keane
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Post by keane on Jun 21, 2017 11:07:24 GMT
This is correct. To restate the final piece of the puzzle for those who haven't followed it, in this situation Galway and Mayo won't be drawn to play one another again, so the only fixture that can be made will be Mayo vs Kerry. Why can't mayo play Galway? Kerry played Clare last year. Has the rule changed? The alternative to Kerry playing Clare was Kerry playing Tipp. You absolutely can't play the same team you beat in the provincial final, and where possible you can't play a team you played in earlier rounds. In the case above, Donegal haven't played anyone before while Mayo will have played Galway before. To avoid repeats Kerry play Mayo.
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keane
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Post by keane on Jun 21, 2017 11:11:09 GMT
There are only two ways we don't play Mayo in the QF (assuming Galway win Connacht, which isn't nailed on tbf):
1. Mayo are gone before then 2. Mayo are still in and Roscommon get through as well
You can't replay a provincial final, you avoid replaying provincial matches where possible.
If Mayo get through and Roscommon get through then in order to avoid repeated Connacht final we play Roscommon, Galway and Mayo play again.
If Mayo get through and someone other than Roscommon gets through (Cork, Donegal, etc) then in order to avoid repeats we play Mayo, Galway play whoever.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jun 21, 2017 11:23:23 GMT
There are only two ways we don't play Mayo in the QF (assuming Galway win Connacht, which isn't nailed on tbf): 1. Mayo are gone before then 2. Mayo are still in and Roscommon get through as well You can't replay a provincial final, you avoid replaying provincial matches where possible. If Mayo get through and Roscommon get through then in order to avoid repeated Connacht final we play Roscommon, Galway and Mayo play again. If Mayo get through and someone other than Roscommon gets through (Cork, Donegal, etc) then in order to avoid repeats we play Mayo, Galway play whoever. 3. Kerry lose the Munster final
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keane
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Post by keane on Jun 21, 2017 11:25:07 GMT
3. Kerry lose the Munster final That too.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jun 22, 2017 11:21:56 GMT
Odd that there are 2 games fixed for 6:30pm on Sunday evening; Offaly v Cavan and Fermanagh v Armagh. Outside games in New York and London, I can't ever remember Championship games being played that late on a Sunday.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 22, 2017 11:43:41 GMT
Odd that there are 2 games fixed for 6:30pm on Sunday evening; Offaly v Cavan and Fermanagh v Armagh. Outside games in New York and London, I can't ever remember Championship games being played that late on a Sunday. Pairc Ui Chaoimh, 2002 replay.
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keane
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Post by keane on Jun 22, 2017 14:14:54 GMT
Odd that there are 2 games fixed for 6:30pm on Sunday evening; Offaly v Cavan and Fermanagh v Armagh. Outside games in New York and London, I can't ever remember Championship games being played that late on a Sunday. Read somewhere that it's to give people volunteering at Feile time to get in to see the matches.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jun 23, 2017 14:52:22 GMT
It is very hard to find anything interesting about Westmeath and Dublin on Sunday. Westmeath dropped through the league year after year until they hit the bottom. I don’t think Cribben is up to much as a manager and has held his job purely because they were lucky enough to avoid Dublin in Leinster until the final for 2 years in a row.
The only thing that is worth looking out for is how Dublin are progressing at finding a commanding midfielder. Fenton can do a particular job there but they need a Sean Kavanagh or Darragh O’Sé. In the league final they experimented with Reddin but his card was marked in the second half when David Moran effortlessly extended his telescopic arm to flick a ball down for himself, a ball that Reddin was initially in a much better position than David to win.
McCarthy got the position in the last match but he is not exactly the player for that position. Funny how no player from the imagined second best team in the country (Dublin reserves) can step into reality and solve the problem.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 23, 2017 15:49:45 GMT
It is very hard to find anything interesting about Westmeath and Dublin on Sunday. Westmeath dropped through the league year after year until they hit the bottom. I don’t think Cribben is up to much as a manager and has held his job purely because they were lucky enough to avoid Dublin in Leinster until the final for 2 years in a row. The only thing that is worth looking out for is how Dublin are progressing at finding a commanding midfielder. Fenton can do a particular job there but they need a Sean Kavanagh or Darragh O’Sé. In the league final they experimented with Reddin but his card was marked in the second half when David Moran effortlessly extended his telescopic arm to flick a ball down for himself, a ball that Reddin was initially in a much better position than David to win. McCarthy got the position in the last match but he is not exactly the player for that position. Funny how no player from the imagined second best team in the country (Dublin reserves) can step into reality and solve the problem. McCarthy wore the midfielders jersey but I thought it was Kilkenny that was midfield from the bits and pieces I tuned into on the TV. Maybe out Dub contributors will confirm. Kerry are one injury away from being very, very suspect in midfield IMO.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 23, 2017 16:30:56 GMT
It is very hard to find anything interesting about Westmeath and Dublin on Sunday. Westmeath dropped through the league year after year until they hit the bottom. I don’t think Cribben is up to much as a manager and has held his job purely because they were lucky enough to avoid Dublin in Leinster until the final for 2 years in a row. The only thing that is worth looking out for is how Dublin are progressing at finding a commanding midfielder. Fenton can do a particular job there but they need a Sean Kavanagh or Darragh O’Sé. In the league final they experimented with Reddin but his card was marked in the second half when David Moran effortlessly extended his telescopic arm to flick a ball down for himself, a ball that Reddin was initially in a much better position than David to win. McCarthy got the position in the last match but he is not exactly the player for that position. Funny how no player from the imagined second best team in the country (Dublin reserves) can step into reality and solve the problem. McCarthy wore the midfielders jersey but I thought it was Kilkenny that was midfield from the bits and pieces I tuned into on the TV. Maybe out Dub contributors will confirm. Kerry are one injury away from being very, very suspect in midfield IMO. Ironic considering the number of players we have that can play there.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 23, 2017 16:32:10 GMT
It is very hard to find anything interesting about Westmeath and Dublin on Sunday. Westmeath dropped through the league year after year until they hit the bottom. I don’t think Cribben is up to much as a manager and has held his job purely because they were lucky enough to avoid Dublin in Leinster until the final for 2 years in a row. The only thing that is worth looking out for is how Dublin are progressing at finding a commanding midfielder. Fenton can do a particular job there but they need a Sean Kavanagh or Darragh O’Sé. In the league final they experimented with Reddin but his card was marked in the second half when David Moran effortlessly extended his telescopic arm to flick a ball down for himself, a ball that Reddin was initially in a much better position than David to win. McCarthy got the position in the last match but he is not exactly the player for that position. Funny how no player from the imagined second best team in the country (Dublin reserves) can step into reality and solve the problem. I wasn't very impressed with Cribbin's attitude on the GAA Hour. Simply doesn't believe his team can win the final. Maybe I have this arseways.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 23, 2017 16:36:21 GMT
It is very hard to find anything interesting about Westmeath and Dublin on Sunday. Westmeath dropped through the league year after year until they hit the bottom. I don’t think Cribben is up to much as a manager and has held his job purely because they were lucky enough to avoid Dublin in Leinster until the final for 2 years in a row. The only thing that is worth looking out for is how Dublin are progressing at finding a commanding midfielder. Fenton can do a particular job there but they need a Sean Kavanagh or Darragh O’Sé. In the league final they experimented with Reddin but his card was marked in the second half when David Moran effortlessly extended his telescopic arm to flick a ball down for himself, a ball that Reddin was initially in a much better position than David to win. McCarthy got the position in the last match but he is not exactly the player for that position. Funny how no player from the imagined second best team in the country (Dublin reserves) can step into reality and solve the problem. I wasn't very impressed with Cribbin's attitude on the GAA Hour. Simply doesn't believe his team can win the final. Maybe I have this arseways. Maybe that's because they are not in the final?
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 23, 2017 16:37:48 GMT
It is very hard to find anything interesting about Westmeath and Dublin on Sunday. Westmeath dropped through the league year after year until they hit the bottom. I don’t think Cribben is up to much as a manager and has held his job purely because they were lucky enough to avoid Dublin in Leinster until the final for 2 years in a row. The only thing that is worth looking out for is how Dublin are progressing at finding a commanding midfielder. Fenton can do a particular job there but they need a Sean Kavanagh or Darragh O’Sé. In the league final they experimented with Reddin but his card was marked in the second half when David Moran effortlessly extended his telescopic arm to flick a ball down for himself, a ball that Reddin was initially in a much better position than David to win. McCarthy got the position in the last match but he is not exactly the player for that position. Funny how no player from the imagined second best team in the country (Dublin reserves) can step into reality and solve the problem. McCarthy wore the midfielders jersey but I thought it was Kilkenny that was midfield from the bits and pieces I tuned into on the TV. Maybe out Dub contributors will confirm. Kerry are one injury away from being very, very suspect in midfield IMO. Possibly true of most teams. Dublin without Fenton?
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jun 23, 2017 19:37:20 GMT
It is very hard to find anything interesting about Westmeath and Dublin on Sunday. Westmeath dropped through the league year after year until they hit the bottom. I don’t think Cribben is up to much as a manager and has held his job purely because they were lucky enough to avoid Dublin in Leinster until the final for 2 years in a row. The only thing that is worth looking out for is how Dublin are progressing at finding a commanding midfielder. Fenton can do a particular job there but they need a Sean Kavanagh or Darragh O’Sé. In the league final they experimented with Reddin but his card was marked in the second half when David Moran effortlessly extended his telescopic arm to flick a ball down for himself, a ball that Reddin was initially in a much better position than David to win. McCarthy got the position in the last match but he is not exactly the player for that position. Funny how no player from the imagined second best team in the country (Dublin reserves) can step into reality and solve the problem. Reddin got two fine points in the league final, before being hauled
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jun 23, 2017 19:39:26 GMT
McCarthy wore the midfielders jersey but I thought it was Kilkenny that was midfield from the bits and pieces I tuned into on the TV. Maybe out Dub contributors will confirm. Kerry are one injury away from being very, very suspect in midfield IMO. Possibly true of most teams. Dublin without Fenton? Too true
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jun 24, 2017 2:34:32 GMT
Don't think Cribben any great shakes but unless Dublin have regressed significantly or are bang out of form etc it's hard to make a case for WM to "go out and have a go", I wouldn't if I was them. They will have learned from the last two years and should just keep tweaking it, the main issue for them is to be as fit going down the last 15 or 10 minutes, so that if they can keep it fairly tight for the first 50 then they can "go for it" or hope to hang in there for longer and snatch a late goal or two. If it's wet of course it would help too. I'd have Kk all day at midfield ahead of McCarthy, who runs mostly in straight lines, not a roaming sort of player, not a distributor in the class of Kk, nor play-maker, and Kk has a great spring too. Leave McC where he is, or only perhaps move to CHB if COS is indeed, as he appears to me, in decline, or not fit.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2017 10:32:37 GMT
Main rivals growing desperate to derail Dublin juggernaut
Should Jim Gavin’s men see off Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo etc what next for the GAA?
Keith Duggan
Many of us sitting in the Canal Stand on the afternoon of August 28th, 2011 couldn’t really concentrate on the actual All-Ireland semi-final between Dublin and Donegal because we were too busy watching what was happening between Neil McGee and Bernard Brogan.
Once the teams parted ways after the national anthem, the Gweedore man rumbled over to Brogan and the pair exchanged the briefest public handshake on record since Khruskhev and Kennedy came face to face in Vienna.
Before the ball was even thrown in, McGee fronted Brogan but stood with his back to the field so that he was facing the Dublin forward eyeball to eyeball, his hands raised like a high priest – but the kind of high priest who might feature in the visions of Ozzie Osbourne. What followed was an hour of intense, up close and personal scrutiny by the Donegal defender.
It wasn’t so much a question of whether Brogan needed to appeal to the umpires as apply to the courts for some kind of barring order. “Never seen anything like it in me life,” Brogan would say of that game on television after the Dubs had come through what would become known as the most notorious defensive test of the modern game. McGee’s defensive work was darkly brilliant that day, but of lasting significance was Brogan’s unblinking patience. He wasn’t fazed and was there, psychologically and physically, to land the point (0-4 out of the 0-8 total) which shook Donegal off.
It’s important to remember what Dublin represented that day: a big team, yes; a boisterous day out in the capital, for sure; but also a nostalgia factory. The best of them seemed wrapped up in the era of Thin Lizzy, chopper bikes and the tarmac’d Grafton Street cluttered with Ford Cortinas.
How many people really believed Dublin had the sand to go and win the All-Ireland that summer and become the urban army that electrified the GAA in the 1970s?
The world of Gaelic football is now six years into an era where Dublin have not just returned as an All-Ireland-winning force but have thrown the ecosystem into chaos. There is a strong argument to be made that the Dublin the rest of Ireland fear, loathe and admire in equal measure was born that day. The story of Pat Gilroy’s role in the city’s team transformation has never been fully or adequately told and it’s unlikely to be, at least not by the man himself.
Startled earwigs After watching his team fall apart against Kerry in 2009, Gilroy memorably likened his team to “startled earwigs.” (And the Dubs had been torpedoed, remember, by Tyrone in the summer of 2008; they were edging towards a label of damaged goods). But two years later, they bolted clear of Kerry in the All-Ireland final and the genie has been out of the bottle since.
Gilroy also introduced the notion of Dublin as corporate entity, with early morning press conferences and a kind of distancing of the team from the public grasp.
Jim Gavin came in and enhanced that culture to an unprecedented degree, inculcating a uniformity of message and language and an inviolable rule of team over individual. It has reached the stage where those of us on the outside can quickly form the impression that Dublin, in full championship flow, makes Google appear like a half-assed operation. For decades, Dublin’s failure to get their act together at intercounty level was used as a stick to beat them with. They had the population, the clubs, the infrastructure, the tradition and played all their games in Croke Park but were bagging All-Irelands at a rate of one per generation.
Now, the city clubs are thriving and by all accounts oversubscribed with youngsters up for being the next Philly McMahon or Bernard Brogan. Howls of national outrage understandably emanated throughout the country when it emerged the GAA had channelled €1.46 million at Dublin in 2014 in development funding, more than all other counties received.
The perception created by the figure was of Dublin as the Real Madrid of Gaelic games. The criticism of the financial contribution is inevitable but inadvertently denigrates the work and commitment of players like Paul Flynn, Stephen Cluxton and Brogan to elevate their game through graft and incredible hunger.
Right now, opinion is split as to whether Dublin as a force will begin to fade with this team or whether they have already set in motion a system which will facilitate a squad capable of dominating the All-Ireland scene in perpetuity. This championship seems like the battleground for both those alternatives.
Nobody out there gives Westmeath a snowball’s chance on Sunday. That team huddle in advance of the 2004 Leinster final, when the late Páidí Ó Sé channelled the deities of west Kerry and infused the Midlanders with boldness – “We have to crash into these fellas and test their f*****g pulse” – seems to belong to a state of play which cannot be seen again. Glass ceiling
But the national responses to Dublin’s reinvention have been rousing. Kerry’s win in the league demonstrated what many people had begun to disbelieve: that it was possible to beat them. (It must be the first time in the history of the GAA that a Kerry win was seen as a strike against The Man).
Last Sunday suggested that only now is the full vision of Mickey Harte’s masterplan for Tyrone beginning to take shape. Kildare have started their resurgence and there is a sense that whatever happens in Ulster this year will not be leave Monaghan content and that this is their year to burst through their quarter-final glass ceiling.
One of the main intrigues of Sunday’s game is whether Bernard Brogan can reclaim a starting place in a squad teeming with young forwards. His reduced role last summer seemed like a sign of the times; proof that Dublin had superior options even to Brogan. But that’s still unproven.
What Brogan developed into was a kind of one-off: a tall, elusive scoring forward who can, crucially, play with his back to goal and who has developed, through years of being there, an uncanny positional guile for being in just the right place at just the right time.
His mere presence on the field, deep-lying and to the right of the opposition goal, is a distraction and worry for defensive units and managers always have to dedicate a marker to cover him. Brogan’s scores have killed games; ended teams. In the six years since he faced down Neil McGee, Brogan has proven indispensible to Dublin and that remains true this summer. There may be hope here for other teams in that it is not always as simple as bringing new guys through.
The strongest teams out there have recalibrated and reconfigured their approach and thinking to try and reach the standard set by Dublin. There is a sense that a few of the best teams are going to throw everything at the next few months.
Tomorrow will be just another day in paradise for Dublin; a parade of expansiveness. But something has to give. Either Dublin will be beaten. Or the others will be forced to accept that their best effort won’t be good enough. And what if that is turns out to be the reality? That’s the question the GAA must hope does not arise.
What then?
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2017 10:36:54 GMT
It will be fascinating to watch whether Dublin football will go into decline (like the KK hurlers) when great players like Cluxton, BB, MDMA retire or will the weight of numbers and ultra professional set up by Dublin now (compared to previously) ensure success in perpetuity.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 24, 2017 12:08:47 GMT
The Dubs are perfectly setup to become the first semi professionals in the GAA, centre of population and economics in the country. Just a matter of time before some bright young player sets himself up as "concentrating full time on football & education". I look forward to seeing it as the new model and way forward for inter county players.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2017 12:16:03 GMT
Westmeath are punching above their weight in my view. Others like Kildare and Meath have slipped back compared to the 1990s. Westmeath havent. Was Paids team any better?
Their u21 hurlers went toe to toe with KK on Wed night. They are still standing after the round robin Leinster hurling championship. Their u21 hurlers beat KK last year. For a small county they are a credit.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jun 24, 2017 12:25:16 GMT
The Dubs are perfectly setup to become the first semi professionals in the GAA, centre of population and economics in the country. Just a matter of time before some bright young player sets himself up as "concentrating full time on football & education". I look forward to seeing it as the new model and way forward for inter county players. They had to change the rules of the sigerson cup due to Paul Flynn's attempts to do the above! So it's already in full swing! *not just for the dubs
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 24, 2017 12:49:20 GMT
Rugby had "Dummy jobs" back in the day during shamateurism. It would be interesting to see a young David Campese type figure emerge in the GAA world. Campese was probably the first professional rugby Union player. Will Carling and Campese dispute the title of first millionaire Rugby Union player.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2017 13:18:50 GMT
Carling got stamped on one time in a ruck and he asked his teamtimes did they see who did it
"it could have been anyone of the 29 of us" was the reply
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2017 18:45:23 GMT
Half time between Down and Monaghan.
Down 10 Monaghan 8
Down got 5 points on the trot from about 20 mins on.
The Monaghan leaders must step up in the second half.
good open game
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 24, 2017 19:41:01 GMT
Down were full value for that win even if the penalty call was suspect enough.
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Post by southward on Jun 24, 2017 19:52:27 GMT
Enjoyable stuff. Congrats to Down. I thought the ref gave them nothing in the last quarter.
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Post by seaniebo on Jun 24, 2017 20:14:27 GMT
Serious setback for Monaghan.. Many fancied them to take Tyrone in the final. Another big fish fired into the qualifiers.
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Aodhan
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Post by Aodhan on Jun 24, 2017 21:40:11 GMT
It would be great if we could get Down somewhere along the way. That is one record that badly needs to end.
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Post by onlykerry on Jun 24, 2017 22:21:27 GMT
It would be great if we could get Down somewhere along the way. That is one record that badly needs to end. Careful what you wish for - I was delighted when we got them in 2010 and was full sure the record would be set right that year - was not to be .......
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Post by thebluepanther on Jun 24, 2017 22:28:55 GMT
It will be fascinating to watch whether Dublin football will go into decline (like the KK hurlers) when great players like Cluxton, BB, MDMA retire or will the weight of numbers and ultra professional set up by Dublin now (compared to previously) ensure success in perpetuity. It's about having the players with the right attitude. Weight of numbers is of no use if the right players arent there ( although i agree it increases your percentages) In the modern game consistency is the hardest part. Mayo have now lost in Connaught the last two years where for whatever reasons they didn't perform Monaghon tonight didn't fully take Down as a threat and payed the price. Tipperary hurlers won AllIreland last year were hailed as being on a different level to other teams but currently find themselves out of Munster championship. To be successful consistantly now in the Gaa takes huge focus and self drive , money alone can't buy that. Dublin are consistantly winning the big games (albeit by slim margins) , that has nothing to do with ultra professionalism, that's guys not giving up when the chips are down and having the ability to punish teams . Has the pack got closer, Kerry seem to feel they have but the league finaleaders wins relevance won't be fully able to be analysed till this year's championship is over. Dublin I feel need two new players to shine this year to stay at the top, if not Kerry or Tyrone i feel could topple them. Although I hope league final loss will give the lads a new drive and take away some of the hunger Kerry had in their quest to eventually beat Dublin under EF.
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