a team find a reason/ motivation to try and build that unbreakable tightness. This coming season will be Fitzmaurice's toughest I believe.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 14, 2014 22:01:47 GMT
If Jack was managing the seniors this year seamo we would have been beaten in any of a few games. Our minors were better than Donegal by more than the score suggests, so the conclusion I draw is that Fitzy & Co have adapted and Jack says he won't, simple as that! I don't mean to take from our minor victory and maybe the decision has been made to let fellas develop beyond minor level before introducing them to the tactics of set-up, I don't know but I'd doubt if it a good idea having seen how Donegal used it effectively against us.
I also agree with fitzwop that next year will be testing and as seamo also pointed out, there is often only a kick of a ball in it. Fitzy has raised the bar for himself but people have great faith in him and we know he will try and he will use his head. If he didn't use 'the system' this year and he lost, then next year would be even harder, that's assuming he would be still around. If JO'C lost an All Ireland by refusing to adapt to 'the system' the same would apply!
All in all I was never so looking forward to a new season, moreover with Gooch, Tommy and Darren returning. And I have no doubt there will be more arriving on that conveyor belt so the standard will high.
|
|
|
Post by donegalman on Oct 14, 2014 23:26:18 GMT
Yes KMan I would say your point about adapting is spot on. I dont think that there were all irelands really thrown away, bar 2011. I also think that your point about whether your young lads should express themselves the way they did in the minor match 3 weeks ago, or whether they should be schooled in the darker arts of ultra defensive football is a question that I cant answer nor anyone else can either, without guessing. I never felt like you were in danger of losing it, even when we came back into it in the last 15.
I would say that the real dilemma could rise from choice rather than restriction for kerry. Who does Walsh step in for? How will that person feel about a journeyman returning to take a place on the team? Is he out of practice?
The transition was a blessing in disguise, I think that certain players retired at exactly the correct time, and yes kerry players had really to step up big time, but they were obviously inspired to do this. I dont think Galvin would have been at the races this year, nor would Eoin Brosnan. O'shea would have been a very useful guy indeed for another season so his loss would have been a serious gap. Necessity can be the best situation in terms of change, and the team obviously totally trusted their manager 100%.
We dont have a forum in donegal, we are very new to this craic, despite being around a while. We have won 3 of our entire 8 ulster championships in the last 4 years. So give us another wee while and I will send a link on when it is up and running.
re the manager job in Donegal, there is nothing certain, not even gallagher. Although he would probably be the most suitable man for the job, and have the backing of the players, things are never clear cut, and I wouldnt be surprised if a totally unexpected turn of events takes place in the next week or 10. Kilcar were knocked out of the club championships at the weekend, and this could throw some scrutiny on his record.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Oct 15, 2014 7:02:56 GMT
Jack made a tactical blunder in taking off a corner forward Tomas OSe at the exact moment that Donegal had a kickout. The kickout went to the unmarked corner back and 7 seconds later twas in the Kerry net. Donegal kicked two quick points then and it was game on again. He got away with it though and it all worked out. Had Donegal pressed on then Jack would have blown it and we would all be asking why the F... wasn't Liam Carey on from the start. Winning covers up all such little debates.
If Tom Cunniffe had kicked that easy point at the end of the first game when Mayo were ahead we would be asking why KD wasn't brought on earlier. Tiny margins between hero and zero.
K-Mans point is that younger Kerry players should be conditioned to defensive systems at an earlier stage in their footballing development.... a point well worth debating. However, Tyrone do exactly that. Their college teams do it and routinely beat Kerry colleges over the past ten years. It does not guarantee any success at senior level though and Kerry are well ahead of Tyrone now at senior level.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 15, 2014 7:05:52 GMT
What page is this?
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Oct 15, 2014 7:40:23 GMT
|
|
|
Post by donegalman on Oct 15, 2014 10:18:09 GMT
Jack made a tactical blunder in taking off a corner forward Tomas OSe at the exact moment that Donegal had a kickout. The kickout went to the unmarked corner back and 7 seconds later twas in the Kerry net. Donegal kicked two quick points then and it was game on again. He got away with it though and it all worked out. Had Donegal pressed on then Jack would have blown it and we would all be asking why the F... wasn't Liam Carey on from the start. Winning covers up all such little debates.
Was the mistake in taking him off or the moment he took him off? If the later, when would have been a good time to sub him? I cant remember this exactly in the minor game. I remember the flurry of scores, but I also believe that if a team hits the back of the net, it is very usual for them to hit a purple patch when their tails are up. Every good team will rally for 5 - 7 minutes even if they lose a game, it just seems to be an unstoppable statistic in football or sport in general.
Would there be much cooperation between minor, u21 and senior in kerry or is it separate all the way?
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 15, 2014 11:14:21 GMT
I think the overriding fact is that 'the system' may be a 'dark art' in that it isn't as nice as 'purist' but that is where we are and it wins over 'purist'. I wouldn't agree entirely with Eugene Magee that Kerry is such a determining factor in what path the game takes although what he says isn't to be disregarded.
I am probably a semi-veteran, well in years anyway, and from my experiences in life I have found that to solve a problem, it is the causes that need to be addressed and not the effects, i.e. treat the cause of the pain, a tablet is best for a temporary issue but if the pain persists then the underlying cause needs to be addressed. And boy is it complex in this case. I suppose the main thing is that the standard is rising and quiet dramatically at that, although that is not always obvious when we watch it so much as we don't notice the constant if gradual increase. I have also previously mentioned an article I read about the massive advantage that amateur sports had over professional codes; the conclusion for the GAA is that we have something that is most unique in the world, e.g. the GAA is the most prominent amateur sport in the world, relative to the society in which it exists that is. It is really a 'community sport' with us Irish and that is truly spectacular. The challenge though is how do we keep it up there given the threat of 'pay per play', etc and that is is largely determined by external factors. Unfortunately one of the inherent flaws in globalisation is that it increases local inequality within countries and which is the underlying factor behind the pressure that rural clubs experience, e.g, globalisation indirectly creates the shift of people and economic activity to the greater Dublin area and hence rural depopulation, and all that goes with it. Ah, maybe I'm going in bit deep here, but as I said, that is where you need to go to address the causes! There would be lots of people who would know more about this than me and the GAA needs connect with them, just like it needs to do with media/Sky negotiations, etc. I do think it is well worth fighting for and I have no doubt we will win; the sheer physics of Gaelic games is a big plus and the world will one day wake up to the uniqueness of hurling once we change the colour of the ball so others can train the eye on the wee thing travelling at 100mph! Golfers the world over amaze at hurling, because they can keep up with the game from their eye being trained on the golf ball.
On a lighter note, it will be page 38 shortly Tomás Annascaultilidie!
|
|
Joxer
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,365
|
Post by Joxer on Oct 15, 2014 12:00:08 GMT
Jack made a tactical blunder in taking off a corner forward Tomas OSe at the exact moment that Donegal had a kickout. The kickout went to the unmarked corner back and 7 seconds later twas in the Kerry net. Donegal kicked two quick points then and it was game on again. He got away with it though and it all worked out. Had Donegal pressed on then Jack would have blown it and we would all be asking why the F... wasn't Liam Carey on from the start. Winning covers up all such little debates. If Tom Cunniffe had kicked that easy point at the end of the first game when Mayo were ahead we would be asking why KD wasn't brought on earlier. Tiny margins between hero and zero. K-Mans point is that younger Kerry players should be conditioned to defensive systems at an earlier stage in their footballing development.... a point well worth debating. However, Tyrone do exactly that. Their college teams do it and routinely beat Kerry colleges over the past ten years. It does not guarantee any success at senior level though and Kerry are well ahead of Tyrone now at senior level. Yes and no to the tactical blunder Mickmack I think. The replacement corner forward had come in but obviously (from me as a spectators point of view anyway) from where he went , had instructions to go to right corner forward and to tell Jordanm Kiely to move over to the left. It appeared to me that Jordan didn't want to move to the left corner and a debate ensued between the two players. While that was going on, Donegal kicked out to the now unmarked right-corner back who set up the move that led very quickly( within seconds)to the Donegal goal without Kerry getting a hand on the ball. I'm not sure that it was a tactical error to the extent that there was time for Jordan Kiely to go to the left corner forward position but it could be argued that it was tactical in that Jordan obviously wasn't expecting it and it hadn't been discussed as something that could happen etc. I'd be inclined, if my reading of the incident is correct, to absolve Jack of any tactical error though...
|
|
seamo
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,016
|
Post by seamo on Oct 15, 2014 15:29:41 GMT
It's the page where the f-ing animals come out and rip the sh!t out of All Ireland success's. Paidi's smiling down saying, I told ye so!!! No Ulster team won an AI title this year, unless there's some Junior C title I'm forgetting about, so I don't know why some people here feel the need to tell a Kerry manager with a collection of AI's titles how Tyrone collages or a Donegal side like to do things. It bores the ar.se off me, and Jack would share Paidi's sentiments!!! lol And just to illustrate how ridiculous this is; Dublin didn't play to the "system" that ye harp on about! They won an AI playing some purist football. They didn't lose one playing "purist" football if that's what yer thinking! Defenders playing as defenders is purist football. Ye've been listening to Joe for too long boys! Stop over dwelling on "systems" and what Ulster teams are doing that we "should be doing". Last I'll say on the matter...and this was meant to be a short winter! lol
|
|
Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
|
Post by Jigz84 on Oct 15, 2014 16:05:27 GMT
It's the page where the f-ing animals come out and rip the sh!t out of All Ireland success's. Paidi's smiling down saying, I told ye so!!! No Ulster team won an AI title this year, unless there's some Junior C title I'm forgetting about, so I don't know why some people here feel the need to tell a Kerry manager with a collection of AI's titles how Tyrone collages or a Donegal side like to do things. It bores the ar.se off me, and Jack would share Paidi's sentiments!!! lol And just to illustrate how ridiculous this is; Dublin didn't play to the "system" that ye harp on about! They won an AI playing some purist football. They didn't lose one playing "purist" football if that's what yer thinking! Defenders playing as defenders is purist football. Ye've been listening to Joe for too long boys! Stop over dwelling on "systems" and what Ulster teams are doing that we "should be doing". Last I'll say on the matter...and this was meant to be a short winter! lol Dead right Seamo.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Oct 15, 2014 18:17:51 GMT
Was looking at Don't Foul's blog and I found a very interesting stat.
The key stat that jumps out is just how how poor Kerry's shooting was in the final in terms of shooting for points.
23 shots at the post from play yielded a miserable 4 points.
Prior to the final, Kerry's average for the season had been 57%
If Kerry had matched their season average of 57% in terms of shots from play, they would have scored 13 points, which would have been a difference of 9 points.
Overall if Kerry had not won this game it would have been possibly the worst case of kicking away a final in a long long time.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Oct 15, 2014 21:02:42 GMT
SEAN MORAN
In mid-April 1943, PD Mehigan writing as Pat ’O, this newspaper’s first GAA correspondent, conducted a whistle-stop survey of the evolution of Gaelic football. With authoritative understatement he mentioned in passing that his “intimate association with the game covers a good half-century”, meaning that he could judge trends starting just a few years after the first All-Irelands.
“Wrestling and tripping were allowed in the early years. Even when these were prohibited the game was of a rough-and-tumble variety. Groups of powerful men rushed up field and swept the ball at their feet. Their opponents clustered round to halt them and counter- charge marked the exciting struggle.
“Next came Young Irelands of Dublin who introduced into the game the art of safe catching and long, accurate kicking. Their new methods were a revelation and won four titles before provincial sides adopted the new vogue.
“Kerry’s stalwart teams of the early century brought the ‘catch and kick’ game to a fine art and Dick Fitzgerald led a lot of forwards who shot points with rare accuracy.”
It was Tony O’Keeffe, currently chair of the GAA’s CCCC and then Kerry county secretary, who made the point that the county was usually there for the big occasions. This was 14 years ago and he was talking about the county’s likely participation in the millennium All-Ireland final.
Kerry pop up This was true: Kerry pop up all over the place in football history: GAA Centenary, 75th anniversary, opening of the old Cusack Stand, first 15-a-side All-Ireland and even within the strands of 37 championship wins there are other symmetries.
In 1990 Cork were the first county to mark the centenary of an All-Ireland win with another. This has been achieved on only three other occasions so far, by Kerry in 2004, 2009 and this year.
Arguably though, this year marks a more important centenary. It was 100 years ago this month that the above mentioned Dick Fitzgerald launched How To Play Gaelic Football, the first GAA coaching manual.
It marks the beginning of modern football not because previous analyses of the game were crude but because the game that Fitzgerald analysed was football with the outside posts removed, a goal worth three points and 15 players on each side, a reduction introduced the previous year in 1913. Yet that’s only a glimpse of what Fitzgerald achieved within the GAA during its most turbulent years before his sad and premature demise in 1930.
The book is still fascinating with its breakdown of the duties of various positions as well as illustrative photographs. It also includes his thoughts on the applicability of his insights to hurling and an early advocacy of the 13-man game with the centre back and centre forward positioned as the sole players at the heart of the defence.
Dick Fitzgerald: King in a Kingdom of Kings by Tom Looney is the most comprehensive account of his life and includes the full text of How to Play Gaelic Football, published in 2008. There are sill copies available on Amazon.
Such was Fitzgerald’s standing in the wider community and within the Kerry GAA that the stadium in Killarney was named after him, a project specifically to honour his memory taken in hand just after his death by his lifelong friend Jer O’Leary and Dr Eamonn O’Sullivan, the legendary Kerry trainer.
The above remarks by Pat’O reinforce the technical virtuosity of Fitzgerald and the Kerry forwards in the county’s first five All-Irelands, most famously the “screw kick” that enabled him to kick points from out in the corner, a feat he could repeat in coaching demonstrations.
Other projects in which Fitzgerald involved himself included fund-raising for the Parnell Monument in Dublin, the Croke Cup, which helped finance the acquisition of Croke Park, membership of the GAA’s Central Council and refereeing.
Frongoch camp in Wales Yet the GAA was only part of an expression of commitment to the national identity and community development. As a volunteer in the 1916 Rising, he was interned in the Frongoch camp in Wales. There he helped organise football tournaments amongst the internees, as detailed in Frongoch – University of Revolution by Seán O’Mahony. Fitzgerald was heavily involved in the struggle for independence.
On his release from Frongoch, he was elected a member of the Killarney UDC.
Margaret O’Leary, daughter of Jer, says that Fitzgerald was also interested in the wider social picture. In O’Mahony’s book he is quoted as expressing his admiration for the Irish Citizen Army – “men for whom I have a great regard” – who would have been among the most politically radical of the internees.
He died after a fall from the roof of the courthouse in Killarney on September 25th, 1930, ironically the weekend of the All-Ireland final in which Kerry faced Monaghan. His later years had been troubled by the death of his young wife shortly after their marriage and a descent into problem drinking.
Prof David Hassan of the University of Ulster Jordanstown in his paper delivered to last year’s Sports History Ireland conference, Dick Fitzgerald – Sporting and Political Revolutionary, summarises well the impact of the publication and why a century later it still carries both resonance and relevance.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Oct 16, 2014 9:29:54 GMT
Kerry's Kieran Donaghy explains Joe Brolly outburst Updated: Thursday, 16 Oct 2014 09:49 |
Kerry forward Kieran Donaghy has revealed just what the motivation was behind his now famous post All-Ireland interview when he had a blast at RTÉ pundit Joe Brolly. Donaghy played a starring role in Kerry’s 2-09 to 0-12 All-Ireland final triumph over Donegal and in the immediate aftermath of that victory, he reserved special mention for the Sunday Game analyst when he said; "I think Joe Brolly told us the production line was finished in Kerry - well, Joe Brolly, what do you think of that?" Speaking in an interview on RTÉ2’s Second Captain’s Live, Donaghy explained just how a series of newspaper articles from Brolly during the season had stuck in his mind and provided him with motivation. "He wrote an article about me about four months ago saying 'catch a falling Star' that I was finished and that I was no more good and that the tactics were gone," Donaghy said. "Then he wrote an article about four weeks after that about how Kerry football was finished and how the conveyor belt is gone and 'wrap these boys and send them off'. "You know, they’re trying to sell papers and he’s trying to make a few headlines. Joe’s well able to give it and I knew he’d be well able to take a bit of stick so when I got my chance I gave it to him. "James O’Donoghue actually came to me and he was saying 'Brolly, he had an awful lot of goes of us this year so we’ll show him today'. "He actually put it into my head but I don’t know why at that moment in time Joe Brolly and why I’d stare and roar down a camera and then walk off roaring. When I look back on it, I don’t know what I was at but sure it was probably emotion," the Austin Stacks clubman added. "When people write you off you want to answer and loads of sports people have gone through that stage of their career where people write them off and not everyone gets to be fortunate enough to get a chance to answer and thankfully my chance came."
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 16, 2014 13:33:28 GMT
Donaghy was 100% justified and should claim media rights to his setting the record straight; Brolly should be axed and get in a decent Ulster commentator. Joe is a 50% man that province needs a 100% man to do their football community justice.
It is a shame that Joe get's paid for talking rubbish while the likes of Donaghy are condemned for talking straight facts. I also believe Cody is entitled to set the record straight and any regulations that suppress facts should be abolished. Let supporters decide for themselves who to listen to and what to believe; people aren't so stupid that they can't decide for themselves, that day is gone!
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Oct 16, 2014 16:06:06 GMT
By Paddy Heaney
Do you remember the days when the All-Ireland football champions set the template for everyone else?
In 2002, Armagh got the country practising long, diagonal balls. A year later, the sale of tackle bags rocketed as Tyrone highlighted the effectiveness of ‘the swarm’.
As ever, Kerry were the first to ‘adapt’. In his autobiography Keys to the Kingdom, Jack O’Connor revealed how he recruited the services of a coach from Ulster. Jack wanted Kerry to tackle like Tyrone so he got the northerner (who we understand was from Tyrone) to show him the tackling drills that Kerry weren’t doing.
Kerry aren’t just copy and paste merchants. Now and again, they come up with something fairly original. In 2006, O’Connor reinvented the wheel when he put Kieran Donaghy on the edge of the square. All of a sudden, the biggest man in every parish was being squeezed into a No.14 jersey.
But these are strange times we are living in. The All-Ireland champions no longer set the trend. For obvious reasons, nobody copied Cork in 2010. But Dublin provide a much bigger puzzle. En route to their victory last year, Dublin produced an epic semi-final performance against Kerry. It was one of the most glorious games of football every played.
Bold, adventurous and swashbuckling: the style of Dublin’s victory over Kerry received universal praise — and rightly so. Dublin’s attacks were unrelenting. It was football without fear. No matter what Kerry threw at the Dubs, they sucked it up and came back with more of their own. It was like Ali versus Fraser.
That game last August truly inspired people. But while Dublin were festooned with praise, it was notable that they didn’t spawn any imitators.
And if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, surely that tells us something? When club and county managers studied Jim Gavin’s game plan, they reached the eminently sensible decision that it just wasn’t feasible to copy the Dubs.
With six scoring forwards and more sitting on the bench, Jim Gavin had reason to believe that he could outscore any opposition. But very few squads are blessed with that type of talent. Most teams have one, maybe two quality scoring forwards. When county managers analysed their options, they concluded that the wisest move was to copy Donegal’s defensive system. It was as if Dublin were viewed in isolation.
Even after their thrashing by Mayo last year, Donegal’s All-Ireland victory in 2012 still left a long and lasting impression. When Jim McGuinness’s legacy was assessed last week, it was widely noted how he gave hope to other counties. In 2010, Donegal were nowhere. Two years later, Michael Murphy was walking up the steps of the Hogan Stand. Most counties could identify with Donegal. They were not given a special exemption. By coping Donegal’s practices and structures, counties believed they were following the road map to success.
But by the time Donegal reached this year’s All-Ireland final, they were no longer the same source of inspiration that they were in 2012. Two years ago, Donegal’s victory was accredited to great management, superb tactics and incredible fitness. There was a different narrative this year. To pursue their All-Ireland dream, Donegal postponed their entire club championship. During the National League, they went to Portugal for a warm weather training camp. That foreign venture cost €53,000. Before they played Derry in the Championship, Donegal spent several days at the four-star Johnston House Hotel. It is a venue they have used repeatedly. There were other visits to Mullingar and the Lough Erne Golf Resort in Fermanagh.
If Donegal were regarded as a beacon of hope for the standard county, some of that status has been eroded. If winning an All-Ireland title requires the suspension of the club championship, and tens of thousands of pounds for training camps, then most counties would have to declare that they are incapable of following that blueprint.
So when Kerry beat Donegal in this year’s final, I initially had a perverse notion that the victory would generate more hope for those counties seeking to make the breakthrough.
While Eamon Fitzmaurice’s team spent a week at the Amendoeira Golf Resort in Portugal, there were no reports of week-long training camps. None of the Kerry players were being ferried to training sessions in a helicopter. Eamon Fitzmaurice proved that counties don’t need millionaire benefactors in London pumping huge money into the training fund.
However, having had time to mull over Kerry’s victory, I have reached the conclusion (not for the first time in my life) that I was completely wrong. Like Dublin’s victory, Kerry’s recent success will have minimal impact. Kerry is also regarded as a state apart.
To reach the last 12 in next year’s All-Ireland Championship, Kerry have to beat Waterford or Tipperary. To reach the same stage, Donegal have to beat Tyrone. Then they have to beat Armagh. Then they have to beat Derry or Down. By the time Kerry entered this year’s Championship against Clare, Tyrone had played three games against Down (two) and Monaghan.
No wonder Kerry can play club games during the summer. Their Championship doesn’t start until the end of June.
The usual rules don’t apply to Kerry.
For the counties in Division One and Division Two who are dreaming of September glory, they just can’t identify with Dublin’s vast resources. With 37 All-Ireland titles, and a two-game provincial Championship, Kerry also inhabit a different universe.
And that has to be a concern for the GAA. As All-Ireland champions, Dublin and Kerry will be admired. But when it comes to choosing a model for success, teams will believe that their best chance lies with copying Donegal. That means suspended club championships and a financial investment programme that is impossible to sustain.
That spells trouble. Football is in dire need of a third way.
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 16, 2014 16:49:39 GMT
I read the above article and while it is practice on here to report back on such useful stuff, I decided not to to as I feel it is so self-contradictory, and I am not criticizing Mickmack as in a way it is just a swell people tread it if only to see what nonsense is out there.
The article starts out great but Heaney shoots himself in the foot from about half way. E.g. he ignores the fact that it can be better to have serious competition at provincial level and as Tyrone proved one year with 10 games in the back door. Heaney also contradicts himself on the role of money.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Oct 16, 2014 16:57:15 GMT
It must cast a doubt over the quality of football in the north when Heaney's own county came a cropper to Longford in this years qualifiers. People don't generally set the clock by what is happening in Lonford, with all due respects to Longford.
Heaney also forgot to mention that Cork, Galway, Mayo, Roscommon and basically all the counties in the first half of the Ulster championship draw are in the pretty much the same boat as Kerry in 2015. Dublin continue in their role as jaws in the Leinster chmpionship pinkeen bowl.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Oct 16, 2014 17:26:43 GMT
Heaneys article just points up yet again the inability of some gaelic football commentators to appreciate good defending. He lauds the Dublin attacking football in 2011 game with Kerry but fails to say that it was made easy for Dublin by some awfully poor defending by Kerry at times.
Most rugby and soccer commentators have the ability to point up bad defending and appreciate good defending.
It seems to be unique to gaelic football commentators but not all to be fair.
I wonder did he appreciate good defending in 2012 when Donegal were battening down the hatches.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Oct 16, 2014 17:28:27 GMT
Thursday, August 30, 2012
By Paddy Heaney
These are wondrous times for Gaelic football.
As of last Sunday afternoon, Donegal have provided a brand new template for the game. Jim McGuinness has drawn up a revolutionary textbook and handed it to the nation.
Countless club managers and players will be inspired by Donegal’s achievements. After all, it’s only three years ago that we saw this team being ritually humiliated by Cork in an All-Ireland quarter-final.
But after two seasons with McGuinness, Donegal now stand on the brink of the ultimate accolade. They’ve already beaten the All-Ireland champions of 2008, 2009 and 2010.
Make no mistake, Donegal are going to launch more imitations than Gucci.
The main reason they will be copied so slavishly is entirely understandable. First and foremost, they have demonstrated that one of the golden rules of Gaelic football is a total fallacy.
It turns out that forwards don’t actually win games after all. Well, not the way Donegal play, they don’t.
In Sunday’s semi-final, Donegal’s inside duo of Michael Murphy and Colm McFadden scored 0-2 from play. Paddy McBrearty — who was deployed up front in the first half, also failed to get on the scoresheet.
No matter. Donegal still posted 0-16.
The most precious commodity in any club team is the scoring forward. For years, many clubs have cited the lack of a decent finisher as the reason for their continuous failure. But Donegal have now removed that excuse. They have proved beyond doubt that victory can be achieved without an inside line that scores for fun.
In doing so, Donegal have become the new champions for every underdog in the country. They have brought renewed optimism to the legions of clubs that have been perennial underachievers.
One of the greatest attractions about the Donegal template is that it seems relatively easy to copy.
After all, what is so difficult about defending with a dozen men then counter-attacking when the opposition surrenders possession? It looks pretty straightforward. But those who try to replicate the Donegal gameplan will find it’s very difficult to copy.
For starters, it requires incredible levels of fitness. In this year’s league, Donegal were still reluctant to commit players to the attack.
Then they turned up in Breffni Park for the preliminary round of the Ulster Championship. Suddenly players were blasting up the pitch from everywhere. Defenders and midfielders racked up 0-10 against Cavan.
At a recent press conference, I asked Frank McGlynn why Donegal’s defenders didn’t attack with the same abandon during the league. His response, I believe, was entirely honest. He said: “In the early days, in the McKenna Cup and the early league games, you probably didn’t have the confidence to get forward because you didn’t know if you would be able to get back and do your defensive side of things.”
That answer provides some food for thought. If Donegal weren’t convinced that they had the necessary fitness to execute their counter-attacking system during the league, what chance is there for the standard club team? Bear in mind that Donegal already had a year of hard training under McGuinness when they played in this year’s league.
Rory Kavanagh, the captain in Breffni Park, scored 0-3 from midfield. Kavanagh’s athleticism was hard earned. In the summer of 2010, the 12-stone wing-forward was instructed by Jim McGuinness to add two stone of muscle.
To achieve that goal, Kavanagh rose at 6am for gym sessions with triathlete and full-time coach, Adam Speer.
Apart from submitting himself to this physical regime, Kavanagh also followed a diet which required him to eat six to eight times a day.
Most county teams, even a good deal of club sides, will have a few individuals who will hit the gym three times a week.
The difference with Donegal is that everyone was following this schedule. Kavanagh was joined in the Letterkenny gym by Colm McFadden, Karl Lacey, Neil Gallagher and Frank McGlynn. They did early morning sessions on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Donegal trained collectively on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
And let’s not forget those double weekends. Even when McGuinness was in charge of Donegal’s U21 side, he organised weekend sessions when the players would train twice on Saturdays and Sundays.
Those long weekends were not all about fitness. The most striking aspect of Donegal’s display is their incredible chemistry. Their movement when defending and attacking appears synchronised.
The reason that it looks choreographed, of course, is because it is choreographed.
Those perfectly timed runs aren’t the result of chance. They certainly aren’t the result of doing endless drills where the ball is kicked from one cone to the next.
Nope. Just like any other performance which appears effortless, Donegal’s seamless cohesion is the outcome of many painstaking hours of rehearsal.
The overwhelming majority of coaches and players don’t feel comfortable unless they are executing drills at 100 miles per hour.
But the very best coaches have realised that for 15 players to function as a unit, it takes time, lots of time.
Jim McGuinness starts with diagrams on a page which show his players where he wants them to be. Then he takes them onto the pitch where they simulate various plays.
They do it again, and again, and again.
As Rory Kavanagh said in an interview last October: “It takes a wild amount of patience.”
For a Saturday session that was held before the Ulster final, the Donegal players gathered in Letterkenny at 9am. They left the Mount Errigal Hotel shortly after 6pm.
How many club managers who will be setting out to mimic Donegal will be prepared to devote hours to just walking through various plays? How many of them will be able to devise game-specific drills which will recreate the desired movement? Let’s not forget the reason Donegal can leave Colm McFadden and Michael Murphy isolated at one end of the pitch is because they have ultra-fit defenders and midfielders who can score after making an 80-yard sprint.
On Sunday, Frank McGlynn scored with his weaker left foot after racing half the pitch. Mark McHugh ran even farther when he fisted a point at the end of the first half. How many club players could make those runs then get back to perform defensive duties? While it’s great Donegal have fired hope into the hearts of so many managers and players, those who dare to follow them should be warned.
There can be no shortcuts. Like any well-crafted product, the process requires a considerable amount of time. Those who try to copy the Donegal designer system with unfit players who haven’t been properly drilled will end up producing cheap, poor quality imitations. And like most pirate goods, they will quickly collapse when placed under any type of strain.
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved
|
|
|
Post by southward on Oct 16, 2014 18:08:35 GMT
It must cast a doubt over the quality of football in the north when Heaney's own county came a cropper to Longford in this years qualifiers. People don't generally set the clock by what is happening in Lonford, with all due respects to Longford. Heaney also forgot to mention that Cork, Galway, Mayo, Roscommon and basically all the counties in the first half of the Ulster championship draw are in the pretty much the same boat as Kerry in 2015. Dublin continue in their role as jaws in the Leinster chmpionship pinkeen bowl. In their own back yard too. And Longford were subsequently massacred by Tipperary, the same county that Heaney sniffs at as opposition for Kerry. Really terrible article; it's all over the place.
|
|
seamo
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,016
|
Post by seamo on Oct 16, 2014 20:09:11 GMT
Poor guy is just scrambling for some relevance now.
|
|
Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,687
|
Post by Jo90 on Oct 16, 2014 20:31:21 GMT
|
|
falveyb2k
Fanatical Member
"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
Posts: 1,920
|
Post by falveyb2k on Oct 17, 2014 19:36:58 GMT
Heaney is an atrocious writer who is far too biased with regards to Ulster teams. Like the article above when Tyrone were in their pomp he wrote a whole article about their training and how it was perfect. Soon after they were dismantled by Cork and of course it had nothing to do with how good Cork were. Fast forward to 2012 and the week after Kerry destroyed Tyrone. Surprise surprise not one sentence on the actual match itself but how Kerry were cheaters and that the Gooch and Declan had been diving through the game. The man sadly is a poor proponent of his trade when we already have far too many of them!!!!!
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,123
|
Post by kerryexile on Oct 17, 2014 20:15:57 GMT
We have to remember that most journalists are under pressure to justify their own existance. After 2 minutes reading/listening to one of these I move on. This includes Brolly ....
|
|
|
Post by wayupnorth on Oct 17, 2014 21:45:54 GMT
I stopped reading when I got to the traditional whinge about how handy it was for Kerry strolling through Munster every year compared to the poor Ulster teams. Well Boo Hoo!!
Reminds me of a conversation at work when an avid Derry supporter asserted that he had two great ambitions: to see a United Ireland and to see an open draw for the Championship. I replied that the former was much more likely.
Another fella in the conversation (from the other tradition) wisely pointed out that you could only deal with whatever was put in front of you. We need more Ulstermen like that!
|
|
|
Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 18, 2014 1:34:52 GMT
I stopped reading when I got to the traditional whinge about how handy it was for Kerry strolling through Munster every year compared to the poor Ulster teams. Well Boo Hoo!! Ulster is a very competitive c'ship, with most teams capable of beating anyone on a given day. Like the Munster hurling, it's an unique competition and well worth keeping. But you have to admit the whole c'ship is lopsided. I remember noting a couple of years ago Cavan had played 2 games in Ulster and then went into the 1st qualifying round. Cork played and lost one game, and went into the 2nd qualifying round. That's just madness. Now Cavan were unlikely to win Sam then, and I'm not saying it leads to handy AIs but it definitely is advantageous in keeping players fresh and injury free.
|
|
|
Post by southward on Oct 18, 2014 9:02:44 GMT
I stopped reading when I got to the traditional whinge about how handy it was for Kerry strolling through Munster every year compared to the poor Ulster teams. Well Boo Hoo!! Ulster is a very competitive c'ship, with most teams capable of beating anyone on a given day. Like the Munster hurling, it's an unique competition and well worth keeping. But you have to admit the whole c'ship is lopsided. I remember noting a couple of years ago Cavan had played 2 games in Ulster and then went into the 1st qualifying round. Cork played and lost one game, and went into the 2nd qualifying round. That's just madness. Now Cavan were unlikely to win Sam then, and I'm not saying it leads to handy AIs but it definitely is advantageous in keeping players fresh and injury free.There's an equal argument that going into the AI series rusty is anything but advantageous. Kerry's final league game this year was on April 6th. Between then and the Q/F against Galway on 3rd August, we played Cork (who didn't show up) and Clare. Two competitive games in 4 months is hardly ideal preparation. The gap between the Munster Final and the AI Q/F is a particular problem, sometimes it's 5 or 6 weeks.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 18, 2014 13:56:49 GMT
Eliminating provincial finals would be a big loss. I agree the current system is inconsistent but so too are teams and which is the underlying issue. Of the element of the imbalance that can be addressed, the root cause lies elsewhere.
From what I can see the seeding of Cork and Kerry in Munster Football to keep them apart serves to give weaker teams the best chance of coming through in a given year, while also en ensuring the best two teams don't meet until the final, be that Cork and Kerry, or whoever in any given year.
There will always be the least affected situations and Munster Hurling and Ulster Football repeatedly have the greatest number of serious contenders. I can understand why some want an open draw but if you think it through it will solve nothing and you may well be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, I.e. strong teams will always meet weak teams unless you have seeding and which would be impossible on a national basis, and you will have lost the 8 mega events that are the provincial finals.
The only solution I see is to have more annual All Ireland competitions for teams knocked out at various levels and maybe this brings up the question of the back-door, maybe have it for teams as they are eliminated through the back door. That way they are meeting teams that should be of similar quality to themselves and which is what makes teams improve while having good gate receipts to pay for hosting them.
|
|