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Post by Mickmack on Jul 24, 2007 20:59:02 GMT
"Tis a small thing that wont make a bit difference"
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 24, 2007 21:36:27 GMT
A Dublin v Meath quarter final would be fascinating. In the first match Dublin started without Mark Vaughan and Bernard Brogan. Similarly Meath started without Shane O Rourke and the suspended Brian Farrell. All four are key players after a few matches. Eugene Magee says in todays indo that while Meath are back in a big way they are not of all Ireland standard yet. I found that a bit strange to be honest. Maybe Galway made Meath look good.............. Time will tell. What do you really think? It's easy to be vague, but the time for sitting on the fence is over I think Meath are very good and though so the first day v dublin but they had no luck with the ref. I though they would win the replay but they under performed or werent let play.... whichever. The thing is that their style of play will trouble any team.........
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 24, 2007 23:24:45 GMT
What do you really think? It's easy to be vague, but the time for sitting on the fence is over I think Meath are very good and though so the first day v dublin but they had no luck with the ref. I though they would win the replay but they under performed or werent let play.... whichever. The thing is that their style of play will trouble any team......... I think theyve a ways to go yet, Dublin didnt play that well against them
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 25, 2007 8:22:44 GMT
According todays indo....... the referee that reffed the first Dublin v Meath game (where Geraghtys goal was disallowed and Brogan square ball goal was allowed) was appointed to referee last saturdays game between Meath and Galway.
The ref in question is Jimmy McKee from Armagh.
Meaths objections to him were so strong that the GAA changed the ref. Maurice Deegan from Laois was appointed.
I wonder what Meath felt when Deegan gave that penalty to Galway and brought Galway back from the dead.
Meath have got no break from any ref so far this year.
Its unusual apparantly to successfully object to a ref..........................
Having been at the game in question, I believe that Meath were correct and I banged on about it here afterwards.................
I cant recall any other games over the years where a referee had such an effect on the outcome of a game ( apart of course from John Bannon in drawn semi final in 2000 between Kerry and Armagh but he is in a league of his own)
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Post by lessbull on Jul 25, 2007 8:46:32 GMT
John Bannon has a special ability to give other teams all the breaks v Kerry. Can't stand him!
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BIGMAC
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Post by BIGMAC on Jul 25, 2007 9:35:35 GMT
how come then that bannon was loudly lauded last year on this site for his handling of the kerry v armagh game,hes a ref i personally cant stand and lb i dont think he gave it all against u's last year
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Post by lessbull on Jul 25, 2007 9:40:13 GMT
Ah, he wasn't himself that day the poor man
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BIGMAC
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Post by BIGMAC on Jul 25, 2007 9:42:01 GMT
as eddie moroney would say a b0llo5ks of a man ;D
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Post by lessbull on Jul 25, 2007 9:44:21 GMT
I've often called him worse myself!
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Post by buck02 on Jul 25, 2007 11:36:09 GMT
how come then that bannon was loudly lauded last year on this site for his handling of the kerry v armagh game,hes a ref i personally cant stand and lb i dont think he gave it all against u's last year Your getting mixed up Bigmac - Bannon was praised for his handling of the Fermanagh/Armagh game in 04. Last years Kerry/Armagh game was reffed by the Goldrick guy from Meath if memory serves me right, definately not by Bannon. Bannon is disliked (under-statement) down here for his handling of the 00 semi final and again for the 02 final - look at the video of it and tell me McCann didnt take 7 or 8 steps before his pass to Oisin. In a number of league games he has also screwed Kerry on numerous occasions. And dont even get me started on Brian Crowe.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 25, 2007 12:17:43 GMT
bannon isnt as bad as your man that reffed the 1982 final,he could nearly have taken all the late 14 and 21 yard frees himself infront of the goal.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 25, 2007 13:54:33 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 25, 2007 15:42:56 GMT
Is it right that a county can successfully object to a referee?
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BIGMAC
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not dead only sleeping
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Post by BIGMAC on Jul 25, 2007 17:17:29 GMT
how come then that bannon was loudly lauded last year on this site for his handling of the kerry v armagh game,hes a ref i personally cant stand and lb i dont think he gave it all against u's last year Your getting mixed up Bigmac - Bannon was praised for his handling of the Fermanagh/Armagh game in 04. Last years Kerry/Armagh game was reffed by the Goldrick guy from Meath if memory serves me right, sorry ur right it was david coldrick from meath allright,the beer in santa ponca must have blurred my sences ;D oh i still thought he was a b0ll0ck5 though
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Post by lessbull on Jul 26, 2007 8:00:09 GMT
Most of them are Bigmac ;D
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2007 8:03:11 GMT
By Martin Breheny Wednesday July 25 2007
IGNORE the official explanations - here's the simple version of happened after Armagh referee Jimmy McKee was appointed to referee the Galway-Meath All-Ireland qualifier clash last Saturday.
We don't want him, said Meath, citing what they regarded as some bad calls by McKee during their drawn Leinster quarter-final clash with Dublin. Okay, said the Referees Appointments Committee, we'll drop him. Thanks, said Meath, nice doing business with you.
Maurice Deegan of Laois was then called up as McKee's replacement. Hang on, complained Galway. Why the change? We were quite happy with McKee, but we're now playing a Leinster team at a Leinster venue under a Leinster referee. Tough, said the Appointments Committee, that's our ruling. End of story.
Actually, it's not. For the record, Deegan made an excellent job of the game, but the affair has blown a massive hole in the integrity of the system of appointing referees.
Pierce Freaney, the Appointment Committee's Croke Park-based co-ordinator, did his best yesterday to explain that the change was made purely in McKee's interest and that it had nothing to do with bowing to Meath pressure. Really?
The Appointments Committee made up of PJ McGrath (Mayo), Jimmy Dunne (Wicklow) and Dominic McCaughey (Tyrone) were happy to appoint McKee to the Galway-Meath game but changed their minds following Meath's representations. Why?
Did they accept that Meath had a point over his handling of the Dublin game? If so, why appoint him again? Otherwise, why not stand by their original decision?
Either way, they should have told Meath politely but firmly that the appointment of the referee was their business and not a Royal prerogative. By failing to do so, they have created a dangerous precedent since other counties will feel that they can influence refereeing appointments from now on.
That won't be allowed happen, insists Freaney. But how does that promise equate with the concession to Meath? And what sort of signal has it sent out?
Sadly, one that creates the impression that counties can do deal on referees. And once that happens, the system is in serious trouble.
- Martin Breheny
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BIGMAC
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Post by BIGMAC on Jul 26, 2007 8:35:13 GMT
also from the indo
Sensational revelation of ref u-turn stuns GAA Tools Print Email Search Search Go Related Articles Ref switch storm Wednesday July 25 2007
CANVASSING will not disqualify - that's the message to emerge from the GAA's refereeing appointment system after a sensational u-turn involving Armagh's Jimmy McKee and last Saturday's Galway versus Meath All-Ireland qualifier in Portlaoise.
But despite bowing to pressure from Meath to take McKee off the game, the GAA steadfastly continues to deny that counties have the power to veto refereeing appointments.
McKee was formally appointed and notified last Tuesday, but was later stood down after representations from Meath who were unhappy with his performance in the drawn Leinster quarter-final clash with Dublin on June 3 last.
He was replaced by Maurice Deegan (Laois) against whom Galway subsequently raised queries on the basis that they would be playing a Leinster team under a Leinster referee at a Leinster venue. The Appointments Committee noted Galway's position, but retained Deegan as referee.
Earlier in the week, they had reacted completely differently to Meath's objections over McKee's appointment, but have defended their decision on the basis it was done purely in the referee's interest.
They also insist that they will not be influenced by representations from counties in future and that the integrity of the appointments system remains intact.
Object
Pierce Freaney, the GAA's Croke Park-based referees' co-ordinator, said that Meath did not formally object to McKee's appointment. However they "mentioned" that they would prefer if he didn't referee the game as they were unhappy with aspects of his performance in the clash with Dublin.
"In the circumstances, we felt that it would be unfair to put him back with Meath again so soon," said Freaney. "We were thinking of the referee at all times because as a rule we don't entertain counties becoming involved in the appointment of referees. But on this occasion we felt that the right thing to do was to take Jimmy off the Meath-Galway game."
McKee has been appointed to referee next Saturday's Donegal v Monaghan qualifier, while Joe McQuillan (Cavan) will take charge of the Derry-Laois clash in Kingspan Breffni Park which means that the Leinster runners-up will be playing Ulster opposition under an Ulster referee at an Ulster venue.
It's understood that Meath's objections to McKee were based primarily on his decisions to (a) disallow a first-half goal scored by Graham Geraghty, (b) allow Alan Brogan's goal to stand despite suspicions that he was in the square ahead of the ball, and (c) the failure to award to penalty to Geraghty in the second half of the drawn clash with Dublin.
All three decisions were borderline cases and it's understood that the referees' assessor did not criticise McKee's overall performance, yet seven weeks later the Appointments Committee - comprised of PJ McGrath (Mayo), Jimmy Dunne (Wicklow) and Dominic McCaughey (Tyrone) - took Meath's opposition on board and cancelled his appointment for last Saturday's game.
They have the power to make all refereeing appointments without reference to anybody, except for the All-Ireland finals when they must liaise with the GAA President and Director-General.
Freaney said that McKee had "absolutely no problem" with standing down from the Meath-Galway game. McKee declined to comment on any aspect of the affair when contacted.
Freaney denied that it was a straight-forward case of Meath successfully applying pressure to have a referee removed and insisted that the Committee's decision was based solely on McKee's best interests.
He accepted that it would have been better if McKee hadn't been formally announced as the referee and that it looked strange that he was replaced, but was adamant that the integrity of the appointment system had not been damaged.
Hindsight
"We have to make refereeing appointments quite quickly for the qualifiers when the draws only take place the previous on the previous Sunday. In hindsight, maybe it wasn't the best move to appoint Jimmy for the Meath-Galway game but there was absolutely no question but that the decision to take him off it was done in his interests only."
Galway had no specific objections to Deegan other than the Leinster connection which was further enhanced by the fact that one of the linesmen, Thomas Quigley, is from Dublin.
"We felt that since we were playing Leinster opposition in Portlaoise, it should have been either an Ulster or a Munster referee," said John Power, the Galway Football Board secretary.
Meanwhile, Freaney also revealed that the Appointments Committee did not ascertain if Limerick's Pat O'Connor was available to referee the Galway v Kilkenny All-Ireland hurling quarter-final next Saturday.
O'Connor was originally appointed for the clash which was fixed for last Sunday, but withdrew due to work commitments and was replaced by Wexford's Dickie Murphy.
It was thought that O'Connor would be considered for the re-fixture, but Freaney said that it had been decided to stick with the Murphy appointment. Queries were raised last week as to why O'Connor wasn't asked if he was available for the original game prior to issuing the fixture details to the media.
There was considerable interest in the appointment of the referee for the Galway-Kilkenny game after Galway manager Ger Loughnane demanded that his players receive proper protection from what he portrayed as questionable Kilkenny tackling techniques.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2007 8:42:59 GMT
Bigmac... Jimmy McKee is from Armagh........
Is he highly regarded as a ref up there. He seemed behind the play a lot in the game in question and...... in my view...... a bit overawed and gave a few hometown decisions.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 26, 2007 13:47:59 GMT
Mick, I think you should write a book on yer propoganda about Jimmy McKee and the Meath-Dublin drawn match. McKee was behind the play alot alright, he didnt see the blatant fouls on Alan Brogan who was homing in on goal, and gave a free out. He also didnt see the blatant foul on Shaner Ryan, which should have been a penalty to Dublin. He didnt send GG off, which he should have Where's your mention of these incidents in all the reams you have typed about this game?
Lads, Meath get the ref changed, and get a Leinster ref & linesman for a game in Portlaoise against Connaught Opposition. Now if that had been DUblin, the Dail would be re-called, there would be a national enquiry, 3 days of mourning, and a thread with 500 posts on here & Hogan Stand. Yet this gets barely a nod....... Double standards as always lads, as always. The amount of *e refs we've had to put up with over the years deserves one of those "All-Ireland legends awards" parades before the final.
While I'm at it, I should mention there's just one souvenir copy left of the Evening Hedild 15-page pull-out about the super Dubs magnificent Triple Delany Cup Triumph - any takers? ;D
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Post by buck02 on Jul 26, 2007 14:42:59 GMT
Niall Quinn is quoted today as saying "there would be no TV or no 80,000 in Croke Park but for Dublin". So boys when you settle down to watch the Road to Croker tonight you can thanks your lucky stars for the Dubs - without them you'd be telling stories by the fire.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 26, 2007 15:00:11 GMT
All of Kerry (except the mysterious Ballyduff hurling triangle) would have you believe that if not for Kerry there would be no pure football and no real traditional Irish culture. So the rest of us can thank our lucky stars we're not all out robbing cars, playing soccer & cricket and singing God Save the Queen. We'd have no cupla focail either, if it wasnt bashed into us by those lovely Christian Bros & their mates from the southwest
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Post by hatchetman on Jul 26, 2007 15:05:41 GMT
Niall Quinn is quoted today as saying "there would be no TV or no 80,000 in Croke Park but for Dublin". So boys when you settle down to watch the Road to Croker tonight you can thanks your lucky stars for the Dubs - without them you'd be telling stories by the fire. But surely that's like saying there would be no M50 (or traffic congestion) if it wasn't for the Dubs! If the county has up to a million people and Croke Park is on their doorstep it's not difficult for 40 or 50 thousand of them to turn up 4 or 5 times a year (cos they normally don't get past the quarter final
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2007 15:17:19 GMT
Bigmac... Jimmy McKee is from Armagh........ Is he highly regarded as a ref up there. He seemed behind the play a lot in the game in question and...... in my view...... a bit overawed and gave a few hometown decisions. Bigmac .......... by any chance ........ it just occured to me....... youre not.....Jimmy McKee ......are you? I should have twigged it. Sorry!!
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 26, 2007 15:29:24 GMT
Rashers....... I have said this before......... only experience refs should be appointed to take charge of a game when one side has 75000 supporters and the other has 7000.
I never heard of Jimmy McKee before .......... did you? He was not up to it. I agree that he missed a lot on both sides but the BIG CALLS...... all went with Dublin.
Look at the Heinenen Cup.......... its a farce when you see all the home town decisions. Its highly unusual for an away team to win given that one team has all the support and most refs bottle it.
Meath were right to object. Were the GAA right to change the appointed ref? I am not so sure they were right to do so. I asked that very question on this thread yesterday!
I agree with you that winning three Provincial titles in a row is a great achievement and proof that Dublin are serious contenders now for the all Ireland
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jul 26, 2007 17:04:54 GMT
Nothing like a bit of a controvvvvasssseyyyyy when the number of matches the journos have to report on begins to dwindle!!
On another note entirely - Rashers - ye get to play at home 19 times out of 20 during the championship, in front of an incredibly partisan support of between 50k and 65k. That'll balance out any quibbles Dublin may ever have over refs. Everything else is in Dublin's favour - they just have to know how to use that advantage, and there are times when the Dublin team don't know how to do that.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 29, 2007 19:43:38 GMT
Well rashers...... you must be happy with drawing Derry. Any with Meath being paired with Tyrone the prospect of a Dublin v Meath final is now looming large on the horison. That would be the perfect riposte to those who say that the Leinster Championship is poor.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 31, 2007 18:07:32 GMT
Rashers....... I have said this before......... only experience refs should be appointed to take charge of a game when one side has 75000 supporters and the other has 7000. I never heard of Jimmy McKee before .......... did you? He was not up to it. I agree that he missed a lot on both sides but the BIG CALLS...... all went with Dublin. Look at the Heinenen Cup.......... its a farce when you see all the home town decisions. Its highly unusual for an away team to win given that one team has all the support and most refs bottle it. Meath were right to object. Were the GAA right to change the appointed ref? I am not so sure they were right to do so. I asked that very question on this thread yesterday! I agree with you that winning three Provincial titles in a row is a great achievement and proof that Dublin are serious contenders now for the all Ireland There was only one big call - Brogan's goal was a 50-50 decision. So what? there's often dodgy goals in games. As for saying that there was only 7,000 Meath fans - Everybody knows Meath are very well supported, most especially against DUblin. And as for the 50-60,000, as you know too well, half of them are fair day fans along for the show/"event", with many (I have witnessed the phenomenon at first hand) not even being from Dublin, yet wearing the blue. In Mullingar I saw 8 lads dressed in DUbs colours, who had been in Westmeath jerseys for the DOnegal match the night before (I spoke to them), heading up for the Leinster Final. I wouldnt exactly be counting their support! Talking about partisanship lads, the best example I have seen of it was 1992, when 85% of the tickets went to people supporting Donegal. The Semi-final between Dublin & Mayo last year was 50-50
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 31, 2007 18:12:39 GMT
Nothing like a bit of a controvvvvasssseyyyyy when the number of matches the journos have to report on begins to dwindle!! On another note entirely - Rashers - ye get to play at home 19 times out of 20 during the championship, in front of an incredibly partisan support of between 50k and 65k. That'll balance out any quibbles Dublin may ever have over refs. Everything else is in Dublin's favour - they just have to know how to use that advantage, and there are times when the Dublin team don't know how to do that. Not a chance Stacks. Take for example the Offaly game, where the Faithful had about 10,000 supporters. That ref was so biased against Dublin it was beyond reason. Which is exactly the point, there is no reasoning with refs when Dublin are in any way favourites in a match, they just want to help the opposition, it's a culture born from a long time ago, 1 V 31, they live amongst all the propoganda, and its impossible for them not to be biased. I will agree with one thing though - Meath have generally got a hard time from refs, since they became very successful, due to their hard-man tactics. However, when it comes to Meath-Dublin games, I'd say it has balanced out pretty well over time, depending on which county is in the ascendancy
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 31, 2007 18:16:56 GMT
Well rashers...... you must be happy with drawing Derry. Any with Meath being paired with Tyrone the prospect of a Dublin v Meath final is now looming large on the horison. That would be the perfect riposte to those who say that the Leinster Championship is poor. Dubs-Meath would be great, but I cant see it happening this year. Next year maybe. Derry is the hardest draw, they have many players who have played in 2 All-Ireland Semis, just like Dublin. It's a 50-50 game, neither team has proven themselves able to live with the Big Two yet at the highest level, either in League or Championship, though Derry have beaten Tyrone, Armagh & Mayo in Championship since last year, so really they deserve to be favourites
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martym
Senior Member
Posts: 254
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Post by martym on Jul 31, 2007 19:01:05 GMT
Will the dubs make any changes ?. I think Pillar might want to start Bonner for his physical pressence . The Derry defence is strong but not the quickest . In 2004 they folded very easily even though they caught a lot of ball at midfield
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