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Post by edgeofthesquare on Jun 3, 2024 11:19:56 GMT
I do think we want a ‘test’ in a quarter final. What we don’t want is more of these type of games against Monaghan and Meath and then going into a semi final against Dublin or Donegal coming with a plan for us. Looking at possible quarter opponents it’s hard to say with a round to play and the preliminary quarter finals but all 4 teams who come through the preliminaries are likely to be strong Derry, Mayo, Galway/Armagh, Donegal etc.
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Post by southward on Jun 3, 2024 11:35:14 GMT
No one gave Down a chance and Kerry also had Tomas O Se and Paul Galvin suspended. We were unlucky with a disallowed goal in the first half but in truth Down were far better than us on the day. Unlucky is one word for it. A pivotal moment in that game with our old buddy McQuillan shafting us yet again.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jun 3, 2024 11:42:44 GMT
If I remember correctly, part of the consideration when this group phase was introduced into the championship structure was that teams would get an opportunity to have a go at the top teams to help them close the gap in terms of standards. Taking Kerry and Dublin out of it and I'd say there's valuable enough learnings to be got from these rounds of matches for a lot of the rest. The big problem is that there isn't 16 Sam Maguire contenders. I'd have 12 at best. I'd have a format of 4 groups of 3 like the Ladies football. 1 home game 1 away. Top 2 qualify for Quarter-Finals. 4 provincial Champions, last years Tailteann Champs and next best 7 ranked league teams. Most games would have a level of jeopardy then. Probably a need for a 3rd ranked tournament for teams like Waterford Carlow etc.. They are not competing with the likes of Kildare or Down in Tailteann. I agree there should be 3 tiers of competition. That way every county has a realistic chance of winning something. For example Leitrim under Andy Moran could motivate themselves to win the C competition.
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Post by thekingdom on Jun 3, 2024 11:47:28 GMT
I can't see us winning with Paul Geaney on the starting 15. His legs are gone and his accuracy isn't what it once was. The options are limited but if last years final showed us anything it's that we need scoring forwards to carry a threat. Jack doesn't seem to like Killian but Jack is now the 3rd manager in a row who prefers him as a sub.
I don't understand why we didn't try a few long long balls to Cillian Burke. He had a mismatch in size with his marker yesterday. DC spent a lot of time around the 45 yesterday in the first half. I suppose there is more chance for him to handle the ball but he still went a long time without scoring against a very average team.
It would be great to see Graham back in defence. With himself, GW, TOS & BOB we'd have a great attacking platform. Even Jason Foley gets forward on occasion. Such is the modern game.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jun 3, 2024 11:55:18 GMT
www.terracetalk.com/kerry-football/top-scorers/ChampionshipInteresting that David Clifford is 9th in all time top championship scorers for Kerry. Sean O'Shea is 4th. By the end of this season Clifford will be 5th It will still take him 5 or 6 more seasons to catch Gooch though. By the end of this decade Sean O'Shea could be number 1 and Clifford no 2, which could stand for a very long time. In all of Ireland, SOS is 21st all time Championship scorer and Clifford 30th but they are the youngest active players, so will both be top 10 in a few seasons and could be 2nd and 3rd by the end of this decade. That's assuming no bad injuries or loss of form. Cillian O'Connor's record will never be broken I think.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jun 3, 2024 12:21:40 GMT
www.terracetalk.com/kerry-football/top-scorers/ChampionshipInteresting that David Clifford is 9th in all time top championship scorers for Kerry. Sean O'Shea is 4th. By the end of this season Clifford will be 5th It will still take him 5 or 6 more seasons to catch Gooch though. By the end of this decade Sean O'Shea could be number 1 and Clifford no 2, which could stand for a very long time. In all of Ireland, SOS is 21st all time Championship scorer and Clifford 30th but they are the youngest active players, so will both be top 10 in a few seasons. Cillian O'Connor's record will never be broken I think. Yes but players play more games nowadays compared to the likes of Sheehy and Micko etc.Also records are there to be broken and if Kerry get a new player in 10 years that takes all the frees he will probably take over Seanie s record as Seanie shares some frees with David Still it's fair going. By the end of this decade, SOS and DC should be 2nd and 3rd on all time list for whole of Ireland. It's unusual to start playing Championship at 18 so their numbers will be hard to beat. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship_records_and_statisticsThis shows points per game so shows how good the likes of Matt O'Connor and Declan Browne were.
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Post by paudief on Jun 3, 2024 12:38:35 GMT
I had a perfect view of things yesterday and in my view it was very hard to play in the Kerry ff line yesterday and even Killian would have struggled too until things opened up a little in the second half.Now for me the ff line struggling was not totally down to Meaths defending.I was disappointed that alot of the time our players were nt looking up and trying to kick the ball in quick or bigh into the ff line.Its the first time i watched closely the amount of Kerry players not looking up.Geaney at times amd David a number of times were one on one screaming for the ball but no one looked up.O Beaglaoich who had a fine game was guilty of this too.Its something I hope Jack and selectors address.Not much point having David in the ff kine if they wont use him.He had to come out alot to get ball and Geaney too.Now tbf I noticed Moynihan when he came on and was on the ball was always looking up to see if there was a quick ball into ff line on.I was one of Moynihans critics last year but Im beginning to see his true worth now.
Good observations. Yeah, that's another criticism I'd have of management, we have plan A in terms of attacking and no plan B. You'd like to see a bit more variation when things aren't going to plan.
One positive in that respect yesterday was Brosnan's play. He does have good creativity and vision, and did try to pick out Clifford and some of the other forwards with long passes.
Re: Moynihan. Yeah, I'm the same, wouldn't have been his biggest fan, but showed his value yesterday coming in for Burke.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 3, 2024 13:10:18 GMT
No one gave Down a chance and Kerry also had Tomas O Se and Paul Galvin suspended. We were unlucky with a disallowed goal in the first half but in truth Down were far better than us on the day. Unlucky is one word for it. A pivotal moment in that game with our old buddy McQuillan shafting us yet again. I sometimes wonder to what extent this kind of thinking is among the players and if it helped or hindered success. To my mind blaming the ref takes the blame off the team and takes away an incentive to improve.
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greengold35
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Post by greengold35 on Jun 3, 2024 13:28:13 GMT
Unlucky is one word for it. A pivotal moment in that game with our old buddy McQuillan shafting us yet again. I sometimes wonder to what extent this kind of thinking is among the players and if it helped or hindered success. To my mind blaming the ref takes the blame off the team and takes away an incentive to improve. That defeat to Down was purely of Jack’s making - we went with Seamus Scanlon & Mike Quirke in midfield - two big immobile men & paid the price - disallowed goal didn’t help but think bigger issue was the selection.
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kot
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Post by kot on Jun 3, 2024 13:44:05 GMT
Read Fitzmaurice's article and he summed all up very well. Kicking 2-18 away from home with 2-14 from play you should be delighted but it was one of those strange days. Scored well, won by a wide margin but lots of holes you could pick. Especially as there are few Meath's of this world who will be as obliging.
They were doing what they had to do and only played in fits and starts. We finally got our goals and from a man who needed them I would say, David hasn't been showing the genius heights we have come accustomed to and as I type this I realise he scored 2-02 which accounts for exactly a third of the scoring haul! As I said, a strange day.
The one thing I said leaving yesterday is we are quietly building up a catalogue of Plan B's if we can't get the ball to Clifford or Seanie or if they are having an off day. None more so than the 2 buachaills from West Kerry! Tom always was a threat but O'Beaglaoich is now popping up to give defences another thing to think about.
It's hard to know where we are at but would say we are probably second in the pecking order now that the other side of my double bet absolutely caved in again. (Kerry to beat the handicap & derry to win). I still worry about who we get at the other side of this group stage, are we going to be ready or up to the pitch for a quarter as we are still very much in cruise control / autopilot / sleepwalking, whatever you want to to call it.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 3, 2024 14:08:35 GMT
Kerry kicked a world of wides yesterday. Radio Kerry suggested the wind was challenging.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Jun 3, 2024 14:30:07 GMT
Tony Brosnan is playing well but are we going to get away with him at wing forward against the better teams? Could it be that Paul Geaney loses out, Tony pushes in to be named at 13 but continues playing in the areas he currently is but with Moynihan and Burke at 10 and 12.
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Post by playitfair on Jun 3, 2024 14:30:11 GMT
Kerry kicked a world of wides yesterday. Radio Kerry suggested the wind was challenging. The breeze was strong alright. It was blowing into a corner. Kicking 2-18 was pretty good scoring in the conditions.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 3, 2024 14:44:29 GMT
Tony Brosnan is playing well but are we going to get away with him at wing forward against the better teams? Could it be that Paul Geaney loses out, Tony pushes in to be named at 13 but continues playing in the areas he currently is but with Moynihan and Burke at 10 and 12. Why would we be "getting away" with a scoring wing forward who can ping a pass and does work hard (to my eye)? I think the great young man is going to have a fallow year and we need a spread of scorers.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jun 3, 2024 14:45:39 GMT
Tony Brosnan is playing well but are we going to get away with him at wing forward against the better teams? Could it be that Paul Geaney loses out, Tony pushes in to be named at 13 but continues playing in the areas he currently is but with Moynihan and Burke at 10 and 12. It's difficult to know. I like his style of play. He can beat a man also. He might be competing with Geaney for a starting place. Nice to have them plus Killian Spillane to spring from the bench.
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kot
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Post by kot on Jun 3, 2024 14:51:42 GMT
Kerry kicked a world of wides yesterday. Radio Kerry suggested the wind was challenging. The breeze was strong alright. It was blowing into a corner. Kicking 2-18 was pretty good scoring in the conditions. Deceptively strong, Meath struggled with the wind also. A lot of shots skewing off to keepers left hand post.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jun 3, 2024 15:07:14 GMT
Kerry kicked a world of wides yesterday. Radio Kerry suggested the wind was challenging. The breeze was strong alright. It was blowing into a corner. Kicking 2-18 was pretty good scoring in the conditions. Meath kicked a lot of wides as well in the first half in particular so that goal seemed hard to score into.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 3, 2024 15:14:20 GMT
In any language, in the last two matches, Kerry have kept the opposition to seriously low first half tallies.
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Post by veteran on Jun 3, 2024 17:11:04 GMT
We got there early and got a fine perch in the middle of the stand. At the outset I must say I don’t think I have ever seen the surface of a pitch in such an immaculate condition. Kudos to the County Board and the groundsmen. This was complemented by the glorious sunshine. It was also gratifying to see such a fine turnout of Kerry supporters on a holiday weekend.
It was a timid affair. The most disappointing aspect of the Meath approach was their lack of physicality. When there is a discrepancy in the abilities of the competing teams the onus is on the inferior team to set the terms of the physical engagement. This never materialized. Indeed , the most physical player on the field was Joe O’Connor who had a massive second half. The chief tactic of Meath and indeed a lot of opposing teams is to stick like glue to the Cliffords and Sean O’Shea and in that way hope to minimize the Kerry’s scoring return. That is fine as far as it goes but when it becomes apparent that scoring threats are emerging from other areas then wisdom suggests that there should be an adjustment of tactics. Allowing a wing back to kick three and a corner back to kick two suggests a significant degree of tunnel vision, Add in a return of two points from Kerry’s midfielders and you are approaching the total score that Meath recorded. When Kerry supporters are being critical of the Kerry attack yesterday they should take the foregoing into consideration.
Kerry were as good as they needed to be yesterday. Perhaps, the most pleasing aspect was there were no cards and no apparent injuries. It doesn’t bother me in the least that we are not being provided with more demanding tests . We are progressing in a low key fashion which is fine. I do expect a more demanding examination by Louth, certainly a more physical one.
The one major gripe I have is the substitution of young Cillian Burke. He wasn’t dominant but no less dominant than more exalted colleagues. When he was substituted the match was won. Why take off a neophyte and sacrifice the opportunity of him getting invaluable experience. Why not take off bigger names? We know what they are capable of. The same old story prevailed. Take off the newcomer and fall back on the tried and tested. Could it be that Jack’s innate conservatism will ultimately be our undoing.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jun 3, 2024 20:20:09 GMT
This is a complete sidebar.
One thing I noticed that after the game yesterday, Meath stewards and some fans were out in force cleaning up the rubbish while people were still leaving the stadium. There were some amount of bins and rubbish bags to drop the coffee cups. I'd love the GAA make more of an effort to ask fans to clean up after themselves. Maybe we should look at ourselves first on leaving the stadium as we found them.
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Post by southward on Jun 3, 2024 20:51:27 GMT
This is a complete sidebar. One thing I noticed that after the game yesterday, Meath stewards and some fans were out in force cleaning up the rubbish while people were still leaving the stadium. There were some amount of bins and rubbish bags to drop the coffee cups. I'd love the GAA make more of an effort to ask fans to clean up after themselves. Maybe we should look at ourselves first on leaving the stadium as we found them. Yeah, you don't see too many bins around at your average game, it would certainly help if there were. Mind you, some folks wouldn't walk two yards to one anyway. Also, call me a crank but is it really necessary to have food bought and/or consumed in the ground? Ok, water on a warm day, sure, but can folks not eat beforehand or afterwards? It's not like the game goes on all day. And one thing's for sure, I'd definitely ban those disgusting, stinking curry chips from any ground; nothing worse than being surrounding by them and the smell rammed up your nostrils for half the game. Yeah, I know, Meldrew here
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Jun 3, 2024 20:59:15 GMT
Kerry kicked a world of wides yesterday. Radio Kerry suggested the wind was challenging. It was a very tricky breeze, blowing towards the scoreboard. Both teams found it tricky to score points into it. Once we got our eye in after about 10 minutes of the second half, things began to click.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Jun 3, 2024 23:43:52 GMT
Tony Brosnan is playing well but are we going to get away with him at wing forward against the better teams? Could it be that Paul Geaney loses out, Tony pushes in to be named at 13 but continues playing in the areas he currently is but with Moynihan and Burke at 10 and 12. Why would we be "getting away" with a scoring wing forward who can ping a pass and does work hard (to my eye)? I think the great young man is going to have a fallow year and we need a spread of scorers. Yes he works hard but it’s not his natural game. He doesn’t have the physicality or athleticism of a typical wing forward, he’s a natural corner forward playing out on the wing. It’s great against teams were well on top of but in an even game it’s likely to be exposed. David has been below his usual levels this year for sure but I’d still be hopeful we’ll see him at his best when we need him. Even in previous years he often played below himself in games against lower opposition but he has never had a subdued game in an All Ireland semi or final.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 4, 2024 1:37:30 GMT
Why would we be "getting away" with a scoring wing forward who can ping a pass and does work hard (to my eye)? I think the great young man is going to have a fallow year and we need a spread of scorers. Yes he works hard but it’s not his natural game. He doesn’t have the physicality or athleticism of a typical wing forward, he’s a natural corner forward playing out on the wing. It’s great against teams were well on top of but in an even game it’s likely to be exposed. David has been below his usual levels this year for sure but I’d still be hopeful we’ll see him at his best when we need him. Even in previous years he often played below himself in games against lower opposition but he has never had a subdued game in an All Ireland semi or final. Re D Clifford - I appreciate and believe what you are saying but I think after everything this extraordinary young man has gone through a lull this season is on the cards and I think we have to be prepared and understanding of that. In any case, better not relying on one extraordinary player.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jun 4, 2024 8:30:29 GMT
I think Jack and co are on a hiding to nothing with this group and opposition. With regard to Sunday, for me , I have to look at the positives, it was two points away from home, a competitive game mid-season which still afforded us look at Dylan Casey and Mike Breen in defence, Killian Bourke, in attack, as well as an extended look at the possibility of accommodating Brosnan in the same line as Paudie regardless of similarities.
Regardless of the result, a result in all honesty that was never going to be in doubt, a clean sheet, no goal scoring chances offered up, a proper look at Mike Breen as heir to Tadgh’s throne. But Meath were piss poor, but they still had a strong centre field partnership. I have already on numerous occasions voices my concerns at the similarity of both the Tralee men, but it looked more obvious on Sunday that there was structure to their positioning and there was an audible communication with is key for me.
The real bonus for me was Brión, I have always advocated that a fully fit An Gaeltacht man is a nailed player for me, it’s alarming and looks increasingly likely that Graham is out for a bit, so in this respect the West Kerry man adds both an outlet for Ryan and an attacking option from 35/40 yards to counteract a packed or blanket defence.
One telling factor, and this was very evident, Kerry are working specifically on the offensive mark, time and time again, when Breen, O’Beagleoich and White had the ball, they checked their positioning and hesitated if close to the 45, this shows me that they have been working on the delivery, ok, maybe the runs were not being made inside yet, but the foundation for the ball in definitely has been.
Good too for Jack that he was able to run the bench, Killian, O’Brien, Dylan and Adrain will benefit from the gallop, strange to hear that Stephen played with the club but that too shows planning that everyone is getting game time and staying fresh.
Paudie and DC were relatively quiet by their standards, I know scoring 2-02 and we saying quiet, the shooting was off, but that is just sharpness, I think the way the groups have unfolded, we are in a good place, we can tailor the run in, the only downside, is our quarter final opponents will not be known until the week beforehand… but in all honestly we are in second gear, putting up big scores, Louth I expected to beat Monaghan, but they threw that game away, Monaghan should beat Meath and may grab second place, all depends on the scoring average after the final round…
But Jack, Michael and Co will be very pleased.
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Post by kerryblueboy on Jun 4, 2024 9:03:06 GMT
We won the game great no injuries great big score and very little conceded great by my god this is supposed to be championship football there was no bite no physicality nothing from Meath same as Monaghan will Louth provide a bigger test no way this group is pointless for our progression might as well be playing a vs b games
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Post by homerj on Jun 4, 2024 9:16:20 GMT
regarding out shooting, the wind was really really tricky the last day and probably several of those kicks came against a team that had 15 lads inside the 45 for most of the game.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 4, 2024 9:20:48 GMT
I think Jack and co are on a hiding to nothing with this group and opposition. With regard to Sunday, for me , I have to look at the positives, it was two points away from home, a competitive game mid-season which still afforded us look at Dylan Casey and Mike Breen in defence, Killian Bourke, in attack, as well as an extended look at the possibility of accommodating Brosnan in the same line as Paudie regardless of similarities. Regardless of the result, a result in all honesty that was never going to be in doubt, a clean sheet, no goal scoring chances offered up, a proper look at Mike Breen as heir to Tadgh’s throne. But Meath were piss poor, but they still had a strong centre field partnership. I have already on numerous occasions voices my concerns at the similarity of both the Tralee men, but it looked more obvious on Sunday that there was structure to their positioning and there was an audible communication with is key for me. The real bonus for me was Brión, I have always advocated that a fully fit An Gaeltacht man is a nailed player for me, it’s alarming and looks increasingly likely that Graham is out for a bit, so in this respect the West Kerry man adds both an outlet for Ryan and an attacking option from 35/40 yards to counteract a packed or blanket defence. One telling factor, and this was very evident, Kerry are working specifically on the offensive mark, time and time again, when Breen, O’Beagleoich and White had the ball, they checked their positioning and hesitated if close to the 45, this shows me that they have been working on the delivery, ok, maybe the runs were not being made inside yet, but the foundation for the ball in definitely has been. Good too for Jack that he was able to run the bench, Killian, O’Brien, Dylan and Adrain will benefit from the gallop, strange to hear that Stephen played with the club but that too shows planning that everyone is getting game time and staying fresh. Paudie and DC were relatively quiet by their standards, I know scoring 2-02 and we saying quiet, the shooting was off, but that is just sharpness, I think the way the groups have unfolded, we are in a good place, we can tailor the run in, the only downside, is our quarter final opponents will not be known until the week beforehand… but in all honestly we are in second gear, putting up big scores, Louth I expected to beat Monaghan, but they threw that game away, Monaghan should beat Meath and may grab second place, all depends on the scoring average after the final round… But Jack, Michael and Co will be very pleased. Very good assessment Horse.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 4, 2024 10:58:08 GMT
Was at the game on Sunday and watched a recording back last night. I thought the game was pedestrian enough in person but, it was sleep inducing stuff even at 2x the speed I played most of it at. A win is a win and all that. But, some wins are better than others and have more value. What value we gained from this game apart from kicking a few goals and getting games into Mike Breen, Cillian and Brion I don’t know. Meath were abject. And at stages in the first half being honest about it we were not much better.
Our sole tactic to beat the blanket defence is to stretch the game as wide as possible and handpass it around until gaps appear. That and for some reason that still escapes me trying to ply our full back line in the full forward line on occasion. I counted at least 4 times on Sunday when Jason Foley was inside the opposition 21 which we strung a few necklaces of handpasses together out around the 45. That’s all well and good but, there is absolutely no one minding the house in the case of a turnover or a slip or anything.
Tony Brosnan is playing well in the role the wing forward role. There is no question about his ability with ball in hand but, sterner tests lie ahead when faced with a back that likes to run the other way. On the half forward line the balance seemed completely off the last day with both Paudie and Cillian being rather ineffectual. Then again there was not an awful lot for them to day as Meath dropped back to their own 45 and let the Kerry defenders walk the ball up the field at their ease so there was little point them making darting runs out for the ball. Their defender wasn’t going to follow them and all they would be ding is tiring themselves out and still have the face into the phalanx of bodies that is the blanket. When the ball did make its way up the field 29 players were concertinaed inside the Meath 45 and everything was congested and laborious. Midfield seem to be getting their spacing and positioning more in sync with each passing game. Not a lot to be gleamed from the game in fairness.
I know the GAA will point to something being on nearly every game in the last round of the group stages whether teams are fighting to stay in the championship, a home preliminary quarter final or the 2 week break that comes with topping the group. Derry have lost 3 times in 3 championship games and still have at least a 50/50 chance of making a preliminary quarter final.
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Post by thehermit on Jun 4, 2024 12:07:07 GMT
Yep the prevailing mood among our group as we left the terraces on Sunday afternoon was that this had been a poor performance, despite the 15 point margin of victory. Little pace or intensity to our play but then again on a day when being in second gear is more than enough, perhaps we can't complain too much if that is all Kerry do.
This is the second year of this new format and at this stage I've given up trying to decipher what the tea leaves that are dropped say for our AI prospects. The truth is we won't know till a Q-final at the earliest where Kerry really are at. Will they be undercooked or primed for battle - you can make arguments for either case. Kerry have never been as ruthless as this current Dublin side, I'd always say Kerry are more human than the robotism of our rival too. We tend to do just what needs to be done versus going out to hit specific targets regardless of the opposition.
Anyway I would expect Louth to give us our biggest test of this group, having let a win against Monaghan slip through their fingers they have something to fight for. We'll see what two weeks time brings.
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