Kerry U20 Footballers 2022

[greengold35]

May 8, 2022 19:02:58 GMT veteran said:

Not a huge surprise that we lost today as we have not been consistently impressive, indeed poor at times, in our previous games.

Far more disappointing than today’s defeat was our astonishing inability to win the title on the strength of five successive minor successes. We went from 1994 to 2014 without winning a minor title. That was equaling distressing but the County Board took a serious look at that hiatus and we know the success that flowed from that review and subsequent action. It is high time the current Board similarly looked at our lack of success at this level and act accordingly.

In spite of the defeat today I can see a few seniors emerging from this team in due course.

Minors play on Thursday night in Tralee against Cork . I expect to be there. I have no idea what to expect from the current crop.

The turnover from minor to U20 is quite staggering given that both Kerry & Tyrone only had 4 survivors last Sunday from their minor encounter 3 years ago.
We have had much success in bringing our minors through in the past few years but for me our 3 standout players in those 5 minor successes were : Mark O’Connor, David Clifford & Sean O’Shea - each played two years, contributing handsomely in the process. None of them played at the next level U20/21 due to the outrageous rule that playing senior rules one out of underage whilst Mark O’Connor went to Australia - add in Diarmuid O’Connor to that mix and it’s easy to see how the playing field was levelled.

[dubaigaa2022]

May 10, 2022 17:43:46 GMT greengold35 said:

May 8, 2022 19:02:58 GMT veteran said:

Not a huge surprise that we lost today as we have not been consistently impressive, indeed poor at times, in our previous games.

Far more disappointing than today’s defeat was our astonishing inability to win the title on the strength of five successive minor successes. We went from 1994 to 2014 without winning a minor title. That was equaling distressing but the County Board took a serious look at that hiatus and we know the success that flowed from that review and subsequent action. It is high time the current Board similarly looked at our lack of success at this level and act accordingly.

In spite of the defeat today I can see a few seniors emerging from this team in due course.

Minors play on Thursday night in Tralee against Cork . I expect to be there. I have no idea what to expect from the current crop.

The turnover from minor to U20 is quite staggering given that both Kerry & Tyrone only had 4 survivors last Sunday from their minor encounter 3 years ago.
We have had much success in bringing our minors through in the past few years but for me our 3 standout players in those 5 minor successes were : Mark O’Connor, David Clifford & Sean O’Shea - each played two years, contributing handsomely in the process. None of them played at the next level U20/21 due to the outrageous rule that playing senior rules one out of underage whilst Mark O’Connor went to Australia - add in Diarmuid O’Connor to that mix and it’s easy to see how the playing field was levelled.

The frightening thing is that the real question is why is the turnover so great?
Most of the guys on the age are playing with their clubs etc - so in the backs - Kieran Sullian, Adam Curran, O’Sullivan (legion) Jason Kerins, and there was another guy from Crokes - all these guys are playing with their clubs and playing well - O’Sullivan Legion is injured and Kieran O’Sullivan was black balled as he moved to Nemo . Add to this Neil O’Shea Crokes - there is definitely a better back 6 available, in MF - you had a choice of Cathal Ó Beaglaoich (An Ghaeltacht) / Ronan Collins (Gneeveguilla) / Joe Linihan (Churchill) - I know Jow is injured but last year was left on the extended panel while Cathal Ryan of Rathmore was on the bench as MF cover as he was this year also - and yet when MF collapsed he wasn’t brought in . Forwards - Hassett (The Laune) Colin Crowley (Templenoe), Darragh Lynch (Listowel Emmets), Jack O’Connor (Beaufort)
Emmet O’Shea (Fossa), Ryan Grady - take your pick - a team from the guys on the last year would beat the team fielded by Declan in my estimation - so the reason is why we’re they ignored? Surely the management need a power game would be needed once we got to the knock out stages??
Why not go see these guys play with their club senior teams where you’re up against big strong men - Declan was looking at the Corn ui Mhuire - where it’s like comparing U17 rather than U20/Senior - I seen a lot of Collin in his club run - fab player - Jason Kerins for Crokes - saw him play for Crokes also - saw how good Hassett was when he came on against Cork and again on Sunday . So I am under no illusion - Management just got it wrong - I think if James Costello had this team - they would have a different feel to it - a more direct positive style and probably the best 15 on the field

[himself]

I think Ronan Collins of Gneeveguilla was out injured as well.
Sean, David,and Diarmuid were not held by rule; that only came in a year later (when Croke Park also made the genius move of having the U20 competition run off during the Leaving Cert - given the preponderance of Transition Year nowadays) that should have been an obvious problem. The lads were held by Kerry senior management will the approval of the County Board - I felt it was an awful mistake at the time.
Having David and Diarmuid held almost certainly cost us an Al Iteland - that's not to begrudge an outstanding Kildare or excuse a very poor performance by us on the night, but those two make a big difference on any team.

[keane]

Diarmuid O'Connor played against Kildare I'd swear? Sean O'Shea was the year before and was stopped from playing a final with Kenmare U20s by the management so he could be an unused sub against Galway - does that sound right?

[mg72]

May 10, 2022 19:34:34 GMT dubaigaa2022 said:

May 10, 2022 17:43:46 GMT greengold35 said:

The turnover from minor to U20 is quite staggering given that both Kerry & Tyrone only had 4 survivors last Sunday from their minor encounter 3 years ago.
We have had much success in bringing our minors through in the past few years but for me our 3 standout players in those 5 minor successes were : Mark O’Connor, David Clifford & Sean O’Shea - each played two years, contributing handsomely in the process. None of them played at the next level U20/21 due to the outrageous rule that playing senior rules one out of underage whilst Mark O’Connor went to Australia - add in Diarmuid O’Connor to that mix and it’s easy to see how the playing field was levelled.

The frightening thing is that the real question is why is the turnover so great?
Most of the guys on the age are playing with their clubs etc - so in the backs - Kieran Sullian, Adam Curran, O’Sullivan (legion) Jason Kerins, and there was another guy from Crokes - all these guys are playing with their clubs and playing well - O’Sullivan Legion is injured and Kieran O’Sullivan was black balled as he moved to Nemo . Add to this Neil O’Shea Crokes - there is definitely a better back 6 available, in MF - you had a choice of Cathal Ó Beaglaoich (An Ghaeltacht) / Ronan Collins (Gneeveguilla) / Joe Linihan (Churchill) - I know Jow is injured but last year was left on the extended panel while Cathal Ryan of Rathmore was on the bench as MF cover as he was this year also - and yet when MF collapsed he wasn’t brought in . Forwards - Hassett (The Laune) Colin Crowley (Templenoe), Darragh Lynch (Listowel Emmets), Jack O’Connor (Beaufort)
Emmet O’Shea (Fossa), Ryan Grady - take your pick - a team from the guys on the last year would beat the team fielded by Declan in my estimation - so the reason is why we’re they ignored? Surely the management need a power game would be needed once we got to the knock out stages??
Why not go see these guys play with their club senior teams where you’re up against big strong men - Declan was looking at the Corn ui Mhuire - where it’s like comparing U17 rather than U20/Senior - I seen a lot of Collin in his club run - fab player - Jason Kerins for Crokes - saw him play for Crokes also - saw how good Hassett was when he came on against Cork and again on Sunday . So I am under no illusion - Management just got it wrong - I think if James Costello had this team - they would have a different feel to it - a more direct positive style and probably the best 15 on the field

I'd agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I'd have to disagree with you when you say that "midfield collapsed". I felt that Ruari Murphy and Sean O'Brien were actually 2 of the better performers last Sunday.

[westgaa]

Would have to agree taught O Brien and Murphy were 2 of the better performers, plus these 2 have way more ability to travel than other midfield players mentioned, not sure what game some lads were watching

[dubaigaa2022]

May 11, 2022 10:20:18 GMT mg72 said:

May 10, 2022 19:34:34 GMT dubaigaa2022 said:

The frightening thing is that the real question is why is the turnover so great?
Most of the guys on the age are playing with their clubs etc - so in the backs - Kieran Sullian, Adam Curran, O’Sullivan (legion) Jason Kerins, and there was another guy from Crokes - all these guys are playing with their clubs and playing well - O’Sullivan Legion is injured and Kieran O’Sullivan was black balled as he moved to Nemo . Add to this Neil O’Shea Crokes - there is definitely a better back 6 available, in MF - you had a choice of Cathal Ó Beaglaoich (An Ghaeltacht) / Ronan Collins (Gneeveguilla) / Joe Linihan (Churchill) - I know Jow is injured but last year was left on the extended panel while Cathal Ryan of Rathmore was on the bench as MF cover as he was this year also - and yet when MF collapsed he wasn’t brought in . Forwards - Hassett (The Laune) Colin Crowley (Templenoe), Darragh Lynch (Listowel Emmets), Jack O’Connor (Beaufort)
Emmet O’Shea (Fossa), Ryan Grady - take your pick - a team from the guys on the last year would beat the team fielded by Declan in my estimation - so the reason is why we’re they ignored? Surely the management need a power game would be needed once we got to the knock out stages??
Why not go see these guys play with their club senior teams where you’re up against big strong men - Declan was looking at the Corn ui Mhuire - where it’s like comparing U17 rather than U20/Senior - I seen a lot of Collin in his club run - fab player - Jason Kerins for Crokes - saw him play for Crokes also - saw how good Hassett was when he came on against Cork and again on Sunday . So I am under no illusion - Management just got it wrong - I think if James Costello had this team - they would have a different feel to it - a more direct positive style and probably the best 15 on the field

I'd agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I'd have to disagree with you when you say that "midfield collapsed". I felt that Ruari Murphy and Sean O'Brien were actually 2 of the better performers last Sunday.

I agree on R Murphy, played well but as a WF - won every little ball in MF, Sean won 2 great balls after the goal but overall a very poor campaign and a very poor game. MF is not his position - just too small asd a modern day MF'r - WB / WF and Ruairi has the best chance out of the group of stepping up into the seniors in the nest few years

[kerryeastcoastusa]

May 14, 2022 12:29:04 GMT dubaigaa2022 said:

May 11, 2022 10:20:18 GMT mg72 said:

I'd agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I'd have to disagree with you when you say that "midfield collapsed". I felt that Ruari Murphy and Sean O'Brien were actually 2 of the better performers last Sunday.

I agree on R Murphy, played well but as a WF - won every little ball in MF, Sean won 2 great balls after the goal but overall a very poor campaign and a very poor game. MF is not his position - just too small asd a modern day MF'r - WB / WF and Ruairi has the best chance out of the group of stepping up into the seniors in the nest few years

I think both players seemed to play well over the campaign but I would agree neither appeared to be comfortable midfield. Having seen Sean first year u20 and in minor years he is definitely more suited to half back line. He is an excellent fielder but doesn’t really control the game when playing midfield.
R Murphy also seemed more of a wing forward to me. Both very promising players who I think will be on to challenge for the senior squad next year.

[Mickmack]

Tyrone winning pulling up now.

One wing back kicked 3 points. The only lad kicked at least one. 3 points from midfielders. Watching them taking ball into contact on the oppositions D, they never hop or go toe to hand. Instead its quick hands between red jerseys till the opening occurs.

Kerry would have beaten Kildare.

Kerry and Tyrone the two best teams in the competition.

Finally, Ruairi Canavan would probably be ticked off by coaches today over his shot selection at times... except most of them went over the bar. A unique talent coming up.

The Tyrone senior managers were looking on today. I wonder they call a few up.
The u20s play the same system of play that Tyrone use. Its a question of whether they are physically developed enough for senior intercounty.


McGleenan is anyway.

[Whosinmidfield]

Bounce of a ball off the post away from an All Ireland this year at the end of the day.

Canavan, McGleenan, Devlin who kicked 3 points from wing back and McHugh the big midfielder who was minor last year will all play Senior for Tyrone in the future. As for this year, Canavan will definitely come into the panel (if Peter lets him as I think he’s still in school), might even start. He’s a special talent. McGleenan would be very effective from the bench as he doesn’t have the stamina to have the same level of impact throughout the whole game.

[Mickmack]

May 14, 2022 17:33:47 GMT Whosinmidfield said:

Bounce of a ball off the post away from an All Ireland this year at the end of the day.

Another All Ireland lost by playing into the oppositions hands by taking the ball into contact an losing it.

[royalkerryfan]

Ruairi is still in school I believe and from listening to his dad they seem a very sensible family.
Hopefully he's not rushed into any team and that he's minded which I'm sure he will.

[veteran]

Tyrone are often maligned for their blanket defence , negativity etc . How ironic and wonderful to see them give a glorious exhibition of long range point kicking today. It is often overlooked that , because of a sometimes less than wholesome approach , Tyrone tend to produce marvelous footballers at every age level.

[Aodhan]

Tyrone are reigning senior and under 20 champions and kicked away the minor tittle against Meath. They even missed a very scorable free at the death to bring the game to extra time. Center back today, Steve Donaghy, is a nephew of Peter Canavan and another good prospect.

[Ballyfireside]

Rurai was flagged to me, must be at least a year ago, maybe two, I was told he IS the best of the 3, so his recent performances are only a surprise to those who haven't seen him. Senior is a big step up and they'll have road tested Rurai with a few current day Ryan mcmenamins. Was Clifford not stronger at the same age?

I look at the pic of o'hora on David and wonder what loonie bin the Mayo lad had come out of - Davids thighs alone were twice the size, and him goading and mouthing and whatever else. Whose idea was it, very unMayo, jazus every Mayo man I ever knew was tough if it was warranted but they'd be ashamed of such clowning. My point is that recruits need to be able to look after themselves, Donegal's Oisin Gallen was ragdolled by Mayo and all within the rules, don't know if his subsequent injuries were related to his class being ahead of his s&c, pity really as he was, and hopefully still is, an amazing prospect, a fellow club mate of his told me that marking him in training was the gate to the subs bench, double marking he said was even worse. I saw him Vs St Michael's of a day and the genius was bubbling, oozing, eg backing his man by staying out of a tackle and so being an option to pass to, right enough the ball ends up in oisins chest hands and over the black spot - wud love to see a video of it.p What was amazing was the delayed gasp from the stand, it was so long since spectators saw this they/we forgot what it looked like and so the delayed cop of what the garsun had anticipated - anticipation being the key difference between a club and county man.

[Mickmack]

Red Hand-me-downs – the family ties making Tyrone’s future

Declan Bogue

May 14 2022 02:30 AM

If you were a Tyrone football fan of the 1990s and hadn’t seen a game since, after a cursory glance at the Under-20 panel you would be forgiven for rubbing your eyes in disbelief.

In the Ulster final against Cavan in Brewster Park, Ruairi Canavan was at the perfect angle for the supporters behind him to capture a sumptuous sideline ball, kicked with just the right amount of swerve over the bar. In that moment, it was like looking at his father, Peter.

At one stage in the All-Ireland semi-final against Kerry last weekend, Michael McGleenan took possession of the ball. He bulldozed his way through a couple of challenges and when another defender stood off him, sought the contact to shove him back before slinging a shot over the bar.

There’s no way he looked anything other than just like his father Mattie in that sequence.


That’s only the start of it.

You have Conor Cush, son of Adrian who was Peter Canavan’s attacking foil for many years through their underage and senior careers.

Plunkett Donaghy was retired by the time of the 1995 All-Ireland final, but he played with the aforementioned trio. His son Stevie is on this U-20 panel.

James Donaghy, at wing-back, is a cousin of McGleenan.

Sean O’Donnell, the flame-haired attacker from Trillick, is a cousin of Ruairi Canavan and a nephew of Peter.




Ronan McGarrity is a nephew of the Ronan McGarrity that played in the 1995 final, and – again – a cousin of Ruairi Canavan and nephew of Peter; his aunt is Finola, married to Peter.

The further on you go, the more connections there are. Some of them are more obscure, such as Harry Morgan of Dungannon, whose father Chris played minors and Under-21 football with the county. And all of these boys are managed by Paul Devlin, who played with their fathers in the 1990s and was corner-back of the 1995 All-Ireland final side.

It then skips a generation too.

Cormac Devlin of Ardboe is a son of Gavin, the two-time All-Ireland winner in 2003 and 2005 who then embarked on a lengthy coaching career as Mickey Harte’s assistant, and is still with him in Louth.

Last year, a similar article traced the senior teams’ connections to Tyrone teams of the past and found that most of the starting team had relatives that had also worn the Red Hand, such as Conor Meyler (father Seanie) and the Donnelly brothers Matthew and Richard (father Liam), while Darragh Canavan’s father is also very well documented by this point.

Eunan Lindsay is the Tyrone county board hurling officer and former vice-Chairman. He has a particular interest in appearance statistics, having sat down over lockdown to compile the names and appearances of everyone that is on record of having played for the county.

“It is possibly more notable when you see these names appear year after year after year.

“I am sure it happens in other counties as well but it could be because Tyrone have been that successful since 1986 that these boys were of an age and a time.

“It’s very noticeable at this stage that there are certain bloodlines coming through. With a bit of luck it will continue well into the future.”

The truly remarkable thing is how some of these players resemble their fathers in an almost alarming way in playing style.

“If your name is Darragh Canavan, you are never going to be a corner-back. Or you are never going to be put in corner-back,” Lindsay points out.

A final example for you, which shows the span of these things.

Eoin Corry of Omagh is also on the panel. He is a grandson of Paddy Corey, who played on the first Tyrone team to win a senior Ulster title in 1956.

The spellings as we detail here are correct. The relationship comes from Eoin’s mother, a Corey, who married a Corry.

[dubaigaa2022]

May 14, 2022 22:25:31 GMT Aodhan said:

Tyrone are reigning senior and under 20 champions and kicked away the minor tittle against Meath. They even missed a very scorable free at the death to bring the game to extra time. Center back today, Steve Donaghy, is a nephew of Peter Canavan and another good prospect.

Tyrone have development as a county and from what was once called “puke” football is now a joy to watch.
Yesterday and also against Kerry - they took shots that our U20 management team would frown upon - they took shots from all angles - whereas when Kerry got within 35 yards of the goal - they turned back out !! This type of football coming from Declan who as a player was that man who took on the shot was probably the most disappointing part of their play - Tyrone are developing leaders, we are developing players afraid to shoot. On the tackle Tyrone are v disciplined and have a few real good man markets on the way .. they are dominating underage football and that will transfer eventually in to their senior team.
From a Kerry perspective we do really need to look at our overall strategy because at this time - it is not working
The brilliance of David Clifford and Seanie papered up the cracks of our over failure at underage level for the past 20 years and it’s mostly ignored by the top table;
I feel we as a county should really bring not our our failure into focus but the strategy of play and how we are developing footballers in Kerry:
We need to develop defenders - guys who were frowned upon a few years BACK as it was all what can they add attack!!
We don’t have a stick of a MF’r from 22 down to U16 and despite all the accolades on this page for certain forwards - in reality we have very few ..
if David Clifford gets injured tomorrow morning - what odds would the bookies give on Kerry winning the AI?
So to anyone who has influence - our blueprint needs to be torn up and start again with the development squads and develop individuals who will lead and run games for you ..
these guys are key when you actually need to win - history has proven that to us ..

[Mickmack]

May 15, 2022 8:18:32 GMT dubaigaa2022 said:

May 14, 2022 22:25:31 GMT Aodhan said:

Tyrone are reigning senior and under 20 champions and kicked away the minor tittle against Meath. They even missed a very scorable free at the death to bring the game to extra time. Center back today, Steve Donaghy, is a nephew of Peter Canavan and another good prospect.

We don’t have a stick of a MF’r from 22 down to U16

I dont understand what you are saying in that line....but i agree with the general trust of your post.

[KY50]

May 15, 2022 8:18:32 GMT dubaigaa2022 said:

May 14, 2022 22:25:31 GMT Aodhan said:

Tyrone are reigning senior and under 20 champions and kicked away the minor tittle against Meath. They even missed a very scorable free at the death to bring the game to extra time. Center back today, Steve Donaghy, is a nephew of Peter Canavan and another good prospect.

Tyrone have development as a county and from what was once called “puke” football is now a joy to watch.
Yesterday and also against Kerry - they took shots that our U20 management team would frown upon - they took shots from all angles - whereas when Kerry got within 35 yards of the goal - they turned back out !! This type of football coming from Declan who as a player was that man who took on the shot was probably the most disappointing part of their play - Tyrone are developing leaders, we are developing players afraid to shoot. On the tackle Tyrone are v disciplined and have a few real good man markets on the way .. they are dominating underage football and that will transfer eventually in to their senior team.
From a Kerry perspective we do really need to look at our overall strategy because at this time - it is not working
The brilliance of David Clifford and Seanie papered up the cracks of our over failure at underage level for the past 20 years and it’s mostly ignored by the top table;
I feel we as a county should really bring not our our failure into focus but the strategy of play and how we are developing footballers in Kerry:
We need to develop defenders - guys who were frowned upon a few years BACK as it was all what can they add attack!!
We don’t have a stick of a MF’r from 22 down to U16 and despite all the accolades on this page for certain forwards - in reality we have very few ..
if David Clifford gets injured tomorrow morning - what odds would the bookies give on Kerry winning the AI?
So to anyone who has influence - our blueprint needs to be torn up and start again with the development squads and develop individuals who will lead and run games for you ..
these guys are key when you actually need to win - history has proven that to us ..

Great post, need to review existing underage strategy re development squads and focus more on leadership and specific skills as well, in addition more joined up thinking required on the economic and educational side as there must be real opportunities to give players the chance of sustainable in Kerry, remote working to an extent may be helping but a teal long term strategy required.

[veteran]

Well, if one isn't depressed by the war in Ukraine, or by the runaway inflation or by the housing crisis , then you certainly will be after reading the post from dubaigaa. Reading it, one would get the impression that Kerry football has reached a nadir. Perhaps in any case, seeing we are at high season, it might be prudent to reserve judgement until the end of July.

However, the phrase that made be bristle was " our over failure at under age level for the past twenty years". Seriously? During that twenty year span, according to my calculations, we won five minor titles and five Hogan Cup titles. Indeed, in the latest incarnation of the Hogan Cup, we were beaten by a point or two in a game of supreme quality. I am not sure that those facts constitute failure at underage level. If it does, other counties are in dire straits.

I cannot understand this eagerness from people within and without the county to highlight the contribution of David and Sean O'Shea , the inference being that they are carrying the other team members on their backs. Every football team , regardless of the code, has a couple of leading lights without whom the chances of success are minimised or , in some cases, eliminated. This is not peculiar to Kerry and their leading lights.

This concept of leadership is a nebulous one. The Tyrone u20 team are rightly being acclaimed for the quality of their football and attendant leadership yesterday, as indeed their seniors were last year. Yet, a couple of weeks ago this same senior team was castigated for their lack of discipline and leadership. Nebulous, as I said.

Now, if somebody expresses dismay and annoyance at our inability to maximise our resources, on the strength of the underage success I outlined, at more advanced age groupings then I am at one with them. However, that is a separate issue from proclaiming a lack of underage success over the past twenty years.

[Aodhan]

May 15, 2022 8:04:29 GMT Mickmack said:

Red Hand-me-downs – the family ties making Tyrone’s future

Sean O’Donnell, the flame-haired attacker from Trillick, is a cousin of Ruairi Canavan and a nephew of Peter.

My mistake, so it the lively red headed #13 who is Peter’s nephew. As the article states one should never put a Canavan relation in the backs.

[Mickmack]

May 15, 2022 11:52:33 GMT veteran said:

Well, if one isn't depressed by the war in Ukraine, or by the runaway inflation or by the housing crisis , then you certainly will be after reading the post from dubaigaa. Reading it, one would get the impression that Kerry football has reached a nadir. Perhaps in any case, seeing we are at high season, it might be prudent to reserve judgement until the end of July.

However, the phrase that made be bristle was " our over failure at under age level for the past twenty years". Seriously? During that twenty year span, according to my calculations, we won five minor titles and five Hogan Cup titles. Indeed, in the latest incarnation of the Hogan Cup, we were beaten by a point or two in a game of supreme quality. I am not sure that those facts constitute failure at underage level. If it does, other counties are in dire straits.

I cannot understand this eagerness from people within and without the county to highlight the contribution of David and Sean O'Shea , the inference being that they are carrying the other team members on their backs. Every football team , regardless of the code, has a couple of leading lights without whom the chances of success are minimised or , in some cases, eliminated. This is not peculiar to Kerry and their leading lights.

This concept of leadership is a nebulous one. The Tyrone u20 team are rightly being acclaimed for the quality of their football and attendant leadership yesterday, as indeed their seniors were last year. Yet, a couple of weeks ago this same senior team was castigated for their lack of discipline and leadership. Nebulous, as I said.

Now, if somebody expresses dismay and annoyance at our inability to maximise our resources, on the strength of the underage success I outlined, at more advanced age groupings then I am at one with them. However, that is a separate issue from proclaiming a lack of underage success over the past twenty years.

I will put it this way Veteran.

When we have a stronger panel than our opponents we tend to win. We do have a bigger pick than most counties in football after all.

But when we are up against an opponent who matches us in that regard, we tend to lose close games due to a lack of tactical nous ..being hit for break away scores after blindly taking the ball into contact is one recurring example.

[Kingdomson]

May 15, 2022 13:06:28 GMT Mickmack said:

May 15, 2022 11:52:33 GMT veteran said:

Well, if one isn't depressed by the war in Ukraine, or by the runaway inflation or by the housing crisis , then you certainly will be after reading the post from dubaigaa. Reading it, one would get the impression that Kerry football has reached a nadir. Perhaps in any case, seeing we are at high season, it might be prudent to reserve judgement until the end of July.

However, the phrase that made be bristle was " our over failure at under age level for the past twenty years". Seriously? During that twenty year span, according to my calculations, we won five minor titles and five Hogan Cup titles. Indeed, in the latest incarnation of the Hogan Cup, we were beaten by a point or two in a game of supreme quality. I am not sure that those facts constitute failure at underage level. If it does, other counties are in dire straits.

I cannot understand this eagerness from people within and without the county to highlight the contribution of David and Sean O'Shea , the inference being that they are carrying the other team members on their backs. Every football team , regardless of the code, has a couple of leading lights without whom the chances of success are minimised or , in some cases, eliminated. This is not peculiar to Kerry and their leading lights.

This concept of leadership is a nebulous one. The Tyrone u20 team are rightly being acclaimed for the quality of their football and attendant leadership yesterday, as indeed their seniors were last year. Yet, a couple of weeks ago this same senior team was castigated for their lack of discipline and leadership. Nebulous, as I said.

Now, if somebody expresses dismay and annoyance at our inability to maximise our resources, on the strength of the underage success I outlined, at more advanced age groupings then I am at one with them. However, that is a separate issue from proclaiming a lack of underage success over the past twenty years.

I will put it this way Veteran.

When we have a stronger panel than our opponents we tend to win. We do have a bigger pick than most counties in football after all.

But when we are up against an opponent who matches us in that regard, we tend to lose close games due to a lack of tactical nous ..being hit for break away scores after blindly taking the ball into contact is one recurring example.

Tactical nous or just not mentally strong enough? Why are we so often in such tight games less street smart? Are our fellas too mollycoddled or what? It's poor decision making that often tends to be our undoing rather than any lack of footballing ability. The recent under 20 semi-final against Tyrone was just the latest example.

[tyroneperson]

I don't have a massive amount to impart about the Tyrone U20s but I thought it might surprise some people here to learn that the feeling in the county is that the U20 management team had underachieved and that it was poor tactics that led to All-Ireland semi-final defeats in 2019 and 2020. So either we were too harsh or the current crop is a particularly talented team. Maybe the management has improved even. Thought it was worth mentioning after reading some criticism of Declan O'Sullivan here. Maybe it's not that relevant but it's just funny how things panned out - the Tyrone management definitely got plenty of stick after previous defeats.

Ruairi Canavan still has another year at U20 level and I'd be surprised if he's thrown into the deep end with the seniors for another year or two. They kept Darragh Canavan in reserve for a while even after drafting him into the senior squad, he was very carefully managed. As someone alluded to here they're a very sensible family. I know Peter Canavan isn't that popular in Kerry and I understand that but he genuinely comes across as having no ego to speak of and I don't think that's bias on my part because I wouldn't say the same thing about certain other Tyrone greats.

[thehermit]

May 16, 2022 19:58:48 GMT tyroneperson said:

I don't have a massive amount to impart about the Tyrone U20s but I thought it might surprise some people here to learn that the feeling in the county is that the U20 management team had underachieved and that it was poor tactics that led to All-Ireland semi-final defeats in 2019 and 2020. So either we were too harsh or the current crop is a particularly talented team. Maybe the management has improved even. Thought it was worth mentioning after reading some criticism of Declan O'Sullivan here. Maybe it's not that relevant but it's just funny how things panned out - the Tyrone management definitely got plenty of stick after previous defeats.

Ruairi Canavan still has another year at U20 level and I'd be surprised if he's thrown into the deep end with the seniors for another year or two. They kept Darragh Canavan in reserve for a while even after drafting him into the senior squad, he was very carefully managed. As someone alluded to here they're a very sensible family. I know Peter Canavan isn't that popular in Kerry and I understand that but he genuinely comes across as having no ego to speak of and I don't think that's bias on my part because I wouldn't say the same thingwhy

I don't know about Peter Canavan not being popular in Kerry, there might be a couple of his former teammates that aren't but I think most of us appreciated Peter the Great for the player he was.

[tyroneperson]

May 16, 2022 20:21:59 GMT thehermit said:

May 16, 2022 19:58:48 GMT tyroneperson said:

I don't have a massive amount to impart about the Tyrone U20s but I thought it might surprise some people here to learn that the feeling in the county is that the U20 management team had underachieved and that it was poor tactics that led to All-Ireland semi-final defeats in 2019 and 2020. So either we were too harsh or the current crop is a particularly talented team. Maybe the management has improved even. Thought it was worth mentioning after reading some criticism of Declan O'Sullivan here. Maybe it's not that relevant but it's just funny how things panned out - the Tyrone management definitely got plenty of stick after previous defeats.

Ruairi Canavan still has another year at U20 level and I'd be surprised if he's thrown into the deep end with the seniors for another year or two. They kept Darragh Canavan in reserve for a while even after drafting him into the senior squad, he was very carefully managed. As someone alluded to here they're a very sensible family. I know Peter Canavan isn't that popular in Kerry and I understand that but he genuinely comes across as having no ego to speak of and I don't think that's bias on my part because I wouldn't say the same thingwhy

I don't know about Peter Canavan not being popular in Kerry, there might be a couple of his former teammates that aren't but I think most of us appreciated Peter the Great for the player he was.

Well I know Colm Cooper had a dig at him in his book about the rugby style challenge in 2005 and that's understandable. I was just trying to make a point that he's a very grounded person in 'real life' for what that's worth. Because not everyone is, there's a few former Tyrone stars who would eat themselves and Canavan isn't one of them.

[southward]

I wouldn't have thought Kerry people had any issue with Canavan either. Never came across any negative commentary myself anyway. Ricey, Gormley, maybe..

Congrats on the AI by the way. Ruairi is some talent alright, beat us on his own.

[Deleted]

Agreed, I don’t think Kerry people have anything against Canavan either and as a pundit he is pretty decent also. I would have had time for Cavanagh as a footballer but his career post playing has not done him any favours and he seems to be going the Spillane route.

[Mickmack]

May 16, 2022 17:35:34 GMT Kingdomson said:

May 15, 2022 13:06:28 GMT Mickmack said:

I will put it this way Veteran.

When we have a stronger panel than our opponents we tend to win. We do have a bigger pick than most counties in football after all.

But when we are up against an opponent who matches us in that regard, we tend to lose close games due to a lack of tactical nous ..being hit for break away scores after blindly taking the ball into contact is one recurring example.

Tactical nous or just not mentally strong enough? Why are we so often in such tight games less street smart? Are our fellas too mollycoddled or what? It's poor decision making that often tends to be our undoing rather than any lack of footballing ability. The recent under 20 semi-final against Tyrone was just the latest example.

Surely something simple like playing a bit of basketball between a tight group of 3 or 4 players around the D till an opening occurs, could be coached. The Tyrone u20s do that. Dublin seniors do it. It could be coached to u14s. Instead we take a hop or a solo and get dispossessed. Its been going on now for years.

[veteran]

Tyroneperson, first of all congratulations on your u20 success. Hugely impressive in the final. I have already commented here on the long range point kicking. There are times when I feel it is a fading art and I wish we did more of it. We sometimes do it but not enough . It is a very productive form of attack and of course much more aesthetically pleasing than the pass the parcel we have become accustomed to in recent times.

I am surprised that you feel Peter Canavan is not popular down here. I have never been aware of that attitude. In my football conversations , Peter is always mentioned with respect. How could it be any other way. He was a wonderful footballer and furthermore, in my view, he is one of the fairest and sharpest analysts out there. I certainly always listen to and read what he says with great care.

One final word about Peter. When his son, Darragh, got that severe ankle injury in the NFL game in Killarney last year he referred in more than one media outlet to the excellent care he got from the Kerry county board and medical team and the medical team in University Hospital Kerry. In other words , unlike a lot of people, Peter didn’t take that attention and medical expertise for granted. I felt that was a classy response from Peter which in fact is what I would expect from him.