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Post by An Ciarraíoch Taistealaíoch on Jun 2, 2024 18:52:37 GMT
I just hope the qtr final draw is kind, we get a test but not overly tested, as we need a step change in intensity leading to semi final. Anyone else share my concerns. Hi Mike, I agree with most of your post however, I disagree on your thoughts on our ¼ final opponents. I would like to get a test in the quarter finals, something to spur on the panel in training and to blow the dirty petrol out! I was just looking through potential opponents there and I see Cork are qualified for the next round with 2 wins (so far)! Armagh, Galway, Dublin, Mayo and Louth are the other teams that have qualified so far (our good selves included). A Derry/Westmeath draw in the next round would put Derry out on scoring difference. I know it's highly unlikely (and belongs in another thread to this) but not many would have expected this a few weeks ago..
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Jun 2, 2024 19:09:08 GMT
No surprise in this group, we were expected to canter thru to the qtr final and that we will, there in lies our problem. Into a qtr final with no test, playing at pedestrian pace, very concerning imo, yes defence solid, no more than you expect with the opposition in front of us, but our forward line is fits and starts, no fluidity in their approach play. The boys are doing what there expected game day, I just hope the qtr final draw is kind, we get a test but not overly tested, as we need a step change in intensity leading to semi final. Anyone else share my concerns. It has been the same for Dublin for nearly fifteen years. But Dublin had a brilliant team, and a super second string, I don’t see our AvB games anywhere near the Dublin team with regard intensity in these games. Our journey of being untested continues.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 845
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Post by mike70 on Jun 2, 2024 19:13:31 GMT
I just hope the qtr final draw is kind, we get a test but not overly tested, as we need a step change in intensity leading to semi final. Anyone else share my concerns. Hi Mike, I agree with most of your post however, I disagree on your thoughts on our ¼ final opponents. I would like to get a test in the quarter finals, something to spur on the panel in training and to blow the dirty petrol out! I was just looking through potential opponents there and I see Cork are qualified for the next round with 2 wins (so far)! Armagh, Galway, Dublin, Mayo and Louth are the other teams that have qualified so far (our good selves included). A Derry/Westmeath draw in the next round would put Derry out on scoring difference. I know it's highly unlikely (and belongs in another thread to this) but not many would have expected this a few weeks ago.. I believe the way it works is the top team from each group is direct into quarters, the remaining 8 play off for final 4 places in the qtr , my concern is one of these 4 could bring a level of intensity that could have us under pressure, any of the 4 will be competitive for sure.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 2, 2024 19:34:26 GMT
Does anyone see parallels with how Dublin approached last year ?
Kerry just doing enough.
Playing average and winning by 15 away from home.
Keep the faith
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Post by The16thMan on Jun 2, 2024 19:40:47 GMT
So lads the performance was nothing to shout home about, but when you can win an away game by 15 points whilst still playing in 3rd gear. There's not much right to complain either.
Kerry don't need to be at their best yet, we don't need to peak prior to Croker. We are finally hitting goals again which will give most Kerry fans a sigh of relief. Hard to judge Meath as we knew it was going to be comfortable for Kerry.
Positives from today I thought were the performances of Brian O Beaglaoich (especially 1st half) & Joe O'Connor (especially 2nd half). I would have actually given Joe my MOTM. I thought he was immense and brings a sort of intensity in the tackle and on the ball Jack Barry didn't. Brian was very good at support runs for cutting open Meath's blanket in the 1st half also and he was clinical with his shooting at the posts.
The reason I see them as positives is because we didn't have this last year. Obviously both fellas had injury issues but I also feel both players bring something different to what the fellas they stepped in for had last season and that can only be a benefit to Kerry.
Negatives... Shooting was wayward, even though I felt it was easier to shoot against the breeze for points as it seemed the wind was more blowing into the Navan O'Mahony / Covered Stand corner of the ground rather than directly from 1 post to the other. Which was why alot of kicks into that goal went wide on the right post. But it still doesn't excuse fully some poor shooting and some poor decisions to shoot at times. 2nd negative would be Cillian Burke. I like Cillian and think he is a great prospect but today the game really passed him by. There was a definite up in the intensity when he was replaced by Dara Moynihan. Maybe just a game that didn't suit him.
All in all, happy enough. If Louths setup vs Dublin is anything to go by, then we are in for something similar to today in 2 weeks time playing against 15 behind the ball but if Kerry can continue to hit tallys like 2-18 vs this type of defensive football teams we should be alright
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Post by southward on Jun 2, 2024 19:42:05 GMT
Where is Ruairi Murphy these days? A bright prospect 2 years ago, is he even on the panel at this stage?
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jun 2, 2024 19:44:15 GMT
Hi Mike, I agree with most of your post however, I disagree on your thoughts on our ¼ final opponents. I would like to get a test in the quarter finals, something to spur on the panel in training and to blow the dirty petrol out! I was just looking through potential opponents there and I see Cork are qualified for the next round with 2 wins (so far)! Armagh, Galway, Dublin, Mayo and Louth are the other teams that have qualified so far (our good selves included). A Derry/Westmeath draw in the next round would put Derry out on scoring difference. I know it's highly unlikely (and belongs in another thread to this) but not many would have expected this a few weeks ago.. I believe the way it works is the top team from each group is direct into quarters, the remaining 8 play off for final 4 places in the qtr , my concern is one of these 4 could bring a level of intensity that could have us under pressure, any of the 4 will be competitive for sure. It's a lot tougher for the preliminary winners in the quarter final. The group winners get a two week rest while the preliminary winners would be playing three weeks in a row. Depending on that draw, it could be a draining qualifier.
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tpo
Senior Member
Posts: 524
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Post by tpo on Jun 2, 2024 19:48:26 GMT
Ruairi had a procedure on his hamstrings early in the year, he's on the panel and back training but not sire how far off match fitness he is. Hope he recovers fully soon
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Post by thechosenone on Jun 2, 2024 19:50:21 GMT
Think I saw in the Kerryman last week that he came on in a county league game for Listry.
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Post by southward on Jun 2, 2024 19:52:37 GMT
2nd negative would be Cillian Burke. I like Cillian and think he is a great prospect but today the game really passed him by. There was a definite up in the intensity when he was replaced by Dara Moynihan. Maybe just a game that didn't suit him. Agree. I would have expected that, as an unestablished player yet to nail down a starting berth, he would have seized his opportunity and torn into the game today. Never really got going though and faded badly as the game went on.
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Post by jackiel on Jun 2, 2024 21:11:33 GMT
A lovely day for football and a short trip to Navan. Got in early and had a great spot on the half way line in the stand. As a kid I scampered up and down the steps while Dad did his thing as a selector for the club. Today I have serious question marks over the safety of that stand, the height of the steps in particular. The pitch was pristine as always. A good crowd travelled from Kerry. Joe O Connor was my MOTM, yes we miss David Moran as referenced earlier but I'd say we're also missing Jack Barry. Hung around afterwards and saw so many Meath kids (lots from my own club) queuing to get photos and autographs from the Kerry players. Onwards to Portlaoise TBC.
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Post by kerrysouth on Jun 2, 2024 21:18:50 GMT
Jack will be pleased with the win today.A win without getting out of third gear but with plenty to work on.Louth should provide a slightly stiffer test which should have us in good shape for what the quarter final draw brings ..
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Post by An Ciarraíoch Taistealaíoch on Jun 2, 2024 21:53:00 GMT
Hi Mike, I agree with most of your post however, I disagree on your thoughts on our ¼ final opponents. I would like to get a test in the quarter finals, something to spur on the panel in training and to blow the dirty petrol out! I was just looking through potential opponents there and I see Cork are qualified for the next round with 2 wins (so far)! Armagh, Galway, Dublin, Mayo and Louth are the other teams that have qualified so far (our good selves included). A Derry/Westmeath draw in the next round would put Derry out on scoring difference. I know it's highly unlikely (and belongs in another thread to this) but not many would have expected this a few weeks ago.. I believe the way it works is the top team from each group is direct into quarters, the remaining 8 play off for final 4 places in the qtr , my concern is one of these 4 could bring a level of intensity that could have us under pressure, any of the 4 will be competitive for sure. Correct. Whoever tops the group (in 2 weekends time) goes straight to the ¼ finals (and gets a weekend off, handy if you've lads carrying a knock/niggle). The 2nd placed teams are at home to the 3rd placed teams in 3 weekends time in a "preliminary ¼ final". I only half read your initial comment "tested but not overly tested" and kinda disagreed with you. I know what you mean though. If we're not ready for a level of intensity at that stage though we don't deserve to go any further. That said, I still get annoyed thinking about the Down game in 2010 when we were completely underbaked.
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Post by homerj on Jun 2, 2024 22:13:48 GMT
This "test" stuff is pure fabric, the key is to get to Croke Park fresh, injury free and ready for battle.
Derry, Donegal right now are wishing they'd gotten the handier draws I am sure.
We've already seen the excuses these teams are tired etc, so we can't have it every way!
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Post by orangerhyme on Jun 2, 2024 22:26:09 GMT
This "test" stuff is pure fabric, the key is to get to Croke Park fresh, injury free and ready for battle. Derry, Donegal right now are wishing they'd gotten the handier draws I am sure. We've already seen the excuses these teams are tired etc, so we can't have it every way! People have been arguing both sides since the backdoor came in. I honestly don't know which is better but intuitively I think it's better to be battle hardened. You push yourself harder in a game than you would ever in training, so I think you reach a higher level of fitness and sharpness from competitive games. I remember in 2014 after the Mayo game, James O'Donoghue said it was worth a month of hard training.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 2, 2024 23:04:09 GMT
This "test" stuff is pure fabric, the key is to get to Croke Park fresh, injury free and ready for battle. Derry, Donegal right now are wishing they'd gotten the handier draws I am sure. We've already seen the excuses these teams are tired etc, so we can't have it every way! Spot on.
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Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 450
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Post by Hicser on Jun 2, 2024 23:10:58 GMT
Hard to make head nor tail of where Kerry are at. Some fine point taking at times and you can’t argue with such a good score line.
My experience of Kerry teams is that they never truly destroy a team. In all honesty we could have won by 25 points today.
I expect we will beat Louth by 8-9 points with maybe scoring 1 goal if any, questions will still remain open.
The biggest risk for Kerry is that they will have not been challenged until Semi-Final,
The real story today is how bad Meath are under Colm. He was an awfully condescending pundit. He has done nothing for Meath football and I expect he’ll be gone fairly soon. Hopefully RTE will go back to him,
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Post by chicago09 on Jun 2, 2024 23:17:34 GMT
Not much to learn about today really only as I keep saying our midfield getting more game time together is good I thought we should have put pressure on the kick out in the first half to see how the midfield and backs cope with the long ball. Two weeks should be a bigger test don’t know will jack keep with Breen and Casey but more than likely Moynihan will be starting instead of Burke even though I would give him another chance. What ye think of Breen hard to judge him on this game ? Although I would like to see Dylan Geaney starting but him and brosnan and even Paudie are very similar. Anyway too much lateral passing need to get ball in faster.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,735
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Post by fitz on Jun 3, 2024 0:18:50 GMT
I thought Meath were decent first half except they had no forwards. Their direct running definitely caused us some problems and if they had greater belief our goal might have come under more direct threat, their finishing was woeful. I also thought the first half pace was a fair fitness test. It’s only when their gas tank started flagging in second half that our forwards got some space. Bad wides from Killian. Delighted with the strength of Joe’s performance
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Post by edgeofthesquare on Jun 3, 2024 0:26:53 GMT
Why wasn’t Stephen O’Brien in the 26 today? Played for Kenmare Saturday night in the county league so it wasn’t because of injury.
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,193
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Post by kerryexile on Jun 3, 2024 0:50:22 GMT
I think they played well. The teamwork was good and there didn't seem to be any weakness. It appeared that there was an awkward wind which made it difficult to shoot. Playing games in slow motion won't do them any harm. Football wise it helps them build up team work. They did send out the message that if you put 15 men in defence then our backs can come forward and take their points.
Joe is progressing step by step, game after game. If you're a betting person, MOTM in the final. Cillian has shown in club football that he can do it but is slightly inhibited at county level. He needs to go for everything and let Jack tell him where to stop.
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Post by homerj on Jun 3, 2024 0:50:37 GMT
This "test" stuff is pure fabric, the key is to get to Croke Park fresh, injury free and ready for battle. Derry, Donegal right now are wishing they'd gotten the handier draws I am sure. We've already seen the excuses these teams are tired etc, so we can't have it every way! People have been arguing both sides since the backdoor came in. I honestly don't know which is better but intuitively I think it's better to be battle hardened. You push yourself harder in a game than you would ever in training, so I think you reach a higher level of fitness and sharpness from competitive games. I remember in 2014 after the Mayo game, James O'Donoghue said it was worth a month of hard training. 10 years ago you could win a championship playing 5 games in 4 months. Now you have to play minimum 8 games,in 10-11 weeks. It's a huge difference. The landscape of gaa has changed more in the last 2 years than it has in decades and getting to the critical stages intact and fresh is what matters. If we lose a 1/4 or a semi, it will be because we weren't good enough, not because some team didn't batter the *e out of us 2 weeks before and ran us to a couple of points.
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Post by orangerhyme on Jun 3, 2024 2:57:56 GMT
People have been arguing both sides since the backdoor came in. I honestly don't know which is better but intuitively I think it's better to be battle hardened. You push yourself harder in a game than you would ever in training, so I think you reach a higher level of fitness and sharpness from competitive games. I remember in 2014 after the Mayo game, James O'Donoghue said it was worth a month of hard training. 10 years ago you could win a championship playing 5 games in 4 months. Now you have to play minimum 8 games,in 10-11 weeks. It's a huge difference. The landscape of gaa has changed more in the last 2 years than it has in decades and getting to the critical stages intact and fresh is what matters. If we lose a 1/4 or a semi, it will be because we weren't good enough, not because some team didn't batter the *e out of us 2 weeks before and ran us to a couple of points. You're just as likely to be injured in training. I remember in the recent past Kerry going two months without a game which surely can't be good. For me it's ambiguous. You can argue both ways. I remember in the 00's when Tyrone beat us, people were saying they were battle hardened from Ulster and coming through the backdoor. I'd like to know what players and coaches think. The game is so tactical now, maybe it's better to not reveal your tactical masterplan until the latter stages. I still think training's a level below games. I know they intend for them to have same intensity but it's impossible really.
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Post by paudief on Jun 3, 2024 8:31:29 GMT
I'd play him ahead of Paul Geaney. Yeah, he had one point and two wides I think, but with his pace and movement, he gets on the ball more than Geaney.
Geaney in 55 mins had one point and one wide. Just doesn't do enough for me to deserve a starting place.
You could say in 18 mins of play, Killian had 3 chances, whereas Geaney had 2 in 55 mins of play. Killian has proven himself to be accurate in the past.
The game was crying out for him yesterday, the forwards were generally very poor (admittedly difficult with Meath getting 15 players inside the 45). I find Jack's conservatism a bit frustrating at times. I'd have made changes in the forwards at half-time. He waits until 55 mins when it's hard for players to make an impression, and the game has lost a bit of shape.
We should be using these games to find out a bit as well as anything else. Forwards struggling in the first half, let's make one or two changes to see how other players do in the same situation.
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Post by paudief on Jun 3, 2024 8:49:36 GMT
Regarding the need for a test, yeah, I'm kind of of the opinion that it's overrated. Teams are getting good tests in Division 1 of the league these days to know where they are. At the same time, my feeling is with this Kerry team, that they're a team that beats the decent and weaker teams, but may not beat the best teams. Their record in this year and last has kind of proven that, without beating very many good teams in the last two years. Let's have a look: - League 2023: Not one really good performance...won 3 games, lost 4 (in a division without Dublin)
- All-Ireland 2023: Lost to Mayo in group-stages, beat Derry in the semi-final, lost to Dublin in the final.
- League 2024: I'd say lost to the only two good teams they played, Derry and Dublin. (Mayo were very bad on the day they played them, Galway were injury-ravaged)
So in the last two years, what have you got to hang your hat on, in terms of beating good teams? Beating Derry in a semi-final, that's about it. At the same time there seems to be a bit of complancency in management. Yeah, they've made one or two changes, Joe O'Connor was kind of enforced. Cillian Burke, although it looks like he will return to the bench after his latest performance against Meath. It seems like we'll be more or less rolling out the same team as last year. It wasn't good enough last year, but let's hope it's good enough this year! (in fairness, a fit Brosnan and O'Beaglaoich will help) So that may be the benefit of a 'test', to give a jolt to management, that rolling out the same team as last year isn't good enough. We may only find that out in a knockout situation, and it will be too late.
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Post by john4 on Jun 3, 2024 8:58:18 GMT
If I remember correctly, part of the consideration when this group phase was introduced into the championship structure was that teams would get an opportunity to have a go at the top teams to help them close the gap in terms of standards.
Taking Kerry and Dublin out of it and I'd say there's valuable enough learnings to be got from these rounds of matches for a lot of the rest.
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Post by The16thMan on Jun 3, 2024 9:11:55 GMT
If I remember correctly, part of the consideration when this group phase was introduced into the championship structure was that teams would get an opportunity to have a go at the top teams to help them close the gap in terms of standards. Taking Kerry and Dublin out of it and I'd say there's valuable enough learnings to be got from these rounds of matches for a lot of the rest. The big problem is that there isn't 16 Sam Maguire contenders. I'd have 12 at best. I'd have a format of 4 groups of 3 like the Ladies football. 1 home game 1 away. Top 2 qualify for Quarter-Finals. 4 provincial Champions, last years Tailteann Champs and next best 7 ranked league teams. Most games would have a level of jeopardy then. Probably a need for a 3rd ranked tournament for teams like Waterford Carlow etc.. They are not competing with the likes of Kildare or Down in Tailteann.
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Post by john4 on Jun 3, 2024 9:22:34 GMT
If I remember correctly, part of the consideration when this group phase was introduced into the championship structure was that teams would get an opportunity to have a go at the top teams to help them close the gap in terms of standards. Taking Kerry and Dublin out of it and I'd say there's valuable enough learnings to be got from these rounds of matches for a lot of the rest. The big problem is that there isn't 16 Sam Maguire contenders. I'd have 12 at best. I'd have a format of 4 groups of 3 like the Ladies football. 1 home game 1 away. Top 2 qualify for Quarter-Finals. 4 provincial Champions, last years Tailteann Champs and next best 7 ranked league teams. Most games would have a level of jeopardy then. Probably a need for a 3rd ranked tournament for teams like Waterford Carlow etc.. They are not competing with the likes of Kildare or Down in Tailteann. Absolutely, That would be a better format from a competitive point of view. If it's cutthroat football were looking for, then just copy the hurling format, 2 groups of 5, 4 highly competitive matches each. Winners in semifinal, next 2 in QF, and 2 gone 8 Div 1 teams plus the top 2 in Division 2. But, this gets away from why this current group phase was introduced which was designed as a development competition Yes also I think there's a need for a third tier to the football. Is there 4 in hurling?
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jun 3, 2024 10:03:08 GMT
Maybe this is too simplistic but there should be a 3 tier competition.
You wouldn't have these intercounty structures in the club game yet you have them in the intercounty.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 3, 2024 10:26:45 GMT
People were crowing on about a "Champions League" format for years.
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