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Post by greengold35 on Sept 29, 2024 18:40:13 GMT
Why is there such an obsession with increasing the number of Senior clubs? Seems to me it’s just because ‘big’ clubs are now in intermediate even though the level of their team at the minute just isn’t good enough. Crokes, Dingle and Kenmare are 3 very good club teams, Rathmore are also good. Spa and Templenoe are adequate. Na Gaeil and Milltown are relatively poor in my eyes. What teams in the intermediate really deserve to be Senior? Possibly Stacks but even then some of their performances are far off the level. I would not see it as an obsession but an attempt to increase competition and participation. Competition: East Kerry is a classic case of an amalgamation of clubs who in reality are senior masquerading as intermediate clubs and I am not necessarily including Fossa in that. They ( EK) are comprised of clubs who all operate in senior county league division 1 - Legion, Glenflesk, Kilcummin, recently Rathmore, Gneeveguilla - most people would see this year's county championship as a foregone conclusion given the strength of EK. EK won a county championship where only Shane Ryan and Paul Murphy represented their club - they were in effect a senior team playing intermediate and proved it by winning the AI intermediate championship and more than holding their own in senior county championship. You could argue that between 6/7 Rathmore lads were deprived the opportunity of playing at the highest level. Participation: The aim of the county championship is to have as many players as possible perform at the highest level - you had a situation a few years ago where Dónal " Down" was in the Kerry senior panel yet could not get into the starting XV of Ek - surely that cannot be right? Paul O'Shea, a Kerry panellist and a guy who is playing good football for his club cannot make the East Kerry starting line up - this defeats the purpose of giving guys the opportunity to play at the highest level in the county. Some of the so called bigger clubs, Austin Stacks, Kerins O'Rahillys, Laune Rangers are intermediate for a reason - loss of players, younger players being blooded - they probably would not cut it at a higher level at the moment. Increasing the number of senior clubs will weaken some districts and perhaps make for a more competitive championship - the alternative is to look at dividing some of the stronger divisional combinations. |
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Post by The16thMan on Sept 29, 2024 18:52:55 GMT
Why is there such an obsession with increasing the number of Senior clubs? Seems to me it’s just because ‘big’ clubs are now in intermediate even though the level of their team at the minute just isn’t good enough. Crokes, Dingle and Kenmare are 3 very good club teams, Rathmore are also good. Spa and Templenoe are adequate. Na Gaeil and Milltown are relatively poor in my eyes. What teams in the intermediate really deserve to be Senior? Possibly Stacks but even then some of their performances are far off the level. I would not see it as an obsession but an attempt to increase competition and participation. Competition: East Kerry is a classic case of an amalgamation of clubs who in reality are senior masquerading as intermediate clubs and I am not necessarily including Fossa in that. They ( EK) are comprised of clubs who all operate in senior county league division 1 - Legion, Glenflesk, Kilcummin, recently Rathmore, Gneeveguilla - most people would see this year's county championship as a foregone conclusion given the strength of EK. EK won a county championship where only Shane Ryan and Paul Murphy represented their club - they were in effect a senior team playing intermediate and proved it by winning the AI intermediate championship and more than holding their own in senior county championship. You could argue that between 6/7 Rathmore lads were deprived the opportunity of playing at the highest level. Participation: The aim of the county championship is to have as many players as possible perform at the highest level - you had a situation a few years ago where Dónal " Down" was in the Kerry senior panel yet could not get into the starting XV of Ek - surely that cannot be right? Paul O'Shea, a Kerry panellist and a guy who is playing good football for his club cannot make the East Kerry starting line up - this defeats the purpose of giving guys the opportunity to play at the highest level in the county. Some of the so called bigger clubs, Austin Stacks, Kerins O'Rahillys, Laune Rangers are intermediate for a reason - loss of players, younger players being blooded - they probably would not cut it at a higher level at the moment. Increasing the number of senior clubs will weaken some districts and perhaps make for a more competitive championship - the alternative is to look at dividing some of the stronger divisional combinations. The one argument I have to this is, how many Districts need weakening. East Kerry, obviously and to a much lesser degree Brendan's or Mid.Kerry (which will happen to 1 depending on who wins the intermediate).... The rest of the districts won't come within an arses roar of the teams who are likely to make this years semi finals in my opinion... Who's gonna pay €10 or €15 to watch South Kerry v Crokes or East Kerry vs Shannon Rangers. We need a more competitive structure and in my opinion we have too many teams in the County Championship. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 29, 2024 19:18:35 GMT
There should be a regular rebalancing of the district teams as they are a complete made up concept anyways.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Sept 29, 2024 19:36:55 GMT
It’s the elephant in the room. Trying to play 2 championships is crazy, the season is 2 short. The club championships have taken over, the crowds can tell you , club champs well attended, the county , attendance very poor. Time to end the divisional championship serves no purpose what so ever, 10 teams against 1, tells its own story, madness when you apply logic. We still have open club championships to be played, disrupting our clubs preparing for the all ireland series. Play a divisional championship if needs over November and December, with 6 teams, north, south, east, west, Killarney and Tralee. Time to catch up with the times imo. I don’t agree just yet as I do think that the divisional teams offer something but they need to be rebalanced every season to ensure that they are all competitive and there no needs to be some penalty for poor performance I am no expert but people are voting with their feet, not attending championship games, compare this to club games, all well attended. On top of this the calendar is just not working. |
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exiled
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Post by exiled on Sept 29, 2024 20:02:51 GMT
One idea is to give the club champions a straight entry into the munster championship and forget about the ridiculous second run for clubs. Then run a restructured divisional championship without the county players.
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Post by legendz on Sept 29, 2024 20:10:09 GMT
A strange decision to have no relegation for 3 seasons effectively. Where did that decision come from? I assume nobody from either of Milltown/Castlemaine or na Gaeil had anything to do with it? A by product of increasing the number of senior clubs from 8 to 10. The focus being on teams only getting promoted by winning the intermediate championship. |
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Post by legendz on Sept 29, 2024 20:13:14 GMT
A big problem is we don't have 8 competitive districts. Only 3 left in quarter finals show that. 5 clubs left, Dingle and Crokes are ahead of the other 3. Maybe a Championship where the best 4 districts (how u figure out the best 4 is another question), along with the top 4 senior clubs (maybe 4 semi finalists from Club Championship) make up an 8 team County Championship. Would be a lot more competitive. It feels like the rounds this year so far and possibly next round will be added to that, are just a case of eliminating teams we already knew wouldn't have a chance of winning it. There is a solution that could work: 1. Increase the no of senior clubs to 12 by adding this years 4 county intermediate semi finalists 2 . The senior club championship to consist of 4 groups of 3 clubs. 3 . The top team in each group then go onto the senior club semis. 4. The bottom club in each group (4) return to play with their division in the senior COUNTY championship with the traditional 8 clubs & 8 districts competing. Relegation from senior club would involve play offs between the bottom 4 clubs - you can relegate 1 or maybe two clubs per season. The COUNTY championship needs to be revitalised- the numbers attending are dropping - 2023 income was down 50% on 2022, this year will undoubtedly see another decrease. The new format for 2026 is locked in. I don't think the county board will be for turning. It will be a bit bizarre that the Senior Club Championship will have 1 group of 4 and 2 groups of 3. The county board in their infinite wisdom know best! |
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Post by legendz on Sept 29, 2024 20:17:10 GMT
It’s the elephant in the room. Trying to play 2 championships is crazy, the season is 2 short. The club championships have taken over, the crowds can tell you , club champs well attended, the county , attendance very poor. Time to end the divisional championship serves no purpose what so ever, 10 teams against 1, tells its own story, madness when you apply logic. We still have open club championships to be played, disrupting our clubs preparing for the all ireland series. Play a divisional championship if needs over November and December, with 6 teams, north, south, east, west, Killarney and Tralee. Time to catch up with the times imo. The 2026 Senior Club Championship format for 10 teams is a bit bizarre. The Senior County Championship should be fine though. 8 divisional clubs playoff. The 4 losers will get a second chance to qualify for the county championship. 10 senior clubs and 6 divisional clubs are then into straight knockout. I think that approach is fair enough. The district teams do need at least a second game to possibly gel. |
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Post by The16thMan on Sept 29, 2024 20:18:21 GMT
Fixtures confirmed for quarter finals:
Saturday October 5th:
St. Brendans v Kenmare Shamrocks @ 3.30pm in Fitzgerald Stadium Killarney.
Sunday October 6th:
Fitzgerald Stadium Killarney
Templenoe v Dingle @ 1.30pm
Dr. Crokes v Rathmore @ 3.30pm
Austin Stack Park Tralee
East Kerry v St. Kierans @ 2pm
Supposed to be ladies finals fixed for Tralee on Sunday, not sure what the plan is for them now.
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Post by hurlingman on Sept 29, 2024 21:04:27 GMT
There is a solution that could work: 1. Increase the no of senior clubs to 12 by adding this years 4 county intermediate semi finalists 2 . The senior club championship to consist of 4 groups of 3 clubs. 3 . The top team in each group then go onto the senior club semis. 4. The bottom club in each group (4) return to play with their division in the senior COUNTY championship with the traditional 8 clubs & 8 districts competing. Relegation from senior club would involve play offs between the bottom 4 clubs - you can relegate 1 or maybe two clubs per season. The COUNTY championship needs to be revitalised- the numbers attending are dropping - 2023 income was down 50% on 2022, this year will undoubtedly see another decrease. The new format for 2026 is locked in. I don't think the county board will be for turning. It will be a bit bizarre that the Senior Club Championship will have 1 group of 4 and 2 groups of 3. The county board in their infinite wisdom know best! You really would have to wonder at times how the GAA think some of these decisions are made. |
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Post by kerryblueboy on Sept 29, 2024 21:06:57 GMT
It is beyond stupidity that there is 1 north Kerry team at u15-17-20 and not at senior won the u20 championship last year and some of them not playing country championship this year
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Post by The16thMan on Sept 29, 2024 21:53:47 GMT
It is beyond stupidity that there is 1 north Kerry team at u15-17-20 and not at senior won the u20 championship last year and some of them not playing country championship this year I agree, 4 districts (Feale Rangers, St.Kierans, Shannon Rangers & St.Brendans) for North Kerry clubs at Senior level and 4 districts to make up the rest of the county doesn't make much sense. Especially when those 4 North Kerry districts haven't had much success in the past 20 years except the 1 year Feale Rangers won the Championship in 2007 (which was a shock at the time). If you had 5 districts, North, South, East, West & Mid. That would still give plenty chances to fellas who aren't in senior clubs to play County Championship. |
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Sept 29, 2024 22:39:51 GMT
Feale and Shannon Rangers should be joined up at Senior level. Even together they’d be a good way off winning it. Also the giving players a chance doesn’t really apply as they’re would be lads starting who wouldn’t make an East Kerry 30 man panel.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 30, 2024 8:45:58 GMT
Good post Greengold35.
Just on the topic of players being in the Kerry squad it doesn’t mean what it used to. I cannot see what Paul O’Shea has done in the last 2 or 3 years to be in there.
Far more confusing is the situation with Austin Stacks. They appear to have 5 in the squad yet they are in division 2 and playing Intermediate. They say the league table doesn’t lie (nor does the county championship relegation in this case). It begs the question are there players in the top division being overlooked because they are with the “wrong” club.
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Post by shannonsider on Sept 30, 2024 10:20:05 GMT
Feale and Shannon Rangers should be joined up at Senior level. Even together they’d be a good way off winning it. Also the giving players a chance doesn’t really apply as they’re would be lads starting who wouldn’t make an East Kerry 30 man panel. That’s a completely obvious move that the County board should just force at this stage. Shannon Rangers and Feale Rangers aren’t serious entities at this stage unfortunately. A combined NK team if done right with good people on management would be competitive. Ironically I think such has been the strength in NK underage in recent years that you could comfortably have had 2 Minor and U20s teams in county championship - maybe that’s a temporary thing but if that continues I’d favour a reverse of current system. Shannon Rangers and Feale Rangers enter minor and u20 championships and one Senior NK team. Widens the net and gives more underage players exposure to a high level and then should make the Senior situation a bit better. |
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Post by homerj on Sept 30, 2024 10:43:09 GMT
Shannon Rangers had a good year, playing 3 club teams was difficult draw but they beat one, drew with one and put up a good show against Rathmore.
i dont know anything about them apart from the match reports but they appear to have a young team and good players coming through also. id leave them alone, having a good manager this year, helped alot.
Feale Rangers were semi finalists 2 years ago, i have no idea who was their manager this year but maybe just needs a small reshuffle - with Emmets being intermediate and several good players across Senans, Finuge, Moyvane and Duagh, theres more than enough there for 2 teams.
its all about being competitive, they dont have to be challenging for a title just now, that may come in 5 or 6 years time.
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Post by shannonsider on Sept 30, 2024 12:32:59 GMT
Shannon Rangers had a good year, playing 3 club teams was difficult draw but they beat one, drew with one and put up a good show against Rathmore. i dont know anything about them apart from the match reports but they appear to have a young team and good players coming through also. id leave them alone, having a good manager this year, helped alot. Feale Rangers were semi finalists 2 years ago, i have no idea who was their manager this year but maybe just needs a small reshuffle - with Emmets being intermediate and several good players across Senans, Finuge, Moyvane and Duagh, theres more than enough there for 2 teams. its all about being competitive, they dont have to be challenging for a title just now, that may come in 5 or 6 years time. No point commenting on the abilities of Shannon Rangers manager when you have 19 players (and no goalie) for a Senior county championship game! That tells you all you need to know. And from what I’ve been hearing there was little to no training done. I’d love if Shannon Rangers was taken seriously as I believe there would be a decent team possibly but the reality is the interest isn’t there from players or clubs largely. Feale Rangers maybe slightly better in terms of personnel but nowhere near their best possible team either. I’m not saying you need to be winning county championships but currently both Shannon and Feale are a waste of time for the most point in my view. And as I said previously I think things are ar*eways with North Kerry underage teams and 2 Senior teams - the reverse would make more sense. |
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Post by kerryblueboy on Sept 30, 2024 14:04:33 GMT
That was a disaster looking for a keeper a couple of hours before the game because 3 players went to the races instead of a county championship game
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Sept 30, 2024 14:51:51 GMT
That was a disaster looking for a keeper a couple of hours before the game because 3 players went to the races instead of a county championship game Listowel races I’d say. |
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Post by legendz on Sept 30, 2024 15:33:43 GMT
Placing restrictions on the formation of divisional clubs was discussed a lot on here a few years ago.
I don't think a divisional club should contain more than 3 intermediate clubs.
There should be a minimum standard as well. A divisional club should contain at least 1 intermediate club and possibly 2 junior premier clubs, or else at least 5 junior premier clubs if there are no intermediate clubs.
How to align the 8 divisional clubs with those constraints or something along those lines will be a conundrum though. I don't think the powers that be want that headache!
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Post by kerrysouth on Sept 30, 2024 15:34:06 GMT
If they went to the races more luck to them but it does sum up the priorities of some of players in this district can’t blame the management for that in fairness
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 30, 2024 15:34:15 GMT
That was a disaster looking for a keeper a couple of hours before the game because 3 players went to the races instead of a county championship game Is that serious? Or are you takin the mick? |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 30, 2024 15:37:35 GMT
Placing restrictions on the formation of divisional clubs was discussed a lot on here a few years ago. I don't think a divisional club should contain more than 3 intermediate clubs. There should be a minimum standard as well. A divisional club should contain at least 1 intermediate club and possibly 2 junior premier clubs, or else at least 5 junior premier clubs if there are no intermediate clubs. How to align the 8 divisional clubs with those constraints or something along those lines will be a conundrum though. I don't think the powers that be want that headache! Divisional teams are artificial constructs and subject to change every year as it currently stands. So the county board taking ownership of and responsibility for this with the intention of improving the senior championship is not an outlandish idea. Things being difficult isn’t a sufficient reason for a dereliction of duties |
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Post by kerryblueboy on Sept 30, 2024 16:17:27 GMT
That was a disaster looking for a keeper a couple of hours before the game because 3 players went to the races instead of a county championship game Is that serious? Or are you takin the mick? true im afraid no buy in whatsoever into Shannon rangers in the last 20/30 years |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 30, 2024 18:47:35 GMT
That was a disaster looking for a keeper a couple of hours before the game because 3 players went to the races instead of a county championship game Is that serious? Or are you takin the mick? No, unfortunately he speaks the truth, Beale keeper stepped in last minute and actually got injured and I think Tarbert outfield player went in goals... |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 30, 2024 20:31:19 GMT
Is that serious? Or are you takin the mick? No, unfortunately he speaks the truth, Beale keeper stepped in last minute and actually got injured and I think Tarbert outfield player went in goals... Ffs, this only adds fuel to the fire of what some say on here about divisional teams. A division 5 team wouldn’t be scratching around for players like that |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 30, 2024 20:36:14 GMT
No, unfortunately he speaks the truth, Beale keeper stepped in last minute and actually got injured and I think Tarbert outfield player went in goals... Ffs, this only adds fuel to the fire of what some say on here about divisional teams. A division 5 team wouldn’t be scratching around for players like that What immediately came into my mind was a month ago Cromane were struggling for a keeper and Sean Bàn came out of retirement... |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 30, 2024 21:31:17 GMT
Ffs, this only adds fuel to the fire of what some say on here about divisional teams. A division 5 team wouldn’t be scratching around for players like that What immediately came into my mind was a month ago Cromane were struggling for a keeper and Sean Bàn came out of retirement... Saved a penalty aswell I believe 😉 |
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 30, 2024 22:56:47 GMT
Ya that 96 week incident was about eight or so years ago, it is always messy when a player wants to transfer, in particular for the home club, their hands are tied as in reality if the player does not want to tog with them, he is no longer of any use to the club. True Jack dropped him saying he needed to play higher quality football If that was said by the Kerry manager, it should be tackled by the kerry county board with the manager, it could just be a rumour without basis. It goes against a key principal of kerry football for generations that any player no matter how small his club is can make the kerry senior team and there are many many examples of players from tiny clubs becoming great Kerry players. That is why we have divisional teams, if players are dropped for playing with small clubs well then why bother with divisional teams at all? In terms of the player in question, he was on development squads as a teenager, a star kerry minor and under 20\21 and made the kerry senior panel playing with his native club, surely he doesnt need to be playing with a bigger club now to make the kerry senior squad. some kick in the nuts for small clubs if that is where we have found ourselves |
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 30, 2024 23:03:02 GMT
Feale and Shannon Rangers should be joined up at Senior level. Even together they’d be a good way off winning it. Also the giving players a chance doesn’t really apply as they’re would be lads starting who wouldn’t make an East Kerry 30 man panel. That’s a completely obvious move that the County board should just force at this stage. Shannon Rangers and Feale Rangers aren’t serious entities at this stage unfortunately. A combined NK team if done right with good people on management would be competitive. Ironically I think such has been the strength in NK underage in recent years that you could comfortably have had 2 Minor and U20s teams in county championship - maybe that’s a temporary thing but if that continues I’d favour a reverse of current system. Shannon Rangers and Feale Rangers enter minor and u20 championships and one Senior NK team. Widens the net and gives more underage players exposure to a high level and then should make the Senior situation a bit better. West Kerry have a terrible record in recent times, why all the focus on Feale Rangers and Shannon Rangers when they are not performing In fact they have performed better than other divisional teams Shannon Rangers performed better than a good few divisional and club teams in 2024 |
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