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Post by patshamrock on Aug 20, 2023 20:48:56 GMT
Yes, very much wishful thinking. Even if they lost every game it's still a 22 game schedule to the end of August at least. Say if Mark did come back even right now, is it wishful thinking to believe he would make it as a senior inter county footballer? He hasnt really set the world on fire in his fleeting appearances with Dingle I say he would cos we need midfield options. But if he did come back I would have him in training but release back to Dingle for as many games as possible to begin with. |
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 20, 2023 21:00:10 GMT
Say if Mark did come back even right now, is it wishful thinking to believe he would make it as a senior inter county footballer? He hasnt really set the world on fire in his fleeting appearances with Dingle I say he would cos we need midfield options. But if he did come back I would have him in training but release back to Dingle for as many games as possible to begin with. I think lessons were learned from Tommy Walsh's reintegration. It took Tadhg Kennelly a long time to get back in to the swing of things too. His kicking was really bad earlier on in the season Tadhg was a sub until the SF of '09 and actually replaced Tommy Walsh early in the game in the 2009 QF v Dublin. Maybe the way the game has gone with so much hand passing it would be easier. |
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 20, 2023 22:11:43 GMT
This is not a doomsday thread but I'd like to have a reasonable discussion regarding the future of Kerry football. We have been at the top table for over 100 years but I have concerns over a few matters 1. The demise of South Kerry. Rural depopulation is a significant issue in this area. Teams amalgamating underage and the numbers in Colaiste na Sceilge dwindling doesn't bode well for an area that has always provided great footballers if not some of our greatest. It doesn't look like the WFH change post covid has led to many families relocating to here. 2. The demise of north Kerry. Similar to above with SK we are having issues with playing numbers. Every Kerry team needs a few tough bucks from NK. This area is not as isolated as SK and you could easily commute to Tralee or Limerick. The proposed bypass of Adare will hopefully help this. This year's squad only had Jason Foley who is a bit different from the typical NK back. 3. The demise of West Kerry. Same again. I saw recently that Dingle minors had to amalgamate with Lispole and Annascaul and this is coming just 10 years after Dingle won out the county for the minors. There are ebbs and flows with certain clubs but it does appear that certain areas are prospering due to growth in population eg Milltown and other parts of Mid Kerry. I don't recall Kenmare producing too many great players back in the day but recently they have a very good squad and produce decent underage players. It's not all about population as can be seen in Kildare and Meath where both have underachieved in recent years despite the many advantages they have. SK are in a bad way, clubs having to join up to field at underage including St Marys the town club, the SK under 15 and under 17 divisional teams were not competitive this year West Kerry not hectic either as you say The North Kerry Rangers team at underage has given NK a bit of a lift Different towns and regions will be strong in different times so perhaps one can get too focused on who is strong and weak at one time but there are alarm bells |
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 20, 2023 22:15:15 GMT
Say if Mark did come back even right now, is it wishful thinking to believe he would make it as a senior inter county footballer? He hasnt really set the world on fire in his fleeting appearances with Dingle I say he would cos we need midfield options. But if he did come back I would have him in training but release back to Dingle for as many games as possible to begin with. Is he really a better midfielder at this stage or can he be than his club mate Barry Dan or the two Ryans from Rathmore? Or Joe O'Connor when he is back from injury I have my doubts Tadhg seemed to be playing more club for Listowel the far end of the year in the Nk Championship which helped in when he came back with Kerry. Mark's appearances with Dingle arent as frequent |
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Aug 21, 2023 0:00:57 GMT
Would people please move on from the Mark O'Connor thing. He is now 26 and gone about 6 years. It is so monotonous - it is like a bad country song where someone met someone in their teens, it didn't work out and they are now spending their life pining for that person. It's over move on. The very best of luck to Mark in all his endeavours. Meanwhile we have work to do in Kerry.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Aug 21, 2023 2:45:05 GMT
Agreed
The county is full of good midfielders if only we’d have the motivation to seek them out
Liam Kearney Spa - Ny. Coming into his prime playing well and better than what we currently have
Could say same about Mushy O Brien although Kearney is an all around footballer could play 10 or 12 too
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Post by hurlingman on Aug 21, 2023 6:54:35 GMT
This is not a doomsday thread but I'd like to have a reasonable discussion regarding the future of Kerry football. We have been at the top table for over 100 years but I have concerns over a few matters 1. The demise of South Kerry. Rural depopulation is a significant issue in this area. Teams amalgamating underage and the numbers in Colaiste na Sceilge dwindling doesn't bode well for an area that has always provided great footballers if not some of our greatest. It doesn't look like the WFH change post covid has led to many families relocating to here. 2. The demise of north Kerry. Similar to above with SK we are having issues with playing numbers. Every Kerry team needs a few tough bucks from NK. This area is not as isolated as SK and you could easily commute to Tralee or Limerick. The proposed bypass of Adare will hopefully help this. This year's squad only had Jason Foley who is a bit different from the typical NK back. 3. The demise of West Kerry. Same again. I saw recently that Dingle minors had to amalgamate with Lispole and Annascaul and this is coming just 10 years after Dingle won out the county for the minors. There are ebbs and flows with certain clubs but it does appear that certain areas are prospering due to growth in population eg Milltown and other parts of Mid Kerry. I don't recall Kenmare producing too many great players back in the day but recently they have a very good squad and produce decent underage players. It's not all about population as can be seen in Kildare and Meath where both have underachieved in recent years despite the many advantages they have. SK are in a bad way, clubs having to join up to field at underage including St Marys the town club, the SK under 15 and under 17 divisional teams were not competitive this year West Kerry not hectic either as you say The North Kerry Rangers team at underage has given NK a bit of a lift Different towns and regions will be strong in different times so perhaps one can get too focused on who is strong and weak at one time but there are alarm bells It's nothing new for teams in SK to be joined at underage level. Even during the 2000s a lot of them were or were playing 13 a side and that included St. Mary's. West Kerry are doing fine imo it just seems to be an issue because Dingle are struggling. Annascsul, Lispole and Castle have all had lads on minor and U20 teams in the last few years. It just remains to be seen how they get on going forward. |
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Post by jerryewe on Aug 21, 2023 18:06:24 GMT
It's about making the most of our resources. We've a small population with lots of emigration still. Lots of people leave Kerry for college or work and never come back. So we can't afford to have black spots in the county producing no talent. I wonder if the Ukraine refugees are playing football. That's good forward thinking. There is no better way for a young lad to make friends than join a team. We should be getting free playing gear to these kids. On this, are the GAA doing enough to get the children of immigrants involved in the GAA? Just browsing through some programmes for the Co. Minor championship and you don’t see many non Anglo-Irish surnames? I realise this is a complicated issue in many ways but I think the GAA as a whole (and not just Kerry) needs to look at this. As a further example I looked at the programmes for the the Dublin Co. Championship and in probably the most diverse county in Ireland, there was about 3 surnames that could be described as not native Irish names. I know this is extremely non scientific but are there reasons for this and what can be done to attract more people who have moved to Ireland to get their children involved. |
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Post by dc84 on Aug 21, 2023 18:18:49 GMT
Living in dublin and having trained a few underage teams in a few clubs there are not that many immigrants playing gaa up here really.
Compare that to the soccer where every team I've seen has a few young lads at least who fit the profile. From talking to lads involved in the local soccer club who are also involved in the gaa they say that it's not necessarily that the soccer lads are any better at outreach etc it's just that the young players and their parents already understand what soccer is and have probably played it themselves aswell.basketball seems to be doing well out of it aswell as a lot of east and southern Europeans are big into it.
Kids will usually play whatever is the dominant sport that their classmates and Friends are playing and usually that means soccer in the newer estate's in dublin a lot of the big successful gaa clubs are in older more established and therefore more expensive areas where country people moved into in the past from my experience a lot of the big gaa family's up here are 2nd or 3rd generation dubs whose parents or grandparents moved here and brought their love of gaelic games with them.
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Post by orangerhyme on Aug 21, 2023 19:48:44 GMT
Living in dublin and having trained a few underage teams in a few clubs there are not that many immigrants playing gaa up here really. Compare that to the soccer where every team I've seen has a few young lads at least who fit the profile. From talking to lads involved in the local soccer club who are also involved in the gaa they say that it's not necessarily that the soccer lads are any better at outreach etc it's just that the young players and their parents already understand what soccer is and have probably played it themselves aswell.basketball seems to be doing well out of it aswell as a lot of east and southern Europeans are big into it. Kids will usually play whatever is the dominant sport that their classmates and Friends are playing and usually that means soccer in the newer estate's in dublin a lot of the big successful gaa clubs are in older more established and therefore more expensive areas where country people moved into in the past from my experience a lot of the big gaa family's up here are 2nd or 3rd generation dubs whose parents or grandparents moved here and brought their love of gaelic games with them. This is my impression also. We have green and gold tinted glasses in that we assume everyone is interested in GAA. But there's lots of people in Ireland who have no interest whatsoever. Dublin can afford to lose talent though so I'm hoping at least we're trying to attract kids of immigrants towards GAA. From my experience kids in Kerry will play everything available to them but kids in cities are choosier. |
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Post by glengael on Aug 22, 2023 9:11:12 GMT
Interesting points dc84. Speaking with friends who are teachers in Kerry primary schools, and who are trying to promote participation in sport, they seem to be having that experience too. Soccer appeals more to children from migrant and refugee communities, it's a sport they're already familiar with and it has a worldwide profile. Similarly and to a lesser degree with rugby, especially if there is a good local club.
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 22, 2023 10:58:57 GMT
Interesting points dc84. Speaking with friends who are teachers in Kerry primary schools, and who are trying to promote participation in sport, they seem to be having that experience too. Soccer appeals more to children from migrant and refugee communities, it's a sport they're already familiar with and it has a worldwide profile. Similarly and to a lesser degree with rugby, especially if there is a good local club. It would be a challenge but I think it would be worth it for many reasons. It would require significant funding such as having GDO's promoting it among the non national community. A player like Okunbor assisting would be helpful. Give free boots, training gear etc. If they go off playing soccer then what harm once a few stay with GAA. Kieran Donaghy's camps do football and basketball and anyone who has played both games would agree that each game improves the other. There are plenty of Kerry footballers where the only impressive part of their academics c.v. was their football talents and the doors that were opened because of it. It should not require American military style recruitment where the prospectee is filled full of BS! |
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Post by hurlingman on Aug 22, 2023 20:07:47 GMT
I saw statistics that showed during the championship Dublin got 3-19 from their bench while we got a mere 7 points. Going forward it's something that should be addressed. In the final we brought on Killian a proven scorer but that was it. We were negative in tight ganes. Hopefully more positivity next year. This is something Kerry have lacked for a while now. In the past you had the like of BJK, Darren O Sullivan etc who would come on in a game and would guarantee you a few scores. But bar Killian we really don't have any other option like that. |
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Post by Lolly Valance on Aug 22, 2023 22:49:05 GMT
I don't know about Dara Roche yet to be honest. He scored 0-3 against a woeful Donegal team on day 1 of the league and 1-2 against a monaghan team that were hammered in Killarney. Against Armagh, Tyrone and Mayo combined he scored 3 points.
We have a real paucity of options from midfield up to be honest. I firmly believer it takes about 2 year to recover properly from an ACL so don't expect Joe O'Connor be be firing on all cylinders come the new year.
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 23, 2023 5:16:33 GMT
It was a real blow that Joe did his ACL as he would have got a full league campaign this year. I don't think Jack has much faith in Barry Dan. He should have given him a run v Tyrone. Jack Barry was very close to a second yellow at the beginning of the 2nd half when the margin was only a few points. He could have sprung him later on when the game was over as a contest too.
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Post by hurlingman on Aug 23, 2023 8:59:20 GMT
It was a real blow that Joe did his ACL as he would have got a full league campaign this year. I don't think Jack has much faith in Barry Dan. He should have given him a run v Tyrone. Jack Barry was very close to a second yellow at the beginning of the 2nd half when the margin was only a few points. He could have sprung him later on when the game was over as a contest too. I don't buy this argument of management "not having faith" in players. Why bring them into the panel in that case? Or name them on match day panels if you're not going to play them. |
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 23, 2023 9:16:08 GMT
It was a real blow that Joe did his ACL as he would have got a full league campaign this year. I don't think Jack has much faith in Barry Dan. He should have given him a run v Tyrone. Jack Barry was very close to a second yellow at the beginning of the 2nd half when the margin was only a few points. He could have sprung him later on when the game was over as a contest too. I don't buy this argument of management "not having faith" in players. Why bring them into the panel in that case? Or name them on match day panels if you're not going to play them. Barry Dan got a lot of playing time in the league and ample time to prove himself. I can't recall when he played in the championship. Jack Barry was on a yellow card v Tyrone and very early in the second half he clothes lined a Tyrone player. I was sure he was getting a second yellow. It would have been a perfect chance for Barry Dan to come on then. When we got in to a double figures lead he could have got a run too. I'd like to see him do well as he's a good player for Dingle and deserves his shot but at his age now entering his late 20's it might be too late. To me that's a manager who doesn't have much faith. We were down 2 of our 3 leading midfielders from last year which was a big factor in us not winning Sam. |
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Aug 23, 2023 12:18:43 GMT
It invariably, will take a lad two years to adjust to intercounty ball, once they initially adjust to the riggers on the body training and conditioning wise.
Players, will actually, go backwards initially before building back up and surpassing their entrance capability levels, in this regard, one might see more or an improvement in the likes of Donal Down and Dara Roche next year.
On Barry Dan, I have always been a huge fan of, however, he is what I would class as "an above average club player", I don't think he is inter county standard, and this would appear to be the consensus of Jack and Co. He got 15 minutes in dead rubbers late on against Clare and Louth, but come serious ball, he was not considered.
I don't think Jack see's the Dingle lad as a genuine midfield contender... in this regard we are again reverting to similar posts of 12 and 24 months ago... need to unearth wing and midfielders in the County Championship
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 23, 2023 12:32:14 GMT
Hopefully Ruairi Murphy can push on. He has a bit of size anyway and surely he has learned a lot this year.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Aug 23, 2023 13:26:06 GMT
We will see in the county championship.
One player I held out seruous hope for, and one Peter Keane gave game time to was Kilcummins Paul O'Shea - any one seem kulcummin lately that could comment
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Post by hurlingman on Aug 23, 2023 14:05:04 GMT
I don't know about Dara Roche yet to be honest. He scored 0-3 against a woeful Donegal team on day 1 of the league and 1-2 against a monaghan team that were hammered in Killarney. Against Armagh, Tyrone and Mayo combined he scored 3 points. We have a real paucity of options from midfield up to be honest. I firmly believer it takes about 2 year to recover properly from an ACL so don't expect Joe O'Connor be be firing on all cylinders come the new year. Tbf Roche went off v Tyrone with a bad hand injury. I'm not saying I'm right but he was a scoring threat. More so than some of our forwards. Something I like about him is he's willing to take a shot on, something a lot of modern day forwards are afraid to do. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 23, 2023 15:53:05 GMT
We will see in the county championship. One player I held out seruous hope for, and one Peter Keane gave game time to was Kilcummins Paul O'Shea - any one seem kulcummin lately that could comment Paul has a lot of talent but I just don’t think he’ll make it at intercounty level |
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 23, 2023 16:45:18 GMT
We will see in the county championship. One player I held out seruous hope for, and one Peter Keane gave game time to was Kilcummins Paul O'Shea - any one seem kulcummin lately that could comment Paul has a lot of talent but I just don’t think he’ll make it at intercounty level He tore his ankle ligaments last weekend vs Currow & will miss Kilcummin’s & East Kerry campaigns. |
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 23, 2023 18:42:28 GMT
It invariably, will take a lad two years to adjust to intercounty ball, once they initially adjust to the riggers on the body training and conditioning wise. Players, will actually, go backwards initially before building back up and surpassing their entrance capability levels, in this regard, one might see more or an improvement in the likes of Donal Down and Dara Roche next year. On Barry Dan, I have always been a huge fan of, however, he is what I would class as "an above average club player", I don't think he is inter county standard, and this would appear to be the consensus of Jack and Co. He got 15 minutes in dead rubbers late on against Clare and Louth, but come serious ball, he was not considered. I don't think Jack see's the Dingle lad as a genuine midfield contender... in this regard we are again reverting to similar posts of 12 and 24 months ago... need to unearth wing and midfielders in the County Championship That might be the case but he was probably our best midfielder during the league and in truth whatever Jack thinks the facts are Jack failed this year and the failure came mainly from midfield and half forward line. The same areas many of us posted and worried about all year Yes we were unlucky v Dubs but on the flip side were were lucky v Derry and Mayo ate us without salt. Croker can really show up a lack of pace and I think that's Barry's main issue. He probably will get similar chances again this year but I'd like to see Cillian Burke get a 15 minutes towards the end of league games and see what's he got. We haven't been as weak in midfield since the early 90's. |
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Post by thekingdom on Aug 23, 2023 20:31:58 GMT
The dubs are always focussing on having fast players for croker. The fact they play there all the time certainly helps. I don't think Michael Dara McCauley would have been on our panel.
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Post by homerj on Aug 23, 2023 21:37:46 GMT
biggest challenge facing Kerry is bridging the gap from 17-22 as we seem to be losing alot of good footballers over the last 3 or 4 years.
am i right in saying, this coincides with us not having a Junior team? thost teams were giving us alot of senior footballers until then. we need to have an official B team and get them playing challenge matches at crucial times of the year against division 4 teams and so on
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 24, 2023 10:25:56 GMT
biggest challenge facing Kerry is bridging the gap from 17-22 as we seem to be losing alot of good footballers over the last 3 or 4 years. am i right in saying, this coincides with us not having a Junior team? thost teams were giving us alot of senior footballers until then. we need to have an official B team and get them playing challenge matches at crucial times of the year against division 4 teams and so on The lack of a junior team definitely doesn't help. In the past Kerry was clearly the county that used the Junior competition the best in terms of bringing players through to senior. The change from U21 to U20 hasn't helped in terms of bringing players through. Also the change from minor to U17 probably doesn't help either. Someone was telling me Dublin, Galway and Cork all had extended panels of around 50 players whose main focus is on bringing younger lads through. Cork were apparently playing challenge games against some clubs with a development squad of lads too old for U20 a while back. |
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Post by shannonsider on Aug 24, 2023 12:32:24 GMT
biggest challenge facing Kerry is bridging the gap from 17-22 as we seem to be losing alot of good footballers over the last 3 or 4 years. am i right in saying, this coincides with us not having a Junior team? thost teams were giving us alot of senior footballers until then. we need to have an official B team and get them playing challenge matches at crucial times of the year against division 4 teams and so on Bold bit is very relevant Homerj For all the minor success since 2014 and strong teams there isn't as much coming through as there should be. The 2018 minor team for example hasn't produced a Senior panel member as an example. Which is shocking to me. Those lads turn 22 this year and 1/2 at a minimum should be thriving now. To make it even more worrying, if you stretch it forward to U20 level in 2021 - STILL only 1 of the panel that lost a good game to Cork by 1 point have appeared for Kerry Senior by my calculations. Seán O'Brien. And he has barely got a run. This to me is a very concerning one. Those guys are 22/23 now. What has happened? Even go back a year to 2020 U20s who lost the semi final to Galway and Dylan Casey has got a run with Seniors but that's it. To me, the likes of Darragh Lyne, having seen him at Sigerson cup level would be well worth a run but seemingly he's abroad I believe. James McCarthy has been motoring well with UL also. The likes of Paul Walsh and Dylan Geaney would have looked to have lots of potential (Geaney might possibly lack size for county Senior?) so it's amazing to me that not one of that group has really established themselves on the Senior panel. Dylan Casey might push on hopefully after seeing some action in 2023. Maybe the likes of Donal Down and Darragh Roche might get an opportunity to develop more in the league next year. 28 and 26 respectively. I don't know are other counties developing players better than we are. Take the Galway u20s of 2020 that beat us. Jack Glynn, Seán Kelly and Matthew Tierney came through in that team. They are 3 established Senior players now. |
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Post by clarinman on Aug 24, 2023 13:22:52 GMT
biggest challenge facing Kerry is bridging the gap from 17-22 as we seem to be losing alot of good footballers over the last 3 or 4 years. am i right in saying, this coincides with us not having a Junior team? thost teams were giving us alot of senior footballers until then. we need to have an official B team and get them playing challenge matches at crucial times of the year against division 4 teams and so on Bold bit is very relevant Homerj For all the minor success since 2014 and strong teams there isn't as much coming through as there should be. The 2018 minor team for example hasn't produced a Senior panel member as an example. Which is shocking to me. Those lads turn 22 this year and 1/2 at a minimum should be thriving now. To make it even more worrying, if you stretch it forward to U20 level in 2021 - STILL only 1 of the panel that lost a good game to Cork by 1 point have appeared for Kerry Senior by my calculations. Seán O'Brien. And he has barely got a run. This to me is a very concerning one. Those guys are 22/23 now. What has happened? Even go back a year to 2020 U20s who lost the semi final to Galway and Dylan Casey has got a run with Seniors but that's it. To me, the likes of Darragh Lyne, having seen him at Sigerson cup level would be well worth a run but seemingly he's abroad I believe. James McCarthy has been motoring well with UL also. The likes of Paul Walsh and Dylan Geaney would have looked to have lots of potential (Geaney might possibly lack size for county Senior?) so it's amazing to me that not one of that group has really established themselves on the Senior panel. Dylan Casey might push on hopefully after seeing some action in 2023. Maybe the likes of Donal Down and Darragh Roche might get an opportunity to develop more in the league next year. 28 and 26 respectively. I don't know are other counties developing players better than we are. Take the Galway u20s of 2020 that beat us. Jack Glynn, Seán Kelly and Matthew Tierney came through in that team. They are 3 established Senior players now.Sean Kelly is 26. It was his brother Paul who was on the Galway 2020 U20 team. Paul is on the Galway panel but rarely gets game time. |
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Post by hurlingman on Aug 24, 2023 13:29:13 GMT
biggest challenge facing Kerry is bridging the gap from 17-22 as we seem to be losing alot of good footballers over the last 3 or 4 years. am i right in saying, this coincides with us not having a Junior team? thost teams were giving us alot of senior footballers until then. we need to have an official B team and get them playing challenge matches at crucial times of the year against division 4 teams and so on The lack of a junior team definitely doesn't help. In the past Kerry was clearly the county that used the Junior competition the best in terms of bringing players through to senior. The change from U21 to U20 hasn't helped in terms of bringing players through. Also the change from minor to U17 probably doesn't help either. Someone was telling me Dublin, Galway and Cork all had extended panels of around 50 players whose main focus is on bringing younger lads through. Cork were apparently playing challenge games against some clubs with a development squad of lads too old for U20 a while back. I could never understand why counties didn't use the Junior championship more. It was a perfect way to get lads more experience at a higher level. Kerry have got a lot of players from it at the moment and in the past Cork and Dublin have. |
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