|
Post by colinsworth1 on Sept 6, 2021 4:15:31 GMT
Just saw the game again I’d recommend anyone to see it again we played some brilliant passages of play we were a lot better than I thought and better than disappointed fans would lead one to believe . Mickey Harts often used line comes to mind “ when you win you didn’t do everything right and when you lose you didn’t do everything wrong “ all week I’ve felt we done everything wrong but that’s not the case, not even close . Take three or four players who under performed that on another day would have been different Number 14 our full forward whether it was PG or TW Just did not get the job done pivotal position that has to be got right poor by both Jack had a game to forget in midfield then David wasn’t around at the business end of the game That’s the critical position s of full forward and midfield that malfunctioned for us on the day strategy and game management and fitness have been possibly over used Key positions just not up to par and yes that’s goes back to management every time the buck stops there you can blame players but players are only there because there put there by management . Yes we left too many points behind in our quest for goals Also like I feared when I heard of his appointment We got frees against and no call s for that made a huge difference I would say total of 10 especially late in game Soft frees to Tyrone and no frees for us when merited 7 to 10 in total We d have the winter long to count hope fully some analysts here can do this not that we’ll get any outside sympathy But for internal use it will help us
|
|
|
Post by colinsworth1 on Sept 6, 2021 4:52:04 GMT
Just saw the game again I’d recommend anyone to see it again we played some brilliant passages of play we were a lot better than I thought and better than disappointed fans would lead one to believe . Mickey Harts often used line comes to mind “ when you win you didn’t do everything right and when you lose you didn’t do everything wrong “ all week I’ve felt we done everything wrong but that’s not the case, not even close . Take three or four players who under performed that on another day would have been different Number 14 our full forward whether it was PG or TW Just did not get the job done pivotal position that has to be got right poor by both Jack had a game to forget in midfield then David wasn’t around at the business end of the game That’s the critical position s of full forward and midfield that malfunctioned for us on the day strategy and game management and fitness have been possibly over used Key positions just not up to par and yes that’s goes back to management every time the buck stops there you can blame players but players are only there because there put there by management . Yes we left too many points behind in our quest for goals Also like I feared when I heard of his appointment We got frees against and no call s for that made a huge difference I would say total of 10 especially late in game Soft frees to Tyrone and no frees for us when merited 7 to 10 in total We d have the winter long to count hope fully some analysts here can do this not that we’ll get any outside sympathy But for internal use it will help us Which all leads me to conclude that Tyrone were not as good as I had first thought and Mayo can beat them in the AI Mayo have a quality midfield. And Aidan o Shea has to gather him self and play 14 even if it means re inventing himself
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 11, 2021 8:53:33 GMT
Below is an extract from EFs article today. Kerry backs were left very exposed and on a hiding to nothing really. Dara Moynihan either got injured very early or was picked when injured.
..................
The similarities with 2014 don’t end there. While it is a lifetime ago in terms of how football has evolved, much of what was relevant for us that day is true for Mayo today. Two weeks ago Kerry showed Mayo exactly what not to do. Solo into trouble, get turned over and leave the backdoor open for a counter-attack. This is providing laboratory conditions for Tyrone to thrive in.
As I mentioned here after the semi-, Kerry were turned over 30 times in the attacking third and Tyrone scored 2-9 of their 3-14 via this method. Mayo will have to guard against this. With their hard-running game, they also have a tendency to repeatedly attempt to bludgeon their way through the middle channel even if it is well manned defensively. They are guilty of turnovers in this area and one critical area that Kerry really fell down in was their reaction to these turnovers.
The problem was too often there was no reaction, which is unforgivable. Turnovers against a team like Tyrone should equal emergency stations in a player’s mind. Kerry players should have been sprinting to the tackle or back into their own half to help out defensively. Too often players just stood up and let runners go or lunged in and missed tackles.
It was mad stuff, will make for hard viewing and conversations whenever they get around to the review — but it was perfect for Tyrone. I expect Mayo to have turnovers today, as they are inevitable when playing Tyrone, but I also expect them to react much better to them as they always do.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 12, 2021 0:01:55 GMT
Below is an extract from EFs article today. Kerry backs were left very exposed and on a hiding to nothing really. Dara Moynihan either got injured very early or was picked when injured. .................. The similarities with 2014 don’t end there. While it is a lifetime ago in terms of how football has evolved, much of what was relevant for us that day is true for Mayo today. Two weeks ago Kerry showed Mayo exactly what not to do. Solo into trouble, get turned over and leave the backdoor open for a counter-attack. This is providing laboratory conditions for Tyrone to thrive in. As I mentioned here after the semi-, Kerry were turned over 30 times in the attacking third and Tyrone scored 2-9 of their 3-14 via this method. Mayo will have to guard against this. With their hard-running game, they also have a tendency to repeatedly attempt to bludgeon their way through the middle channel even if it is well manned defensively. They are guilty of turnovers in this area and one critical area that Kerry really fell down in was their reaction to these turnovers. The problem was too often there was no reaction, which is unforgivable. Turnovers against a team like Tyrone should equal emergency stations in a player’s mind. Kerry players should have been sprinting to the tackle or back into their own half to help out defensively. Too often players just stood up and let runners go or lunged in and missed tackles. It was mad stuff, will make for hard viewing and conversations whenever they get around to the review — but it was perfect for Tyrone. I expect Mayo to have turnovers today, as they are inevitable when playing Tyrone, but I also expect them to react much better to them as they always do. EF putting his hand up? Go on Éamonn/Donie - our county needs you!
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 12, 2021 15:17:19 GMT
|
|
|
Post by john4 on Sept 12, 2021 15:33:24 GMT
Is he imprisoned in Australia?, He has decided that he is unavailable to play for Kerry. End.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 12, 2021 16:12:02 GMT
Limerick last won a minor All Ireland 37 years ago. Galway won 6 of the last 11. Limerick could win 5 All Irelands in a row now. Good minor teams don't necessarily lead to a successful senior team for lots of reasons. Mark oConnor will probably never play senior for Kerry. Accept it. He made a choice. Some of yesterdays Tyrone players came home from there. I cant see Mark coming home.
|
|
|
Post by taggert on Sept 12, 2021 16:22:49 GMT
Agreed Mick.
In any event, no single player will make the difference here as the current deficit is a group thing (players and management) - dishonesty by certain players not tracking back, rank bad decision making by others taking on low percentage efforts, recurring inability of the group to change course/tactic during a game and absence of composure to control a game by recycling when the situation demands just that.
Tyrone had a unity of purpose that they backed up with savage honesty and workrate, very good decision making and no end of composure and control when it was needed.
Its why they are All Ireland champions and we are not.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 12, 2021 19:29:15 GMT
There are any number of reasons that could have us put in better shifts, Marc is one, that my view - is it people are telling me I am not entitled to my view?
|
|
|
Post by john4 on Sept 12, 2021 20:00:23 GMT
Everyone is 100% entitled to their views. It's my view that Ireland would win the world cup if Ronaldo and Messi were Irish... But there not. We might wish things were different but we have to live with what we have and anyone living and working in Australia, we do not have.
|
|
|
Post by taggert on Sept 12, 2021 20:05:44 GMT
There are any number of reasons that could have us put in better shifts, Marc is one, that my view - is it people are telling me I am not entitled to my view? Its a forum where all are entitled to their views and all are entitled to ignore, agree and/or disagree with said views. So, fear not. Nobody disputing the talent Mark was and now is in Oz. I just feel the current players and management should also look in the mirror, collectively. A bit of introspection as a group and owning the resolution of the failure points....
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 12, 2021 22:11:45 GMT
There are any number of reasons that could have us put in better shifts, Marc is one, that my view - is it people are telling me I am not entitled to my view? Its a forum where all are entitled to their views and all are entitled to ignore, agree and/or disagree with said views. So, fear not. Nobody disputing the talent Mark was and now is in Oz. I just feel the current players and management should also look in the mirror, collectively. A bit of introspection as a group and owning the resolution of the failure points.... Philly McMahon: We needed to step up as players when it was put up to us and we didn't McMahon believes Dublin missed out on the final because key players didn’t step up in big games when it really mattered FRI, 10 SEP, 2021 - 05:05 PAUL KEANE Philly McMahon reckons the winner of the All-Ireland may be the team that doesn’t believe it has already achieved enough by reaching the final. The eight-time All-Ireland winning Dublin defender came on in the semi-final loss to Mayo, a landmark result for the Connacht champions. Tyrone similarly caused an upset by beating current All-Ireland favourites Kerry, and McMahon reckons there’s a chance one of those teams may subconsciously settle for just reaching the final. “There are obviously question marks around either team in terms of do they really believe?” said McMahon at the launch of Gaisce’s #BulbsForBees campaign. “Was it just about getting over the line against Kerry or Dublin, or did you want to go on and win the All-Ireland? I think the team that answers that best, the team whose expectations were: ‘We’re not just going to beat Dublin, or Kerry, we’re going to win the All-Ireland’, could do it. “I think behind the scenes that’s going to be the challenge for both management teams, to go: ‘This was just another step along the journey. We’ll celebrate it, but we’ll move on’. “I’ve seen teams over the years who have drawn against us and who maybe didn’t really think it was all about winning an All-Ireland, it was probably just about beating Dublin. “That success of beating a team that’s hot favourites can breed complacency. That’s the big thing I’d say you’d question after the game on Saturday — which team actually celebrated or thought they’d won the All-Ireland after beating Dublin or Kerry?” McMahon believes Dublin missed out on the final because key players didn’t step up in big games when it really mattered. Mayo, Meath, and even Division 4 outfit Wexford all dominated Dublin for stretches in their Championship games this year. “I’m not sure we dealt as well as we could have with those stop-start kind of stutters that we had, I think we needed to be better than that as players,” said 34-year-old McMahon, who is now considering his own future. “We needed to step up as players when it was put up to us, and we didn’t. We knew Mayo were going to come out with a strong second half, and it was one of those things that I felt when things aren’t going as well as they should, you’re waiting for the next man to step up, for a leader to step up, and we probably didn’t have that, unfortunately.” Dublin responded to their previous Championship defeat to Donegal in 2014 by going on to win the six-in-a-row. McMahon said it’s lazy to simply suggest now that they’ll be similarly energised by losing to Mayo. “That’s the story that will be spun,” he said. “It’s very easy to say: ‘The last time Dublin lost, we went on to win six-in-a-row, so it’s going to happen again’. “But there’s a huge amount of work involved. I was lucky enough to be part of the group that debriefed that game and looked at what we needed to do going forward. “That’s probably what’s going to be done now with this group. With any pain and suffering, or crisis — and you could call it crisis in terms of the Chinese proverbs which say there’s two ways of looking at it, it’s either danger or opportunity — so the crisis right now for Dublin GAA is do we keep losing, or do we actually use the opportunity of loss and the learnings from that to kick on? “And I’m not just talking about the day we lost against Mayo, I’m talking about the whole season.”
|
|
|
Post by homerj on Sept 13, 2021 8:44:37 GMT
mixed feelings after the final now.....maybe we are not as bad as people say that we are and not far off at all.
the other side is, we blew an all ireland with basic schoolboy errors, yet again.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 13, 2021 17:57:35 GMT
Premium Guts and glory is all well and good, but Mayo need to start producing better forwards
Dick Clerkin Expert View 4
September 13 2021 02:30 AM
Admiration and disappointment. The two overriding feelings I felt coming out of Croke Park on Saturday. Admiration for what Tyrone had just achieved, and the manner and style in which they done it. Disappointment with how Mayo let themselves down, with a performance so poor and off their best that it will haunt them for years. There is no point in sugar-coating it. Their error-strewn display on Saturday evening must surely rank as one of the worst from an All-Ireland finalist in memory. The further we move away from Joe McQuillan’s full-time whistle, the worse it gets.
I make no apologies for saying I dearly wanted to see that group of Mayo players win an All-Ireland, and genuinely thought that they would finally do it this year. Having had the pleasure of watching so many of their thrilling contests over the past 10 years, it is impossible not to fall for their infectious charm.
At this stage, however, the patronising ‘Poor Mayo’ mantra has worn thin. Nor is it helping them face up to what they need to do to end their suffering. I am talking about facing up to some hard on-field realities that they need to address. Primarily, the technical and creative limitations of too many of their forward players continues to be an Achilles heel.
Natural forward guile, such as that displayed by Conor McKenna’s deft handpass for Darren McCurry’s match-winning goal. Or the creative instincts that combined Conor Meyler’s inch-perfect pass with Cathal McShane’s deadly first touch. Guts and glory is all well and good, but for a footbal mad-county the size of Mayo, they need to start churning out a higher standard of forward player. Croke Park demands it.
Read More Tyrone executed with a clinical precision what Mayo simply did not have – the ability to execute under pressure Irrespective of these limitations, my tipping them last week, was based on their ability to deliver a high-octane performance that would finally barge them over the line. When Mayo can’t deploy their all-action style of play, they quickly become a distinctly average team, as we bore witness to on Saturday. It wasn’t easy to watch as a neutral, albeit a biased one, so I can only imagine how it must have felt for their loyal supporters.
Huge credit has to go to Tyrone, however, and one of the most impressive aspects of their win was the traditional footballing manner in which they set themselves apart from their predictable opponents. Positive head up football, long-range kicking, high fielding and tough man marking. Qualities any aspiring coach should be trying to instill. Qualities Mayo have sadly lacked enough of on the biggest days. Saturday was no different.
ADVERTISEMENT Snared by the same trap Kerry got caught in last week, on Saturday Mayo relied on short kickouts that resulted in slow congested ball to their forwards. Tyrone’s discipline and tactics never allowed Mayo to find the energy they so desperately need to thrive. Stopping Mayo was only half the job for Dooher and Logan. They still needed to deliver a performance. What a performance it was, one that was more than a year in the making.
Quick Quiz question. Which decade do you think Tyrone have reached the most All-Ireland semi-finals. Between the glory years of 2000-2009, or the supposed barren years between 2010-2019? Answer is, surprisingly, the latter. Five appearances in 2013, 15, 17, 18, 19 vs only four in 2003, 05, 08, 09.
What relevance does this stat have you might ask? Firstly, it rubbishes any notion that this Tyrone team somehow came out of nowhere to win this year’s All-Ireland. Players like Peter Harte, Mattie Donnelly, Ronan McNamee and Niall Morgan have been ploughing their own lonely Sam Maguire furrow, as much as any of the Mayo players over the past number of years. Unloved by the wider GAA community, they just got no credit for it.
The steely reserve shown by Tyrone over the past few months has been forged from recent years of defiance in the face of bitter cold hard criticism from both outside and inside their county. Maybe Mayo could do with the same medicine.
Much has been made of the impact of Tyrone’s new management, and how ‘getting rid’ as so crudely put by many, of Mickey Harte was the makings of the current Tyrone team. Is it true to say that Tyrone would not have won this year’s All-Ireland with Harte still at the helm, but it is also true that they wouldn’t have won it without him.
Consistently rebuilding from the youthful ground up, Harte forged a winning culture and belief in Tyrone, that keeps driving them toward success, even in his absence. Standards set and maintained that keep Sam Maguire as a firm target for any new player coming in the panel. If they win an Ulster title, it was because it was always en route to trying to win another All-Ireland.
No man would have been prouder than Harte to see a group he nurtured for so long, finally get to the destination he first pointed them.
ADVERTISEMENT Brian Dooher and Feargal Logan, will rightly get the plaudits for masterminding what was a most unlikely All-Ireland In hindsight, they were handed a much stronger hand than many credited. Tyrone are deserved champions, and stand now as a benchmark for what a sizeable number of counties can aspire to.
Counties, my own included, will be queueing up to have a crack at them next year. Until then they can deservedly enjoy a winter of content. The manner in which they won this year, has brought football to a good place and they deserve huge credit for that. Comhghairdeachas.
Read More
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 13, 2021 17:59:05 GMT
Thought provoking stat from Dick saying Tyrone played in more semi finals in the last decade that the previous one.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Oct 3, 2021 10:23:58 GMT
Premium Jack O’Connor knows exactly where the blame will be placed if Kerry fall short next year
Colm O'Rourke Returning boss will serve under pressure knowing that if Kerry don’t win next year, fingers will be pointed at the manager’s door again
October 02 2021 09:30 PM
Jack O’Connor hopes that third time is just as lucky as the other two as he takes charge in Kerry again. He won’t be playing golf in any invitational tournaments in Kildare for a while after departing with indecent haste, having agreed to stay another year in the midlands. The road to hell is paved with good intentions but could anyone blame him for wanting back to his own? Jack, like Oscar Wilde, could resist anything but temptation and the Kerry job is the best or worst gig in town. Win and it is treated as being expected, lose and all hell breaks loose. Just ask Peter Keane. He could hardly be termed a failure but anything less than Sam is looked on as such in Kerry. Especially as there were underage All-Ireland winners falling out of trees in every parish and town. What could go wrong?
Well, quite a lot really. The step up is massive and few underage talents make it. Kerry have a few outstanding players but no more than that. The task Jack O’Connor faces is to make the existing players better as nobody is suggesting that the talent pool outside this year`s squad is very deep.
The man above fell three times, Jack has stumbled briefly with Kerry in a past life and now looks to right that perceived wrong. That, of course, would be to beat Tyrone on the way to an All-Ireland title. If it was in the final that would be the bonus.
In the past county team managers were either teachers or priests. Most of the former group don’t have the time or the inclination and there are none of the latter group left. So management now suits someone with plenty of time, preferably a retired or self-made man who does not need to work much. Strange then that the GAA is not a country for old men. Compare that to managers of American football teams or other sports in the land of the free and there is a big age imbalance. They value experience of life as well as sport. Of course most of those in the GAA who could manage don’t want it so it is left to the rest.
These days a county team manager would need to run an employment agency before taking up a role. His backroom team will include many paid positions — like trainers, physios, doctors, nutritionists, psychologists, masseurs, S&C experts, lifestyle advisers . . . the list is almost endless as the Dubs at their height can testify to. Another bus is needed for the entourage. I wonder who decided who travelled on which bus?
So the GAA is an industry. There are many small businesses making nice profits who employ less than what is involved in a county set-up. Budgets are a moveable feast and there is pure waste in a lot of places. There is no chance of success of any kind for the vast majority in the championship so many young, progressive managers get a free ride with some lower-ranked counties. It’s a good learning experience, with a little dosh and a chance to test the water and see if they can swim with the sharks.
Yet in reality a lot of these counties are putting the cart before the horse. Throwing money at a senior county team without building the foundation is the same as burying the money in a bog. It just sinks. A bottom-up approach is needed. County board chairmen usually want success of any kind on their watch so long term planning means next year.
That process of sane management is being muddied more and more by social media. That venom was once again on display in Mayo after the final, Kerry seem to have less public bile on view. Yet there is something wrong with a society which allows people abuse others with such ugliness without having to openly display their name.
If all users of social media had to publish their name and address it would tidy things up for the better — not just for sport but all public discourse. That change can only take place at Government level and it is amazing that although there is the occasional outcry, that such tolerance exists of the cowards who abuse online. We seem to have become accepting of such low standards. Continuous and constant prosecutions is the only answer.
If Jack O’Connor has jumped back on the merry-go-round the club scene will be in full swing again in a couple of months. Anyone who does not win their championship will have a close look at the role of the manager. I am quivering in my boots. Well not really.
I always tell the lads at club level to tell me when they are fed up and I would leave without any row. It is a healthy outlook.
Covid did put manners on a lot of clubs too in terms of big spends. Without any income many clubs went back to their own and in the vast majority of cases it probably made no difference. There is only one winner at every grade, it does not mean the rest are losers. For some clubs where battling against the tide of falling numbers is their biggest enemy, taking part is a major achievement.
In Kerry there are bigger considerations. Jack O’Connor knows them and eight years without an All-Ireland is like Moses searching in the desert for a drink of water. In reality Kerry have only to beat three or four teams, Tyrone, Dublin, Mayo, maybe Donegal, the list is fairly short. To do this he badly needs two good backs who know how to mark not just look good on the ball, he certainly needs a midfielder and a dog in the forwards to take a bit of heat off David Clifford.
It is not an impossible task by any means, in fact it is quite likely to happen. However, Jack O’Connor will serve under plenty of pressure knowing full well that if Kerry don’t win next year, at least part if not all of it will be the manager’s fault. That part is never mentioned at the interview. It is in the fine print but all applicants knows it is there.
|
|
|
Post by southward on Oct 3, 2021 12:55:19 GMT
Premium Jack O’Connor knows exactly where the blame will be placed if Kerry fall short next year Colm O'Rourke Returning boss will serve under pressure knowing that if Kerry don’t win next year, fingers will be pointed at the manager’s door again October 02 2021 09:30 PM........ The man above fell three times, Jack has stumbled briefly with Kerry in a past life and now looks to right that perceived wrong. That, of course, would be to beat Tyrone on the way to an All-Ireland title. If it was in the final that would be the bonus.Get lost, Colm. More of this media bull about Kerry having a complex or needing to prove something when it comes to Tyrone. Still harping back to the noughties' games while ignoring the fact that Kerry won their 3 championship meetings prior to this year. Tyrone worthy champions this year and good luck to them. But it means nothing come next summer and historically they've disappeared the year after an AI win anyway. As for Kerry, if we win Sam next year, I don't care if we beat Mayo, Dublin and Tyrone or if it's Cork, Longford and Kildare along the way.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 3, 2021 16:44:24 GMT
Premium Jack O’Connor knows exactly where the blame will be placed if Kerry fall short next year Colm O'Rourke Returning boss will serve under pressure knowing that if Kerry don’t win next year, fingers will be pointed at the manager’s door again October 02 2021 09:30 PM........ The man above fell three times, Jack has stumbled briefly with Kerry in a past life and now looks to right that perceived wrong. That, of course, would be to beat Tyrone on the way to an All-Ireland title. If it was in the final that would be the bonus.Get lost, Colm. More of this media bull about Kerry having a complex or needing to prove something when it comes to Tyrone. Still harping back to the noughties' games while ignoring the fact that Kerry won their 3 championship meetings prior to this year. Tyrone worthy champions this year and good luck to them. But it means nothing come next summer and historically they've disappeared the year after an AI win anyway. As for Kerry, if we win Sam next year, I don't care if we beat Mayo, Dublin and Tyrone or if it's Cork, Longford and Kildare along the way. Colm is coming out with some strange words re Tyrone - is he presenting medals for them or what? Still he fairly calls things, e.g. the farce that is the GPA.
|
|
|
Post by markisback on Oct 20, 2021 13:58:16 GMT
Premium Jack O’Connor knows exactly where the blame will be placed if Kerry fall short next year Colm O'Rourke Returning boss will serve under pressure knowing that if Kerry don’t win next year, fingers will be pointed at the manager’s door again October 02 2021 09:30 PM........ The man above fell three times, Jack has stumbled briefly with Kerry in a past life and now looks to right that perceived wrong. That, of course, would be to beat Tyrone on the way to an All-Ireland title. If it was in the final that would be the bonus.Get lost, Colm. More of this media bull about Kerry having a complex or needing to prove something when it comes to Tyrone. Still harping back to the noughties' games while ignoring the fact that Kerry won their 3 championship meetings prior to this year. Tyrone worthy champions this year and good luck to them. But it means nothing come next summer and historically they've disappeared the year after an AI win anyway. As for Kerry, if we win Sam next year, I don't care if we beat Mayo, Dublin and Tyrone or if it's Cork, Longford and Kildare along the way. I agree entirely. I can’t see any good reason why a county with more AI wins than any other county would have a complex about any other county.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 21, 2021 6:10:34 GMT
Get lost, Colm. More of this media bull about Kerry having a complex or needing to prove something when it comes to Tyrone. Still harping back to the noughties' games while ignoring the fact that Kerry won their 3 championship meetings prior to this year. Tyrone worthy champions this year and good luck to them. But it means nothing come next summer and historically they've disappeared the year after an AI win anyway. As for Kerry, if we win Sam next year, I don't care if we beat Mayo, Dublin and Tyrone or if it's Cork, Longford and Kildare along the way. I agree entirely. I can’t see any good reason why a county with more AI wins than any other county would have a complex about any other county. Maybe back in the 2000s but between then and this year Kerry have had not too much difficulty beating Tyrone in championship.
|
|