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Post by thekingdom on Aug 27, 2023 15:46:37 GMT
He was great at countering cluxtons kick outs. His in game management was suspect but you could argue the same regarding any other recent Kerry manager. You'd wonder would the likes of Jack be modest enough to pick the brain of EF currently.
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 27, 2023 15:51:12 GMT
He was great at countering cluxtons kick outs. His in game management was suspect but you could argue the same regarding any other recent Kerry manager. You'd wonder would the likes of Jack be modest enough to pick the brain of EF currently. They've worked together before so it's not too unrealistic. I think Eamon seems the type that would have the emotional intelligence to contribute as a coach. Jack is notoriously thin skinned and highly strung but maybe he's matured. |
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 27, 2023 18:59:12 GMT
He was great at countering cluxtons kick outs. His in game management was suspect but you could argue the same regarding any other recent Kerry manager. You'd wonder would the likes of Jack be modest enough to pick the brain of EF currently. They've worked together before so it's not too unrealistic. I think Eamon seems the type that would have the emotional intelligence to contribute as a coach. Jack is notoriously thin skinned and highly strung but maybe he's matured. Jack said in his book that he'd get Bata agus bóthar if he played like Tyrone during the 00's. He obviously changed on that. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 27, 2023 19:42:00 GMT
They've worked together before so it's not too unrealistic. I think Eamon seems the type that would have the emotional intelligence to contribute as a coach. Jack is notoriously thin skinned and highly strung but maybe he's matured. Jack said in his book that he'd get Bata agus bóthar if he played like Tyrone during the 00's. He obviously changed on that. People were criticising Donegal back in 2012 for playing so defensively, now Kerry and Dublin do it. |
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 27, 2023 20:24:47 GMT
It was more 2011 that they were very bad to watch.
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Post by southward on Aug 27, 2023 20:51:37 GMT
Jack said in his book that he'd get Bata agus bóthar if he played like Tyrone during the 00's. He obviously changed on that. People were criticising Donegal back in 2012 for playing so defensively, now Kerry and Dublin do it. They might, of necessity, be more defensively-oriented than we would like but Kerry do not play anything like Jim McGuinness' Donegal. Nobody would ever go to ASP or Killarney if we did. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 27, 2023 20:57:40 GMT
People were criticising Donegal back in 2012 for playing so defensively, now Kerry and Dublin do it. They might, of necessity, be more defensively-oriented than we would like but Kerry do not play anything like Jim McGuinness' Donegal. Nobody would ever go to ASP or Killarney if we did. There's very little difference. Often Kerry have 14 men behind the ball in their own half. Donegal were doing that back then. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 28, 2023 5:18:42 GMT
"If a man gets the name of an early riser he can stay in bed all day". Donegal are often castigated as the hardest team to watch under Jimmy McGuinness but in reality they were nt that bad. The 2011 semi final was the first time they played boring stuff and the name stuck from there on. In fact in 2012 they played some great football and in 2014 scored 3 great goals against Dublin and Cluxton. No team has done it since. Indeed Dublin and Kerry did indeed copy Donegal s style and play very defensive. In fact many people from Ulster constantly ask how come Dublin and Kerry are nt blamed now for defensive football. People forget that in 2014 final Donegal outscored Kerry 12 scores to 11.(2-9 to 12 pts). Following year scoring was worse between Dublin and Kerry 12pts to 9 pts. 2 all Irelands in a row Kerry only scored 9 pts and the attacking Dubs only score 12pts. As many neutrals pointed out this year's final was one of the most defensive seen. Kerry had 14 in our own half for large parts of the game and Dublin even worse having 15 behind the ball for large parts of the game. McGuinness might have started the major blanket and duvet but he evolved while Kerry and Dublin took it to a new level even with the basketball keepball with it too. I worked with people from every county in Ireland and socialise a good bit too and the general consensus with many neutrals (altho funny enough the like Dub Kerry finals) is both Kerry and Dublin are a hard watch and the only reason some would watch Kerry is beause of David Clifford and they d have no interest in Dublin at all. In Moneyball the Boston Red Sox owner said to Billy "The first guy through the wall always gets bloody." Jim McGuiness was that guy. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 28, 2023 7:01:55 GMT
In Moneyball the Boston Red Sox owner said to Billy "The first guy through the wall always gets bloody." Jim McGuiness was that guy. So true! This time I think McGuinness will have a different approach and hopefully the game improves again as a spectacle. An attacking game would suit Kerry I would think. Kerry play more open and expansive against weaker teams, but in tight games, there's very little difference between us and Donegal 2012. He's done soccer coaching badges so that might give him a different perspective. My dream for GAA is to have 6/7/8 teams all genuinely capable of beating each other. We're not far off that. Galway and Mayo will be better next year I think. Cork are improving also. Then you've Tyrone, Derry, Monaghan. Roscommon are good also. Someone from Leinster would be good also. Maybe Meath or Kildare. |
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 28, 2023 8:59:50 GMT
Kerry play more open and expansive against weaker teams, but in tight games, there's very little difference between us and Donegal 2012. He's done soccer coaching badges so that might give him a different perspective. My dream for GAA is to have 6/7/8 teams all genuinely capable of beating each other. We're not far off that. Galway and Mayo will be better next year I think. Cork are improving also. Then you've Tyrone, Derry, Monaghan. Roscommon are good also. Someone from Leinster would be good also. Maybe Meath or Kildare. I'd agree to a degree. I'd like 7 or 8 teams to be on a par capable of beating each other with Kerry a little bit ahead 😁 I'm just happy we're competitive and capable of winning AIs. From 2015 to 2018, we definitely weren't. Likewise in the early to mid 90s. I don't need us to win every year but I really want to players to win a few AIs as they're making all the sacrifice. I'm hoping David Clifford ends up with at least 4 AIs. I think that's possible. Hopefully he has 10 more years injury free. |
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 28, 2023 14:02:14 GMT
"If a man gets the name of an early riser he can stay in bed all day". Donegal are often castigated as the hardest team to watch under Jimmy McGuinness but in reality they were nt that bad. The 2011 semi final was the first time they played boring stuff and the name stuck from there on. In fact in 2012 they played some great football and in 2014 scored 3 great goals against Dublin and Cluxton. No team has done it since. Indeed Dublin and Kerry did indeed copy Donegal s style and play very defensive. In fact many people from Ulster constantly ask how come Dublin and Kerry are nt blamed now for defensive football. People forget that in 2014 final Donegal outscored Kerry 12 scores to 11.(2-9 to 12 pts). Following year scoring was worse between Dublin and Kerry 12pts to 9 pts. 2 all Irelands in a row Kerry only scored 9 pts and the attacking Dubs only score 12pts. As many neutrals pointed out this year's final was one of the most defensive seen. Kerry had 14 in our own half for large parts of the game and Dublin even worse having 15 behind the ball for large parts of the game. McGuinness might have started the major blanket and duvet but he evolved while Kerry and Dublin took it to a new level even with the basketball keepball with it too. I worked with people from every county in Ireland and socialise a good bit too and the general consensus with many neutrals (altho funny enough the like Dub Kerry finals) is both Kerry and Dublin are a hard watch and the only reason some would watch Kerry is because of David Clifford and they d have no interest in Dublin at all. A key difference between Donegal compared to Kerry and Dublin over the years is Donegal have consistently kickpassed a lot less compared to other two, expecially out of defence. 99% of the time when Dublin and Kerry had large numbers back defending and were looking to break forward the first instinct would be to look for the kickpass to get the ball up the field. By comparison Donegal seldom if ever use the kickpass to transition out of defence. It was always run-and-handpass up the field. This made it so much easier for teams playing them to get numbers back to defend against the Donegal attack which meant that the game became focused all about defence at both ends. I don't see Donegal as anything more than a long-shot for Sam under McGuinness. |
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Post by royalkerryfan on Aug 28, 2023 14:54:41 GMT
The problem I had with McGuinness style of football was it was fine with super footballers like Lacey, McHugh or Murphy.
It's that amount of club managers that copied that and it was brutal stuff.
It infected the whole of the GAA and that's been the biggest impact of Jim's legacy.
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Post by southward on Aug 28, 2023 17:07:53 GMT
Have to say I'm aghast at the Jim McGuinness fan club we seem to have here.
Now, I'm quite prepared to accept that Jim is a lovely fella. And that he's great craic and so on. Intelligent too, no issue with that.
But don't be telling me McGuinness has been good for football. His last tenure was a disaster for the game. We got a type of anti-football whose primary aim was to prevent teams, including his own, from actually playing the game. Football being supplanted by a sort of bastardised rugby league. It was ugly and depressing and, worst of all, effective enough to spread like a blight. All made possible of course by HQ's stubborn refusal to curtail the handpass - it couldn't work otherwise.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Aug 28, 2023 20:35:39 GMT
Have to say I'm aghast at the Jim McGuinness fan club we seem to have here. Now, I'm quite prepared to accept that Jim is a lovely fella. And that he's great craic and so on. Intelligent too, no issue with that. But don't be telling me McGuinness has been good for football. His last tenure was a disaster for the game. We got a type of anti-football whose primary aim was to prevent teams, including his own, from actually playing the game. Football being supplanted by a sort of bastardised rugby league. It was ugly and depressing and, worst of all, effective enough to spread like a blight. All made possible of course by HQ's stubborn refusal to curtail the handpass - it couldn't work otherwise. Read his autobiography... I'd bet you'll have a different perspective and respect for the man post closing |
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Post by southward on Aug 28, 2023 20:50:27 GMT
Have to say I'm aghast at the Jim McGuinness fan club we seem to have here. Now, I'm quite prepared to accept that Jim is a lovely fella. And that he's great craic and so on. Intelligent too, no issue with that. But don't be telling me McGuinness has been good for football. His last tenure was a disaster for the game. We got a type of anti-football whose primary aim was to prevent teams, including his own, from actually playing the game. Football being supplanted by a sort of bastardised rugby league. It was ugly and depressing and, worst of all, effective enough to spread like a blight. All made possible of course by HQ's stubborn refusal to curtail the handpass - it couldn't work otherwise. Read his autobiography... I'd bet you'll have a different perspective and respect for the man post closing You could be right Horse but like I said, I've nothing against him personally as it is. His brand of football though has been poison and bankrupt and its legacy has threatened to make the game almost unwatchable at times. And while he was far from being the first exponent of negative tactics, for me he brought the thing to a new level of sterility. I just can't welcome a return of that approach. |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Aug 28, 2023 21:28:33 GMT
Ah ya, I see your point and to be fair, he took the defensive approach to a whole new level.
One still has to admire the vision fir change, like cluxton, we may not like it but they changed the projectory of football as we know it.
I'm just wondering will he have a completely different approach again to football and flip us in another direction.
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Post by glengael on Sept 4, 2023 11:18:38 GMT
A clear succession plan might be good also, at all levels of county management, not just the senior team. Not a closed list of names but some element of thought going into what we are looking for in a manager and who might be fitting that bill (regardless of what county/college/club they may be currently working with). As we have said on here, Minor and Under 20 are very different to what they were as u18 and 21 competitions, has the criteria for the manager changed?
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 4, 2023 23:16:58 GMT
Have to say I'm aghast at the Jim McGuinness fan club we seem to have here. Now, I'm quite prepared to accept that Jim is a lovely fella. And that he's great craic and so on. Intelligent too, no issue with that. But don't be telling me McGuinness has been good for football. His last tenure was a disaster for the game. We got a type of anti-football whose primary aim was to prevent teams, including his own, from actually playing the game. Football being supplanted by a sort of bastardised rugby league. It was ugly and depressing and, worst of all, effective enough to spread like a blight. All made possible of course by HQ's stubborn refusal to curtail the handpass - it couldn't work otherwise. Read his autobiography... I'd bet you'll have a different perspective and respect for the man post closing I totally agree with Southward. What has his autobiography got to do with it? The proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in what it says in the chef's autobiography. |
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Post by homerj on Sept 5, 2023 8:53:17 GMT
can somebody list off the clubs that are in big trouble underage, population wise? i assume the furthest north and south 4 or 5 clubs all are anyway and back west the same.
i didnt check the cencus data but how are we birth numbers wise overall in the county?
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 5, 2023 20:24:43 GMT
Dud I just read that Jack has been ratified for two more years?
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 5, 2023 20:45:43 GMT
You did, ratified tonight at the County Board meeting for another two years. I would have imagined a longer term considering the rebuild the job is going to be..I believe its now a 3/4 year job.
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Post by orangerhyme on Sept 5, 2023 20:48:39 GMT
You did, ratified tonight at the County Board meeting for another two years. I would have imagined a longer term considering the rebuild the job is going to be..I believe its now a 3/4 year job. The team doesn't need a rebuild. Most of the team is set in stone and picks itself really. Good age profile also so won't change much for 6 years. We definitely need a few young players though. |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 5, 2023 20:54:41 GMT
Patrick O'Sullivan is quoted as saying the backroom team will be ratified in due course, I take it both Michéal and Diarmuid will remain in situ and the only departure will be Tally as his work sabbatical has ceased.
It will be interesting to see who Jack brings on board as coach, or will Michéal double up, he is very astute and learned on tactics, his basketball background would also be of benefit.
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Post by listowelemerrs on Sept 5, 2023 21:03:25 GMT
You did, ratified tonight at the County Board meeting for another two years. I would have imagined a longer term considering the rebuild the job is going to be..I believe it’s now a 3/4 year job. The team doesn't need a rebuild. Most of the team is set in stone and picks itself really. Good age profile also so won't change much for 6 years. We definitely need a few young players though. Sad thing is there is nothing of worth coming through. Rob monahan was the one but no outstanding player to come in and start wing or corner forward or midfield. We might pick up another Dylan casey or a mike breen or just a decent inter county player but we need a superstar to compliment the Clifford’s. Worrying that we nearly have to rely on geaney and obrien again next season. |
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 5, 2023 21:07:47 GMT
You did, ratified tonight at the County Board meeting for another two years. I would have imagined a longer term considering the rebuild the job is going to be..I believe its now a 3/4 year job. The team doesn't need a rebuild. Most of the team is set in stone and picks itself really. Good age profile also so won't change much for 6 years. We definitely need a few young players though. I would say eight of that team now picks itself. Factor in imminent retirements and players that aren't upto the level I would argue we need to find 8 maybe 9 players in the next three years, and that's just for the first 15. |
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 5, 2023 21:09:15 GMT
The team doesn't need a rebuild. Most of the team is set in stone and picks itself really. Good age profile also so won't change much for 6 years. We definitely need a few young players though. Sad thing is there is nothing of worth coming through. Rob monahan was the one but no outstanding player to come in and start wing or corner forward or midfield. We might pick up another Dylan casey or a mike breen or just a decent inter county player but we need a superstar to compliment the Clifford’s. Worrying that we nearly have to rely on geaney and obrien again next season. Agreed |
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Sept 5, 2023 21:23:53 GMT
The team doesn't need a rebuild. Most of the team is set in stone and picks itself really. Good age profile also so won't change much for 6 years. We definitely need a few young players though. I would say eight of that team now picks itself. Factor in imminent retirements and players that aren't upto the level I would argue we need to find 8 maybe 9 players in the next three years, and that's just for the first 15. I would say 10 pick themselves - Ryan, O’Sullivan x2, Foley, Morley, White, O’Connor, O’Shea and the 2 Cliffords. |
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 5, 2023 21:41:55 GMT
I would say eight of that team now picks itself. Factor in imminent retirements and players that aren't upto the level I would argue we need to find 8 maybe 9 players in the next three years, and that's just for the first 15. I would say 10 pick themselves - Ryan, O’Sullivan x2, Foley, Morley, White, O’Connor, O’Shea and the 2 Cliffords. I'm with you on Morley but looking at his age profile I'd be looking for a successor. |
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Post by taggert on Sept 5, 2023 21:53:51 GMT
Hopefully Jack and his lieutenants can devise a gameplan that is a little more elaborate and sophisticated than David Clifford shooting the lights out at semi and final stages, should we get there. All a bit simplistic and ever so predictable.
Unearthing consistent scoring forwards who can cut the mustard at the business end of the season would be a dream but more realistically, tailoring the forward play to spread the load by working chances for the best shooters.
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Post by listowelemerrs on Sept 7, 2023 15:49:13 GMT
Hopefully Jack and his lieutenants can devise a gameplan that is a little more elaborate and sophisticated than David Clifford shooting the lights out at semi and final stages, should we get there. All a bit simplistic and ever so predictable. Unearthing consistent scoring forwards who can cut the mustard at the business end of the season would be a dream but more realistically, tailoring the forward play to spread the load by working chances for the best shooters. Have watched emmet o shea a lot for fossa over last few years and he was obviously involved with the minors and maybe u20s? He’s an absolute scoring machine. He’s not the classiest in terms of winning ball, dummies and turning and all that but he just racks up massive scores ( 1-7 ) against Desmond’s recently and always kicks 0-5 plus for fossa in every game they play.. I think he’s as good as Donal down or Roche … very unique type of inside forward.. I’d liken him to an eoghan o gara of Dublin. |
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