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Post by john4 on Feb 10, 2021 10:36:37 GMT
What are the credentials to be a manager or selector/ coach in county teams? From what I see is if you played with your county that’s the qualifications. There should be a PROPER coaching ticket system over a number of course, years and testing that knowledge the same as any other top level sports. Most inter county coaches should have an understanding of the game in depth, coached at underage, knowledge on the principles of exercise, knowledge on how the human body works (physiology), code of ethics, child protection, knowledge on wellness....... There is a coach education program in place. Foundation, Level 1, 2, 3 etc. This is before you get into the degree courses in coaching and mentoring, I'm just wondering where our lads are on this.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 10, 2021 11:37:21 GMT
I fear ye are starting to complicate this altogether..what credentials had P O Shea,Jack O Connor,Jim Gavin,Mick O Dwyer?..Football is a simple game made look very complicated by extensive backroom teams and glorified titles.Its not like you have to have a college course for educating coaches and managers.Playing at the highest level isn't a necessity either.Jim Gavin played in how many All Irelands??? Its about having a management group who admittedly have a body of work to do to cover all bases.But it's also about players coming with the right attitude ,culture and their mentality tuned in.
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Post by Galway breeze on Feb 10, 2021 12:11:54 GMT
Sorry Pillar but you can’t have one rule for physiotherapist, analysts, S&C, medical , nutritionist and psychology which all need to show credentials before been added to backroom teams, and the Manager and coaches/selectors don’t need any credentials bar play for your county. IMO Gaelic football should stay amateur but if they keep push towards professionalism then credentials are a necessity.
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Post by john4 on Feb 10, 2021 12:18:56 GMT
I fear ye are starting to complicate this altogether..what credentials had P O Shea,Jack O Connor,Jim Gavin,Mick O Dwyer?..Football is a simple game made look very complicated by extensive backroom teams and glorified titles.Its not like you have to have a college course for educating coaches and managers.Playing at the highest level isn't a necessity either.Jim Gavin played in how many All Irelands??? Its about having a management group who admittedly have a body of work to do to cover all bases.But it's also about players coming with the right attitude ,culture and their mentality tuned in. I think you've the right book open but you're on the wrong page. Nobody here suggested that the team manager needs a qualification to do a good job. However, Coaching is a totally different ballgame. John Kiely is the Limerick hurling manager, he doesn't coach the team. Paul Kinnerk does, that's his job. He's qualified in this area and he's good at it. The days of roaring and shouting at fellas to get the best out of them is thankfully gone. There's a reason we don't just send bright, clever, well educated young people straight back into school to become educators, Because they haven't been thought how to teach. We have teacher training colleges for a reason! Coaching is teaching. Good players don't always make good coaches.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 10, 2021 12:45:10 GMT
I fear ye are starting to complicate this altogether..what credentials had P O Shea,Jack O Connor,Jim Gavin,Mick O Dwyer?..Football is a simple game made look very complicated by extensive backroom teams and glorified titles.Its not like you have to have a college course for educating coaches and managers.Playing at the highest level isn't a necessity either.Jim Gavin played in how many All Irelands??? Its about having a management group who admittedly have a body of work to do to cover all bases.But it's also about players coming with the right attitude ,culture and their mentality tuned in. I think you've the right book open but you're on the wrong page. Nobody here suggested that the team manager needs a qualification to do a good job. However, Coaching is a totally different ballgame. John Kiely is the Limerick hurling manager, he doesn't coach the team. Paul Kinnerk does, that's his job. He's qualified in this area and he's good at it. The days of roaring and shouting at fellas to get the best out of them is thankfully gone. There's a reason we don't just send bright, clever, well educated young people straight back into school to become educators, Because they haven't been thought how to teach. We have teacher training colleges for a reason! Coaching is teaching. Good players don't always make good coaches. I'd agree with you in most points but I don't buy into the fact that the players are lacking coaching within this set up.I fear we are basing 2 years work on one bad day in November..it was a bad day but the narrative that it was down to management failure doesn't sit well with me
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Post by taibhse on Feb 10, 2021 14:22:33 GMT
Time was when we don’t even need a big tactical idea because lads were collectively able to do the right thing by themselves. But in the modern game, a team can be as talented and technically adept as it gets, if they are not up to par tactically, they will most likely lose that game. The game now can be highly complex – 15 opposing players that can basically move across the field in a hundred different ways, creating free spaces and trying to lead the opponent’s defensive flow in the wrong direction, is something most team sports have in common. Preparing for such tactical scenarios requires a high degree of expertise. Many successful coaches are constantly trying to get ideas and to transfer strategies and entire plays from other sports.
Nobody is disparaging Maurice in all of this. As a man, he is a strong and positive role model – no question. A kicking coach, yes. But I do not expect that he can add any potent layers of strategies or tactics to this team right now, which is the number one challenge.
Nor can we have a coach running onto the field making wild gestures and shouting the new tactical instructions, which ultimately brings even more confusion to the players.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 10, 2021 15:42:57 GMT
Time was when we don’t even need a big tactical idea because lads were collectively able to do the right thing by themselves. But in the modern game, a team can be as talented and technically adept as it gets, if they are not up to par tactically, they will most likely lose that game. The game now can be highly complex – 15 opposing players that can basically move across the field in a hundred different ways, creating free spaces and trying to lead the opponent’s defensive flow in the wrong direction, is something most team sports have in common. Preparing for such tactical scenarios requires a high degree of expertise. Many successful coaches are constantly trying to get ideas and to transfer strategies and entire plays from other sports. Nobody is disparaging Maurice in all of this. As a man, he is a strong and positive role model – no question. A kicking coach, yes. But I do not expect that he can add any potent layers of strategies or tactics to this team right now, which is the number one challenge. Nor can we have a coach running onto the field making wild gestures and shouting the new tactical instructions, which ultimately brings even more confusion to the players. I'll give free rein to name 2 attainable coaches that would aid your argument
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Post by taibhse on Feb 10, 2021 16:19:08 GMT
Without too much thought: Donie Buckley, Micheál Quirke, Pat O'Shea.
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Post by john4 on Feb 10, 2021 17:26:27 GMT
Stephen Poacher, Donal Daly, John Divilly, Paddy Christie. David Morris to add to the above. All proven coaches at a high level.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 10, 2021 17:57:30 GMT
Stephen Poacher, Donal Daly, John Divilly, Paddy Christie. David Morris to add to the above. All proven coaches at a high level. Sounds like the County board will have to do a root and branch review of Coaching structures cos outside of County board and Munster Council employees ye have named all outsiders
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Feb 10, 2021 19:10:40 GMT
Stephen Poacher, Donal Daly, John Divilly, Paddy Christie. David Morris to add to the above. All proven coaches at a high level. Jesus, Poacher. If we were mad last year about being defensive, Clifford would never move from corner back under him. I understand he’s all into his coaching or doing talks on it which can be helpful to help club coaches but you couldn’t let him near a county team.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 10, 2021 20:29:22 GMT
Stephen Poacher, Donal Daly, John Divilly, Paddy Christie. David Morris to add to the above. All proven coaches at a high level. Stephen Poacher... Ahh now come off it.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Feb 10, 2021 20:31:05 GMT
Looks like May now for the national league.
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Post by john4 on Feb 10, 2021 20:52:47 GMT
Stephen Poacher, Donal Daly, John Divilly, Paddy Christie. David Morris to add to the above. All proven coaches at a high level. Stephen Poacher... Ahh now come off it. He's gone to Roscommon this year anyway!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 10, 2021 21:25:47 GMT
Stephen Poacher f**kin' hell.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Feb 26, 2021 1:03:26 GMT
Time was when we don’t even need a big tactical idea because lads were collectively able to do the right thing by themselves. But in the modern game, a team can be as talented and technically adept as it gets, if they are not up to par tactically, they will most likely lose that game. The game now can be highly complex – 15 opposing players that can basically move across the field in a hundred different ways, creating free spaces and trying to lead the opponent’s defensive flow in the wrong direction, is something most team sports have in common. Preparing for such tactical scenarios requires a high degree of expertise. Many successful coaches are constantly trying to get ideas and to transfer strategies and entire plays from other sports. Nobody is disparaging Maurice in all of this. As a man, he is a strong and positive role model – no question. A kicking coach, yes. But I do not expect that he can add any potent layers of strategies or tactics to this team right now, which is the number one challenge. Nor can we have a coach running onto the field making wild gestures and shouting the new tactical instructions, which ultimately brings even more confusion to the players. I'll give free rein to name 2 attainable coaches that would aid your argument Taibhse The one line above that jumps out to me is that “Maurice could be a kicking coach yes “ Your implying that a kicking coach is not relevant compared to the tactical movement and strategies I look at last years flop v cork. Yes we got the tactics wrong but the kicking and scoring efforts did not reflect a team that had any work at all done on scoring and kicking . The one thing I though Maurice would bring to the team Kicking coaches I fear are not getting priority in Kerry or in Mayo Dublin on the other hand put tons of work into their kicking scoring And it shows. Let’s not over hype the tactical stuff and watch how wasteful mayo and Kerry were in 2020 simply not focusing on this scoring aspect at all
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Post by taibhse on Feb 26, 2021 11:50:41 GMT
“Your implying that a kicking coach is not relevant compared to the tactical movement and strategies”
I’m implying nothing of the sort. What I am saying is that Maurice has been part of the group since 2017 if memory serves me right. It’s hard to believe that he was just standing around with his hands in his pockets and not contributing from his exceptional skill and experience. If he wasn’t contributing in that respect then I would be genuinely amazed.
What I am saying is that not every great played is automatically a great coach. The game has changed beyond recognition since Maurice was playing at the top level.
When lack of belief and doubt is implanted in the minds of players, then you get the type of performance that we got last day out. A team playing with confidence would not miss simple shots like that. An amount of them were not even under pressure, including close-in frees. Just my opinion.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Feb 27, 2021 1:02:26 GMT
Taibhse
I think that your close to the core of the problem here I’m living thousand s of miles from Kerry and I recently met a Cahirsiveen man I’n my neighborhood and we both were perplexed with how Kerry’s kicking and scoring skills were so poor especially with the “Maistro” on the coaching staff. I’ve only the highest regard for “mossie” but me thinks he not being allowed to do his job and do it properly . I don’t necessarily agree that it was a confidence problem I simply think we didn’t put the work in to the high percentage scoring it shows clearly . In games Keep up the good posts
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 27, 2021 8:57:47 GMT
We're investing a hell of a lot of weight into one terrible night down in Cork.
How was the "kicking" in the league?
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Feb 27, 2021 10:12:33 GMT
We're investing a hell of a lot of weight into one terrible night down in Cork. How was the "kicking" in the league? Like the lads on TV3 last night said analysing the rugby,I think fellas need to watch a few Disney movies and get a dose of love back in their lives.The negativity on here,based on 1 match,is terrible.Cheer up lads!!!
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 27, 2021 11:02:03 GMT
We're investing a hell of a lot of weight into one terrible night down in Cork. How was the "kicking" in the league? While I do agree to an extent, I’m always minded to remember the concept of the TG4 footballer and how he matters little come championship time
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 27, 2021 12:00:22 GMT
We're investing a hell of a lot of weight into one terrible night down in Cork. How was the "kicking" in the league? While I do agree to an extent, I’m always minded to remember the concept of the TG4 footballer and how he matters little come championship time I'm sorry I don't follow.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 27, 2021 14:18:09 GMT
I think it was Ciaran Murphy from second captains who coined it. The TG4 footballer: great in the league but nowhere to be seen come championship time.
His league form irrelevant when it mattered
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 27, 2021 14:40:28 GMT
I think it was Ciaran Murphy from second captains who coined it. The TG4 footballer: great in the league but nowhere to be seen come championship time. His league form irrelevant when it mattered OK but I'm not sure does that apply here. I only say league because I am discounting that one game in a monsoon.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Feb 27, 2021 14:50:20 GMT
I think it was Ciaran Murphy from second captains who coined it. The TG4 footballer: great in the league but nowhere to be seen come championship time. His league form irrelevant when it mattered OK but I'm not sure does that apply here. I only say league because I am discounting that one game in a monsoon. League form is irrelevant if you’re nowhere to be seen in the championship. You cant really discount the game as it was still the sum total of our championship.
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dano
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Post by dano on Feb 27, 2021 19:28:15 GMT
At the time I too was very critical of both management and players. As I look back on it now I believe the weather was huge that night in Cork. All the euphoria and Roy Of The Rovers vibe coming out of Cork after the fortunate victory was soon forgotten when Tipp unearthed the real Cork. Then , on a dry day perfect for football, poor oul Tipp were badly exposed by Mayo in second gear. The final was then a foregone conclusion as there was only one team that could have beaten Dublin. I agree with Pillar and Annascaul. We got sucker punched in a rainstorm. A win that night, even by a point, and we could have won the All Ireland.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 27, 2021 19:40:33 GMT
We're talking about "kicking". David Clifford missed frees that night when since he came on the scene his kicking stats have been remarkable.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Feb 28, 2021 14:42:35 GMT
Can some one of our posters here get any stats on Percentage of scores per shots taken For top 5 counties ? 2019 and 2020 Just isolate that conversion rate only Forget about the GPS tracker the tackle count possessions etc Just scores from shots taken I would estimate the Dubs are ahead here and it’s all about the time they put in to this aspect you’ll rarely if ever see them take a low percentage Hail Mary shot . Their shooters have left and right no problem Nothing mysterious just that they focus on this We May be naturally better kickers in Kerry arguably but we don’t prioritize it .
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Feb 28, 2021 20:53:38 GMT
At the time I too was very critical of both management and players. As I look back on it now I believe the weather was huge that night in Cork. All the euphoria and Roy Of The Rovers vibe coming out of Cork after the fortunate victory was soon forgotten when Tipp unearthed the real Cork. Then , on a dry day perfect for football, poor oul Tipp were badly exposed by Mayo in second gear. The final was then a foregone conclusion as there was only one team that could have beaten Dublin. I agree with Pillar and Annascaul. We got sucker punched in a rainstorm. A win that night, even by a point, and we could have won the All Ireland. we drew with dublin in 2019 in a match that was there to be won , not that far away at all, a bit of tweeking, be a bit more expansive in our play , there is no need for mass changes
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Post by Ballyfireside on Mar 1, 2021 0:35:11 GMT
At the time I too was very critical of both management and players. As I look back on it now I believe the weather was huge that night in Cork. All the euphoria and Roy Of The Rovers vibe coming out of Cork after the fortunate victory was soon forgotten when Tipp unearthed the real Cork. Then , on a dry day perfect for football, poor oul Tipp were badly exposed by Mayo in second gear. The final was then a foregone conclusion as there was only one team that could have beaten Dublin. I agree with Pillar and Annascaul. We got sucker punched in a rainstorm. A win that night, even by a point, and we could have won the All Ireland. we drew with dublin in 2019 in a match that was there to be won , not that far away at all, a bit of tweeking, be a bit more expansive in our play , there is no need for mass changes No need to change much when we are 100 miles from where we should be - my take on it is that we just repeatedly fail to find our Mojo, can't get into to gear and drive on and get over the line first. I believe in the players and we have so many of them but they need leadership they are not getting. And hey Mossie, if ya can get anyone to swallow that spiel then get a job as a salesman with Donald T, you might even re-elect him, God forbid!
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