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Post by taggert on Aug 31, 2021 15:26:21 GMT
www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0830/1243759-mayo-must-avoid-running-into-trouble-osullivan/"I couldn’t believe how poor Kerry were in their decision-making. There were scores left behind where there could have been goals but there definitely points. "In the first quarter against Cork, I felt Kerry were impatient and too eager to get goals and throughout the whole game (on Saturday) they came in from angles where the shot at goal probably wasn’t on and there were turnovers. "But I also couldn’t get over how Tyrone kept up that level of intensity for so long. "They looked like they were preparing for months. They defended in numbers and selflessly.
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Post by veteran on Aug 31, 2021 16:44:38 GMT
Like you Taggart I am intrigued by the severe cramping sustained by our players, especially David, towards the end of normal time. With ten minutes to go , David was unable to walk and the Tyrone goalie wisely started taking short kicks out to his man. I was shouting like a madman to take him off not realising that we had used our complement of subs. Jason, who had a fine game in normal time , was another victim. How did this arise ? Now when Kerry are beaten I tend to avoid the media because in the aftermath of a defeat life is sad enough without having to endure potshots from every angle. Has this issue been addressed in any media outlet? Somebody suggested the severe cramp maybe due to mineral/ water imbalance but sweet Lord we now have two water breaks . Did players bother to replenish their fluid status or were the wrong fluids being used, On the other hand maybe this water break is a farce and has outlived its usefulness in any case. This cramp issue certainly robbed us of our pivotal player and I wish somebody would offer an apologia.
Terrace Talk is a very good programme and perhaps they could have had somebody on with special expertise in that area.. I only heard the start of last night’s programme and maybe they discussed it later on.
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Post by kerryborder on Aug 31, 2021 16:47:20 GMT
I haven't contributed here for a while. I have always read the many contributions and there is no doubting the sincerity of each one. For what it's worth I thought T ó Sé was spot on on tsg. Whatever way you look at it between u20/21 and senior the evolution of the 5 in a row minor panels has been poor. I recognise there will be many and varied reasons for this but it does need to be examined.maybe its a case of toomany riches and expectations being out of kilter with reality. No doubt we have beautiful footballers but on the evidence of Saturday you would have to say Tyrone epitomise teamin it's fullest sense. I could not begrudge them. They had the desire and hunger. We had it also but our application was poor to say the least. I was happy for D Mórán. I have been a critic in the past and we could have done with him in extra time.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 31, 2021 16:48:47 GMT
Like you Taggart I am intrigued by the severe cramping sustained by our players, especially David, towards the end of normal time. With ten minutes to go , David was unable to walk and the Tyrone goalie wisely started taking short kicks out to his man. I was shouting like a madman to take him off not realising that we had used our complement of subs. Jason, who had a fine game in normal time , was another victim. How did this arise ? Now when Kerry are beaten I tend to avoid the media because in the aftermath of a defeat life is sad enough without having to endure potshots from every angle. Has this issue been addressed in any media outlet? Somebody suggested the severe cramp maybe due to mineral/ water imbalance but sweet Lord we now have two water breaks . Did players bother to replenish their fluid status or were the wrong fluids being used, On the other hand maybe this water break is a farce and has outlived its usefulness in any case. This cramp issue certainly robbed us of our pivotal player and I wish somebody would offer an apologia. Terrace Talk is a very good programme and perhaps they could have had somebody on with special expertise in that area.. I only heard the start of last night’s programme and maybe they discussed it later on. There is a suggestion that D Clifford had a calf injury rather than a cramp. Cannot confirm.
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Post by taggert on Aug 31, 2021 17:21:58 GMT
Think it was the O'Shea "pass" for the goal attempt and the entanglement (legitimate) with Niall Morgan that did for him. Stand corrected on that tho.
The 2 Davids were colossal losses in extra time, largely because they were two of the very few who were performing at their best for Kerry on the day. The Foley cramping/injury was also catastrophic as they made hay in those moments.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 31, 2021 17:33:17 GMT
Think it was the O'Shea "pass" for the goal attempt and the entanglement (legitimate) with Niall Morgan that did for him. Stand corrected on that tho. The 2 Davids were colossal losses in extra time, largely because they were two of the very few who were performing at their best for Kerry on the day. The Foley cramping/injury was also catastrophic as they made hay in those moments. Just wondering did we withdraw David Moran prematurely? I really didn’t think he was flagging & he was hoovering up a lot of ball - as you say, a massive loss when the clock was running down.
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Post by veteran on Aug 31, 2021 17:54:04 GMT
It may well have been a calf injury that David sustained, on the other hand he seemed to be in trouble with both legs which would suggest cramp. I suppose we will find out some time.
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,857
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Post by peanuts on Aug 31, 2021 19:01:42 GMT
It may well have been a calf injury that David sustained, on the other hand he seemed to be in trouble with both legs which would suggest cramp. I suppose we will find out some time. There was a clip of him in extra time putting an ice pack on his quad. He may have gotten a dead leg from the clash with Morgan.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 31, 2021 19:13:04 GMT
Like you Taggart I am intrigued by the severe cramping sustained by our players, especially David, towards the end of normal time. With ten minutes to go , David was unable to walk and the Tyrone goalie wisely started taking short kicks out to his man. I was shouting like a madman to take him off not realising that we had used our complement of subs. Jason, who had a fine game in normal time , was another victim. How did this arise ? Now when Kerry are beaten I tend to avoid the media because in the aftermath of a defeat life is sad enough without having to endure potshots from every angle. Has this issue been addressed in any media outlet? Somebody suggested the severe cramp maybe due to mineral/ water imbalance but sweet Lord we now have two water breaks . Did players bother to replenish their fluid status or were the wrong fluids being used, On the other hand maybe this water break is a farce and has outlived its usefulness in any case. This cramp issue certainly robbed us of our pivotal player and I wish somebody would offer an apologia. Terrace Talk is a very good programme and perhaps they could have had somebody on with special expertise in that area.. I only heard the start of last night’s programme and maybe they discussed it later on. There is a suggestion that D Clifford had a calf injury rather than a cramp. Cannot confirm. Thats what i thought too...he got injured when Morgan and he jumped to connect with SOS fist pass. Was DC down with cramp before that?
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Post by taggert on Aug 31, 2021 19:57:55 GMT
Think it was the O'Shea "pass" for the goal attempt and the entanglement (legitimate) with Niall Morgan that did for him. Stand corrected on that tho. The 2 Davids were colossal losses in extra time, largely because they were two of the very few who were performing at their best for Kerry on the day. The Foley cramping/injury was also catastrophic as they made hay in those moments. Just wondering did we withdraw David Moran prematurely? I really didn’t think he was flagging & he was hoovering up a lot of ball - as you say, a massive loss when the clock was running down. At the water break in the second half, a number of Kerry players were lying on the ground getting hamstrings and calves rubbed by masseurs and physios. David Moran was one of them. I don't know if his withdrawal was pre-planned or if fatigue/injury/cramp took hold. He was a huge loss as Jack Barry was having a day to forget and that would worsen as the evening wore on. David had been stationed in front of the half back line and Tyrone waltzed through us after he departed - the token hand outstretched by some Kerry players offering token resistance to repel Tyrone attacks. As Diarmuid kept Tyrones defence honest David was doing likewise for Tyrones half forwards. All ifs and buts now but I do hope Moran can be persuaded to give 1 more year and hopefully help Joe and Diarmuid O'Connor forge a formidable midfield pairing of the future. His experience and nous would be priceless.
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Post by clubman on Aug 31, 2021 21:07:49 GMT
There is a suggestion that D Clifford had a calf injury rather than a cramp. Cannot confirm. Thats what i thought too...he got injured when Morgan and he jumped to connect with SOS fist pass. Was DC down with cramp before that? Thats certainly how it appeared to me also. he seemed to come off the worse when he jumped with Morgan although tbf I dont think there was any dirt involved from the keeper
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Aug 31, 2021 21:24:07 GMT
Thats what i thought too...he got injured when Morgan and he jumped to connect with SOS fist pass. Was DC down with cramp before that? Thats certainly how it appeared to me also. he seemed to come off the worse when he jumped with Morgan although tbf I dont think there was any dirt involved from the keeper No dirt at all. We'd have complained if Ryan didn't do the same if the roles were reversed. I'm trying to put off watching it again until after the final, but does anyone know what happened with Stephen O'Brien in the second half when he was fouled inside the 21 running in on goal? It ended up a free out, I was stumped at the time.
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Post by clarinman on Aug 31, 2021 21:42:24 GMT
Thats certainly how it appeared to me also. he seemed to come off the worse when he jumped with Morgan although tbf I dont think there was any dirt involved from the keeper No dirt at all. We'd have complained if Ryan didn't do the same if the roles were reversed. I'm trying to put off watching it again until after the final, but does anyone know what happened with Stephen O'Brien in the second half when he was fouled inside the 21 running in on goal? It ended up a free out, I was stumped at the time. Stephen grabbed the defender's arm and pulled him to the ground. Tried to con the ref but didn't get away with it.
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Post by veteran on Aug 31, 2021 21:59:46 GMT
Thats certainly how it appeared to me also. he seemed to come off the worse when he jumped with Morgan although tbf I dont think there was any dirt involved from the keeper No dirt at all. We'd have complained if Ryan didn't do the same if the roles were reversed. I'm trying to put off watching it again until after the final, but does anyone know what happened with Stephen O'Brien in the second half when he was fouled inside the 21 running in on goal? It ended up a free out, I was stumped at the time. I was very close to that Stephen O’Brien incident and I was convinced we were going to get a free. What appeared to happen was as Stephen was careering in the Tyrone player put his arms on him and appeared to drag him down. However the referee interpreted it that in fact Stephen clamped the Tyrone man’s arm under his arm and pulled the Tyrone man down with him. Now there is doubt the tackled player sometimes does but it is rarely picked up. However , the infuriating thing is that sometime later Kieran McGeary , coming out with the ball , was involved in a similar incident where he seemed to clamp the arm of the tackling Kerry player and drag him to the ground. The result this time ? A free out to Tyrone. Consistency! Crucial decisions when the game is on a knife edge.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Aug 31, 2021 22:05:01 GMT
Just wondering did we withdraw David Moran prematurely? I really didn’t think he was flagging & he was hoovering up a lot of ball - as you say, a massive loss when the clock was running down. At the water break in the second half, a number of Kerry players were lying on the ground getting hamstrings and calves rubbed by masseurs and physios. David Moran was one of them. I don't know if his withdrawal was pre-planned or if fatigue/injury/cramp took hold. He was a huge loss as Jack Barry was having a day to forget and that would worsen as the evening wore on. David had been stationed in front of the half back line and Tyrone waltzed through us after he departed - the token hand outstretched by some Kerry players offering token resistance to repel Tyrone attacks. As Diarmuid kept Tyrones defence honest David was doing likewise for Tyrones half forwards. All ifs and buts now but I do hope Moran can be persuaded to give 1 more year and hopefully help Joe and Diarmuid O'Connor forge a formidable midfield pairing of the future. His experience and nous would be priceless. What became of Joe o Connor ?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 31, 2021 22:08:30 GMT
Just wanted to comment that the on field behaviour of the Tyrone players, to me, did not leave a nasty taste in the mouth.
While I usually wouldn't comment on what I consider unsporting behaviour, that doesn't mean I don't have these opinions of players, and curse blue murder at the TV.
So for me it is still worth saying that Tyrone did not appear to be a dirty team on Saturday.
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Post by taggert on Aug 31, 2021 22:09:12 GMT
He was in the stand on Sat. Part of the extended panel. Will see him in league action next season surely - needs games / experience at Kerry senior level but is a very physical and athletic player that offers real hope. Could be the ying to Diarmuid O'Connors yang but as always the proof will be in the pudding....
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mike70
Senior Member
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Post by mike70 on Aug 31, 2021 22:13:11 GMT
Lots of analysis these last few days, some suggesting we had a great fight back and we only lost by a point, indeed we did, but the reality is we should never have been in that position , we are a 5 point better team than Tyrone, we have better footballers of that their is no doubt , so what happened Saturday. I have said all season that this Kerry team looked the fittest I have ever seen, in hindsight we were just too far ahead of all others on our fitness trajectory , driven by our defeat to cork last year and in an effort to make amends the boys put in a huge effort over the winter but as our fitness curve peaked and started falling , others were rising , so it looks like we got our timing wrong , don’t forget last weekend was meant to be all ireland final week. As the fitness levels waned under pressure, it also brings the mental drain which compounds the level of effort. I also believe we were a one trick pony on our tactics and when the plan did not work we had no plan B, as was obvious on Saturday as we consistently took the ball into contact and got turned over. I also agree that we entered the game, not being tried and tested , this raises the question about our overall panel quality, back in the day kerry A v B games is where you would literally lose the shirt off your back, so for me it’s not all about the quality of our opposition , but the lack of quality in our squad, both Dublin in football and Kilkenny in hurling use to walk thru Leinster but were prepared for semi finals via their own A v B games, it would seem our extended squad lack quality to test our starting 15 . So for me the better team lost because the opposition seemed fitter, had a game plan that neutralised kerry plan, and yes seemed like a more unified bunch in pursuit of their goal.
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Post by taggert on Aug 31, 2021 22:13:41 GMT
Just wanted to comment that the on field behaviour of the Tyrone players, to me, did not leave a nasty taste in the mouth. While I usually wouldn't comment on what I consider unsporting behaviour, that doesn't mean I don't have these opinions of players, and curse blue murder at the TV. So for me it is still worth saying that Tyrone did not appear to be a dirty team on Saturday. I would agree. I think Colm Kavanagh put it that they played on the edge in such a way that they just "stopped short of fouling." One feature of their defensive setup is how they use the sideline and endline to box players in - trap them, if you like, into turning back from the line into big hits and then cough up possession. Very well orchestrated and executed. We were very naive in that tango of course.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 31, 2021 22:19:32 GMT
Just wanted to comment that the on field behaviour of the Tyrone players, to me, did not leave a nasty taste in the mouth. While I usually wouldn't comment on what I consider unsporting behaviour, that doesn't mean I don't have these opinions of players, and curse blue murder at the TV. So for me it is still worth saying that Tyrone did not appear to be a dirty team on Saturday. Tyrone played it like they played v Monaghan.... ferociously hard but nothing dirty.
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 31, 2021 22:55:26 GMT
Okay, I've just realised this; Cristiano Ronaldo signed for UTD in 2003. Tyrone beat Kerry in AI Semi Final on their way to winning a novel pairing AI Final in 2003. Kerry won the AI the following season. Cristiano Ronaldo signed for UTD in 2021. Tyrone beat Kerry in an AI Semi Final to play in an novel pairing AI Final in 2021. If Tyrone win, coincidence? YES, we may or may not win the AI next year like every other team in the country. Sure I said the same last year after losing a 5 in a row final and getting knocked out to a late Cork goal(like 82/83), but we haven't seen the beginning of a 3 in a row this year.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2021 8:53:00 GMT
DARRAGH O'SE
We’re hurting in Kerry this week.
It’s one thing to lose an All-Ireland semi-final when you’re outclassed or when winning it wasn’t really on the cards. It’s another when you lose one like this, when it’s a game that you could have built a lead in by being a bit more ruthless in front of goal and a bit less naive in your approach. Those are the worst losses to absorb.
Tyrone fully deserved their victory. They were so much more attuned to the needs of the day, they were far better at understanding what Kerry would bring than vice-versa and they were every bit as merciless as you have to be when their goal chances came.
And yet, Kerry only lost by a point after extra-time in a game where they got so much wrong. That tells you it was a game that was there for the winning.
The Kerry players lacked nothing in effort or spirit or hunger. They left every bit of themselves out there. To come back from that terrible start in extra-time and score five points to get back within a kick of a ball distance was really admirable. They have no reason to hang their heads – they gave it everything. Nobody down here faults the application or the commitment of the Kerry players.
But the simple truth of the matter is that Kerry played a game that suited Tyrone on Saturday afternoon. Take away everything else – the missed goal chances, the injury to David Clifford at a crucial time, all the Covid stuff, everything else. Ignore every bit of that and ask yourself what sort of game Tyrone would have been hoping for coming down to Croke Park.
Did they want one where Kerry were careful with possession, moving it around patiently and stretching the pitch like Dublin have done to them with such success in the past? Or did they want one where Kerry ran at them in single file and tried to play intricate passes around them in tight spaces? Door Number Two, every time.
Surely in the Kerry camp for the past fortnight, their own siege mentality should have been building. They should have been getting crankier and crankier at being made to wait Never solve the other crowd’s problem for them. Kerry had long enough to analyse what Tyrone do well. They protect their full-back line. They keep teams where they can see them. They leave you space down the flanks to kick the ball into and then they attack you there and try to turn you over. Above all, they try to draw you into a messy, chaotic game where everything is down and dirty.
In all the slagging off of the Dubs for those periods where they keep possession for so long, it got a bit forgotten why they came up with it in the first place. It was first and foremost devised with blanket defence teams in mind. The whole idea behind a blanket defence is to send players down blind alleys, to isolate them and to force turnovers. Dublin refused to be drawn into that.
They basically wanted to take back control of who blinks first. If you’re an attacking team and you lose patience and try to break a line that isn’t for breaking, you are the one who has blinked. Dublin decided that they would hold onto the ball and move it around until eventually someone in the blanket defence team blinks and goes for an intercept or a tackle that the Dubs see coming.
No excuses Tyrone were only delighted to see Kerry coming and trying to play through them. Clifford looked unplayable in the first 10 minutes – and he was – but nobody else was getting much traction. Instead, they were getting turned over time and time again. Why would you try to play that game against Tyrone? Why would you give them what they want?
Kerry can have no excuses. I’ve heard people try and use the Covid thing and say that Kerry couldn’t really know what to expect from Tyrone but I don’t buy that at all. They had to know that if Tyrone were coming down to play the game, they were coming in the best shape possible. There’s no way Kerry should have expected anything less.
In fact, it should have been the perfect motivating factor for Kerry. I know everyone likes to make out that Tyrone thrive on a siege mentality but, to me, that’s another cop-out. There’s no monopoly on that kind of thing. It’s not a finite resource. There’s plenty of siege to go around if you want to make use of it.
Surely in the Kerry camp for the past fortnight, their own siege mentality should have been building. They should have been getting crankier and crankier at being made to wait. Not in public, obviously – you have to play nice. But amongst themselves, they should have been thick and cranky at having their championship rhythms and plans upset. Tyrone should have felt the full force of it in that opening quarter.
But after Clifford’s opening point, the first thing Tyrone did the next time Kerry had the ball was show Dara Moynihan over to the sideline, where Frank Burns just shouldered him out for a line-ball.
Burns literally pointed at the sideline and instead of turning around and recycling the ball, Moynihan took the bait and tried to run him down the line and Burns forced him out. That sort of thing happened over and over again. And every time it did, Tyrone got that bit more comfortable in the game.
If Tyrone are pressuring you all over the pitch but they’re letting you get your kick-outs away, you have to be able to cop that there’s some reason for it The game was won and lost in close combat situations. Tyrone’s skill-set was way ahead of Kerry’s in that arena. Every team practices those tight, suffocating game situations where you have to find a way to keep possession even when you’re bottled up. Tyrone’s ability to get a handpass away to a teammate even though they were being manhandled was far above what Kerry were able to do in the same tight spot.
So much of what Kerry did played into Tyrone’s hands. The kick-outs are one of the best examples.
People went on afterwards about the fact that Kerry had a 100 per cent success rate from kick-outs. But sure of course they did! Tyrone didn’t once try to stop them going short. Shane Ryan was never under any pressure to find a man. Tyrone were happy for him to do it. So why, if you are Kerry, would you keep making them happy?
That’s the sort of thing you have to be able to work out in real time. If Tyrone are pressuring you all over the pitch but they’re letting you get your kick-outs away, you have to be able to cop that there’s some reason for it.
And the longer the game went on, the more obvious it became – they were happy to tire out the Kerry defenders by making them do the dirty work of bringing the ball out every single time.
Wasted chance I couldn’t for the life of me work out why Kerry kept playing into their hands like that. Especially when David Moran and the others around the middle third were doing so well on Niall Morgan’s long kick-outs. If the Tyrone midfield was dominating the long ones, fair enough. But Kerry were getting joy on the Tyrone kick-outs and still persisting with the short one themselves. No wonder so many Kerry players went down with cramp!
Simple things like this feed into the feeling of a wasted chance around Kerry this week. Tyrone were much smarter in what they did throughout. They worked the referee better. I thought David Coldrick had a poor game, the sort of display a fella puts in when he’s trying to get noticed for the final.
The Tyrone physios were on and off so many times I thought they’d be in danger of cramping up themselves. Coldrick didn’t seem to be able to keep tabs on them. But they fairly took the sting out of the black cards all the same. I don’t hold that against Tyrone at all. They were tuned in to what the game situation called for.
Tyrone have brilliant footballers but they also have smart footballers. They knew what their game plan was all about But the Kerry players needed to be leaning on the referee when all this was going on. There are games within games – everyone knows that. If you’re not in his ear, you can be sure the other crowd will be. You can’t be naive enough to leave him to his own devices. Adding on the time is all fine and dandy but a 50/50 free wouldn’t go astray either. You have to pressure him into feeling like you might be getting shortchanged, regardless of whether or not it’s the case.
I’m not saying it’s big or clever. I’m saying you have to do what you have to do. And you especially have to do it when you’re playing Tyrone. They know every trick in the book – they invented half of them – so you have to meet them on the same battlefield with the same mindset. Because if you don’t you concede an advantage. It’s only a small thing but it can make a difference in a game that is as close as this one was.
Tyrone have brilliant footballers but they also have smart footballers. They knew what their game plan was all about. It wasn’t just running Kerry down blind alleys and turning them over, it was punishing them with scores. Two of the three Tyrone goals came from turnovers. Feargal Logan and Brian Dooher couldn’t have been happier with how their game plan worked out and how their players implemented it for them.
Black mark Obviously enough, there’s a lot of talk about Peter Keane in Kerry at the moment. The one thing nobody can say is that the players didn’t play for him. There’s no talk of trouble in the camp or anything like that. He has been there three years and the squad obviously believe in him and what he has tried to do. That’s not always guaranteed.
But this is a black mark against the management. Not so much the defeat – any team can lose a game, especially an All-Ireland semi-final against a good side. But the fact that Kerry played the game on Tyrone’s terms is what makes it tough to get over.
And the fact that there was no adjustment during the game, no realisation of what the terms and conditions were. That’s all hard to ignore.
At least we have David Clifford. He was incredible on Saturday and he gives us all hope for the future. But down here, we’re hurting right now. And we will be for a while.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2021 9:00:33 GMT
Thats Darragh's article from last week. Not much in it about what Kerry need to do to combat the Tyrone game plan. That game plan was there for all to see in the ulster final. Tomas had no such forsight either in any of the pieces he wrote before the game. Darragh oSe I was asked one of the days there whether people in Kerry have sympathy for the plight of Tyrone with all this Covid stuff. Or whether there’s much suspicion around the place about how they’re handling it. I hummed and hawed for a minute and said something along the lines of how you would naturally have a good bit of sympathy for them because nobody wants things to turn out the way they have and so on. But I’m not sure he bought it. Of course there’s suspicion around the place! This is Kerry we’re talking about. More to the point, this is Tyrone we’re talking about! Nobody in the GAA thrives on a cause like Tyrone do. It’s in their DNA. And nobody in the GAA is more ready to see conspiracy theories in what Tyrone do than Kerry. That’s just reality. You would find very few Kerry people, for example, who believe that Tyrone haven’t been able to have collective training. Very few. There wouldn’t be a lot of evidence for their beliefs but that’s not really the issue. The issue is that when it comes right down to it, Kerry people wouldn’t put anything past Tyrone. As a fella said to me the other day, ‘You’d hardly believe their radio!’ Tyrone did exactly the right thing. They realised that they had the GAA over a barrel. They knew – as everyone knew – that the GAA was going to find a way to play an All-Ireland semi-final It probably isn’t very fair on Tyrone to be thinking this way but that’s where it is with a lot of Kerry people. There’s no point pretending otherwise. Myself, I’d be a bit more fair-minded about the whole thing. There’s no doubt in my mind that Tyrone had a problem and they needed extra time to get over it. I always try to look at these things from a player’s point of view. If you’re down a few bodies and you haven’t been able to get everyone you want to training, you will go pursue whatever avenue is available to you. All you care about – all you can afford to ever care about – is getting your best team on the pitch in the best shape. I think Tyrone did exactly the right thing. They realised that they had the GAA over a barrel. They knew – as everyone knew – that the GAA was going to find a way to play an All-Ireland semi-final. The Government put up the millions for last year’s championship and the GAA will probably have to go looking again at the end of this one. It was always going to be nearly impossible to turn down the revenue from 25,000 paying into a semi-final. It’s the right solution for everybody. The GAA gets the money – and it’s badly needed after going so long without crowds. Tyrone get their extra fortnight to prepare, allowing them to send a team worthy of the name down to play. Whatever people say about how they should have been forced to play it, if they don’t have the bodies, they don’t have the bodies. Sending a load of under-20s and some club players down to Dublin to get a hosing would have been no good to anybody. That’s why I think this has worked out as the best solution for Kerry as well. Imagine the game had gone ahead, either on its original date or last Saturday. If Tyrone had been forced to field a team and Kerry had wiped the floor with them, what good would that be? It would mean Kerry going into an All-Ireland final not having a clue of what their real level of form is. At least this way, Saturday will give everybody a better sense of where things stand. If Kerry win against a Tyrone team that has had time to get itself properly prepared, they’ll be in decent enough shape going into an All-Ireland final. If they don’t, we can safely say they weren’t going to beat Mayo anyway. Along with Mayo, they’re one of only two teams that haven’t lost a game all season but people in Kerry are always hard to please The build-up has been tricky for Kerry to navigate, obviously enough. I would imagine that the first quarter on Saturday might be messy enough because it has to be very difficult to judge the preparation in these circumstances. You’re bringing players to the boil and then you’re letting them cool off. But you’re being careful to not let them cool off too much before you bring them back to the boil again. It’s bound to be a real balancing act. And you won’t know if you’ve got it right until 10 minutes into the game. Kerry are in a strange enough place at the minute because I don’t think they’ve got the credit they deserve within the county for anything they’ve done so far. Along with Mayo, they’re one of only two teams that haven’t lost a game all season but people in Kerry are always hard to please. One of the things I love about living in Kerry is that you walk down the street at lunchtime and you’ll have 10 different conversations and they’ll all be about the same thing. There’ll be 10 different opinions too. But in general, the glass will always be half-full. I’ll never forget a conversation I had in the street in Tralee on the Tuesday after Kerry won the 2014 All-Ireland. The final against Donegal wasn’t a great game by anyone’s measure but even so, an All-Ireland is an All-Ireland. You take them any way they come. And yet the first thing out of the mouth of a gentleman I met that day was, “It wasn’t one of Kerry’s better All-Irelands, was it?” I could only burst out laughing. I couldn’t believe he was serious. Where else would you get that kind of attitude? To me, it was a great All-Ireland – they don’t come in the post. And by God, it gets better with every year that has passed since. That’s seven years ago and there’s only a handful of that team still playing. Tell them it wasn’t one of their better All-Irelands and see how far you get. But that’s the way people go on down here sometimes. This year has been no different. Hammer Galway and Tyrone in the league? Sure neither team were at the races when they came down the road. Draw with the Dubs in Thurles? Well, that doesn’t look like such a great result now, does it? Especially since Dublin only scored 10 goals all year and four of them came against Kerry in one game. Paudie Clifford has added a different dimension to the whole thing, stitching everything together and setting the tone by working like a dog And don’t even try to get Kerry people to give the team any credit for winning the Munster championship! Tipperary? Sure they parked the bus. Clare? Probably the best team Kerry have faced yet but still a good bit off. Cork? Ah now, come on. But I think Kerry deserve way more credit than they’re getting. They have dealt with everything that was put in front of them, they haven’t really wobbled - apart from that shaky defensive performance against Dublin in the league. You can’t ask much more from them than what they’ve produced. And most importantly, their core players have been very good. David Clifford and Seán O’Shea have led the attack really well, David Moran has been in great form in midfield. And Paudie Clifford has added a different dimension to the whole thing, stitching everything together and setting the tone by working like a dog. Paul Murphy is coming back into form too. Tyrone have improved under the new management. They are expressing themselves that bit more. It’s been very noticeable that their kick-out strategy has changed significantly, in that Niall Morgan now has big men to aim at around the middle and they’re not afraid to go looking for them. I always got the sense towards the latter half of the Mickey Harte reign that Tyrone were so regimented in their way of playing that they were nearly wasting Morgan’s kicking ability by making him go short so much of the time. But now they have Brian Kennedy and Conn Kilpatrick – both of them big men well able to fetch high ball – and Morgan is going looking for them. It doesn’t always work but it gives them a good platform when it does. And they’ve come through the rough and tumble of an Ulster championship to get here. They’ve beaten the last three winners of the Ulster title to do so. They saw out the Ulster final against Monaghan, which was no small thing on the first big day of the Dooher-Logan regime. And they did it despite Logan not being able to go to the game and being down four players. Any way you look at it, they’re a serious outfit. But in the end, whatever sympathy or suspicions anyone has, the one thing we can all agree on is that their build-up to this semi-final has been badly interrupted. At the very least, this is far from an ideal scenario to be carrying into the second biggest game of the year. Ahead of an All-Ireland semi-final, you want to have your ducks in a row a good fortnight out from the game. Tyrone are still having to check their ducks for runny noses the past two weeks. The big factor hanging over this game and the final is the fact that the Dubs are gone. All three teams left in it have been walking an inch or two taller since last weekend. Mayo deserve every bit of that inch or two and now Kerry and Tyrone have to go and earn it. All three teams can smell glory in a way that hasn’t been available to anybody in the championship for a whole seven years. In the heel of the hunt, I still think Kerry have more quality at their disposal. This is the third year of Peter Keane’s management and all those young players he brought in when he arrived are coming up to their mid-20s now. I think Croke Park suits this Kerry team and the bit of good back-to-school weather will do them no harm either. It all just seems to have set up well for Kerry here. There’s an All-Ireland there to be won. I expect them to take the first step towards it on Saturday.
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tonydorigo
Full Member
yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
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Post by tonydorigo on Sept 1, 2021 10:10:56 GMT
Have rewatched the game and one of the things that is staggering is the tracking of runners and the lack of Kerry ability to stop players in possession or at least slow them down. In a lot of scoring instances there were players back but there was no communication about who was pushing out one or picking up someone. It looked more zonal than man and many of the tyrone points came with multiple kerry players within 3 feet but not getting physical pressure on them.
The best examples of this lack of tracking and communication is with the first mckenna goal and the mcshane goal. Both times players get stepped too easy and kerry are cut open despite having bodies back. O'Beaglaoich failed to slow down an attacker twice during the first goal and then jogged back instead of sprinting back. Second goal found two defenders backpedaling and neither chose to take the passer or Daragh Canavan. It looked like club football tactics where defenders are shoved back into the 45 but have no idea what to do and where to cover.
Lot of lazy tackles, half arsed attempts to stop people but also some good individual displays in defence by the likes of Tom O'Sullivan and Foley. Our lack of cohesion as a unit was the main let down as they got their scores far easier than we got ours.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Sept 1, 2021 10:55:23 GMT
Yes I’ve been hearing the same about the slack defending where multiple players never laid a glove on the oncoming Tyrone forwards especially stark in that first goal very hard to understand that I want to make a point here about the very smart running of the Clock by Tyrone players while one of theirs is on a black card Can we tweak the 10 min rule to only include 10 min of live play so that while the clock is stopped for a player who injured or feigning injury the 10 min black card clock should also be stopped this way you won’t see too much more farcical situations of players lying down to run the clock . Also when Ben Mc Donal rugby tackled one of our players in the dying moments of the game he was more than happy to take the black And you could see there was multiple Tyrone players willing to do the same Therefore the Black card at that late stage is a deterrent but not enough Give the Black yes for the drag down Rugby tackle but give the opposition 2 added minutes or a free from the 21 That would stop the sheer Mahem at the end of our games none worse than Dublin v Mayo a few years back where about 7 Dublin players literally jumped 7 Mayo receivers While Clarke was taking the final kick out A free from the 21 would stop all that .
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 1, 2021 11:27:13 GMT
Have rewatched the game and one of the things that is staggering is the tracking of runners and the lack of Kerry ability to stop players in possession or at least slow them down. In a lot of scoring instances there were players back but there was no communication about who was pushing out one or picking up someone. It looked more zonal than man and many of the tyrone points came with multiple kerry players within 3 feet but not getting physical pressure on them. The best examples of this lack of tracking and communication is with the first mckenna goal and the mcshane goal. Both times players get stepped too easy and kerry are cut open despite having bodies back. O'Beaglaoich failed to slow down an attacker twice during the first goal and then jogged back instead of sprinting back. Second goal found two defenders backpedaling and neither chose to take the passer or Daragh Canavan. It looked like club football tactics where defenders are shoved back into the 45 but have no idea what to do and where to cover. Lot of lazy tackles, half arsed attempts to stop people but also some good individual displays in defence by the likes of Tom O'Sullivan and Foley. Our lack of cohesion as a unit was the main let down as they got their scores far easier than we got ours. Having Paul Murphy at 6 as I mentioned on Friday was a terrible call. Paul is a 5 and that's it and frankly I'm not sure about there either. Breen should have been 6 in my opinion.
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Post by veteran on Sept 1, 2021 11:44:27 GMT
That is an interesting appointment in Offaly. I did not see the Sunday Game but some people felt he was auditioning for the Kerry job because of his strident critique of Kerry management. That speculation can be laid to rest now. I wish him all the best up there . The experience will enrich his curriculum vitae and perhaps someday he may return to the fold in some capacity, Passion would be an ingredient that would not be lacking in his vicinity.
One has to say Michael Duignan seems to be a very energetic and enterprising chairman . It would be great if their footballers and hurlers were back where they once were. It is hard to believe that a small county , with no city, was top of the pile in football and hurling not too long ago. I sincerely wish them well.
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Post by taggert on Sept 1, 2021 12:28:11 GMT
Have rewatched the game and one of the things that is staggering is the tracking of runners and the lack of Kerry ability to stop players in possession or at least slow them down. In a lot of scoring instances there were players back but there was no communication about who was pushing out one or picking up someone. It looked more zonal than man and many of the tyrone points came with multiple kerry players within 3 feet but not getting physical pressure on them. The best examples of this lack of tracking and communication is with the first mckenna goal and the mcshane goal. Both times players get stepped too easy and kerry are cut open despite having bodies back. O'Beaglaoich failed to slow down an attacker twice during the first goal and then jogged back instead of sprinting back. Second goal found two defenders backpedaling and neither chose to take the passer or Daragh Canavan. It looked like club football tactics where defenders are shoved back into the 45 but have no idea what to do and where to cover. Lot of lazy tackles, half arsed attempts to stop people but also some good individual displays in defence by the likes of Tom O'Sullivan and Foley. Our lack of cohesion as a unit was the main let down as they got their scores far easier than we got ours. Having Paul Murphy at 6 as I mentioned on Friday was a terrible call. Paul is a 5 and that's it and frankly I'm not sure about there either. Breen should have been 6 in my opinion. I agree here. Much of the discourse has been on the tactics Kerry adopted or didn't adopt but there is no doubt that a number of players struggled badly and malfunctioned against the Tyrone group defending and attacking. Begley, Breen, Barry, Moynihan, O'Brien and Geaney really really struggled. Thats a lot of your first 15. While Murphy got on plenty ball in an attacking sense - Tyrone readily facilitated this and invited Kerry defenders into their defensive lair- I felt the defensive D was far too easily punctured through the middle, where Murphy was stationed. The main difference between the teams was how Tyrone did e'thing as a collective whereas Kerry were operating in isolation. Watching Begley, Moynihan, Geaney and Barry lose markers and wander about aimlessly (and sometimes stopping) as the Kerry defenders left minding the house were overrun by marauding Tyrone bodies breaking forward in unison, was terrible to see. We rocked up to Croke Park as if it was going to be a traditional game of ball, man on man, structured play with 6 backs, 2 midfielders and 6 forwards. It was never going to be thus.
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Post by john4 on Sept 1, 2021 13:12:04 GMT
That is an interesting appointment in Offaly. I did not see the Sunday Game but some people felt he was auditioning for the Kerry job because of his strident critique of Kerry management. That speculation can be laid to rest now. I wish him all the best up there . The experience will enrich his curriculum vitae and perhaps someday he may return to the fold in some capacity, Passion would be an ingredient that would not be lacking in his vicinity. One has to say Michael Duignan seems to be a very energetic and enterprising chairman . It would be great if their footballers and hurlers were back where they once were. It is hard to believe that a small county , with no city, was top of the pile in football and hurling not too long ago. I sincerely wish them well. No rugby or soccer in Offaly, which is a huge positive for the Gaa in the county. They will spend Lowry's money wisely on coaching and games development and they will be a power again.
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Post by Kingdomson on Sept 1, 2021 16:49:07 GMT
Have rewatched the game and one of the things that is staggering is the tracking of runners and the lack of Kerry ability to stop players in possession or at least slow them down. In a lot of scoring instances there were players back but there was no communication about who was pushing out one or picking up someone. It looked more zonal than man and many of the tyrone points came with multiple kerry players within 3 feet but not getting physical pressure on them. The best examples of this lack of tracking and communication is with the first mckenna goal and the mcshane goal. Both times players get stepped too easy and kerry are cut open despite having bodies back. O'Beaglaoich failed to slow down an attacker twice during the first goal and then jogged back instead of sprinting back. Second goal found two defenders backpedaling and neither chose to take the passer or Daragh Canavan. It looked like club football tactics where defenders are shoved back into the 45 but have no idea what to do and where to cover. Lot of lazy tackles, half arsed attempts to stop people but also some good individual displays in defence by the likes of Tom O'Sullivan and Foley. Our lack of cohesion as a unit was the main let down as they got their scores far easier than we got ours. Having Paul Murphy at 6 as I mentioned on Friday was a terrible call. Paul is a 5 and that's it and frankly I'm not sure about there either. Breen should have been 6 in my opinion. Exactly and fellas tell you Paul had a good game and in one sense individually he did but as a center back for the team? Paul was good on the ball and picking up some breaks and trying to link play but your center back is first and foremost a dog of war who puts up a roadblock through the middle. We could have done with a John Small type player in there on Saturday. Paul Murphy is no number 6 and the highway through our halfback line was wide open all game - no roadblock and not a hit in sight as Tyrone rampaged through the middle on their way to scoring goals. Tyrone won't find the highway open against the Mayo halfback line, and I strongly fancy Mayo to win the final anyway. Last Saturday could look a lot worse after the 11 September.
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