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Post by maineview on Sept 5, 2009 13:38:03 GMT
I dont think kieran will start for the ai final, it would be lik paul galvin last year, coming into the final without match practice is not the ideal situation, unless god forbid we are struck down with injuries kiearn should be on the bench, and all going well he will make a huge impact, either in ff line or midfield battle if needed, what we need is all the our players match fit and firing on all cylinders, i think the only decision for joc and co is do he start tommy or leave him on the bench? While I agree with a lot of what you say, I think Donaghy's presence alone makes the Cork guys nervous.They cannot handle him, he causes proper havoc every time he is in around their 14 yard line. I am convinced that the cracks that Donegal showed in the Cork full back line can be opened into roadways with the right kind of ball to the right man.Moving the ball quickly into the FF line wont give Cork the time to funnel players back. It is indeed a headache for Jack and co,but, if I was in his position and Star was fit he would be one of the first names on my team sheet. If he does start on the bench, I hope they don't delay too long if we are in trouble. It is important to have guys of his quality on the field. I agree 100% with you in the sense that kieran would be an automatic first choice on my team sheet in every match, and yes he would/will do untold damage to the cork full back line, but its just he has only played 40 mins of championship football this season and that is the wrong preparation for the AI final, but like you said if things are goind ascue then we need to spring kieran asap.
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chrism
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Post by chrism on Sept 5, 2009 14:00:46 GMT
Do not think we should play both Donaghy and Tommy anyway. Counihan will just copy what Tyrone did last year . There is no doubt Counihan is planning all the options Jack might throw at him. Heard that they had played some matches with 14 men in training games in the event of somebody being sent off. He has Cadogan on the bench as well and I know some Cork people think he would ideal for either Donaghy or Walsh. I think we should try and get back to the game against Dublin and play something like it. Think the weather didn't suit that last week. PLus Declan O ' Sullivan will hardly be as bad again.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 5, 2009 16:21:40 GMT
For me the only decision is whether Tadhg starts instead of Donnacha.
Darren should have started the 2008 final and should start this one. He has been one of Kerrys best players all year and should get an All Star should he play well in the final and Kerry win.
I was thinking today about the final and I feel we are in a similar situation to 1997.
Mayos midfield had dominated in all games prior to that to such an extent that even the Mayo forwards were able to get enough scores to reach the final.
A huge performance from two young Kerry midfielders, Darragh O Se and William Kirby provided the platform for Maurice to pull the trigger.
Twelve years later and we are looking to Darragh again.
I have a feeling that Micheal Quirke could play a significant role in this final. Nicholas Murphy wont fancy locking horns with him again.
Why would Donaghy be any more effective in the 2009 final than Galvin was in the 2008 final? Okay, Donaghy has been training recently but is that sufficient?
Speaking of Paul Galvin...... if I were Counihan I would ask Noel O Leary to wind him up and try to get both sent off. That would suit Cork.
Paul....... keep up the Amish approach for one more game. You can sort Noel O Leary out in the league match after Christmas.
Pearse O Neill wont be remembered as a wonderfuly skillful footballer but I would have him on my team. He is unstoppable when in possession..... basically a more agressive Eoin Brosnan. Against Tyrone he was all over the place and central to most of Corks good play.
Nullify the influence of Pearse O Neill and Kerry will be half way there.
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mozzy
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Post by mozzy on Sept 5, 2009 17:56:12 GMT
Cesit amhain - why have we not sorted out a free taker yet? How come we see Cooper take a wonderful 45 and put it over the bar and then the next game he is dropping a hopeful ball short? Why is Darren - Paul O Connor so poor at the 45's?
This game is going to be extremely tight - we need a free taker and we need the lads to be more accurate? Does anyone else see this as a serious problem?
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mozzy
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Post by mozzy on Sept 5, 2009 17:56:55 GMT
ok that was more than one question... but same subject matter...
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Post by northkerrygeezer on Sept 5, 2009 19:15:13 GMT
Was just at Duagh v St Marys. Wow Anthony Maher was unbelieveable! Three points from play, bossed the game completely! I know Marys were pretty poor, but Maher made them look poor. Apparently Ger O'Keeffe was in attendance so who knows if we're being beaten or whatever Maher might be an option ... certainly looked good enough to come on at some stage. Bryan Sheehan was decent, but not overly impressive. Kieran Quirke was solid, but in fairness didn't have much to do
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 5, 2009 19:24:04 GMT
Did Maurice come on?
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Post by veteran on Sept 5, 2009 19:43:49 GMT
Mozzy,
I share your concern regarding free taking. I have been plugging away at this all the year. Luckily it has not become a significant issue so far but, considering the central role frees usually play in a match, one wonders if at some stage our luck will run out in a tight match ,which on paper the final promises to be. Indeed it is one of my biggest worries.
I have previously alluded to the unfair burden it puts on Colm in view of the fact that we expect so much from him in general play. This burden of course is now heightened if he is carrying a groin injury. It is difficult to solve this puzzle at this stage because the form of the non free takers makes it difficult to omit them. It takes far less effort to convert a free than to create a score from play so it is a shame and potentially fatal to miss them. However, I am unable to solve the riddle . Before the drawn game in Munster, I expressed the wish on this forum that I did want to write here after the match-"it was the frees,stupid". It nearly came to that. I am expressing a similar wish in respect of the final.
I notice Mickmack is highlighting the potential danger of Pierce O'Neill. The two of us have expressed different opinions about Pierce in the past. I do not rate him as highly as others do. Indeed, he is well down my list of worries for the final, certainly behind freetaking, because I have now doubt in my mind that Mick McCarthy is a far superior footballer. I am assuming of course, that Kerry management will not allow the two of them to be isolated for some of the Cork kick outs as happened with the Cork man and his marker in the Munster games.
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chrism
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Post by chrism on Sept 5, 2009 20:13:35 GMT
Pearse O Neill plays very well for Cork against Kerry . He might be quiet against other teams.Would be worries too about the frees. Did not think Coopers injury was that bad. He did look off the last day and heard he played with the aid of an injection. Hope he did not do any more damage. Looked at the Cork- Kerry match (replay) last night. What really struck me was the roasting Goulding gave Tom O Sullivan. Must say am I also worried about the new guy Colm O Neill on Tommy Griffin. Think he is a real find. Has no problem winning his own ball and works very well with Goulding. Think Tadgh is improving and Scanlon will surely hold his own.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 5, 2009 21:10:55 GMT
Veteran
We all agree with you that having a reliable feee taker is essential. To use a golfing axiom.... You drive for show and you putt for dough.
But..... what can they do?
Are you suggesting starting Paul O Connor or Bryan Sheehan?
Or david Moran?
Glad that Anthony Maher played well tonight......... he was growing with each game in the league and is definately a man for the future and he might see game time in this years final.
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kb
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Post by kb on Sept 5, 2009 21:55:14 GMT
I was at training last Thursday week (before the Meath game) and what struck me is only Bryan Sheehan was practicing frees??? It was a very low key session, but I was sure Darren and Paul O'Connor would be practicing like mad. Granted they may do this in their own time, but I thought it very strange that after the session during the warm down, Bryan Sheehan practiced 10 or 12 frees from different angles and no one else did, from the ground or hands. I am hoping Kerry have something in reserve here. They have had a lot of time to work on this, to come up with some sort of tactic for taking a quick 45 or something. It is fairly poor when you get to an All Ireland semi final and get one 45 and completely botch it as we did against Meath, I actually cringed when I saw Cooper waiting around for someone to make a run. I hope this will not be the unraveling of us. You can expect to get 2 or 3 45s in a game, and would expect to get a good return from them. I had heard that Paul O'Connor is a good free taker but in the Dublin game the 2 45's he took were seriously lacking in distance (granted he could argue that the second one was hit short intentionally). He looks accurate from within the 45 but we still need someone to learn how to work the 45's, be it kicking them into the square, kicking them short occasionally. Have we converted one 45 without Bryan Sheehan? I can't recall us converting any without him, which is quite worrying.. That said I think his free taking alone does not justify him starting. After all he was very poor in last year's final.
Saw Maher playing in the league against Galway and was seriously impressed by him. Definitely a man for the future. Hopefully if he gets a run in the final it will be because we are winning comfortable [wishful thinking me thinks] :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2009 9:21:18 GMT
Freetaking is as much a mental thing as anything else. Several players are well able to take a free but can they do it on the biggest stage. In the warm up V Meath Darrgh kicked a 45 just wide but he seemed to have the distance. I assumed in the game that he would take one.
What worries me is the lack of planning in respect of this. I have never supported starting a player just for frees. Against the best teams I do not think you can get away with it. Bryan Sheehan has missed plenty frees in his time also so it doesn't always work out as planned. However I would expect management to put in place plenty of alternatives.
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chrism
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Post by chrism on Sept 6, 2009 10:32:14 GMT
Donnacha missed a good few too for Cork V Tyrone but in general has had a good year with them. Goulding takes them from the other side and he was brillant for CIT in the final . Think Colm O Neill takes free as well. He took the 45 in the drawn match. Cork have big advantage there over us.
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kerryscoob
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Where's the Hudson river
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Post by kerryscoob on Sept 6, 2009 10:43:26 GMT
Cesit amhain - why have we not sorted out a free taker yet? How come we see Cooper take a wonderful 45 and put it over the bar and then the next game he is dropping a hopeful ball short? Why is Darren - Paul O Connor so poor at the 45's? This game is going to be extremely tight - we need a free taker and we need the lads to be more accurate? Does anyone else see this as a serious problem? The Gooch was definitely injured going into last weeks game, nobody to date has taken advantage of us having no reliable free taker, but again repeating JOC he doesn't see a specialist freetaker been required until the last 10/15mins. Imagine the scenario B. Sheehan coming on and landing the winning point. Redemption.!!
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Sept 6, 2009 16:54:00 GMT
Begining this evening , all training sessions for this week will be behind-closed-doors I understand.
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Post by clarinman on Sept 6, 2009 17:27:26 GMT
Cesit amhain - why have we not sorted out a free taker yet? How come we see Cooper take a wonderful 45 and put it over the bar and then the next game he is dropping a hopeful ball short? Why is Darren - Paul O Connor so poor at the 45's? This game is going to be extremely tight - we need a free taker and we need the lads to be more accurate? Does anyone else see this as a serious problem? Mozzy, The point that Cooper got from the 45 against Dublin was a free not a 45 - he kicked it from the hand. I agree that this is a big worry. After seeing Cork's negative tactics against Tyrone in the 2nd half they will not hesitate to foul us 40 to 50 yards from goal. I still do not think that we can justify carrying Sheahan.
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chrism
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Post by chrism on Sept 6, 2009 19:33:01 GMT
Cork have a totally different approach to training. They trained in Dunmanway today and Dunmanway Gaa had notices up saying all were welcome . Heard one of the Cork selectors on the radio today and he was saying people should go down to Pairc ui Chaoimh and often you would see the B team beating the A team. Also said such was the intensity of the training they had quite a few injuries in the past few days. However , in order to win match they have to go for intense physical A V B matches. Was asked what was difference between Cork 2008 and 2009. He said that they 6 Scoring forwards plus a midfield and half backs that can score. Also said that all players undertook intensive winter training and he feels the results are only showing now. He said that they are using the Kerry v Dublin match as the yardstick and dismissed the Kerry v Meath match as a non-event. A very sloppy match with bad conditions.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2009 19:35:33 GMT
Are refs in All Ireland finals being told to blow the whistle as little as possible?
In last years final Tyrone fouled repeatedly and the ref gave few frees.
The ref in todays hurling final gave a amazing performance. No body check was whistled.
What will Marty Duffy do if he is instructed to let the game flow and forget his whistle or the rules?
Is there a lesson there for Kerry?
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Post by Tadhgeen on Sept 6, 2009 20:51:03 GMT
The standard of refereeing is a big worry these days and in a close game can prove the deciding factor.
I can't even rember who reffed last year's final ( was it Crowe ) but I do remember the early persistant fouling by McMahon and co. which because it went unpunished I believe was a major contributory factor to our loss that day.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 6, 2009 20:58:40 GMT
so should Jack be telling to backs to foul away repeatedly as the refs main concern is a free-flowing spectacle for the TV audience worldwide and they wont be penalised?
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Post by Tadhgeen on Sept 6, 2009 21:19:45 GMT
No but the odd robust challenge won't go astray!
I don't think we will employ a strategy around fouling but maybe I am being naive?
Our strategy will hopefully be more positive with emphasis on quick ball into everchanging oases of space.
Tipp's puck out strategy today was well executed.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Sept 6, 2009 21:26:20 GMT
It seems to me that you will get away with bodychecks and 3rd man tackles but a hand on a shirt is pulled right away. Cork got away with murder in the SF as well. I agree with you about the ref today. I couldn't help thinking about the story of how Cody swallows the whistle at training and how the ref doing the same today was suiting KK as a result.
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Post by jerryewe on Sept 6, 2009 23:18:36 GMT
I'd say the ref will be stricter in the football final. This would be because of the media agenda saying that football is full of fouls whereas hurling needs to be left flow. Also Kerry and Cork have a history of sending offs in their clashes in recent years so the ref will be told to cut out any nonsense straight away. I would safely say that a player from each side will be booked within 5 mins for a small bout of handbags
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Post by rebelontheditch on Sept 6, 2009 23:52:58 GMT
Absolutely nothing to do with the game this but I thought I would share this wit ye anyway. During the Rose of Tralee one of the Roses mentioned that her escort had given her an unusual gift. It turns out that she had received a bottle of poitin and had told half the country that her escort was dealing illegal liquor. Anywho the escort has a famous brother, none other than Paul Galvins favourite (sparring partner) Noel O' Leary ya his younger brother i didnt see it but i heard all about it!!! they must be a fairly crazy family!!
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Post by chieftain on Sept 7, 2009 5:52:28 GMT
Bryan Sheehan is not a reliable free taker in fact he is an unreliable free taker in AI finals. plus he is barely on the 25 so he is hardly full of confidence. He does not do big game kicks like Maurice did. Cork will shut up shop in the second half and there will be opportunities. Cooper should be installed and let him do it from everywhere on the filed he can work a short one from left side or from distamce.
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Post by chieftain on Sept 7, 2009 5:53:42 GMT
Does anybody know if Kieran Donaghy is training at full tilt? Jumping, tackling, kicking?
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Sept 7, 2009 7:34:48 GMT
Chieftain - the answer to you question is 'Yes'
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Post by kerry50 on Sept 7, 2009 8:33:37 GMT
Bryan Sheehan is not a reliable free taker in fact he is an unreliable free taker in AI finals. plus he is barely on the 25 so he is hardly full of confidence. He does not do big game kicks like Maurice did. Cork will shut up shop in the second half and there will be opportunities. Cooper should be installed and let him do it from everywhere on the filed he can work a short one from left side or from distamce. Ya granted he has missed frees from time to time but don't say "he does not do big game kicks" County final South kerry V Crokes 2006 last kick of the game 60 yards out ring a bel??
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mozzy
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Post by mozzy on Sept 7, 2009 9:10:30 GMT
This is an All Ireland that for so many reasons we cannot - should not lose: (and not in any particular order) ....
1) Darragh O Shea - the sacrifice and years of dedication - my words would never do the man justice - the legend - the hero - the history he has given unto us ...
2) Jack O Connor - the wise man is back and already transformed himself and the team - given himself, us and more importantly the players belief again in everything that is Kerry Football and the resultant possibilities ...
3) Mike McCarthy - I have been asking for us to knock on his doors for the past three years - finally I get something I asked for.... we wouldn't be in this final but for the man.....
4) Colm Cooper - what class - hardship he overcame - and media, pundits he has on his back this year and prior and will put to bed - this is the final to be Tiger Wood or Ronaldo or indeed - Ger Power - Seanie Walsh - Mick Sheey - Maurice - Seamus never letting you down on the big day
5) Tadgh Kennelly - his Father passed away too young to see his son collect what we will all, (hopefully), call Tadgh's celtic cross - hardwork - class - professionalism and monetary sacrifice in a world gone mad - a world that is obsessed with money and property and finally sees a man sacrifice money for love of where he comes from - tradition - culture and above all an All Ireland medal - a man that would put Roy Keane and Stephen Ireland to shame (but that is not our game or our culture) - we wear our jersey as fans and above all as players for history that is greater than ourselves.
6) Paul Galvin - who has worked his arse off this year - becoming bigger than himself and those pundits around us - those who would keep his passion in it's box and convince us that when he was wronged - he himself was wrong - the charges proved otherwise - the DNA showing us, (as he held his hand aloft on several occasions this year to the ref), I am not always the culprit as much as I am the victim
7) Diarmuid Murphy - a man wrongly accused of failing his post of allowing misguided missiles take out the house behind his back - the man vs Sligo Vs Dublin Vs Meath - who has shown us that he may be compared with the only real Irish soccer player we have these days - Shay Given...
8) Darren Sullivan - fast -furious - speed - dedication and finally the head is up -- looking elsewhere and aware of the cul de sacs .... the straight road has many corners to Plan A or Plan B
9) Scanlon - class personified in quiteness.... greatness in the man behind the scenes .... keeping the house clean - the wires plugged in for the U2 gig and alllowing all in front of him to storm Normandy
10) Declan O - from the heart of Jacko's Flying Column - intellingence gathering - a sniper on the frontlines - always taking the heart and head out of the occupier of foreign lands - ready and willing to pass - point - goal and take the hit for the team - the future of Kerry lands - new classic legends for future schooling
11) Tommy - the young walsh growing up before his time into his Father's not so soft footsteps - believing - giving and foraging and always conquering - a Dublin Viken of sorts on Kerry soil - deciding to stay and fight with us rather than against us and (we can only hope he listens well to his Aussie pat - TK)
12) Donnacha Walsh - the silent giver - gathering sod - fuel, setting a fire in CP HQ and now and then saying I am also a Colm or a Declan and watch me score a goal and always with a humility that this team needs now returning to his post of gathering - foraging and hard work -
13) Tomas O Shea - should any words be written but his name - his stance - his hard work and sense of "I will die before you pass" - accompanies every game he plays and dies for ...
14) I am Marc O Shea and I am class personified - I will make sure you do not pass and that every ball I win back and take a strike in the face for will be worth it and will be comfortably put back - perfectly into the striking forwards...
15) Tom O Sullivan - back in his favorite position and confident the work can be focused because of those around him - will run - stand - stick to his ground and ensure his counsel will be guarded - for those who say he is a silent partner will know the hardwork he carries out in such silence will yield the ultimate ... that Sam who wants to be home back in known and comfortable, welcome lands....
16) Killian Young - a captain of under 21 All Ireland medal - and this new apprentice has taken the team here to where he and they belong and up to now - he has run - passed - chased and stopped as the rookie should ....the eye/soul/wisdom of our future - another class act in the making (my favorite player... of our new era)
and the rearguard -
Kieran D - the new breath of fresh air that screams everthing that is Kerry - Class - Skill - Hope and Love of the game - he misses playing so much that he will carry the water to those he watches and admires until he gets his chance again, (just to run on the hallowed ground) ... and ask for some water himself ....... one word..... commitment ....
I don't have enough words for Mahoney, Maher, Bohane, etc.
'nough said - perhaps too much Hyperbole ... but it comes easy when you are always proud and optimistic because you were born in Kerry....and will never forget where you come from.
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Post by patinkerry on Sept 7, 2009 11:50:07 GMT
Nice one Mozzy
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