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Post by Mickmack on Aug 27, 2017 17:56:55 GMT
When posters single out players they tend to forget this is a team sport and individuals rely on one another to perform. Yes individuals have off games but when a team performs the way we did yesterday the issue is normally far deeper.
Our keeper was under massive pressure and his highlighted errors came from the team being unable to give him options and leaving him exposed. Tearing into and highlighting individuals is simplistic and distasteful given the efforts our amateur sportsmen put in - team (including management) must take responsibility and look to whether or not they can be part of the solution or is it time to let others have a go. I was on the Hill and recorded the kickouts...not all but a good few. This shows the pressure Kelly was under. I see Cluxton used the same tactic today as Clarke.... making himself available for the handpass back after the little chipped kickout Mayos method of retaining possession from the kickout was far more refined than ours and was a crucial difference between the sides. Gough rewarded the team in possession with frees. Kelly didn't do all that bad in the circumstances. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 18:01:14 GMT
Yesterday a well managed transition of the past few years might simply have fizzled out and run it's natural life. Time to begin rebuilding now with the recent minor teams and what is left from that transition. What does this actually mean? Who remains from the current panel and who does not? |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 27, 2017 18:12:59 GMT
I think people are a bit too sensitive these days. So what if some bad language is used, so what if some kids are in the vicinity. Passion is part of the game, people do get carried away and do things they shouldn't but let's retain some perspective. Spot on, well said. There is a difference however between an excited "*" and sustained venom. |
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 27, 2017 18:15:05 GMT
Yesterday a well managed transition of the past few years might simply have fizzled out and run it's natural life. Time to begin rebuilding now with the recent minor teams and what is left from that transition. What does this actually mean? Who remains from the current panel and who does not? Kerry looked bereft of ideas yesterday across the board. A natural starting place is Ryan at 1 with Paul Geaney at 14. Jason Foley at 3 with Begly and Sullivan at 5 & 7. Clifford at 13 and JOD at 15 with Sean O'Shea at 11. Savage, Barry, Morley also have big roles to play. Enright, Crowley, Young, Moran, remain the bridge players. Fionn Fitz remains a class act in my opinion. Maher, Donaghy, Sheehan, Walsh etc probably have panel roles to play in the short term. Have we been fair to Griffin? Try him further out the field, a natural athlete. Tommy Walsh should have another cut at it. in essence, get the young players in there and get them conditioned, that will take a couple of seasons. Mayo and Dublin have moved on physically. Who is best placed within the county to manage the rebuild? |
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kerryscoob
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Where's the Hudson river
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Post by kerryscoob on Aug 27, 2017 18:46:55 GMT
Tommy Walsh! Come on now he's finished due to serious injury and we should move on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 18:47:37 GMT
In terms of the players you have not mentioned, I would tend to agree with you. Maybe Darren still has an impact role. Not sure what Sheehan brings to it. The young players you mention are all on the panel at the moment so should already be well advanced on the s&c side. Some league games next year will bring them on even more.
I assume Paul Murphy is part of this also. Not sure about griffin. Seems to have been around a long time without ever inspiring much confidence.
No evidence that tommy Walsh is anywhere good enough based on club form.
In terms of who is best placed, I don't think it is jack o Connor. Too much baggage. Another all Ireland and Peter Keane is a contender. I
Maybe Donie Buckley could be part of the mgt team?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 18:48:25 GMT
There is a difference however between an excited "*" and sustained venom. You really are a sensitive soul😀 |
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 27, 2017 18:59:51 GMT
In terms of the players you have not mentioned, I would tend to agree with you. Maybe Darren still has an impact role. Not sure what Sheehan brings to it. The young players you mention are all on the panel at the moment so should already be well advanced on the s&c side. Some league games next year will bring them on even more. I assume Paul Murphy is part of this also. Not sure about griffin. Seems to have been around a long time without ever inspiring much confidence. No evidence that tommy Walsh is anywhere good enough based on club form. In terms of who is best placed, I don't think it is jack o Connor. Too much baggage. Another all Ireland and Peter Keane is a contender. I Maybe Donie Buckley could be part of the mgt team? Of course Paul Murphy is central, a natural leader. Diarmuid Murphy? The elephant in the room, who will anchor midfield, will it be Mark O'Connor................... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 19:05:26 GMT
All has gone quiet with mark since his debut . He is back with the reserves now. The next 12 months will tell a lot.
What else has diarmuid Murphy done on the coaching front?
A few other names to throw out there would be Donal daly, mike quirke, Declan, Tommy griffin. Not saying they are the next manager but just guys who could be involved.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 27, 2017 19:06:07 GMT
There is a difference however between an excited "*" and sustained venom. Being on the terrace is much better. You can move away if a moron is behind you. |
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 27, 2017 19:07:18 GMT
I still hold out hope for Barry OSullivan and Cormac Coffey
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 19:09:23 GMT
What age are they? 21? Of course they could still come through
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 27, 2017 19:12:04 GMT
It is interesting times, yesterday might be the beginning of something new. Time to move on and embrace it now. Bring new players on board and blood new management in the county for later on. Big job for the new chairman to facilitate this change.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 27, 2017 19:15:02 GMT
There is a difference however between an excited "*" and sustained venom. Being on the terrace is much better. You can move away if a moron is behind you. Ya, you can even block morons on forums  |
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 27, 2017 19:51:01 GMT
All has gone quiet with mark since his debut . He is back with the reserves now. The next 12 months will tell a lot. What else has diarmuid Murphy done on the coaching front? A few other names to throw out there would be Donal daly, mike quirke, Declan, Tommy griffin. Not saying they are the next manager but just guys who could be involved. should there be a change of manager surely Pat O'Shea is a great candidate, has managed his club and county to all Ireland titles |
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 27, 2017 19:52:28 GMT
I still hold out hope for Barry OSullivan and Cormac Coffey Barry O'Sullivan played a few league games I think? Not as pacey as I thought, which could be his Achilles heel |
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 27, 2017 19:53:41 GMT
In terms of the players you have not mentioned, I would tend to agree with you. Maybe Darren still has an impact role. Not sure what Sheehan brings to it. The young players you mention are all on the panel at the moment so should already be well advanced on the s&c side. Some league games next year will bring them on even more. I assume Paul Murphy is part of this also. Not sure about griffin. Seems to have been around a long time without ever inspiring much confidence. No evidence that tommy Walsh is anywhere good enough based on club form. In terms of who is best placed, I don't think it is jack o Connor. Too much baggage. Another all Ireland and Peter Keane is a contender. I Maybe Donie Buckley could be part of the mgt team? Of course Paul Murphy is central, a natural leader. Diarmuid Murphy? The elephant in the room, who will anchor midfield, will it be Mark O'Connor................... Surely O'Connor be in Oz a while more? |
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Post by seeking38 on Aug 27, 2017 20:00:27 GMT
There is a difference however between an excited "*" and sustained venom. Definitely not sensitive Ciarraiabu and I love the banter just as much as anyone. |
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Post by seeking38 on Aug 27, 2017 20:04:11 GMT
I really hope Kieran Donaghy gives it a lash for another year. He has still an awful lot to offer and a more attacking approach would suit him.
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Post by mushroom on Aug 27, 2017 20:08:10 GMT
Christ folks, please just realise we are miles behind Dublin and well behind Mayo as well for the simple reason our management didn't give youth a chance over the last few years. Look at Dublin, Fenton,McCaffrey, Cooper, Mannion , O Callaghan, Costello et all were playing senior football for their county while still under 21, here with us if I'm correct, before yesterday, we haven't played more than 3 or 4 under 21s since Eamon Fitzmaurce and his various selectors took over.
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Post by jumanji on Aug 27, 2017 20:13:28 GMT
Christ folks, please just realise we are miles behind Dublin and well behind Mayo as well for the simple reason our management didn't give youth a chance over the last few years. Look at Dublin, Fenton,McCaffrey, Cooper, Mannion , O Callaghan, Costello et all were playing senior football for their county while still under 21, here with us if I'm correct, before yesterday, we haven't played more than 3 or 4 under 21s since Eamon Fitzmaurce and his various selectors took over. 13 players that played the replay in 2014 against mayo started the drawn game in 2017. 3 years and no youth brought through. Eamonn conservative nature summed up in one sentence |
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Aug 27, 2017 20:27:15 GMT
Christ folks, please just realise we are miles behind Dublin and well behind Mayo as well for the simple reason our management didn't give youth a chance over the last few years. Look at Dublin, Fenton,McCaffrey, Cooper, Mannion , O Callaghan, Costello et all were playing senior football for their county while still under 21, here with us if I'm correct, before yesterday, we haven't played more than 3 or 4 under 21s since Eamon Fitzmaurce and his various selectors took over. 13 players that played the replay in 2014 against mayo started the drawn game in 2017. 3 years and no youth brought through. Eamonn conservative nature summed up in one sentence Totally agree, new management needs to have no baggage and play the best team possible, make a plan for the youth to come through. Its actually now a job with huge potential. If you are an ambitious manager looking at all the underage success etc..., you'd die to have the job, |
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 27, 2017 20:29:50 GMT
Christ folks, please just realise we are miles behind Dublin and well behind Mayo as well for the simple reason our management didn't give youth a chance over the last few years. Look at Dublin, Fenton,McCaffrey, Cooper, Mannion , O Callaghan, Costello et all were playing senior football for their county while still under 21, here with us if I'm correct, before yesterday, we haven't played more than 3 or 4 under 21s since Eamon Fitzmaurce and his various selectors took over. The under 21s left us down with a bang against Galway. There are questions over Jack too about it? He certainly didn’t lack time or resources and his interview prior to the Galway game was bizarre where he suggested the attitude of players might not be quite right. But surely it was the managers job to bring all egos to heel if they were attitude issues? I just felt Jack was preparing excuses and he can be cranky and confrontational. There should be no cosy cartel with Kerry management. Is there some line of succession already decided where Jack steps in again and EF steps out for bit? If Eamonn steps down and I think he should, I would like to see a complete break from recent management regimes. As I mentioned earlier, Liam Kearns has earned serious consideration and I’d love to see Liam and Donie Buckley in a management ticket. What ever happens, a new fresh approach with new faces would be healthy for Kerry football at this stage. A break from the coalface would be healthy for Eamonn too and his still a young man. The decision is his of course. |
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Post by winter on Aug 27, 2017 20:32:07 GMT
All has gone quiet with mark since his debut . He is back with the reserves now. The next 12 months will tell a lot. What else has diarmuid Murphy done on the coaching front? A few other names to throw out there would be Donal daly, mike quirke, Declan, Tommy griffin. Not saying they are the next manager but just guys who could be involved. |
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Post by winter on Aug 27, 2017 20:34:57 GMT
Mike Quirke. You must be joking.
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Post by kerrypride on Aug 27, 2017 20:38:58 GMT
Been a fan of EF with what he has done with a number of players that are not in the calibre of what we had 10/12 years ago. I think the youth players will only start hitting the age now that they can be brought through (it was an eye opener to see how the U21s performed against Galway, time is needed). He obviously has faith in Jack Savage being the first sub the last day. Tom O Sullivan starting (I agree a lot to ask of the lad) id say McCarthy would have started if not injured and Barry started. I expect a lot more youth to come through in the league, including a goalie change, as he will know they have to be brought in (we said it last year but when you look at the U21s it may have been too soon but a few lads did come in) and hopefully Clifford can be the exception to go straight from minor to senior which hasnt happened in a long time. As somebody mentioned some lads been on the extended panel the last two years so hopefully their conditioning is progressing. However even the backs coming through none are of the physique needed when you look at some of the Mayo and Dublin players so more is needed than just youth and pace. We need to see if any club players at ages 24/25 are playing club football that can come in to add some needed physicality to balance the squad, really missed o mahony this year, not every good footballer played minor or U21, some guys can blossom a bit later,its rare but it happens. As i said i have been a fan of EF but i fear he is a cautious manager at the business end (2013 semi aside) and i am unsure whether he can bring the young players through as i would want or whether a more positive aggressive thinking manager is needed. Im open to him giving it a go again next year but he has to be willing to take more risks with the players coming through and going at the opposition in games playing to our natural skill strengths. I dont believe that mayo team are better than kerry and it must be said all the games stood to them unlike the lack of games we had this year and the sooner we have a better cork side back in munster the better it will be for us. The extra games next year will help.
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Post by gaelicden on Aug 27, 2017 20:41:20 GMT
All has gone quiet with mark since his debut . He is back with the reserves now. The next 12 months will tell a lot. What else has diarmuid Murphy done on the coaching front? A few other names to throw out there would be Donal daly, mike quirke, Declan, Tommy griffin. Not saying they are the next manager but just guys who could be involved. should there be a change of manager surely Pat O'Shea is a great candidate, has managed his club and county to all Ireland titles Overheard a conversation today regarding who could be a replacement, the old lad was talking about Pat O'Shea and training schedules (I know we don't see Kerry trainings no more, and yes the man was a lifetime crokes supporter). He believes pat much better with training and managing than fitzmaurice, however if he were to be given the job, has he proven himself since the first stint and would there be any baggage left from 2007/8 ? |
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Post by winter on Aug 27, 2017 20:48:17 GMT
Been a fan of EF with what he has done with a number of players that are not in the calibre of what we had 10/12 years ago. I think the youth players will only start hitting the age now that they can be brought through (it was an eye opener to see how the U21s performed against Galway, time is needed). He obviously has faith in Jack Savage being the first sub the last day. Tom O Sullivan starting (I agree a lot to ask of the lad) id say McCarthy would have started if not injured and Barry started. I expect a lot more youth to come through in the league, including a goalie change, as he will know they have to be brought in (we said it last year but when you look at the U21s it may have been too soon but a few lads did come in) and hopefully Clifford can be the exception to go straight from minor to senior which hasnt happened in a long time. As somebody mentioned some lads been on the extended panel the last two years so hopefully their conditioning is progressing. However even the backs coming through none are of the physique needed when you look at some of the Mayo and Dublin players so more is needed than just youth and pace. We need to see if any club players at ages 24/25 are playing club football that can come in to add some needed physicality to balance the squad, really missed o mahony this year, not every good footballer played minor or U21, some guys can blossom a bit later,its rare but it happens. As i said i have been a fan of EF but i fear he is a cautious manager at the business end (2013 semi aside) and i am unsure whether he can bring the young players through as i would want or whether a more positive aggressive thinking manager is needed. Im open to him giving it a go again next year but he has to be willing to take more risks with the players coming through and going at the opposition in games playing to our natural skill strengths. I dont believe that mayo team are better than kerry and it must be said all the games stood to them unlike the lack of games we had this year and the sooner we have a better cork side back in munster the better it will be for us. The extra games next year will help. |
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Post by winter on Aug 27, 2017 20:51:13 GMT
We will improve when the county panel are playing county league and county championship during the summer instesd of being stuck behind closed doors in Killarney.
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Post by westmeathman on Aug 27, 2017 20:51:33 GMT
Been a fan of EF with what he has done with a number of players that are not in the calibre of what we had 10/12 years ago. I think the youth players will only start hitting the age now that they can be brought through (it was an eye opener to see how the U21s performed against Galway, time is needed). He obviously has faith in Jack Savage being the first sub the last day. Tom O Sullivan starting (I agree a lot to ask of the lad) id say McCarthy would have started if not injured and Barry started. I expect a lot more youth to come through in the league, including a goalie change, as he will know they have to be brought in (we said it last year but when you look at the U21s it may have been too soon but a few lads did come in) and hopefully Clifford can be the exception to go straight from minor to senior which hasnt happened in a long time. As somebody mentioned some lads been on the extended panel the last two years so hopefully their conditioning is progressing. However even the backs coming through none are of the physique needed when you look at some of the Mayo and Dublin players so more is needed than just youth and pace. We need to see if any club players at ages 24/25 are playing club football that can come in to add some needed physicality to balance the squad, really missed o mahony this year, not every good footballer played minor or U21, some guys can blossom a bit later,its rare but it happens. As i said i have been a fan of EF but i fear he is a cautious manager at the business end (2013 semi aside) and i am unsure whether he can bring the young players through as i would want or whether a more positive aggressive thinking manager is needed. Im open to him giving it a go again next year but he has to be willing to take more risks with the players coming through and going at the opposition in games playing to our natural skill strengths. I dont believe that mayo team are better than kerry and it must be said all the games stood to them unlike the lack of games we had this year and the sooner we have a better cork side back in munster the better it will be for us. The extra games next year will help. Dublin had no competitive fixture since the league final and they were awesome today.not an excuse in my books |
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