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Post by southward on Sept 18, 2017 21:24:49 GMT
I might be going out on a limb here but I think Clifford has a chance. I would agree with you. His physical development should be managed over the winter. He could be introduced as a sub in league games. Depending on how he responds and considering what O'Callaghan has done for Dublin and the Cork hurlers he may be ready to play the final quarter and pick off vital scores in the championship next year not to mention kicking 45s. The biggest obstacle is Eamonn's hesitance to play young players. Perhaps as importantly, the hype around the kid, both here and nationally, needs to be managed going forward. Not that the plaudits aren't all fully deserved but if he does make the senior set-up next year or whenever, he doesn't want to be coming in on a hiding to nothing.
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Post by veteran on Sept 18, 2017 21:32:46 GMT
Was Maurice just out of minors in when he starred in 1988 Munster Final.?
Are minor players considered for young player of the year?
On a different matter on the Matt Cooper show this evening Martin Kearney claimed that Kerry blackguarded Mayo in Limerick in 2014. This guy is one of RTE's professional , dispassionate commentators!
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Post by southward on Sept 18, 2017 21:49:56 GMT
Was Maurice just out of minors in when he starred in 1988 Munster Final.? Are minor players considered for young player of the year? On a different matter on the Matt Cooper show this evening Martin Kearney claimed that Kerry blackguarded Mayo in Limerick in 2014. This guy is one of RTE's professional , dispassionate commentators! Ah well, yeah..Carney, sure you know yourself.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 18, 2017 22:03:25 GMT
So any1 care to name the players out of the 4 in a row teams that can be senior players over the next 3 years? I might be going out on a limb here but I think Clifford has a chance. Which Clifford???
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 19, 2017 5:51:09 GMT
Sure Carney commentates on local Mayo radio.
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Post by hatchetman on Sept 19, 2017 8:14:30 GMT
I might be going out on a limb here but I think Clifford has a chance. Which Clifford??? Ha, just hedging my bets
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 19, 2017 9:16:31 GMT
As well as Clifford has done in his time with the minors we need to be patient with him. No point firing him in to the seniors for a quick fix or cause the public demand it. He's sheer size helped him no end in he minors (not saying thats all he has before people jump down my throat) Hopefully his integration will be managed correctly. Lets face it he is the golden boy of GAA at the minute and every lad he comes up against will want to lay down a marker.
He has been doing the S&C work for years so he should have no problem getting the necessary bulk for the senior inter county game but it takes time. Plus where do you actually play him. He is an out and out forward really and would be wasted scrapping around the half forward line.
I'm as positive about his future as the next man but. 2019 might be before we see the best of him. Plus is it realy worth the gamble of fast tracking him with the seniors when in all reality its not our full forwards that are the problem with the senior team.
I would rather Fitzmaurice worked at getting a solid settled keeper, a solid full back line as well as a partner for Jack Barry in the middle of the field. Not to mention a functioning half forward line with a bit of pace.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 19, 2017 9:27:46 GMT
Maurice had more skills, better kicker of the ball. Foley 3, Begley 5, Barry 6, Tom Sullivan 7 Mark O'Connor 8, Sean O'Shea 11, Clifford 14, Conor Geaney. Very good centre back from Beaufort on last years team, can't think of his name. Mike Breen Very good reader of the game and the ball.
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Post by glengael on Sept 19, 2017 9:30:03 GMT
Was Maurice just out of minors in when he starred in 1988 Munster Final.? Are minor players considered for young player of the year? On a different matter on the Matt Cooper show this evening Martin Kearney claimed that Kerry blackguarded Mayo in Limerick in 2014. This guy is one of RTE's professional , dispassionate commentators! Yes. Maurice played in the 1987 team that lost the Munster Final to Cork. I think it may have been a replay, like the seniors. Stephen O'Brien was on that Cork team and I think went pretty much straight to senior the following year also. No I don't think minors are considered for Young Player of the Year. Of course Kerry blackguarded Mayo in 2014, sure that's the only way they win matches, they have no talent or skill at all, at all, at all.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 19, 2017 9:43:52 GMT
Was Maurice just out of minors in when he starred in 1988 Munster Final.? Are minor players considered for young player of the year? On a different matter on the Matt Cooper show this evening Martin Kearney claimed that Kerry blackguarded Mayo in Limerick in 2014. This guy is one of RTE's professional , dispassionate commentators! Maurice was a November baby so just missed the minor grade in 1988 by a number of weeks. It is mind boggling to think what he would have contributed to the Kerry All-Ireland winning minor team of '88. He was still 18 for that '88 Munster senior final. The Kerry minors of '87, containing the O'Dywer twins, Karl & Robby, came up short in the Munster final. Peter Keane in interview last Sunday confirmed that David Clifford was a January baby. So Maurice of summer '88 and David of summer 2017 were of similar age, Maurice just a couple of months older. We'll know straight away when David lines out for the seniors if he will be a very good Kerry forward or a great one when we see his spacial awareness in the senior game. Maurice, Gooch and Declan for example took to the senior game straight away out of minor grade like ducks to water. If David has the same attribute then he is not too young to play NFL 2018. Look at Con O'Callaghan, he has spacial awareness of the game around him in spades. He took to the senior game naturally. Mark O'Connor has it in spades also. Personally I think Kerry should be getting the young tigers in Kerry up to speed and letting them lose on the Dubs next summer. I don't believe at all that Kerry are a long way off the Dubs.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 19, 2017 9:49:08 GMT
Was Maurice just out of minors in when he starred in 1988 Munster Final.? Are minor players considered for young player of the year? On a different matter on the Matt Cooper show this evening Martin Kearney claimed that Kerry blackguarded Mayo in Limerick in 2014. This guy is one of RTE's professional , dispassionate commentators! Yes. Maurice played in the 1987 team that lost the Munster Final to Cork. I think it may have been a replay, like the seniors. Stephen O'Brien was on that Cork team and I think went pretty much straight to senior the following year also. No I don't think minors are considered for Young Player of the Year. Of course Kerry blackguarded Mayo in 2014, sure that's the only way they win matches, they have no talent or skill at all, at all, at all. Did the '87 Munster minor final go to a replay? I was trying to figure out this morning why it was played in Killarney? I've a suspicion it wasn't a replay, maybe I'm wrong however?
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Post by buck02 on Sept 19, 2017 9:59:02 GMT
Jack Connor was on Radio Kerry yesterday and he seems resigned to not having Clifford for the U20s next year.
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kot
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Post by kot on Sept 19, 2017 10:15:11 GMT
Yes. Maurice played in the 1987 team that lost the Munster Final to Cork. I think it may have been a replay, like the seniors. Stephen O'Brien was on that Cork team and I think went pretty much straight to senior the following year also. No I don't think minors are considered for Young Player of the Year. Of course Kerry blackguarded Mayo in 2014, sure that's the only way they win matches, they have no talent or skill at all, at all, at all. Did the '87 Munster minor final go to a replay? I was trying to figure out this morning why it was played in Killarney? I've a suspicion it wasn't a replay, maybe I'm wrong however? 1987 Cork 0-8 (8) 0–12 (12) Kerry 0-8 (8) 1-8 (11) Páirc Uí Chaoimh Replay – Fitzgerald Stadium Noel Twomey
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Post by hatchetman on Sept 19, 2017 11:40:57 GMT
As well as Clifford has done in his time with the minors we need to be patient with him. No point firing him in to the seniors for a quick fix or cause the public demand it. He's sheer size helped him no end in he minors (not saying thats all he has before people jump down my throat) Hopefully his integration will be managed correctly. Lets face it he is the golden boy of GAA at the minute and every lad he comes up against will want to lay down a marker. He has been doing the S&C work for years so he should have no problem getting the necessary bulk for the senior inter county game but it takes time. Plus where do you actually play him. He is an out and out forward really and would be wasted scrapping around the half forward line. I'm as positive about his future as the next man but. 2019 might be before we see the best of him. Plus is it realy worth the gamble of fast tracking him with the seniors when in all reality its not our full forwards that are the problem with the senior team. I would rather Fitzmaurice worked at getting a solid settled keeper, a solid full back line as well as a partner for Jack Barry in the middle of the field. Not to mention a functioning half forward line with a bit of pace. I agree we should not rush him but realistically if Donaghy retires who is ahead of him for the full forward line, Geaney obviously and possibly JOD ... but he is very injury prone.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Sept 19, 2017 12:48:46 GMT
The best thing for Clifford's own sake would be for him to take a leaf out of Joe canning book and delay his senior career until after his u-20 career is finished. Which will be next April 12 months at the latest. He could still follow a senior s&c programme during that time
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Sept 19, 2017 12:49:44 GMT
Peter Keane in interview last Sunday confirmed that David Clifford was a January baby. So Maurice of summer '88 and David of summer 2017 were of similar age, Maurice just a couple of months older. David Clifford was probably older on Sunday than Maurice was when he scored 10 points for the Seniors against Cork in the '88 Munster final. He went on to win an All-star that year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 13:32:14 GMT
David Clifford has to be a Kerry Senior next year. We are not good enough to leave him out. Too much class. He's already way ahead of most of the Senior Forwards. Diarmuid O'Connor too is another fine player. Very athletic.
The U20s will be very strong next year and the U17s.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 19, 2017 13:38:59 GMT
Maurice had more skills, better kicker of the ball. Foley 3, Begley 5, Barry 6, Tom Sullivan 7 Mark O'Connor 8, Sean O'Shea 11, Clifford 14, Conor Geaney. Very good centre back from Beaufort on last years team, can't think of his name. David Shaw impressed me no end. Is he still around.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 19, 2017 13:43:57 GMT
The best thing for Clifford's own sake would be for him to take a leaf out of Joe canning book and delay his senior career until after his u-20 career is finished. Which will be next April 12 months at the latest. He could still follow a senior s&c programme during that time Is the U20 competition not on during the summer. Which would rule him out for 2 seasons on senior football.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 19, 2017 17:15:43 GMT
This seems to be relevant motion
Motion 5: Proposes the abolition of the U21 grade at inter-county football level, to be replaced with an U20 grade, with players eligible to be aged between 18 and 20. It proposes no such change to the U21 grade for hurling, or at club level, in either code.
The motion includes some supplementary information on the U20 championship, in the event of the motion being passed. The competition is proposed to take place between June and August, with no replays. Drawn games will be decided by extra-time, and, in the event of that not providing a winner, by "the outcome of a sudden-death free-taking competition, the details of which shall be determined by the Central Council." The motion also proposes that any player on a team list submitted to an inter-county referee for a senior inter-county championship match in that season will not be eligible to compete in the U20 competition. The U21 grade in hurling, and at club level in both codes, will be entirely unaffected by this motion.
senior-intercounty championship match is the key here
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 19, 2017 17:34:34 GMT
This seems to be relevant motion Motion 5: Proposes the abolition of the U21 grade at inter-county football level, to be replaced with an U20 grade, with players eligible to be aged between 18 and 20. It proposes no such change to the U21 grade for hurling, or at club level, in either code. The motion includes some supplementary information on the U20 championship, in the event of the motion being passed. The competition is proposed to take place between June and August, with no replays. Drawn games will be decided by extra-time, and, in the event of that not providing a winner, by "the outcome of a sudden-death free-taking competition, the details of which shall be determined by the Central Council." The motion also proposes that any player on a team list submitted to an inter-county referee for a senior inter-county championship match in that season will not be eligible to compete in the U20 competition. The U21 grade in hurling, and at club level in both codes, will be entirely unaffected by this motion. senior-intercounty championship match is the key here It is also worth noting that the relevant list is the team list and this is taken to be 1-26. Sean O Se being left sitting on his rear end for 3-4 senior championship fixtures would have made him ineligible for the u20 even though he did not get to play senior. Would expect there will be some interesting exchanges between both managers next year - JOC would not be happy losing a player to warm the senior bench. This rule along with the point competition to determine a winner if teams are level after extra time is a serious downgrading of this competition.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 19, 2017 17:34:52 GMT
Jack Connor was on Radio Kerry yesterday and he seems resigned to not having Clifford for the U20s next year. The same must apply to Sean O'Shea.......................
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 19, 2017 17:43:30 GMT
As well as Clifford has done in his time with the minors we need to be patient with him. No point firing him in to the seniors for a quick fix or cause the public demand it. He's sheer size helped him no end in he minors (not saying thats all he has before people jump down my throat) Hopefully his integration will be managed correctly. Lets face it he is the golden boy of GAA at the minute and every lad he comes up against will want to lay down a marker. He has been doing the S&C work for years so he should have no problem getting the necessary bulk for the senior inter county game but it takes time. Plus where do you actually play him. He is an out and out forward really and would be wasted scrapping around the half forward line. I'm as positive about his future as the next man but. 2019 might be before we see the best of him. Plus is it realy worth the gamble of fast tracking him with the seniors when in all reality its not our full forwards that are the problem with the senior team. I would rather Fitzmaurice worked at getting a solid settled keeper, a solid full back line as well as a partner for Jack Barry in the middle of the field. Not to mention a functioning half forward line with a bit of pace. I agree we should not rush him but realistically if Donaghy retires who is ahead of him for the full forward line, Geaney obviously and possibly JOD ... but he is very injury prone. Paul Geaney needs to be reinstated at 14 regardless. He has become too peripheral at 13.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Sept 19, 2017 20:05:47 GMT
Was Mike Frank just out of minors in '97? Didn't he score a beautiful goal against Cavan in the semi final, fed by a sublime pass from the great one? Maybe I have the year wrong.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Sept 19, 2017 20:18:08 GMT
So any1 care to name the players out of the 4 in a row teams that can be senior players over the next 3 years? I would be thinking Shane Ryan in goals. Jason foley, Gavin White, Brian O'Beaglaioch, Tom O'Sullivan and Andrew Barry. Midfield Roibeard O'Se and Mark O'Connor🙃. In the forwards David Clifford, Sean O'Shea, Brian O'Seanachain and Killian Spillane. They'd be the Lads fighting it out in my opinion.
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Post by veteran on Sept 19, 2017 20:22:16 GMT
Was Mike Frank just out of minors in '97? Didn't he score a beautiful goal against Cavan in the semi final, fed by a sublime pass from the great one? Maybe I have the year wrong. Misteallaigh you are right about MFR's goal in 1997. He won a minor medal in 1994 .
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Post by southward on Sept 19, 2017 20:53:33 GMT
Was Mike Frank just out of minors in '97? Didn't he score a beautiful goal against Cavan in the semi final, fed by a sublime pass from the great one? Maybe I have the year wrong. Misteallaigh you are right about MFR's goal in 1997. He won a minor medal in 1994 . And here it is..
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Post by ballhopper34 on Sept 19, 2017 21:03:28 GMT
Was Mike Frank just out of minors in '97? Didn't he score a beautiful goal against Cavan in the semi final, fed by a sublime pass from the great one? Maybe I have the year wrong. Misteallaigh you are right about MFR's goal in 1997. He won a minor medal in 1994 . Mike Frank was also a minor in 1995 (lost to Cork in a replay). He made his senior debut on October 27, 1996 in Killarney v Derry in a league game, coming on as a sub and scoring a point. His first start was on Nov 10, 1996 in the league v Meath in Navan. The terracetalk.com website has the world of info on it regarding lineouts of Kerry teams going way back.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 19, 2017 22:19:16 GMT
David Clifford must get game time next year - league and champion. It would be a criminal to have him training for the next 2 years, not allowed play co league, not allowed play with the seniors, not allowed play U20 (like Sean O'Shea) and expect him to progress. I have always taken the stance the manager's decision must be respected even if it difficult to understand but to have such a talent stunted in this way would be intolerable.
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Post by homerj on Sept 19, 2017 22:50:13 GMT
lots of lads have gone straight into seniors from minors over the last 20 years. gooch, declan, darren 3 recent enough examples, pretty sure david moran and tommy walsh also went in before they were 20 along with killian young and brian sheehan.
mike frank, maurice fitz, seamus and darragh, tomas and marc o shea also other examples of lads who were all playing senior football before they were 20.
maybe the game has changed, but this has only seemed to dry up under fitzmaurice, who likes to bed lads in when they are 22 or 23.
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