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Post by Lolly Valance on Aug 14, 2024 12:21:57 GMT
Looking at it from the outside I can see why Micheál decided to step away. Especially after this year. Seeing his KOR and Laois teams play they always played football and tried to move the ball from back to front quickly. Its hard to marry that to what Kerry were playing in the last 18 months. I don’t think it matters who comes in to be honest if we are insisting on playing this style of football.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 14, 2024 12:48:06 GMT
Looking at it from the outside I can see why Micheál decided to step away. Especially after this year. Seeing his KOR and Laois teams play they always played football and tried to move the ball from back to front quickly. Its hard to marry that to what Kerry were playing in the last 18 months. I don’t think it matters who comes in to be honest if we are insisting on playing this style of football. A change at the top should see a different style - we have lost our tradition, replaced it with tedious boring tactics - surely this has to change. We now hold onto possession ad nauseam, have no idea how to involve David C in a tight game - Tally’s influence, for me, is to our detriment & the manager has shown no ambition in how to win games. One instance is the Armagh game - we were 4 points up 3 times: 0-06 to 0-02, 0-10 to 0-06, 1-11 to 0-10 - we kept giving up the kick out all day instead of going for the kill - this was especially evident after our goal - why did we not change our approach then & attack? Why - our conservatism, that’s why. Gavin White, for me, now epitomises our approach - a dynamic wing back, who loves to attack - that has changed dramatically over past two years - he barely gets forward now, deliveries are mostly by hand - it’s a regressive style & looks like a fear of losing rather than an approach to winning.
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Post by kerryblueboy on Aug 14, 2024 12:54:06 GMT
Quirke should be nowhere near the conversation for the next Kerry manager done nothing to be considered saying he is popular with the players is like the old Donie Buckley talk tally is in the running for the Monaghan job apparently so might be a big overhaul
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Post by hurlingman on Aug 14, 2024 13:14:12 GMT
Quirke should be nowhere near the conversation for the next Kerry manager done nothing to be considered saying he is popular with the players is like the old Donie Buckley talk tally is in the running for the Monaghan job apparently so might be a big overhaul Same was said about Fitzmaurice about how much he was liked etc by the players and that didn't end well.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Aug 14, 2024 13:31:55 GMT
This is exactly the kind of thing I feared would be seen as a solution to our woes. While it appears to be a personal decision by Mike and not the Co. Board, it is still the edges that are being tinkered with. It won’t change anything if the manager remains the same. Damien Duff walked away from Stephen Kenny and it didn’t make a blind bit of difference. A cleanout is needed. Any comments about Mike Quirke and Laois have to be seen in the long shadow of John Sugrue. Laois appointed two new managers John and Eddie Brennan as hurling manager. John had great success and after a couple of years had a meeting with the Co. Board after which John left the role. Eddie Brennan stayed on as hurling manager. Dual counties always give priority to hurling. It would appear that John did not get the support he wanted from the board to progress further. Mike took up the role after that. He was taking a job where support was limited. He was pushing a rock up a mountain. Things have gotten even worse for Laois football.
Regardless of that, Mike is not the man to take over now. Even if his philosophy favours attacking football he needs a period in quarantine to decontaminate.
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Post by shannonsider on Aug 14, 2024 14:27:37 GMT
How did his time as an inter county manager go? It was mixed - two year stint, took them over whilst they were in Div 2, maintained their status, beat Longford in Leinster championship. Following year relegated after losing a play off, lost heavily to Westmeath. My point is the guy has the experience & I think we need change at the top - we have, under Jack & Tally, regressed in my opinion . His time in Laois was an utter disaster and trying to spin it is hilarious. They were beaten in pretty much every game in his second year including a record championship defeat to Westmeath by 20 pts I think it was. And this is the man you want in charge of Kerry? I can only pray the county board hold candidates to higher standards.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 14, 2024 15:26:46 GMT
A selector is essentially a second fiddle and his influence is down to the managers openness to listen - Jack is very much his own man and I believe his selectors have limited input - others have left after giving it a year or more, possibly when they tire of not being able to influence the direction as much as they like.
The one positive of being a selector is being on the inside, getting to know the players and the set up. Any decent coach (and Quirke is a decent coach) would benefit from being a selector for a couple of years and would improve their chances of taking the #1 position in the future.
Those pointing to his lack of success with Laois need to ask what have Laois achieved with and without him - very difficult to make a silk purse from a sows ear.....
Thanks for your service Mike and we may or may not see you involved with the senior team in the future.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 14, 2024 15:46:17 GMT
It was mixed - two year stint, took them over whilst they were in Div 2, maintained their status, beat Longford in Leinster championship. Following year relegated after losing a play off, lost heavily to Westmeath. My point is the guy has the experience & I think we need change at the top - we have, under Jack & Tally, regressed in my opinion . His time in Laois was an utter disaster and trying to spin it is hilarious. They were beaten in pretty much every game in his second year including a record championship defeat to Westmeath by 20 pts I think it was. And this is the man you want in charge of Kerry? I can only pray the county board hold candidates to higher standards. There’s no spin - his first year in charge in Div 2 , Laois gains 7 points, 3 wins and a draw - one of those wins was against Armagh who were one of the 2 promoted teams. His second year was against the backdrop of Covid - a 4 team league, they lost all 3. Laois, in isolation, should not define Quirke - he is a very fine coach, has a deep knowledge of the game & modern in his thinking.
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Post by shannonsider on Aug 14, 2024 15:51:57 GMT
His time in Laois was an utter disaster and trying to spin it is hilarious. They were beaten in pretty much every game in his second year including a record championship defeat to Westmeath by 20 pts I think it was. And this is the man you want in charge of Kerry? I can only pray the county board hold candidates to higher standards. There’s no spin - his first year in charge in Div 2 , Laois gains 7 points, 3 wins and a draw - one of those wins was against Armagh who were one of the 2 promoted teams. His second year was against the backdrop of Covid - a 4 team league, they lost all 3. Laois, in isolation, should not define Quirke - he is a very fine coach, has a deep knowledge of the game & modern in his thinking. Listen, opinions can differ but you are either a club mate or related to Quirke if you think he’s Kerry manager material would be my reading of it. You’d say something if a guy had a top track record at club level or underage level with schools or Kerry but he has none of that. What’s your justification for saying “he’s a fine coach who has a deep knowledge of the game”?? Podcasts and media stuff?
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 14, 2024 16:03:52 GMT
There’s no spin - his first year in charge in Div 2 , Laois gains 7 points, 3 wins and a draw - one of those wins was against Armagh who were one of the 2 promoted teams. His second year was against the backdrop of Covid - a 4 team league, they lost all 3. Laois, in isolation, should not define Quirke - he is a very fine coach, has a deep knowledge of the game & modern in his thinking. Listen, opinions can differ but you are either a club mate or related to Quirke if you think he’s Kerry manager material would be my reading of it. You’d say something if a guy had a top track record at club level or underage level with schools or Kerry but he has none of that. What’s your justification for saying “he’s a fine coach who has a deep knowledge of the game”?? Podcasts and media stuff? Ha , I am neither a club mate nor a relation!! I have attended some of his coaching sessions, listened to his theories & have been impressed by him - he has managed @ club & county level & just served 3 years with our senior team. Other posters here have high opinions of him also - “ Any decent coach (and Quirke is a decent coach) would benefit from being a selector for a couple of years and would improve their chances of taking the #1 position in the future.“ As you say, it’s just an opinion - I think we need change at the top & would not mind if he was the man to get the job. You think otherwise, that’s your prerogative.
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Post by veteran on Aug 14, 2024 16:09:50 GMT
Did I read here that Paddy Tally is being considered for the Monaghan job? Any Monaghan officer reading this Forum please take note. He is your man. A more insightful, creative , forward thinking guru you will not find on this island. I repeat “ forward “ thinking . Most contributors to this Forum will testify to that. As a sweetener, as a gesture of goodwill , as a luck penny we are prepared to throw in the other members of our think tank. They work best as a unit. Don’t dither now. There will be cut throat competition for these boys.
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Post by Ballydonoghoor on Aug 14, 2024 19:21:26 GMT
There will be posturing, suspicion, conspiracy, fear of what the neighbours might think, etc - if Kerry are the greatest then we should rise above all that nonsense and let our voice be heard.
For my tuppence worth, how can we expect Cillian to sacrifice another year, maybe his career; and indeed the 35 others and the backroom team and the supporters, when we are consistently playing with fear, fear and more fear?
Methinks it is bata agus bóthar for where that fear comes from or no céad míle fáilte go Chorn Sam Mhic Uidhir í 2025!
Otherwise it will spread - it already has!
Those more expert than the likes of me need to talk up - I don't hear any voices saying anyone should stay so is it a silent majority or is there an elephant in the room?
Ballyfireside quote of the day - He who can't change himself can't change anything, and if he could why didn't he?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 14, 2024 19:56:23 GMT
Did I read here that Paddy Tally is being considered for the Monaghan job? Any Monaghan officer reading this Forum please take note. He is your man. A more insightful, creative , forward thinking guru you will not find on this island. I repeat “ forward “ thinking . Most contributors to this Forum will testify to that. As a sweetener, as a gesture of goodwill , as a luck penny we are prepared to throw in the other members of our think tank. They work best as a unit. Don’t dither now. There will be cut throat competition for these boys. Mystic Murt suggesting Tally will stay but someone else is leaving.
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Post by ciarrai74 on Aug 14, 2024 20:22:49 GMT
Rumour mill in full flow. Heard on the grapevine that P.Tally is going elsewhere plus we will have a new Strength and Conditioning team too.
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Post by Lolly Valance on Aug 14, 2024 20:34:31 GMT
Can't see the S&C changing. Is mcgahan not a full time county board employee?
Looking back over the threads from the last year our two, both Quinlan at minor level and tom se at u20 have been criticised as being too defensive at times.
I think quirke will make a good manager in the future. Not saying he is a cert to be a Kerry manager but, could see him involved as part of a ticket with the likes of Sean Sullivan, Donaghy and a Galvin or mahony
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Aug 14, 2024 20:54:03 GMT
I think quirke will make a good manager in the future. Not saying he is a cert to be a Kerry manager but, could see him involved as part of a ticket with the likes of Sean Sullivan, Donaghy and a Galvin or mahony Just about to post similar, I'd add in Declan Sull or Tomàs and maybe some of the failed ticket that opposed Jack the last time, namely Stephen Stack, Cinnéide or Seamus.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Aug 14, 2024 20:59:15 GMT
There’s no spin - his first year in charge in Div 2 , Laois gains 7 points, 3 wins and a draw - one of those wins was against Armagh who were one of the 2 promoted teams. His second year was against the backdrop of Covid - a 4 team league, they lost all 3. Laois, in isolation, should not define Quirke - he is a very fine coach, has a deep knowledge of the game & modern in his thinking. Listen, opinions can differ but you are either a club mate or related to Quirke if you think he’s Kerry manager material would be my reading of it. You’d say something if a guy had a top track record at club level or underage level with schools or Kerry but he has none of that. What’s your justification for saying “he’s a fine coach who has a deep knowledge of the game”?? Podcasts and media stuff? I'm not clubmate or relative but have seen Mike's capabilities .. put it this way, hypothetically speaking, if Jack stepped away .. can you name many coaches with a better CV then Mike?
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Aug 14, 2024 21:15:27 GMT
Did I read here that Paddy Tally is being considered for the Monaghan job? Any Monaghan officer reading this Forum please take note. He is your man. A more insightful, creative , forward thinking guru you will not find on this island. I repeat “ forward “ thinking . Most contributors to this Forum will testify to that. As a sweetener, as a gesture of goodwill , as a luck penny we are prepared to throw in the other members of our think tank. They work best as a unit. Don’t dither now. There will be cut throat competition for these boys. Mystic Murt suggesting Tally will stay but someone else is leaving. Only other main member of the main management team is Diarmuid Murphy really. He is also suggesting that either Tomas or Fitzmaurice is coming in, Tomas is more believable but Murt isn’t exactly a rock solid source. If I was Tomas I’d be staying well away, I can’t see why he’d associate himself with a Jack O’Connor management team at this stage.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Aug 14, 2024 21:18:39 GMT
Did I read here that Paddy Tally is being considered for the Monaghan job? Any Monaghan officer reading this Forum please take note. He is your man. A more insightful, creative , forward thinking guru you will not find on this island. I repeat “ forward “ thinking . Most contributors to this Forum will testify to that. As a sweetener, as a gesture of goodwill , as a luck penny we are prepared to throw in the other members of our think tank. They work best as a unit. Don’t dither now. There will be cut throat competition for these boys. Mystic Murt suggesting Tally will stay but someone else is leaving. Mystic Murty..christ...
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Post by Lolly Valance on Aug 14, 2024 21:29:12 GMT
I would take anything Murt says with a bucket as opposed to a pinch of salt. Tomas would be better off staying clear. If he could win an all Ireland with the 20s next year or reach a final he would be well placed for the top job if Jack goes.
I don't know what Fitzmaurice would add to the current setup to be honest. I don't know would anyone get the leeway to do things differently. The only way Kerry will change under Jack is if he himself decides to ditch the defensive and slow play. Maybe Jim Gavin's new rules will force him to.
I know it's very different times but, Kerry kicked a lot in his first two stints. Even in 22 we kicked the ball more.
I feel the natives are getting restless. A couple more boring games with defensive football to start next year's league with and the knives will well and truly be out. They are being sharpened already.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 14, 2024 22:02:35 GMT
Best of Luck to Michael Quirke
And fair play to him - not many of us on this site will ever be able to say that we were a coach on an ireland winning senior set up
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Post by taggert on Aug 14, 2024 22:21:06 GMT
Best of Luck to Michael Quirke And fair play to him - not many of us on this site will ever be able to say that we were a coach on an ireland winning senior set up Good luck to him indeed and he deserves credit for his time and effort. Personally, I do not see him involved when Jack's term ends in any shape or form. I think he talked a far better game than he played. A lot more required on the CV in terms of delivery rather than strategy.....
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Aug 14, 2024 22:37:00 GMT
I don’t know why people are beating about the bush. Forget the league. If we don’t see major change by November, 2025 will be a write off again.
We have what is arguably the most previous precious heritage in Irish sport. It is slipping out of our grip. It is unthinkable that one man’s ego is postponing any steps to rectify the situation.
Corrected.
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Post by taggert on Aug 14, 2024 22:37:58 GMT
His time in Laois was an utter disaster and trying to spin it is hilarious. They were beaten in pretty much every game in his second year including a record championship defeat to Westmeath by 20 pts I think it was. And this is the man you want in charge of Kerry? I can only pray the county board hold candidates to higher standards. There’s no spin - his first year in charge in Div 2 , Laois gains 7 points, 3 wins and a draw - one of those wins was against Armagh who were one of the 2 promoted teams. His second year was against the backdrop of Covid - a 4 team league, they lost all 3. Laois, in isolation, should not define Quirke - he is a very fine coach, has a deep knowledge of the game & modern in his thinking. Thats simply not enough. Not by a long shot.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Aug 15, 2024 5:29:50 GMT
There’s no spin - his first year in charge in Div 2 , Laois gains 7 points, 3 wins and a draw - one of those wins was against Armagh who were one of the 2 promoted teams. His second year was against the backdrop of Covid - a 4 team league, they lost all 3. Laois, in isolation, should not define Quirke - he is a very fine coach, has a deep knowledge of the game & modern in his thinking. Thats simply not enough. Not by a long shot. The reality is that we don’t have any potential replacement with inter county experience, bar Eamon Fitz. Mike was up there with guys with a required level of coaching experience at a senior/20 level, others in no order, Kieran Don. Mark Fitz Tomas O Shea Sugrue with Laois After that I am wondering any others. So for me the second in command to Jack, should be some groomed to take over after Jack steps down, succession planning.😎
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Post by tribeofciar on Aug 15, 2024 7:57:51 GMT
With Michael Quirke having left the backroom team now and Jack staying on for one more year only, the thinking will surely be more short term rather than a strategic long term plan.
If Kerry win Sam in 2025, Jack will definitely walk away (he might do either way).
Therefore the selector might be more a low key appointment, rather than a high profile person like Donaghy or someone from the U20's backroom, someone Jack trusts won't rock the boat.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 15, 2024 8:55:46 GMT
Thats simply not enough. Not by a long shot. The reality is that we don’t have any potential replacement with inter county experience, bar Eamon Fitz. Mike was up there with guys with a required level of coaching experience at a senior/20 level, others in no order, Kieran Don. Mark Fitz Tomas O Shea Sugrue with Laois After that I am wondering any others. So for me the second in command to Jack, should be some groomed to take over after Jack steps down, succession planning.😎 We have Pat O’Shea - been there, won that.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Aug 15, 2024 10:20:38 GMT
The reality is a intercounty manager for a top team is a full time job.
That's a serious ask a young man with a family and a profession.
Like others I felt our attacking football was really off this year.
I do find the criticism of Paddy Tally unfair.
He was brought in as we were seen as soft defensively.
"You can get at Kerry"
Now that has been addressed and he can be thanked with doing that.
Unfortunately some of our star players just didn't hit form this year and no coach can be blamed for that.
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Post by ciarraimick on Aug 15, 2024 10:44:51 GMT
Thats simply not enough. Not by a long shot. The reality is that we don’t have any potential replacement with inter county experience, bar Eamon Fitz. Mike was up there with guys with a required level of coaching experience at a senior/20 level, others in no order, Kieran Don. Mark Fitz Tomas O Shea Sugrue with Laois After that I am wondering any others. So for me the second in command to Jack, should be some groomed to take over after Jack steps down, succession planning.😎 Its not rocket science.If a manager is good enough he is good enough.The only way to find out if a person is good enough is to give them a chance. Also a good coach might not make a good manager.Many ex players from many counties have said Mickey Ned O Sullivan was one of the best coaches they ever came across but was criticised in Kerry.He also laid the groundwork for our 5 in a row. Remember Jack won the All Ireland in his first stint in 2004 having got the job after managing the under 21s.Ironically his last game in charge of the under 21s Kerry were knocked out of the Munster championship by Waterford. Good pundits might not make good managers either.We wont know till they get the job.Quirke might be a great coach but Im not sure about him as manager.Unless Jack gave them very little say I was disappointed with both Quirke and Murphy. Another top coach is Pat O Shea and he has done it at club and county and from what I hear Pat is brilliant to listen to his selectos viewpoints and is open to all views. The facts are though Jack is mananager still so all this talk is for another day but I do hope we get in a strong selector who can impose their own views. My own view is Jack likes to be the Boss and still feels higher than players that played under him but looked up to players he never managed like Johnny Culloty and Ger O Keefe.It was Ger O Keefe that touted the Donaghy at full forward in 06 (while Jack got the credit). Hopefully we get a strong selector with a good football brain.
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Post by john4 on Aug 15, 2024 10:53:15 GMT
The quality of attacking coaching across all counties to me seems poor or non existent. Armagh were the only team I could see who tried a few different things in attack with the spine and the one side overload.
Every team do the same recycle and probe. There's no imagination there. A lot made of how bad the mark is for rewarding a player who catches the ball - too easy. If it's so easy why aren't we doing this.
The whole mindset at IC is defence. I can't see any thought being put into the other end
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