The Race for Sam 2024

[onlykerry]

With the league more or less complete in terms of figuring the rankings we can begin to look at who will be competing for Sam and who will be in the Tailteann Cup this year.

The Provincial draws means that only one division 3 or 4 team is guaranteed a spot in the Sam Maguire - whoever makes the Munster Final from the Clare/Tipp/Waterford side of the draw (and they will be seeded 1 or 2 depending on the result of the Munster Final). Leinster may throw in a second as they have so few teams in Division 1 or 2 - Kildare need to make the Leinster Final if they want to compete for Sam but are on the same side of the draw as higher ranked sides Louth and Westmeath.

Meath as Tailteann winners in 2023 will have a place in the main championship and would probably make it as 13th ranked side from the league in any case.

Westmeath (ranked 16) will need to make the Leinster Final if they are to stay out of the Tailteann Cup. Down (ranked 15) and Louth (ranked 14) will also be watching the provincial championships with interest to see which competition they will be in.

[thehermit]

So is it Munster v Connacht, Leinster v Ulster this year as regards the semi-final format?

Looking at provincial draws, hard to see anything but a Mayo win in the West given how poor Roscommon have been and fact Galway's injury crisis is of the long term nature and doubtful to be ameliorated in next month.

Leinster = foregone conclusion.

Munster = be interesting to see what Cork turn up in Killarney in a month, but you'd still put a house on the Kingdom.

Ulster = Derry looking the form team but hard to know how close Donegal and Armagh are having spent a spring in D2. Looking at the draw it could be all set up for an ambush by Jimmy on 20 April, but if Derry survive that (and they have home advantage) they should make a final and probably come up against Armagh in that decider.

So for a group stage we could have Armagh/Louth/Galway as the runner up and seed two. If a shock or two happens we might a Derry/Donegal or Roscommon to go along with them as seed three.

They do try and avoid repeat pairings don't they at that stage? So could be possible to have a group of Kerry, Armagh, Donegal and A.O.

[Ballydonoghoor]

Only a Kerryman could have introduced this thread as s/he did so full marks there!

Dgal hoors keep sayin they haz no chance of coming out of the Bogside alive though that 'twill only be 20 days after fools day has me suspicious! I think Jim is an even smarter laddo this time around and while he has the makings of a vintage pipeline of a sort, in fairness it is a massive ask. If and when Derry legs tire is of course under every watchful eye though me thinks that the Christmas tree that is Glass won't be taken down before turkey season and IMO he himself will have done a fair bit of plucking by then, the plucky bucko that he is.

As for ourhermit, just because auld Vet pulls a cúpla focail from the Mensa maniacs newtownmountkennedy encyclopedia of rather large words doesn't mean you have to do the same, nor should the rest of us apart from ye cúpla foclers have to carry said publication around in our arse pockets to decipher what you otherwise good enough eggs are rabbitin on about. In other words, far from 'ameliorated' you were born - can I suggest you ameliorate your linguistic ways - ah jazus ye have be infected now, and that Vet virus prediction that had him expelled from this school of small words and *foot extra curricular expression of all things of the big bad world that exist outside our great while line!

On that note, can I propose we change our mantra motto as follows - Keep it clean, keep it fair, keep it accurate, keep it honest, and keep the words small!  Ciarraí Abú!

Ah mocking is sticking re all things and now creatures great and not so small - I was just presented with 2 buttery slices of barmbrack, all substance and unlike a lot of what we get and don't these days, being the big inquisitive Capricorn head on tender shoulders that I am, didn't I track down the loaf, and low and behold, there plastered on it were the words 'Nelligan of Castleisland'!  What's that the labour ward record says of our wee Charlie, that he was the biggest baby ever born in Kerry, and beyond?, weighing in at 1 stone, 1lb and 5oz, in the year of '55, well we assume the labour only took a year!  And bigger, and better he got - happy Easter Charlie, thank you for the music, and the barmbrack!  BTW2 I'd challenge the record, biggest isn't heaviest and which the brack sure is, and before ye start, nil aon baint agam, well apart from the scars to prove it all!  The Kerry Ingredients for sure - would be nice after we devour the main course on a date in July!

[thehermit]

I guess people from Kilflynn just have a naturally larger vocabulary than our neighbours out there in Ballydonoghue 

[Ballydonoghoor]

Mar 25, 2024 16:54:54 GMT thehermit said:

I guess people from Kilflynn just have a naturally larger vocabulary than our neighbours out there in Ballydonoghue 

Do you know what hermit, I never met wan of ye that didn't and I thank the good Lord for small misfortunes - you are good crack!

Seriously and I trust Vet won't be offended, but I was just today telling another stranger I hadn't previously met of Vets match reports, but I have to warn of the Newtownmountkennedy factor!  The sad thing is that it is generally those who are absent of talent who use big words, and hopefully now the two exceptions to prove the rule will ameliorate their ways and the world will be perfect!


'Ameliorate' would be a nice name for a child, now that's making a meal out of it - Bally Ameliorate Hermit, BAH!

Regards

BTW is it a coincidence that our two best analysts, maybe the best in the GAA, suffer from mild occasional Newtownmountkennedyitis, or is it Ameliorateitis?  Like Jack never won an AI without the league and aforemention of exceptions and rules, maybe the piseogs will conspire to make this year the exception to prove the rule!

[colinsworth1]

Pace youth athleticism
Remember last years final we ran out of gas with about 15 min to we were about to be totally overrun and
Suddenly we introduced two fresh subs at the same time
This kept us in the game longer and was a life safer ( can anyone name those two subs ) my point being that
We need youth pace and fitness and if not starting then to bring in . The Dubs are a fitness machine story goes that you have to pass a speed test to get on the team Gavan used to insist on that
40 yards in such a time etc
We have a good few players who are talented footballer s but can’t run like the Dubs can

We have been all looking for the early ball in which is totally understandable
But the Dubs have moved beyond that now where they can vary that by putting the ball thru the hands at great pace and set up close in goal chances this way , the always being innovative

[kerrysouth]

Agree totally with the above posters but how can there be pace in the team when the players on the team don’t have pace in the first place .This is happening at all ages in Kerry where managers are obsessed with aping the northern teams and their obsession with turnovers so they pick mainly big cumbersome players but lacking pace who when they play pacy teams like Dublin they are badly exposed ala first half in the national league .Gavin White is the only genuine pacy player on the Kerry team and look how destructive his runs can sometimes be to opposition teams The new look Dublin team has at least 6 or 7 of this type of player that opposing teams can’t cope with

[royalkerryfan]

Mar 28, 2024 3:24:45 GMT kerrysouth said:

Agree totally with the above posters but how can there be pace in the team when the players on the team don’t have pace in the first place .This is happening at all ages in Kerry where managers are obsessed with aping the northern teams and their obsession with turnovers so they pick mainly big cumbersome players but lacking pace who when they play pacy teams like Dublin they are badly exposed ala first half in the national league .Gavin White is the only genuine pacy player on the Kerry team and look how destructive his runs can sometimes be to opposition teams The new look Dublin team has at least 6 or 7 of this type of player that opposing teams can’t cope with

I would disagree re Gavin White being the only pacey player.

Jason Foley
Tom Sullivan
Joe O Connor
Dara Moynihan
David Clifford
Brian O Beaghlaoich

All are quick.

[kerrysouth]

Yes agree Jason Foley should be on the list was a sprints hurdler champion but not so sure about the others you mentioned as we are talking about the kind of pace that hurts opposing teams and Dublin have it in abundance

[veteran]

Mar 28, 2024 8:48:33 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Mar 28, 2024 3:24:45 GMT kerrysouth said:

Agree totally with the above posters but how can there be pace in the team when the players on the team don’t have pace in the first place .This is happening at all ages in Kerry where managers are obsessed with aping the northern teams and their obsession with turnovers so they pick mainly big cumbersome players but lacking pace who when they play pacy teams like Dublin they are badly exposed ala first half in the national league .Gavin White is the only genuine pacy player on the Kerry team and look how destructive his runs can sometimes be to opposition teams The new look Dublin team has at least 6 or 7 of this type of player that opposing teams can’t cope with

I would disagree re Gavin White being the only pacey player.

Jason Foley
Tom Sullivan
Joe O Connor
Dara Moynihan
David Clifford
Brian O Beaghlaoich

All are quick.

DC has a lot of desirable traits but I wouldn’t describe him as pacey.

[edgeofthesquare]

Mar 28, 2024 8:48:33 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Mar 28, 2024 3:24:45 GMT kerrysouth said:

Agree totally with the above posters but how can there be pace in the team when the players on the team don’t have pace in the first place .This is happening at all ages in Kerry where managers are obsessed with aping the northern teams and their obsession with turnovers so they pick mainly big cumbersome players but lacking pace who when they play pacy teams like Dublin they are badly exposed ala first half in the national league .Gavin White is the only genuine pacy player on the Kerry team and look how destructive his runs can sometimes be to opposition teams The new look Dublin team has at least 6 or 7 of this type of player that opposing teams can’t cope with

I would disagree re Gavin White being the only pacey player.

Jason Foley
Tom Sullivan
Joe O Connor
Dara Moynihan
David Clifford
Brian O Beaghlaoich

All are quick.

Moynihan lacks pace, I actually think it’s one of his weaknesses. Joe O’Connor I wouldn’t be describing as pacey either although I can see where you’re coming from he is a strong runner. Cillian Burke is someone I would put in the pacey category.

Dublin’s slowest starting player is still faster than 4/5 our starters which is a big advantage, no one on the Dublin team is really lacking pace that I can think of.

[Premier]

Mar 28, 2024 9:11:50 GMT veteran said:

Mar 28, 2024 8:48:33 GMT royalkerryfan said:

I would disagree re Gavin White being the only pacey player.

Jason Foley
Tom Sullivan
Joe O Connor
Dara Moynihan
David Clifford
Brian O Beaghlaoich

All are quick.

DC has a lot of desirable traits but I wouldn’t describe him as pacey.

Skint Paddy Durcan against Mayo for that goal in Croke Park in 2022 so I think he can turn it on when he wants

[tpo]

Without the ball DC appears slow, in possession he comes to life

[royalkerryfan]

DC roasted Paddy Durcan in the 2022 quarter final and he was also injured at that point.

You have to be quick to get out in front as often as he does.

If I was making comparisons with Dublin it wouldn't be on speed or skill it would be on our mental side of the game.

Dublin can play it anyway you like,

They adapt with what's infront of them.

[Attacking Wing Back]

Dublin do appear a step above all rivals so far this year. Apart from their slow start to the league once they have got up to speed they have dispatched all comers with relative ease. They seem to be playing the game at a different pace to everyone else. Enough of the garland throwing to our Jackeen brethren.

I think the winner of the AI will come from one of the teams that finished in the top 3 of Division 1 or Armagh. Dublins credentials are well stated at this stage and they are the current champions after all.

Derry are continuing their upward trajectory and appear to have bedded in a few new players over the course of the league. They possess a formidable midfield partnership along with a steady and stout defence. Lynch in goal might be one the more ostentatious 'sweeper keepers' out there and I think his exuberance to join in outfield might cause issues down the line.

I say this every year but, I think Armagh could be dark horses. They have performed very well in the league but, have been operating in Division 2 so maybe they will flatter to deceive once again come championship.

As for ourselves all expectations are tempered after our schooling in Croke Park. While we undoubtedly had some good games and good periods within games, Croke Park and our lethargy against Derry, periods against Galway as well as against Mayo all linger long in the mind. Despite some encouraging performances towards the latter end of the league I am still unsure about midfield or the configuration of it. Joe and Barry Dan have done well but, I’m unsure if Barry Dan can carry the form when the ground gets hard in the Summer.

Diarmuid I think still needs to impose himself on games more if playing in the middle. Once Jason returns from injury we will most likely pick our defence from the usual suspects with O’Brien and Casey getting time in needed.
I think Burke on the wing has been our find of the league.

However, the job in the forwards is getting the mix right between defensive work and scoring. I like the idea of playing Seanie inside with David but, it just hasn’t really delivered what we were expecting. There are multiple reasons for this, I think the chief one is our slow attack meaning the any chance of isolating Seanie and DC inside is negated by the time we get the ball up the pitch. Secondly, Anytime we seem to have a fallow period out around the middle third Seanie is brought out to buttress our options there. While I am on Seanie his free taking percentage conversion rate seems to have fallen off a cliff during this league.

[crokes86]

Very hard to see past Dublin again this year. Fenton and Kilkenny are playing better than ever .
Mannion Basquel Costello O’Callaghan Small Scully Bugler O’Dell Kilkenny . I just think they have too much scoring power up front .

[Annascaultilidie]

I feel it will take something special for Kerry to win this year. Good luck lads.

[colinsworth1]

Mar 28, 2024 9:09:48 GMT kerrysouth said:

Yes agree Jason Foley should be on the list was a sprints hurdler champion but not so sure about the others you mentioned as we are talking about the kind of pace that hurts opposing teams and Dublin have it in abundance

Point well taken
Pace of Dubs combined with fitness
Is a big challenge outside of how tactical
They are
But in a word pace is something we need to work on
“ no foot no horse “

[mainevalley]

How do ye see Dublin game sunday. Dublin by 7 points is my prediction

[taggert]

No doubting Dublin's intent in 2024 thus far, handing out a lesson to Kerry, scoring heavily and playing with hunger and zest.

I think the game with Derry will be intriguing for a number of reasons. First and foremost for me is the fact that Harte did not show Derry's hand at all against Dublin in the league game a number of weeks ago - rested some, benched others and definitely had a feel of holding things back for another day. Secondly, Derry badly want to win a national title as its over 15 years since they did so (2008 league) and over 30 since the All Irl (1993). Thirdly, Derry went into the D2 league final last year in rude defensive health only to be hit with 4 goals by Dublin. While it was 11 scores to 10 in favour of Derry, Dublin's 4-6 to 11 win could have included 2 or 3 more goals. Finally, if Dublin swat aside one of the leading teams from the chasing pack tomorrow, they will be red hot favourites to cruise to All Ireland # 32. A big win will suggest they ARE as fantastic as they have looked - I'm not certain that is the case.

For the above reasons, I think it will be closer than expected. Dublin by 3.

[royalkerryfan]

Dublin and Derry meet in the AI semi final if all goes to plan.

Dublin to win tomorrow and lay down another marker.

Interesting question will be does Dessie bring, Fitz,McCarthy,McCaffery,Cluxton straight back in for the championship.

I wonder at what point the GAA start looking at this in the interest of the integrity of the game.

[thehermit]

Mar 30, 2024 8:00:36 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Dublin and Derry meet in the AI semi final if all goes to plan.

Dublin to win tomorrow and lay down another marker.

Interesting question will be does Dessie bring, Fitz,McCarthy,McCaffery,Cluxton straight back in for the championship.

I wonder at what point the GAA start looking at this in the interest of the integrity of the game.

Yerra split Dublin into the amount they win by tomorrow 🤣

All joking aside this is inevitable at some stage, well it would be if Croke Park cared about the actual integrity of the inter county game. But from what I know they've just tried to argue Dublin were a once in a generation side that will fall back to the pack. Yet now when it's looking inevitable that their set to dominate for a second decade in a row I wonder how long HQ will continue to ignore the reality of what they've done to our sport?

[royalkerryfan]

To be fair I felt they were a once in a generation team.

I argued on here that I saw no replacements for the stars once they left the stage.

But I was wrong.

They are in a D1 final with a lot of new faces tomorrow.

They had effectively 2 down years and those down years consisted of them being a kick of a ball away from winning.

Dublin are effectively a province at this stage.

They have the infrastructure and numbers equivalent to Leinster rugby.

The fact that Croke Park was given to them as a defecto home ground meant they could turn their attention to matters on the field solely.

Two development centres of excellence are pending planning.

Hollystown golf club about 5k from my club in Meath.

&

The spawell on the southside.

A centre of excellence on both sides of the liffey.

If anyone thinks that any county will compete with this they are wrong.

The league game might have been brushed off by some on here but what it signified to me was an experimental Dublin team gave a near full Kerry team a hiding.

If your warning lights aren't on I'm not sure what your looking at.

[veteran]

If one parachuted down from another planet over the past few weeks you would be forgiven for concluding that Dublin had already won the 2024 title . To state the obvious , they haven’t and they may not. As I have previously written , I like very much the way this is shaping up. Unassailable favourites? That is an entity that rarely exists in sport. If you are looking for an alternative you need not travel too far. When the dust settles remember you heard it from me first!

[royalkerryfan]

Mar 30, 2024 10:14:51 GMT veteran said:

If one parachuted down from another planet over the past few weeks you would be forgiven for concluding that Dublin had already won the 2024 title . To state the obvious , they haven’t and they may not. As I have previously written , I like very much the way this is shaping up. Unassailable favourites? That is an entity that rarely exists in sport. If you are looking for an alternative you need not travel too far. When the dust settles remember you heard it from me first!

Kerry might indeed win Sam vet but that doesn't change the discussion on Dublin and what's happening in the game.

I personally don't see anyone beating them as much as it kills me to say that.

Anyone who has read my posts over the last 6 years will know I've never said that.

[edgeofthesquare]

Let’s not get carried away with the Dublin are going to dominate forever thing. Their best players are still Kilkenny and Fenton and O’Callaghan when he’s on song, it’s not like they have a superstar minor coming in every year. They’re flying for this time of the year but there won’t be much between Dublin, Kerry and Derry come the business end of championship.

[royalkerryfan]

Mar 30, 2024 12:27:37 GMT edgeofthesquare said:

Let’s not get carried away with the Dublin are going to dominate forever thing. Their best players are still Kilkenny and Fenton and O’Callaghan when he’s on song, it’s not like they have a superstar minor coming in every year. They’re flying for this time of the year but there won’t be much between Dublin, Kerry and Derry come the business end of championship.

The same argument was made when Connolly/Flynn/Brogan were playing.

The same argument must be 15 years old at this stage.

Dublin rolled out new players this year and wipe the floor I the league.

They are a province in all senses of the word.

To deny that it's just head in the sand stuff.

[thehermit]

Fluke it we'll give it a lash anyway, as an aside best of luck to Leitrim later they don't often get to Croker!!

[edgeofthesquare]

Mar 30, 2024 13:23:09 GMT royalkerryfan said:

Mar 30, 2024 12:27:37 GMT edgeofthesquare said:

Let’s not get carried away with the Dublin are going to dominate forever thing. Their best players are still Kilkenny and Fenton and O’Callaghan when he’s on song, it’s not like they have a superstar minor coming in every year. They’re flying for this time of the year but there won’t be much between Dublin, Kerry and Derry come the business end of championship.

The same argument was made when Connolly/Flynn/Brogan were playing.

The same argument must be 15 years old at this stage.

Dublin rolled out new players this year and wipe the floor I the league.

They are a province in all senses of the word.

To deny that it's just head in the sand stuff.

Well that’s just blatantly not true sure Dublin were winning no All Irelands 15 years ago?

We might as well pack up football in the county if we can’t compete with “new” players like Ross McGarry, Peadar O’Cofaigh Byrne, Cian Murphy, Sean McMahon etc. all are very average.

I hate losing to Dublin but I hate this attitude that we can’t compete with them as well. We should have beaten them last year that’s on us. They’ve had a brilliant league but league doesn’t matter if they don’t win Sam.

[royalkerryfan]

Mar 30, 2024 14:24:33 GMT edgeofthesquare said:

Mar 30, 2024 13:23:09 GMT royalkerryfan said:

The same argument was made when Connolly/Flynn/Brogan were playing.

The same argument must be 15 years old at this stage.

Dublin rolled out new players this year and wipe the floor I the league.

They are a province in all senses of the word.

To deny that it's just head in the sand stuff.

Well that’s just blatantly not true sure Dublin were winning no All Irelands 15 years ago?

We might as well pack up football in the county if we can’t compete with “new” players like Ross McGarry, Peadar O’Cofaigh Byrne, Cian Murphy, Sean McMahon etc. all are very average.

I hate losing to Dublin but I hate this attitude that we can’t compete with them as well. We should have beaten them last year that’s on us. They’ve had a brilliant league but league doesn’t matter if they don’t win Sam.

OK let's say 10 years ago then.

Point remains,

If you think what's happening now is fair then what can I say.

And we didn't compete with them in February that's for sure.