Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 18:07:45 GMT
There are good reasons for gough not to referee the final but that is not one of them
Every ref has made mistakes
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Post by listowelemerrs on Aug 12, 2019 18:21:46 GMT
I know there's a long way to go before the final etc but just wondering what people think how and what way should we try approach this game particularly in the first half as we all know dubs are a different team in the second half... Maybe should we park the bus completely play 2 sweepers leave 2 or 3 forwards above for the first half and then unleash the shackles for second half? If it was me id start tommy walsh. he is great at winning the ball that clifford and geaney find difficult to win and then just feeds them its perfect and he also confuses his marker in the sense that he can come short not only long. But should we play a sweeper? should jack barry start to track fenton? Sherwood could be starting? So many if's buts etc but isn't it great what more could you ask for preparing for an all ireland final. bring it on.
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Aug 12, 2019 18:42:57 GMT
There is still lots to analyse, mainly defense. It hasn’t been sorted yet. I know the commentators sounded like they were enjoying Kerry’s difficulties in the first half but they were right.
It was obviously a tactic to put Paul in the half back line as sweeper but surely it was clear as day it was not working, 2 on 2 inside was killing us.
I’d challenge PK & Co as to why that was allow to continue. For sure things improved amazingly in the 2nd half but we should have done way better in that 1st half.
Letting Tyrone get an early lead was about the worst thing that could have happened, I think everyone thought we were done for by half time.
If we play as naively in defense against Dublin then I don’t think we’ll get a 2nd chance. We got to be in the game in the 3rd quarter when the game is going to take off, that’s shoot out time which I think we can compete in, however if we’ve given up easy chances then we could be goosed early on.
I was fairly critical of EF for years and PK is way ahead imo but this defense needs something a lot better than on Sunday,
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Aug 12, 2019 18:52:12 GMT
Think we actually got in each others way in the first half..too many of our defenders in the attacking half made us shapeless in both defence and attack.huge gap into our full back line and sweeper was like a pea in an ocean.shape was much better in second half..I'd actually approach Dublin game exact way we played Donegal in 2014 with the way our backline held its shape..keep the gaps to a minimum
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Post by ballhopper34 on Aug 12, 2019 18:59:12 GMT
PK and the management are to be congratulated on exceeding the goals for their maiden voyage...I doubt anyone expected Kerry to appear in both National finals in 2019.
Some big decisions to be made on style and match-ups will be made this week, allowing two weeks to get the strategies in place.
Let the real mission begin.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 12, 2019 20:29:10 GMT
or did he see it and couldn't give it? |
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Post by dc84 on Aug 12, 2019 20:42:06 GMT
or did he see it and couldn't give it? I don't think he did to be fair it was right in front of me and where gough was he probably couldn't see it but the linesman could. |
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 12, 2019 20:55:10 GMT
My main grievance with Gough in 2016 is that he took the word of a Dublin player (I think it was McManamon) and awarded a 45 where the ball had gone wide and been waved wide. Just took his word, did not consult anyone else. The same honour system was not applied to Paul Murphy when he protested for a 45.
To me, that was unacceptable at any level of football.
That game left a bad taste more than many others. Cormac Costello absolutely dogged O Beaglaoich and got away with it. The Crowley/McManamon incident was inexplicably unpunished.
I am opposed to Gough getting this game, and would feel the same way about McQuillan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 21:00:27 GMT
Costello got a black card didn’t he
Same as OBrien yesterday
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Post by sullyschoice on Aug 12, 2019 21:03:33 GMT
Reports of Paul Mannion having a groin strain.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 12, 2019 21:08:17 GMT
My main grievance with Gough in 2016 is that he took the word of a Dublin player (I think it was McManamon) and awarded a 45 where the ball had gone wide and been waved wide. Just took his word, did not consult anyone else. The same honour system was not applied to Paul Murphy when he protested for a 45. To me, that was unacceptable at any level of football. That game left a bad taste more than many others. Cormac Costello absolutely dogged O Beaglaoich and got away with it. The Crowley/McManamon incident was inexplicably unpunished. I am opposed to Gough getting this game, and would feel the same way about McQuillan. you left out one key bit.... Gough and McMenamin are members of or involved in the same club |
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 12, 2019 21:09:20 GMT
My main grievance with Gough in 2016 is that he took the word of a Dublin player (I think it was McManamon) and awarded a 45 where the ball had gone wide and been waved wide. Just took his word, did not consult anyone else. The same honour system was not applied to Paul Murphy when he protested for a 45. To me, that was unacceptable at any level of football. That game left a bad taste more than many others. Cormac Costello absolutely dogged O Beaglaoich and got away with it. The Crowley/McManamon incident was inexplicably unpunished. I am opposed to Gough getting this game, and would feel the same way about McQuillan. Is there a connection between the club/feeder school Gough & Manamon are connected with? |
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 12, 2019 21:12:18 GMT
My main grievance with Gough in 2016 is that he took the word of a Dublin player (I think it was McManamon) and awarded a 45 where the ball had gone wide and been waved wide. Just took his word, did not consult anyone else. The same honour system was not applied to Paul Murphy when he protested for a 45. To me, that was unacceptable at any level of football. That game left a bad taste more than many others. Cormac Costello absolutely dogged O Beaglaoich and got away with it. The Crowley/McManamon incident was inexplicably unpunished. I am opposed to Gough getting this game, and would feel the same way about McQuillan. you left out one key bit.... Gough and McMenamin are members of or involved in the same club I know! Clearly there is the danger at least of some unconscious bias. |
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 12, 2019 21:14:35 GMT
Very hard to make a huge call such as the end of the 2016 semi final.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 21:17:05 GMT
Reports of Paul Mannion having a groin strain. Yerra |
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 12, 2019 21:18:24 GMT
This will be Kerry's 60th all Ireland final (disregarding replays) am I right? Already played 59 winning 37 times and losing 22 finals. Technically this is incorrect as the 1910 All Ireland was not played. Louth got a walk-over. The reason for the decision is that "The 1910 final was scratched and Louth were awarded the championship after Kerry refused to travel to Dublin as the Great Southern and Western Railway would not sell tickets to their fans at reduced rates". That is correct. Also, in 1908 Kerry lost the 'home' final v Dublin. This is not usually listed in Kerry's record of final losses. I make it: 21 'proper' All-Ireland Finals lost on the pitch (1892; 1905; 1915; 1923; 1927; 1938 (R); 1944; 1947; 1954; 1960; 1964; 1965; 1968; 1972 (R); 1976; 1982; 2002; 2005; 2008; 2011; 2015) 1 'Home' Final lost (1908) 1 lost on a walkover (1910) |
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 12, 2019 21:26:10 GMT
Costello got a black card didn’t he Same as OBrien yesterday You are right, I just looked it up. He did eventually get one. I stand by my general point re that performance by Gough. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 21:44:13 GMT
Costello got a black card didn’t he Same as OBrien yesterday You are right, I just looked it up. He did eventually get one. I stand by my general point re that performance by Gough. Eventually? Costello came on in injury time so not sure how much earlier he could have got a black card The issue here isn’t about specific refereeing decisions. It is a much larger issue. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 12, 2019 21:44:54 GMT
All these claims about Gough making mistakes etc, imo, are moot.
He lives in Dublin. Should not be reffing them. It shouldn't even be a debate.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 12, 2019 21:47:48 GMT
All these claims about Gough making mistakes etc, imo, are moot. He lives in Dublin. Should not be reffing them. It shouldn't even be a debate. Its good that you changed your mind on this. After the 2015 final you attacked me for making the rather obvious point that Coldrick should not have reffed that match as he was living and working in Dublin. |
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Post by sullyschoice on Aug 12, 2019 21:50:15 GMT
Reports of Paul Mannion having a groin strain. Yerra Yerra yourself |
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MeathExile
Full Member
I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
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Post by MeathExile on Aug 12, 2019 22:05:00 GMT
Gough (or Coldrick) should not ref this - end of. He rode us in 16 - I was no never so annoyed by a ref in my lifetime. McManamon was in his ear at end of the match and if I recall correctly it was him that fouled Peter as well.
Even apart from that history - put it this way....
Referee X is from Cork, who lives in Killarney. He is involved with Crokes/Legion for the last few years. There is even a photo of him on social media having a night out with Gooch.......Do you think the GAA would even contemplate appointing him for a Kerry Dublin final. Seriously?? Dublin would go to the Courts (again) to get it changed.
It is beyond belief that this is even being considered. The ref should be from a different province to ensure neutrality.
This is Father Ted territory to be honest.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Aug 12, 2019 22:05:58 GMT
The most important thing is for management to set the tone for the next three weeks:
Lads, we will enjoy the next three weeks as we prepare for another game.
We have one more game.
Keep smiling.
Be willing to make small talk on the street if approached.
Be prepared to focus 100% during training and tactical sessions.
Keep smiling.
We are Kerry - enjoy your county.
Prepare to give your best for your county.
And Keep smiling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 22:17:49 GMT
The most important thing is for management to set the tone for the next three weeks: Lads, we will enjoy the next three weeks as we prepare for another game. We have one more game. Keep smiling. Be willing to make small talk on the street if approached. Be prepared to focus 100% during training and tactical sessions. Keep smiling. We are Kerry - enjoy your county. Prepare to give your best for your county. And Keep smiling. Well said Far too much moaning on this forum with the same posters saying the same thing again and again. I am culpable here also. |
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Aug 12, 2019 22:32:15 GMT
Very hard to make a huge call such as the end of the 2016 semi final. The easy call (as well as the correct one) was to give a free with Kerry being a point down. |
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Aug 12, 2019 22:33:26 GMT
All these claims about Gough making mistakes etc, imo, are moot. He lives in Dublin. Should not be reffing them. It shouldn't even be a debate. Spot on |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 12, 2019 23:44:04 GMT
All these claims about Gough making mistakes etc, imo, are moot. He lives in Dublin. Should not be reffing them. It shouldn't even be a debate. Its good that you changed your mind on this. After the 2015 final you attacked me for making the rather obvious point that Coldrick should not have reffed that match as he was living and working in Dublin. I am afraid your recollection of that is not exactly correct. I said I was not happy with Coldrick reffing on account of him being from a neighbouring county and possibly living/working in Dublin. It's in black and white here: kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/5831/ireland-football-final-kerry-dublin?page=34 |
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dano
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Post by dano on Aug 13, 2019 2:24:53 GMT
I think enough has been said here and elsewhere about who the ref in the final will be. It could be argued that 2011 late non-free to Dublin set them on their road to glory. We can argue that a missed infraction against one of ours in 2016 cost us a final.This kerry team have put themselves in a great place. A chance at redemption. A redemption not only for recent times but for something that's haunted the Kingdom for 37 years.The Dubs are a great team. I know it was the league but we beat them already this year and with everyone fit, please God, we can do it again no matter who the ref is
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Post by colinsworth1 on Aug 13, 2019 3:05:39 GMT
Many words have been written about how the game v Tyrone changed with the “ dul chun cinn “ effect of sherwood in particular in the second half but O beaglaoi seemed to go into Turbo charge as well ,has he improved? Turned a corner I thought he has a good positive impact in the revival . Well spotted by the management at training ground .
Regarding the debate of the almost taboo word “sweeper “
If we had 15 players who were each better than the 15 Dublin players then there would be no need for a sweeper . The reality is that we could do be out of the game in seconds if we don’t have reinforcements in the form of two extra defenders or as Steven Rochford said on Sunday defense plus 2 Paul
Murphy was minding the outer gate but we need someone watching the “red zone” too plus two or double sweeper we’ll need them
But they they’ll have to be involved in the attack too and the transition from back to up field .
Has anyone done a better man marking job all year than Tom Sullivan did on Sunday but in doing do we lost a huge part of the attacking game that TOS brings when he has more freedom . I know it’s hard to be all things to all people but look what Paddy Durkan did to jack Macaffery on Saturday
Defended but got his attack game going too
Point is we sacrificed possibly our best playmaker when he could have been given a paddy Durkan more Dynamic Role ,Our sweepers need to be totally
Mobile too so as not to take themselves out of their game either .
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 13, 2019 5:17:06 GMT
If Kerry go too defensive they don't win.
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