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Post by Mickmack on Sept 20, 2017 8:45:00 GMT
Cillian oConnor was 19 when he got 1.03 against Kerry in the 2011 championship.
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Post by veteran on Sept 20, 2017 11:01:49 GMT
I am not too worked up about whether David is parachuted in or not next year. Certainly get him into the senior set up and let him the feel of things there and after that I would leave it up to the respective u21/senior management. The reason I am not too perturbed about this is because it is backs we are crying out for. It is more important that the likes of Jason, Tom O'Suillivan , Brian O'Beaglaigh, Gavin White , Ronan Shanahan, Gavin Crowley, Shane Ryan etc are given extended runs. I have repeatedly suggested here that Peter Crowley should be shunted to the full back line where we are particularly weak. On top of that , pass the hat around to entice Donnie Buckley back to teach our defenders how to tackle. Mix these young boys up with the likes of Peter, Tadgh Morley and Paul Murphy under the guiding hand of Donnie and we have our foundation.
Overall, about half a dozen or more should be culled. It would be invidious to name names but I am not exclusively talking about our older brethren , some of whom should be retained e.g. KD for their leadership and guile.
If the aforementioned is achieved , the addition of the golden boy up front is the jam on the cake.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 20, 2017 11:35:10 GMT
Something will have to be done about these successful minor teams.
God be with the days when there was war on the minor thread because John Kennedy or who ever was ignoring such and such a player and the minor title was something that other counties won.
We had to make do with with discussions about 3inarow for the seniors.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 20, 2017 12:53:26 GMT
I am not too worked up about whether David is parachuted in or not next year. Certainly get him into the senior set up and let him the feel of things there and after that I would leave it up to the respective u21/senior management. The reason I am not too perturbed about this is because it is backs we are crying out for. It is more important that the likes of Jason, Tom O'Suillivan , Brian O'Beaglaigh, Gavin White , Ronan Shanahan, Gavin Crowley, Shane Ryan etc are given extended runs. I have repeatedly suggested here that Peter Crowley should be shunted to the full back line where we are particularly weak. On top of that , pass the hat around to entice Donnie Buckley back to teach our defenders how to tackle. Mix these young boys up with the likes of Peter, Tadgh Morley and Paul Murphy under the guiding hand of Donnie and we have our foundation. Overall, about half a dozen or more should be culled. It would be invidious to name names but I am not exclusively talking about our older brethren , some of whom should be retained e.g. KD for their leadership and guile. If the aforementioned is achieved , the addition of the golden boy up front is the jam on the cake. I fully agree with your middle paragraph. Below are the teams & subs from the 2 games against Mayo. I make it 24 players used. I think 10 should go, 12 definitely stay (includes Donaghy) and 2 borderline cases who would get the benefit of the doubt and stay. Drawn game Brian Kelly; Shane Enright, Mark Griffin, Killian Young; Peter Crowley, Tadhg Morley, Paul Murphy; David Moran, Anthony Maher; Michael Geaney, Johnny Buckley, Stephen O'Brien; Paul Geaney, Kieran Donaghy, James O'Donoghue. Subs Jack Savage for Michael Geaney (22), Jonathan Lyne for Mark Griffin (HT), Jack Barry for Anthony Maher (HT), Darran O’Sullivan for Johnny Buckley (54), Barry John Keane for James O’Donoghue (62), Bryan Sheehan for Kieran Donaghy (70).
Replay Brian Kelly; Tadhg Morley, Shane Enright, Killian Young; Jonathan Lyne, Peter Crowley, Tom O’Sullivan; David Moran, Jack Barry; Donnchadh Walsh, Johnny Buckley, Stephen O’Brien; Paul Geaney, Kieran Donaghy, Paul Murphy. Subs Darran O’Sullivan for Walsh HT; James O’Donoghue for Buckley HT; Fionn Fitzgerald for Enright 38 mins; Jack Savage for Darran O’Sullivan 44 mins (black card); Mark Griffin for Young 50 mins; Barry John Keane for Tom O’Sullivan 62 mins
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 20, 2017 13:33:43 GMT
lots of lads have gone straight into seniors from minors over the last 20 years. gooch, declan, darren 3 recent enough examples, pretty sure david moran and tommy walsh also went in before they were 20 along with killian young and brian sheehan. mike frank, maurice fitz, seamus and darragh, tomas and marc o shea also other examples of lads who were all playing senior football before they were 20. maybe the game has changed, but this has only seemed to dry up under fitzmaurice, who likes to bed lads in when they are 22 or 23. Tomas was 20 we he played senior inter county with Kerry i 1998. He was destroyed in he first half of the Munster Final that year. Marc was 21/22 before he played senior inter county with Kerry as well. Things have changed over the years. Players are stronger, there is less space. Traditionally the league games before Christmas were we you would try you lads. I have no problem playing Clifford if he is able for it. I don't want to see him selected just because its what the public wants. I know Eamonn is slow to introduce young lads but, we have to be sensible as well. If he goes in and does well in trial games then fine but, if he is getting horsed out of it by the like of Griffin, Crowley etc then it might be better to let him step up to the U20's. As I have said previously we have far more pressing problems to fix. Even if he is Maurice Fitz reborn we still need to sort out our defence, midfield and half forward line. With the best will in the world with the rate that our defence is conceding goal chances etc (especially against top teams) he would want to be scoring 6-7 points every game for us. Lets say we did line up with a Geaney - Clifford - JOD full forward line next year. Based on our half forward line and midfield woes we still would struggle to get them good quality ball. I am not saying to forget about Clifford. But, I would be far happier to see a sound defence etc in place for next years championship than a fantastic forward line with the same failings at the back. if we could do the two that would be fantastic
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 20, 2017 14:10:08 GMT
You are right about the defence being the priority.
No one is saying that he get his place just because of his exploits at minor level. Of course he must show signs that he can adjust to the higher level.
It would not be fair to start him in the FF line as mentioned - he cannot be played in a central position initially. He should be in the corner. That way he can take the "hard men" out the wing, run them, turn them, make space and shoot. As his confidence grows he will take balls in the centre.
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Post by himself on Sept 20, 2017 15:54:31 GMT
I don't have the actual numbers to hand, but I did check them before going back to '62, and the correlation between U21 success and subsequent senior success is huge compared to the correlation between minor and senior success. The last thing I want is the likes of Sean O'Shea, Andrew Barry, or David Clifford playing in the McGrath Cup (which is a waste of time as a competition anyway, it hinders both counties and colleges) or a few token league runs and being left on the bench and held from their clubs for much of the year, a pattern that has happened to far too many good footballers in recent years. In short, my priority for next year would be integrating the success at minor level into U20, rather than senior. For that matter, I think the Juniors can play a strong role in that pathway. In generations past, you could take lads well used to walking, cycling, working on farms, etc, and they would be able to match the physicality of a lot of inter-county players. With modern sports science and nutrition, those days are long gone and the vbery rare exceptions, e.g. Paddy McBrearty, only highlight the more usual trend. I'd be very slow bringing in lads straight into senior, and even then I'd want fringe players to be available for club games (I know, blasphemy according to any inter-county manager out there). Festina lente, as an old teacher used to say to me. My latin isn't great. I think it means "party during Lent".
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 20, 2017 20:54:49 GMT
Leaving DC to one side for a minute, doesnt that lad Barry o Mahony look a serious prospect .
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Post by veteran on Sept 20, 2017 21:08:32 GMT
Leaving DC to one side for a minute, doesnt that lad Barry o Mahony look a serious prospect . Barry of course is a son of former Crotta and Kerry hurler, Brendan. I think Brendan may have played for Munster also. The apple doesn't drift too far away. Brendan has a butcher"s shop in Listowel for several years. Barry plays his club football with St. Senans. I presume he will be devoting time to hurling as well in the coming years .
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Post by southward on Sept 20, 2017 21:18:45 GMT
Had to feel for the Derry lads last Sunday. That's a awful trouncing for young fellas to get on the biggest day of their lives.
They certainly looked better than that in the semi-final and the decider had been regarded as anything but a foregone conclusion.
Fair dues to them for not setting up all defensive on the day, though maybe they wish they had.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 20, 2017 21:21:15 GMT
Leaving DC to one side for a minute, doesnt that lad Barry o Mahony look a serious prospect . Barry of course is a son of former Crotta and Kerry hurler, Brendan. I think Brendan may have played for Munster also. The apple doesn't drift too far away. Brendan has a butcher"s shop in Listowel for several years. Barry plays his club football with St. Senans. I presume he will be devoting time to hurling as well in the coming years . I remember brendan well. Did Barry play with senans in the nk championship last year.....they reached the final.
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Post by veteran on Sept 20, 2017 22:09:04 GMT
Barry of course is a son of former Crotta and Kerry hurler, Brendan. I think Brendan may have played for Munster also. The apple doesn't drift too far away. Brendan has a butcher"s shop in Listowel for several years. Barry plays his club football with St. Senans. I presume he will be devoting time to hurling as well in the coming years . I remember brendan well. Did Barry play with senans in the nk championship last year.....they reached the final. Not that I can recall. He did play in North Kerry minor final of 2016 against Listowel which was played in Duagh in January 2017. This was.a great match , narrowly won by Listowel. Barry played at midfield where he was hugely imrpressove . One of his midfield opponents was Bryan Sweeney,. The best player on the field that day was Neil Collins who played at full back for Kerry minors in 2016 with Bryan .
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 20, 2017 22:15:28 GMT
thanks for that Veteran.
Crotta beat Lixnaw in the minor hurling championship tonight in Abbeydorney. I wonder was Barry playing
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 20, 2017 22:17:56 GMT
2017 minor football final
Kerry v Derry
2014 minor final
2015 minor final Kerry v Tipp
The 2016 one to follow
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Post by Paddy03 on Sept 21, 2017 5:53:42 GMT
New blood coming thru... A new Golden age of Kerry football ahead .🍺
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Post by Paddy03 on Sept 21, 2017 5:58:43 GMT
Hopefully, this is the beginning of another Kerry dynasty...
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Post by homerj on Sept 21, 2017 8:49:22 GMT
our half forward line is as big a problem as the backs lads.
finding a center back to shut up shop is next in line. full back line got destroyed due to poor tactics and a large hole in front of them.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 21, 2017 9:16:43 GMT
You would have to go back to 2001 to 2003 to find a time when Kerry were so poor tactically. Totally out thought.
Even the awful but relatively simple tactic of handpassing the ball back to the keeper after receiving the short kickout was beyond them even though mayo did it repeatedly in the drawn game.
The kerry minors had no problem doing it last sunday.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 21, 2017 14:22:08 GMT
2017 minor football final Kerry v Derry 2014 minor final 2015 minor final Kerry v Tipp The 2016 one to follow Great stuff Mick
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 21, 2017 23:17:42 GMT
thanks for that Veteran. Crotta beat Lixnaw in the minor hurling championship tonight in Abbeydorney. I wonder was Barry playing Yes Barry Mahony was playing and put up a big score Michael Slattery was in good form as well for O'Dorney\Parnells and Brian Lonergan also lined out Perhaps a bit unfair on Donal O'Sullivan Kilgarvan who had to play Tuesday night for South Kerry who had a fancied team but were beaten by a point by Causeway in a very good game. O'Sullivan got the majority of South Kerry's score. Serious hurler, I would have thought he would have been entitled to an extra night go recover from Croke Pk. anyways well done to all to getting back to club games so quickly
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 21, 2017 23:19:20 GMT
Leaving DC to one side for a minute, doesnt that lad Barry o Mahony look a serious prospect . Barry of course is a son of former Crotta and Kerry hurler, Brendan. I think Brendan may have played for Munster also. The apple doesn't drift too far away. Brendan has a butcher"s shop in Listowel for several years. Barry plays his club football with St. Senans. I presume he will be devoting time to hurling as well in the coming years . His Dad Brendan better known for hurling obviously but he was a good footballer too. was a starter on the Kerry minor football team in his time
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 21, 2017 23:24:31 GMT
I am not too worked up about whether David is parachuted in or not next year. Certainly get him into the senior set up and let him the feel of things there and after that I would leave it up to the respective u21/senior management. The reason I am not too perturbed about this is because it is backs we are crying out for. It is more important that the likes of Jason, Tom O'Suillivan , Brian O'Beaglaigh, Gavin White , Ronan Shanahan, Gavin Crowley, Shane Ryan etc are given extended runs. I have repeatedly suggested here that Peter Crowley should be shunted to the full back line where we are particularly weak. On top of that , pass the hat around to entice Donnie Buckley back to teach our defenders how to tackle. Mix these young boys up with the likes of Peter, Tadgh Morley and Paul Murphy under the guiding hand of Donnie and we have our foundation. Overall, about half a dozen or more should be culled. It would be invidious to name names but I am not exclusively talking about our older brethren , some of whom should be retained e.g. KD for their leadership and guile. If the aforementioned is achieved , the addition of the golden boy up front is the jam on the cake. I d love to see Gavin White getting a good run at it. Rate him highly. You are correct re the fact that it is backs need most of all especially full back line players. I think Clifford can make an immediate impact in the forwards to be honest, maybe not the lead man or match winner but certainly a big impact. In the case of Colm Cooper when he came out of minor, my recollection is Kerry out him at senior towards the end of the league campaign, I d go the same route with David Clifford.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 22, 2017 7:07:19 GMT
The last thing you would want for DC is to experience what Sean OSe did in 2017.... "inside" in Killarney and not playing for his club or his county in the big games
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 22, 2017 7:08:24 GMT
Would anyone like to pick a minors 4inarow team from 2014 to 2017. Leave out MarkOConnor.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 22, 2017 8:46:48 GMT
Would anyone like to pick a minors 4inarow team from 2014 to 2017. Leave out MarkOConnor. Shane Ryan Mike Potts Jason Foley Tom Sullivan Briain Begley Andrew Barry Dan O'Brien Diarmuid O'Connor Barry O'Sullivan Dara Moynihan Sean O Shea Mathew Flaherty Killian Spillane David Clifford Tomas O Se
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Post by greengold35 on Sept 22, 2017 9:42:04 GMT
THe minor template has worked very well from the development squads to proper structured S & C programmes, coaches etc. One critical aspect is that we continue with our own internal minor championship even when we are in latter stages of All Ireland championship - it has worked @ minor level , why can't it work @ senior level? We lacked intensity vs Mayo plus some would say lack of fitness - really think we were stale due to long stints spent cocooned in Fitzgerald Stadium - all work & no play etc!!
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 22, 2017 10:05:17 GMT
Would anyone like to pick a minors 4inarow team from 2014 to 2017. Leave out MarkOConnor. Nice Q Just to clarify - are you talkingabout based on their current form or based on their minor form?
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 22, 2017 10:15:39 GMT
Would anyone like to pick a minors 4inarow team from 2014 to 2017. Leave out MarkOConnor. Nice Q Just to clarify - are you talkingabout based on their current form or based on their minor form? Good question. Colm didnt set the place on fire v dublin in the 2001 minor semi final. A year later and he was lighting up the senior scene. Look...i suppose i am asking for a team that is most likely to play senior and what they have done since matters in that analysis. Take bucks team there and stitch in enright, crowley, murphy, moran, paul geaney, kd and jod and that will probably be the shape of things to come in the immefiate future. I am probably forgetting a few....just thinking off the top of my head here....
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Post by thatsyourjob on Sept 22, 2017 10:49:00 GMT
Would anyone like to pick a minors 4inarow team from 2014 to 2017. Leave out MarkOConnor. 1.Shane Ryan 2.Brian O'Beaglaioch 3.Jason Foley 4.Cian Gammell 5.Dan O'Brien 6.Andrew Barry 7.Tom O'Sullivan 8.Barry O'Sullivan / Mark O'Connor 9.Mike Breen 10.Dara Moynihan 11.Sean O'Shea 12.Micheal Burns 13.Conor Geaney 14.David Clifford 15.Killian Spillane
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 22, 2017 11:00:58 GMT
Eh... Mark O'Connor!
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