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Post by dc84 on Sept 1, 2021 18:16:02 GMT
Every game takes on a life of its own the final could be very different I think Tyrone might want a more open game as their forwards are better than mayos. I'm not sure that the same tactics will work there will be no open gate down the middle to Nick goals with Mullins o hora keegan Durcan etc. I'd say it will be low scoring but I fancy mayo they won't be physically bullied like we were thats for sure
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Post by Kingdomson on Sept 1, 2021 19:17:49 GMT
Every game takes on a life of its own the final could be very different I think Tyrone might want a more open game as their forwards are better than mayos. I'm not sure that the same tactics will work there will be no open gate down the middle to Nick goals with Mullins o hora keegan Durcan etc. I'd say it will be low scoring but I fancy mayo they won't be physically bullied like we were thats for sure I fancy Mayo heavily for two reasons, 1) their backs are outstanding and love to defend first and then attack, 2) Mayo are the one side who aren't obsessed like all the rest at running into the scoring zone around the D - they have the balls to regularly take on a shot from distance and the kickers to do it - if you want to get a ball around a wall then shoot over it. They have the right mindset - better to take a shot on and see it go wide than get turned over like our fellas. Tyrone showed a lot of battling qualities reminiscent of the Tyrone teams of old (Mayo can match it) but the Tyrone forwards are no world-beaters and have no where near the quality of their noughties era.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 1, 2021 19:19:20 GMT
The curse is real.
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Post by veteran on Sept 1, 2021 21:12:01 GMT
Just saw John Egan being interviewed after the soccer. He looks so like his great, late dad. The same smile. If Dad had stayed in Sneem perhaps John would have been playing CHB for us last Saturday. Might have made a difference!
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Post by dc84 on Sept 1, 2021 21:33:49 GMT
Just saw John Egan being interviewed after the soccer. He looks so like his great, late dad. The same smile. If Dad had stayed in Sneem perhaps John would have been playing CHB for us last Saturday. Might have made a difference! I was only thinking the same !
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tonydorigo
Full Member
yerra you know yourself shur
Posts: 176
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Post by tonydorigo on Sept 2, 2021 6:57:03 GMT
Have rewatched the game and one of the things that is staggering is the tracking of runners and the lack of Kerry ability to stop players in possession or at least slow them down. In a lot of scoring instances there were players back but there was no communication about who was pushing out one or picking up someone. It looked more zonal than man and many of the tyrone points came with multiple kerry players within 3 feet but not getting physical pressure on them. The best examples of this lack of tracking and communication is with the first mckenna goal and the mcshane goal. Both times players get stepped too easy and kerry are cut open despite having bodies back. O'Beaglaoich failed to slow down an attacker twice during the first goal and then jogged back instead of sprinting back. Second goal found two defenders backpedaling and neither chose to take the passer or Daragh Canavan. It looked like club football tactics where defenders are shoved back into the 45 but have no idea what to do and where to cover. Lot of lazy tackles, half arsed attempts to stop people but also some good individual displays in defence by the likes of Tom O'Sullivan and Foley. Our lack of cohesion as a unit was the main let down as they got their scores far easier than we got ours. Having Paul Murphy at 6 as I mentioned on Friday was a terrible call. Paul is a 5 and that's it and frankly I'm not sure about there either. Breen should have been 6 in my opinion. When the team was named my first thoughts were that Breen would be centre back given the grand canyon sized hole down the centre of the defence against cork while Gavin White seemed to be operating in the centre. I'm all for Gavin attacking and for what he adds to the team this way but not from a centre back position without anyone stepping in to cover the spot. I hope Breen is left there next year to grow into the role and that we have some defensive cohesion at least rather than a Kevin Keegan style attitude of 'you score 5, we'll score 6'.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 2, 2021 9:30:48 GMT
The week of the Munster final a story did the rounds that in the A vs B game the previous Sunday the B team were running though the A team creating a number of goal chances.
A halt was called to proceedings by the captain, who was in the B team, who told everyone that this was exactly what Cork would be doing to them next week and to wake up to it.
Of course maybe this was just a story but in the light of what happened against Tyrone it would not surprise me.
I was probably like a lot of others thought we would get over Tyrone but since Mayo beat Dublin I was worried about the prospect of playing Mayo in a final for this reason alone. Maybe Tyrone just accelerated the inevitable.
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Post by homerj on Sept 2, 2021 10:14:16 GMT
the cork game last november, ultimately played its part in last saturdays defeat.
the management team were (and correctly so) lashed for the negative approach. last saturday and indeed all year, has been the polar oppositite - > all out attack and now the team are being criticised for being too open and not defending as a team. of course its all about getting the balance right but this county has a habit of going completely over board and eventually it gets to the players.
wait and see, next year, will once again be more negative.....
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 2, 2021 12:21:35 GMT
the cork game last november, ultimately played its part in last saturdays defeat. the management team were (and correctly so) lashed for the negative approach. last saturday and indeed all year, has been the polar oppositite - > all out attack and now the team are being criticised for being too open and not defending as a team. of course its all about getting the balance right but this county has a habit of going completely over board and eventually it gets to the players. wait and see, next year, will once again be more negative..... In my opinion the problems with the Cork game last year were; 1. Not converting scorable chances into scores 2. giving away the last two possessions needlessly 3. not defending the last high ball that led to the goal You don't win many games scoring 13 points. Rakes of scores were left behind.
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,687
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 2, 2021 12:45:04 GMT
From a tactical point of view for the winners, the Kerry-Tyrone game was a carbon copy of the 2014 Dublin-Donegal semi-final. Force lots of turnovers with manic defense and blitz counter attack. That goal tally for both teams was the same also: 3-14 to 0-17 in Donegal game. 3-14 to 0-22 in Kerry game.
5 minutes into extra time Tyrone were 3-13 to 0-17 ahead. Kerry managed to make a decent comeback after Tyrone's 3rd goal while Dublin weren't when Donegal's third goal went in.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 2, 2021 14:40:10 GMT
Our mantra now is that like decent Kerrymen we facilitated Tyrone to uphold the integrity of the competition.
They lied through their teeth to beat us.
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Post by homerj on Sept 2, 2021 14:57:59 GMT
In my opinion the problems with the Cork game last year were; 1. Not converting scorable chances into scores 2. giving away the last two possessions needlessly 3. not defending the last high ball that led to the goal You don't win many games scoring 13 points. Rakes of scores were left behind. not alot of differences between Cork and Tyrone games to be honest. we scored 17 the last day on a hot, dry day.....13 on a day with a monsoon, missed alot of goal chances both days, sucker punched by a team with less ability.... high ball dropping short, f*cking up last possesions in both normal and ET..... it is Deja Vu all over again.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
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Post by pillar on Sept 2, 2021 15:46:31 GMT
A question,would the Kerry team of 2021 have won the 2014 Replay vs Mayo in Limerick.I ask cos that game was played in a blood and thunder fashion,hits galore ,a belter...can this current team win a game like that cos Mayo are still playing with that mania,bit like Tyrone..
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 2, 2021 15:46:37 GMT
I have noticed that any comments on social media that do not praise Tyrone for their recent achievement are met with a barrage of venomous rebukes - it seems the world has lost its ability to comment on and question anything with the resultant interfaces descending into polar opposites. Social media has a lot to answer for - having a good discussion with arguments and counter arguments seems to be fast disappearing.
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Post by veteran on Sept 2, 2021 16:12:10 GMT
One thing I notice is that Kerry , over the past year so, tend to concede fewer baby frees. That may or may not be due a latent Donnie Buckley influence.
I know little about Stephen Stack’ managerial capabilities but he did know a thing or two about defending . He was an uncompromising nut playing in the backs for Listowel and Kerry.
Regarding Pat Flanagan, he was very highly rated nationally when he was with Jack, being regarded as one of the innovators in his field. I think he may subsequently have spent a year or two with Cork ? I don’t think that went quite as well as his sojourn with Kerry! I am uncertain as to what he is up to now.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 2, 2021 16:18:13 GMT
I have noticed that any comments on social media that do not praise Tyrone for their recent achievement are met with a barrage of venomous rebukes - it seems the world has lost its ability to comment on and question anything with the resultant interfaces descending into polar opposites. Social media has a lot to answer for - having a good discussion with arguments and counter arguments seems to be fast disappearing. I think they call them 'punishment tweetings'
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 2, 2021 18:07:56 GMT
Anyone else still miserable a week on ?
Mick I know said I hyped them up too much and sure maybe I fell into that trap.
It's just hard to know where we are at now.. I know it was a 1 point loss but it may aswell have been a 10 point loss.
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Post by john4 on Sept 2, 2021 18:50:51 GMT
Anyone else still miserable a week on ? Mick I know said I hyped them up too much and sure maybe I fell into that trap. It's just hard to know where we are at now.. I know it was a 1 point loss but it may aswell have been a 10 point loss. When you step back from everything just for a bit, social media and the like can completely over dramaticise events. Yes we were beaten in a football match that we should have won, We didn't play to our potential, made mistakes, tactics wrong etc. But going by Twitter etc. you'd swear we were hammered out the gate. Everyone loves winners, no one more than the media. You couldn't pick up a paper over the last few years but there'd be a Dublin footballer looking back at you. I haven't heard 1 word about Dublin football in the last 3 weeks, even though they ran one of the All Ireland finalist to extra time. OTB are running 'Power rankings'!!!! WTF. Last week Kerry were ranked 1, and Tyrone 4, today Tyrone are 1 and we are 4. If Tommy's shot went over and we won the penalties I presume we'd still be in first place!! It's BS. The whole lot of it. I'm as disappointed as any Kerry person and a lot of it is vented here, but the cold reality of it is that we have a very good senior football team, as good as what's in the country. We're not miles better than any of the other top counties but we're there.
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Post by dc84 on Sept 2, 2021 19:45:16 GMT
Anyone else still miserable a week on ? Mick I know said I hyped them up too much and sure maybe I fell into that trap. It's just hard to know where we are at now.. I know it was a 1 point loss but it may aswell have been a 10 point loss. Ah man keep the head up big difference between a ten point defeat and a 1 point! An awful lot of our best players are still young and it wasn't them for the most part that played below standard. I'd hope Joe o connor and Paul o shea will have bigger roles next year aswell. Doubt there will be many retirements as some people think. The experts are telling us Tyrone g9t everything right and we got very little and there was a point in it after 100 mins. A bit more composure or a bit of luck wouldve swung it our way.
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Post by westgaa on Sept 2, 2021 19:48:15 GMT
Would people agree 4 or 5 will hang up the boots?
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Post by dc84 on Sept 2, 2021 19:52:50 GMT
I reckon three maybe... just as an aside can we do away with the way the captain is picked and have the proper men for the job it has been a distraction to too many players over the years who aren't guaranteed a start. Let the county champs nominate a vice captain and let the 2 of them lift the cup together and when we win the ai again let the cup go to there club first. Moran has been the leader of that team past few years I reckon seanie/David are now let one of them do it?
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Post by augustafield on Sept 2, 2021 20:09:51 GMT
Of the team that started last Saturday 1 back 2 forwards and hope that Moran stays on - if only playing a temporary role.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Sept 2, 2021 20:34:56 GMT
I reckon three maybe... just as an aside can we do away with the way the captain is picked and have the proper men for the job it has been a distraction to too many players over the years who aren't guaranteed a start. Let the county champs nominate a vice captain and let the 2 of them lift the cup together and when we win the ai again let the cup go to there club first. Moran has been the leader of that team past few years I reckon seanie/David are now let one of them do it? There is only one way to sever the link with county champions and the captain. Pick a year in the future (say in five years) and say between here and then the old system remains in place. That way it doesn't look like you're attacking the current dominant team, as no one knows for certain who will be kingpins in 5 years.
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Post by wideball on Sept 2, 2021 20:48:36 GMT
A question,would the Kerry team of 2021 have won the 2014 Replay vs Mayo in Limerick.I ask cos that game was played in a blood and thunder fashion,hits galore ,a belter...can this current team win a game like that cos Mayo are still playing with that mania,bit like Tyrone.. Probably not, I was pleasantly surprised when the 2014 Kerry team won it.
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Post by dc84 on Sept 3, 2021 7:19:50 GMT
I reckon three maybe... just as an aside can we do away with the way the captain is picked and have the proper men for the job it has been a distraction to too many players over the years who aren't guaranteed a start. Let the county champs nominate a vice captain and let the 2 of them lift the cup together and when we win the ai again let the cup go to there club first. Moran has been the leader of that team past few years I reckon seanie/David are now let one of them do it? There is only one way to sever the link with county champions and the captain. Pick a year in the future (say in five years) and say between here and then the old system remains in place. That way it doesn't look like you're attacking the current dominant team, as no one knows for certain who will be kingpins in 5 years. Yes we do its east kerry ! Yes I agree with you good idea
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2021 7:44:24 GMT
Anyone else still miserable a week on ? Mick I know said I hyped them up too much and sure maybe I fell into that trap. It's just hard to know where we are at now.. I know it was a 1 point loss but it may aswell have been a 10 point loss. When you step back from everything just for a bit, social media and the like can completely over dramaticise events. Yes we were beaten in a football match that we should have won, We didn't play to our potential, made mistakes, tactics wrong etc. But going by Twitter etc. you'd swear we were hammered out the gate. Everyone loves winners, no one more than the media. You couldn't pick up a paper over the last few years but there'd be a Dublin footballer looking back at you. I haven't heard 1 word about Dublin football in the last 3 weeks, even though they ran one of the All Ireland finalist to extra time. OTB are running 'Power rankings'!!!! WTF. Last week Kerry were ranked 1, and Tyrone 4, today Tyrone are 1 and we are 4. If Tommy's shot went over and we won the penalties I presume we'd still be in first place!! It's BS. The whole lot of it. I'm as disappointed as any Kerry person and a lot of it is vented here, but the cold reality of it is that we have a very good senior football team, as good as what's in the country. We're not miles better than any of the other top counties but we're there. Premium Ciarán Whelan September 03 2021 02:30 AM Mere inches separated the victors from the vanquished in this year’s two All-Ireland semi-finals. Have we already forgotten both games went to extra-time and in normal times (remember those, pre-Covid?) we’d have been headed for replays. Inches. Echoes of coach Tony D’Amato’s (played by Al Pacino) pep talk in the movie ‘Any Given Sunday’. “Because in either game, life or football, the margin for error is so small. I mean, one half a step too late or too early and you don’t quite make it. “One half second too slow, too fast and you don’t quite catch it. Read More Dublin's Martha Byrne wary of Royals who have ‘no history on shoulders’ “The inches we need are everywhere around us. They’re in every break of the game, every minute, every second.” There are numerous plays or pivotal moments we could highlight in both All-Ireland semi-finals to highlight the point but let’s recall the following two. A deadball effort from Robert Hennelly looks to be tailing wide, Brian Fenton expects it is and takes a step forward to try shepherd the ball out of play, Mayo’s Diarmuid O’Connor make a surging run from the other side of the penalty area and strains every sinew to make contact with an outstretched leg. He keeps the ball alive and Kevin McLoughlin is the most alert, he gathers possession before curling the ball over the bar. ADVERTISEMENT It gives Mayo a shot in the arm as they cut into Dublin’s lead, a lead Dublin fully surrendered deep in added time. Inches. Fast-forward to last Saturday. A Kieran McGeary point is drifting wide, Kerry midfielder Jack Barry throws a boot at it and only succeeds in diverting it into the path of Tyrone’s Conor McKenna and he rifles the ball clinically to the Kingdom’s net. A huge surge of energy for the Red Hands in their triumph. Inches. Small margins can win big games. Top level Gaelic games is a results-based industry with little room for sentiment. The outcome controls the narrative. Winners are mostly examined on all they did right, losers on what they did wrong. Last Saturday’s defeat will hurt Kerry for a long time and it places manager Peter Keane under considerable pressure. If last year’s late, late loss to Cork added weight to his shoulders, this latest loss will have added plenty more. If you didn’t know the final outcome but had the following statistics to hand you’d presume that Kerry won: They won possession from all their kick-outs; they won 50pc of Tyrone’s long kick-outs; they had 34 shots on goal; they scored 0-12 from turning over Tyrone. How did they lose the match? Again fine margins but it was like they were not fully prepared for what Tyrone would bring to Croke Park. Did the Covid-enforced delay get into Kerry minds? While it helped create a siege mentality in Tyrone, did Kerry get a bit spooked and spend time wondering ‘what’s really going on here, what are Tyrone really up to?’. Certainly if there were mind-games in operation, Tyrone won that round. ADVERTISEMENT Tyrone’s concession of Kerry kick-outs and the incredible press they exerted in the middle third resulted in the Kingdom running the ball. Tyrone’s defensive set-up and match-ups worked a treat to dull the influence of Paudie Clifford and Gavin White, two key men coming from deep in the Kerry engine room. The Red Hands always got extra men back inside the danger zone and lured Kerry into that trap. Kerry stupidly walked into it and in coughing up 35 turnovers, Tyrone scored a remarkable 2-9 on the counter-attack. What would Dublin, in their prime, have done with the same amount of possession that Kerry enjoyed? They would have played with greater width than Kerry, forcing Tyrone to spread out their defensive shield thus making their swarm defence more difficult to execute. Kerry were naive and operated as if ill-prepared for that aspect of Tyrone’s strategy. Road-tested or not in Munster, they should have known how Tyrone would approach the game. The template was there from the first half of their clash against Monaghan, where they squeezed the Farney men in the middle third. So where now for Kerry? When coach/selector Donie Buckley and Kerry manager Peter Keane parted ways it was always likely to raise its head again in the event of Kerry not lifting the Sam and that’s likely to be the case now. Also following Kerry’s defeat, Offaly chairman Michael Duignan moved very quickly to confirm Tomás Ó Sé’s involvement with the Faithful County’s footballers. ADVERTISEMENT Tomás is the type of personality that may have brought that extra steel to the Kerry camp which was a bit lacking last weekend. But Kerry’s difficulty was Offaly’s opportunity and in a sign of a more professional set-up in Offaly they swooped to get their man. It is hard to see Peter Keane surviving this latest setback but if the Kerry county board are not confident that there is an obvious replacement, if Éamonn Fitzmaurice doesn’t fancy a return, they may offer Keane one more year. Read More
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2021 7:48:48 GMT
Good piece by Ciaran Whelan.
On the thirds goal....I heard Colm Parkinson asking what was JB thinking by kicking the high ball that led to the third goal. It was Tiernsn McCann that kicked it back as far as i know. Ciaran Whelan is wrong on this point too in my opinion.
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Post by markisback on Sept 3, 2021 7:57:45 GMT
Our mantra now is that like decent Kerrymen we facilitated Tyrone to uphold the integrity of the competition. They lied through their teeth to beat us. That might be your mantra, but the second part of it is not true and I don’t think it is the mantra of the vast majority of the Kerry fans whose more considered comments I have been reading on here for the last week. There is no doubt that Kerry’s preparations were disrupted by the postponement of the game, although they weren’t as disrupted as Tyrone’s were, since Tyrone weren’t able to have proper sessions til the last week before the game. My impression is that Kerry maybe had one eye on the final and on the day the Tyrone players just looked a bit more focused and maybe wanted it that bit more. Sometimes in a big match that is the only difference between the teams on the day. Kerry still came very close and if Kerry had come out on the right side of a one point result we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. By the way, I agree with the first part of your mantra, Kerry did facilitate Tyrone and deserve great credit for the sportsmanship. Just a pity that a small number of their fans feel the need to denigrate a whole county as well. I might have expected this sort of nonsense from Spillane, O’Rourke and Brolly in their heyday, but it’s disappointing to hear it from real football fans.
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Post by otobeawinner on Sept 3, 2021 8:17:50 GMT
Our mantra now is that like decent Kerrymen we facilitated Tyrone to uphold the integrity of the competition. They lied through their teeth to beat us. That might be your mantra, but the second part of it is not true and I don’t think it is the mantra of the vast majority of the Kerry fans whose more considered comments I have been reading on here for the last week. There is no doubt that Kerry’s preparations were disrupted by the postponement of the game, although they weren’t as disrupted as Tyrone’s were, since Tyrone weren’t able to have proper sessions til the last week before the game. My impression is that Kerry maybe had one eye on the final and on the day the Tyrone players just looked a bit more focused and maybe wanted it that bit more. Sometimes in a big match that is the only difference between the teams on the day. Kerry still came very close and if Kerry had come out on the right side of a one point result we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. By the way, I agree with the first part of your mantra, Kerry did facilitate Tyrone and deserve great credit for the sportsmanship. Just a pity that a small number of their fans feel the need to denigrate a whole county as well. I might have expected this sort of nonsense from Spillane, O’Rourke and Brolly in their heyday, but it’s disappointing to hear it from real football fans. Bally does not speak for anyone but himself as I live in kerry and have had the misfortune to be digesting this lass all week with every person half interested in gaa. Not one has been so ignorant as to say what bally says. People have asked "what was all that about" or "there's something up there" but the conclusion is kerry lost because they didn't take their chances, bounce of the ball etc etc..... Spillane was an embarrassment sat, bally maybe you should read some of the nonsense you put down in type.
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Post by veteran on Sept 3, 2021 8:22:14 GMT
Good piece by Ciaran Whelan. On the thirds goal....I heard Colm Parkinson asking what was JB thinking by kicking the high ball that led to the third goal. It was Tiernsn McCann that kicked it back as far as i know. Ciaran Whelan is wrong on this point too in my opinion. Most people seem to think it was Jack who connected with the ball. Why do you think it was Tiernan McCann? You may be right of course.
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