bob74
On Probation
Posts: 2
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Post by bob74 on Sept 26, 2009 9:13:46 GMT
The Sam was in Listowel last night - Mike Mac, Tadgh, Seamus Scanlon, Corridan, Dec O'Sullivan, Tom O'Sullivan and Paul Galvin were there. Great turnout for the homecoming. Listowel Emmets made a presentation to Tadgh. He's got 15 lessons with a local dancing school so expect a more professional jig from him at next years final!
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Post by brogin41 on Sept 26, 2009 10:03:39 GMT
Riocht. Sam is going to be in the Seanscoil on the Bothar at 4 o'clock today.
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Post by homerj on Sept 26, 2009 10:20:59 GMT
its still sweet aint it! im watching the game now again.
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Post by Corner Back on Sept 26, 2009 12:46:58 GMT
This weekend will consist of Friday - several pints where the match will be reanalysed in detail by me and a few other "experts". Saturday - rewatch the match, Sunday game and radio kerry commentary . Anyone know if the radio kerry commentary of the match is available Online?? Would love to hear the joy and emotion of Gary and weeshie
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2009 12:51:15 GMT
Brilliant ...
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Post by Dermot on Sept 26, 2009 13:25:28 GMT
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Post by popeye on Sept 26, 2009 13:33:25 GMT
That is unreal ha ha im cork friends at work were not a bit impressed ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D perfect.
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JOAN
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,492
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Post by JOAN on Sept 26, 2009 20:15:41 GMT
ah now thats 2 funny!!!!
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mozzy
Senior Member
Nunc Coepi
Posts: 746
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Post by mozzy on Sept 27, 2009 0:26:58 GMT
hilarious....thanks for posting...
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mozzy
Senior Member
Nunc Coepi
Posts: 746
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Post by mozzy on Sept 27, 2009 1:26:03 GMT
This is a post I put on the Kerry forum a few weeks before our victory..... on Sept 7th. "This is an All Ireland that for so many reasons we cannot - should not lose: (and not in any particular order) ....
1) Darragh O Shea - the sacrifice and years of dedication - my words would never do the man justice - the legend - the hero - the history he has given unto us ...
2) Jack O Connor - the wise man is back and already transformed himself and the team - given himself, us and more importantly the players belief again in everything that is Kerry Football and the resultant possibilities ...
3) Mike McCarthy - I have been asking for us to knock on his doors for the past three years - finally I get something I asked for.... we wouldn't be in this final but for the man.....
4) Colm Cooper - what class - hardship he overcame - and media, pundits he has on his back this year and prior and will put to bed - this is the final to be Tiger Wood or Ronaldo or indeed - Ger Power - Seanie Walsh - Mick Sheey - Maurice - Seamus never letting you down on the big day
5) Tadgh Kennelly - his Father passed away too young to see his son collect what we will all, (hopefully), call Tadgh's celtic cross - hardwork - class - professionalism and monetary sacrifice in a world gone mad - a world that is obsessed with money and property and finally sees a man sacrifice money for love of where he comes from - tradition - culture and above all an All Ireland medal - a man that would put Roy Keane and Stephen Ireland to shame (but that is not our game or our culture) - we wear our jersey as fans and above all as players for history that is greater than ourselves.
6) Paul Galvin - who has worked his arse off this year - becoming bigger than himself and those pundits around us - those who would keep his passion in it's box and convince us that when he was wronged - he himself was wrong - the charges proved otherwise - the DNA showing us, (as he held his hand aloft on several occasions this year to the ref), I am not always the culprit as much as I am the victim
7) Diarmuid Murphy - a man wrongly accused of failing his post of allowing misguided missiles take out the house behind his back - the man vs Sligo Vs Dublin Vs Meath - who has shown us that he may be compared with the only real Irish soccer player we have these days - Shay Given...
8) Tommy Griffin - a man under appreciated and should have been our full back last year - always gives his best and this year will be his chance to prove the doubtful wrong and himself to be one of the best as he has been all year 9) Darren Sullivan - fast -furious - speed - dedication and finally the head is up -- looking elsewhere and aware of the cul de sacs .... the straight road has many corners to Plan A or Plan B
10) Scanlon - class personified in quiteness.... greatness in the man behind the scenes .... keeping the house clean - the wires plugged in for the U2 gig and alllowing all in front of him to storm Normandy
11) Declan O - from the heart of Jacko's Flying Column - intellingence gathering - a sniper on the frontlines - always taking the heart and head out of the occupier of foreign lands - ready and willing to pass - point - goal and take the hit for the team - the future of Kerry lands - new classic legends for future schooling
12) Tommy - the young walsh growing up before his time into his Father's not so soft footsteps - believing - giving and foraging and always conquering - a Dublin Viken of sorts on Kerry soil - deciding to stay and fight with us rather than against us and (we can only hope he listens well to his Aussie pat - TK)
13) Donnacha Walsh - the silent giver - gathering sod - fuel, setting a fire in CP HQ and now and then saying I am also a Colm or a Declan and watch me score a goal and always with a humility that this team needs now returning to his post of gathering - foraging and hard work -
14) Tomas O Shea - should any words be written but his name - his stance - his hard work and sense of "I will die before you pass" - accompanies every game he plays and dies for ...
15) I am Marc O Shea and I am class personified - I will make sure you do not pass and that every ball I win back and take a strike in the face for will be worth it and will be comfortably put back - perfectly into the striking forwards...
16) Tom O Sullivan - back in his favorite position and confident the work can be focused because of those around him - will run - stand - stick to his ground and ensure his counsel will be guarded - for those who say he is a silent partner will know the hardwork he carries out in such silence will yield the ultimate ... that Sam who wants to be home back in known and comfortable, welcome lands....
17) Killian Young - a captain of under 21 All Ireland medal - and this new apprentice has taken the team here to where he and they belong and up to now - he has run - passed - chased and stopped as the rookie should ....the eye/soul/wisdom of our future - another class act in the making (my favorite player... of our new era)
and the rearguard -
Kieran D - the new breath of fresh air that screams everthing that is Kerry - Class - Skill - Hope and Love of the game - he misses playing so much that he will carry the water to those he watches and admires until he gets his chance again, (just to run on the hallowed ground) ... and ask for some water himself ....... one word..... commitment ....
I don't have enough words for Mahoney, Maher, Bohane, etc.
'nough said - perhaps too much Hyperbole ... but it comes easy when you are always proud and optimistic because you were born in Kerry....and will never forget where you come from." Glad I got it right....
ASABU ... can you post your conversation with Weeshie or maybe how about a post match commentary?
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Post by nicoshea on Sept 27, 2009 15:12:11 GMT
One week on, sitting at my desk doing up a data analysis request, and all I can see is Marc swooping across the late ball into goal and driving out towards the Cusack with it. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yessssssssssssssss. A warm winter awaits us Kerry folk. I nearly fell when I saw that... I jumped up so much and with the cheering etc nearly fell over.... WHOIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Post by nicoshea on Sept 27, 2009 15:18:15 GMT
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Post by Die Hard Kerry Fan on Sept 27, 2009 16:37:34 GMT
Oooh what a sap. No bit of fun outta that fecker!
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Post by veteran on Sept 27, 2009 21:42:12 GMT
I have never been interested in "The Team of the Decade" argument. It is like picking the best player, best goal, best match etc- too subjective and therefore loaded with emotion and bias rather than objectivity and good judgement.
The most bizarre aspect of this concept and its most glaring lacuna was that the discussion originated in 2008 and seemingly was going to be decided at the end of that championship. Therefore, for the first time in the history of mankind we were going to have a nine year decade, parachuting from 2008 onwards to 2010. In other words, 2009 was going to have no bearing on this puerile discussion. Talk about rushing to judgement.
My contribution to this argument has been inspired by an article which appeared in the the Irish Examiner dated 29.08.2009 by Ray Silke. Note the date- the 2009 championship had not yet been completed. During the course of this article Mr. Silke makes a claim that Tyrone are the team of the decade. Now, that conclusion is not very important-some people would concur- rather it is how he arrives at his conclusion that intrigues me.
The first point of note is that only one of the contenders-Kerry- are still in contention for the remaining All-Ireland of the decade at the time the article was written. Clearly, Mr Silke has decided that this fact has no bearing on the argument. If his "team of the decade" were still in contention, I wonder would he be so dismissive? Either way, to ignore one year of the decade is preposterous.
The next plank in his argument is one of the most fantastic I have heard advanced in any debate on any topic. It goes something like this. The Tyrone team deserve extra brownie points because of their impoverished football history in the previous decades. Conversely, Kerry deserve less acclamation because it is written in the stars, their DNA etc that they are going to win All-Irelands regularly(soft ones presumably) Yes, that is what the man said. Have you ever heard anything more grotesque?
Mr. Silke does make a valid point that Tyrone beat Kerry in each of their championship meetings. I feel, people who are interested in this debate have to take cognizance of that fact. Equally, people interested in the debate have to give weight to the fact that Tyrone, unlike Kerry, failed to win successive All-Irelands. Did Mr. Silke allude to this fact? I fear not. Why allow facts to up scuttle a feeble proposition.
Not content with the aforementioned hasty judgement, Mr. Silke proceeded to dig a deeper hole for himself, once more pretending/hoping that the decade had already run its course. In this instance he gives his reasoned(not quite) opinion on the manager of the decade. He asserts that the title of manager of the decade should go to Micky Harte "without recourse to a dispute". The reasoning/non-reasoning here is that Micky Harte master minded three All-Ireland wins whereas Kerry's victories were shared between three different managers- 2000, 2004,2006 and 2007. Now, as we all know 2004 and 2006 were picked up by Jack O'Connor. Since Mr. Silke's article, Jack has managed to plunder another one,2009. I am a simple minded man but as far I can tell, 2009 belongs to the current decade. Therefore, Jack=Micky=3=decade. Q.E.D. Possible "recourse to a dispute" here ,sir. If only Mr. Silke could have contained his eagerness to abandon logic and to grasp at all things with a red hue, he would not have come across as a jackass.
I am not necessarily coming down on the side of Kerry or Tyrone, Jack or Micky. We are blessed to have witnessed both teams and both both managers in action but if somebody wants to advance the claims of one over the other, then the least I expect is objectivity and logic. On these grounds, Mr. Silke's light weight contribution is dismissed out of hand. Tyrone and Micky are cursed with some of their apologists.They deserve better.
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 28, 2009 17:56:53 GMT
You're spot on Veteran. What annoyed me most of all last year was that it was as if Team of the Decade was an official title bestowed on Tyrone, it certainly would have sounded that way to anyone watching RTE news on the evening of the final. The words I used before on this forum about the media were 'lazy and suggestible'; one columnist started this Team of the Decade nonsense a year early and it snowballed.
Tyrone have done brilliantly this decade, surely those in the media can acknowledge that without trying to make all these extra claims for them.
An All-Ireland is an All-Ireland, I understand that it's a better story for the papers when Tyrone win, but I don't see how an All-Ireland they win is any more worthy than a Kerry victory. In 1997, Kerry won an All-Ireland without one of the squad having previously started an All-Ireland final - I don't recall too many pundits marvelling at that achievement.
My feelings on Ray Silke is that he owes his public profile to being the 1st man to bring Sam to Connacht in 32 years - I don't care for him as a pundit at all. That "without recourse to a dispute" phrase is fairly typical of his brand of guff.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 28, 2009 18:24:41 GMT
Why don't Tyrone play Kerry in Croke Park to open the league next February. Winner takes the title of team of the Decade.
It isn't worth much so no point having the game in September, but no harm lobbing it in for the craic in February.
All gate receipts go to the charity of choice of the two panels.
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Post by Dermot on Sept 29, 2009 12:25:46 GMT
I have never been interested in "The Team of the Decade" argument. It is like picking the best player, best goal, best match etc- too subjective and therefore loaded with emotion and bias rather than objectivity and good judgement. The most bizarre aspect of this concept and its most glaring lacuna was that the discussion originated in 2008 and seemingly was going to be decided at the end of that championship. Therefore, for the first time in the history of mankind we were going to have a nine year decade, parachuting from 2008 onwards to 2010. In other words, 2009 was going to have no bearing on this puerile discussion. Talk about rushing to judgement. My contribution to this argument has been inspired by an article which appeared in the the Irish Examiner dated 29.08.2009 by Ray Silke. Note the date- the 2009 championship had not yet been completed. During the course of this article Mr. Silke makes a claim that Tyrone are the team of the decade. Now, that conclusion is not very important-some people would concur- rather it is how he arrives at his conclusion that intrigues me. The first point of note is that only one of the contenders-Kerry- are still in contention for the remaining All-Ireland of the decade at the time the article was written. Clearly, Mr Silke has decided that this fact has no bearing on the argument. If his "team of the decade" were still in contention, I wonder would he be so dismissive? Either way, to ignore one year of the decade is preposterous. The next plank in his argument is one of the most fantastic I have heard advanced in any debate on any topic. It goes something like this. The Tyrone team deserve extra brownie points because of their impoverished football history in the previous decades. Conversely, Kerry deserve less acclamation because it is written in the stars, their DNA etc that they are going to win All-Irelands regularly(soft ones presumably) Yes, that is what the man said. Have you ever heard anything more grotesque? Mr. Silke does make a valid point that Tyrone beat Kerry in each of their championship meetings. I feel, people who are interested in this debate have to take cognizance of that fact. Equally, people interested in the debate have to give weight to the fact that Tyrone, unlike Kerry, failed to win successive All-Irelands. Did Mr. Silke allude to this fact? I fear not. Why allow facts to up scuttle a feeble proposition. Not content with the aforementioned hasty judgement, Mr. Silke proceeded to dig a deeper hole for himself, once more pretending/hoping that the decade had already run its course. In this instance he gives his reasoned(not quite) opinion on the manager of the decade. He asserts that the title of manager of the decade should go to Micky Harte "without recourse to a dispute". The reasoning/non-reasoning here is that Micky Harte master minded three All-Ireland wins whereas Kerry's victories were shared between three different managers- 2000, 2004,2006 and 2007. Now, as we all know 2004 and 2006 were picked up by Jack O'Connor. Since Mr. Silke's article, Jack has managed to plunder another one,2009. I am a simple minded man but as far I can tell, 2009 belongs to the current decade. Therefore, Jack=Micky=3=decade. Q.E.D. Possible "recourse to a dispute" here ,sir. If only Mr. Silke could have contained his eagerness to abandon logic and to grasp at all things with a red hue, he would not have come across as a jackass. I am not necessarily coming down on the side of Kerry or Tyrone, Jack or Micky. We are blessed to have witnessed both teams and both both managers in action but if somebody wants to advance the claims of one over the other, then the least I expect is objectivity and logic. On these grounds, Mr. Silke's light weight contribution is dismissed out of hand. Tyrone and Micky are cursed with some of their apologists.They deserve better. A very good and well balanced post there Veteran. I suppose we all shouldn't take too much notice of what these so called experts say ... They have to have some sort of angle to warrent their "probable" lofty salaries I suppose.
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Post by chieftain on Sept 29, 2009 19:43:39 GMT
Thank God for Tyrone. Were it not for them gaelic footlball would be like the hurling championship Kilkenny and the also rans. At least Tyrone can beat Kerry in big games. Ok they dont show up every year but when they do they are hard to beat. Tyrone have done so much for football and so much for Kerry. There is no way we would have reached the standard we are at without them. Kerry 5, Tyrone 3, Galway 1, Armagh 1. It could have being Kerry 8, Galway 1, Armagh 1. So what if we only have 36 all-Irelands instead of 39. Gaelic football is better for Tyrone. Great manager and very honest and skillful players. I will never forget Peter Canavans point from the corner under the cusack in 2005, it was something of rare beauty and courage i couldn't help thinking that the man was special. have Kerry ever had a player like this? He closed out the game with that kick. Canavan could have played on any kerry team of any decade. We as Kerry people need to appreciate Tyrone much more. Our achievements are more valuable because of them. Lets hope Mickey Harte stays around and they can continue to contest big games with Kerry if not every year every second or third year.
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Post by Tadhgeen on Sept 29, 2009 21:41:06 GMT
This All Ireland victory is definitely sweet moreover because of the way we were doubted by others on more than one occasion.
I thought it was one of our best performances in an AI not least because it was truely a team effort and a professional and controlled one at that.
No room for sentiment or fancy stuff.
I must admit though that during the last 10 mins or so I was yelling for us to attack and try to move ball forward quickly to score when we had possssion. Instead we played keep ball and more often than not got turned over but seemed happy to defend soccer style.
It was a strange last 10 mins and something that in all my years watching Kerry on AI day (since 78) at Croke Park have never come close to witnessing.
The times they are a changing..........and we have yet another AI.
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Post by Dermot on Sept 30, 2009 12:45:07 GMT
Thank God for Tyrone. Were it not for them gaelic footlball would be like the hurling championship Kilkenny and the also rans. At least Tyrone can beat Kerry in big games. Ok they dont show up every year but when they do they are hard to beat. Tyrone have done so much for football and so much for Kerry. There is no way we would have reached the standard we are at without them. Kerry 5, Tyrone 3, Galway 1, Armagh 1. It could have being Kerry 8, Galway 1, Armagh 1. So what if we only have 36 all-Irelands instead of 39. Gaelic football is better for Tyrone. Great manager and very honest and skillful players. I will never forget Peter Canavans point from the corner under the cusack in 2005, it was something of rare beauty and courage i couldn't help thinking that the man was special. have Kerry ever had a player like this? He closed out the game with that kick. Canavan could have played on any kerry team of any decade. We as Kerry people need to appreciate Tyrone much more. Our achievements are more valuable because of them. Lets hope Mickey Harte stays around and they can continue to contest big games with Kerry if not every year every second or third year. Totally agree Chieftain, I think both teams drive the other on and hope it will continue to do so for a long time ... you guys are nearly always there or thereabouts .. we're hoping to stay there .. its still all a bit new to us. I think Kerry's victory this year was so special to Kerry people partly because of that competitiveness derived by the relationship of these 2 teams (as well as obviously beating your neighbours). And as far as wee peter goes, I still feckin miss him playing like crazy ... We have some brilliant players now and had some before but I dont think I'll ever see anyone like him again... Hope so but I aint holding out much hope ... he was a one off and most Tyrone folk would say the same. But then Im sure Kerry folk would all have their different favourites too.. Here's to next year and the new quest !
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Post by glengael on Sept 30, 2009 13:22:24 GMT
Finally got round to watching the second half of the match last night. It was the strangest 2nd half of an All Ireland that I have ever seen, but the result was what we wanted and that was all that mattered.
I genuinely feel sorry for those who had to listen to Canning and Carney. The TV commentary was worse than bad right down to their inability to identify substitutions as they were being made. There was an elderly gentleman beside me in the Cusack and he was able to say, who was coming on & going off without much difficulty even from that distance. ( Come back Marty Morrissey all is forgiven.)
Tomas O'SE's point will live long on the memory, the build up to it and its sublime execution. I could watch it all day. In a way it was fitting that it was the final score of the Championship.
Ciarrai Abu.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 30, 2009 16:29:56 GMT
Having watched the game a few times in the last week, one thing in particular has struck me.
During the league, especially in games against Tyrone, Westmeath, Mayo and even Dublin for most of it, some people here observed the fact that Kerry were playing with 4 forwards (2 inside, 2 further out), 2 of the half forwards behind the midfield and one of the midfielders dropping back in front of the full back line when possesion was lost up front.
Some time around the 50th minute of the game Shields drove forward from the back - he reached the Kerry 50 m line and then I paused the game. Gooch was diving to block his shot and there was a further 9 Kerry players in the picture, behind the Gooch. Shields tried to put the ball into Goulding (I think) it missed its target and it ended up going out for wide
Kerry set out there stall early in the year in formulating a plan to defend a lead in the last 20 minutes of a game - forming a line across the middle of the field in order to prevent Tyrone (and it ended up being Cork) coming at us in droves and being able to kick scores under little or no pressure from inside the 50.
All that planning came to the fore in the last 20 minutes of the game when the game was in the melting plot.
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Post by fenit67 on Oct 3, 2009 0:21:42 GMT
I have to share this with people. Now this may be the result of too much participation in distillation but there was an amount of elation to be dealt with in mitigation. In the middle of last week I dreamed that in the 2010 All-Ireland final we drew with Wexford! For god's sake what can a man do? We've just beaten them again and then we're expected to draw with shaggin' Wexford the following year! What it did to my heart during the dream only the gods know; what will happen during the dream when the replay happens? In all probability I will post the response from Cahors (nearest town with a hospital in FRANCE) A&E. Feckin' football. An Riocht go Deo!
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Post by Corner Back on Oct 4, 2009 12:43:32 GMT
I have never been interested in "The Team of the Decade" argument. It is like picking the best player, best goal, best match etc- too subjective and therefore loaded with emotion and bias rather than objectivity and good judgement. The most bizarre aspect of this concept and its most glaring lacuna was that the discussion originated in 2008 and seemingly was going to be decided at the end of that championship. Therefore, for the first time in the history of mankind we were going to have a nine year decade, parachuting from 2008 onwards to 2010. In other words, 2009 was going to have no bearing on this puerile discussion. Talk about rushing to judgement. My contribution to this argument has been inspired by an article which appeared in the the Irish Examiner dated 29.08.2009 by Ray Silke. Note the date- the 2009 championship had not yet been completed. During the course of this article Mr. Silke makes a claim that Tyrone are the team of the decade. Now, that conclusion is not very important-some people would concur- rather it is how he arrives at his conclusion that intrigues me. The first point of note is that only one of the contenders-Kerry- are still in contention for the remaining All-Ireland of the decade at the time the article was written. Clearly, Mr Silke has decided that this fact has no bearing on the argument. If his "team of the decade" were still in contention, I wonder would he be so dismissive? Either way, to ignore one year of the decade is preposterous. The next plank in his argument is one of the most fantastic I have heard advanced in any debate on any topic. It goes something like this. The Tyrone team deserve extra brownie points because of their impoverished football history in the previous decades. Conversely, Kerry deserve less acclamation because it is written in the stars, their DNA etc that they are going to win All-Irelands regularly(soft ones presumably) Yes, that is what the man said. Have you ever heard anything more grotesque? Mr. Silke does make a valid point that Tyrone beat Kerry in each of their championship meetings. I feel, people who are interested in this debate have to take cognizance of that fact. Equally, people interested in the debate have to give weight to the fact that Tyrone, unlike Kerry, failed to win successive All-Irelands. Did Mr. Silke allude to this fact? I fear not. Why allow facts to up scuttle a feeble proposition. Not content with the aforementioned hasty judgement, Mr. Silke proceeded to dig a deeper hole for himself, once more pretending/hoping that the decade had already run its course. In this instance he gives his reasoned(not quite) opinion on the manager of the decade. He asserts that the title of manager of the decade should go to Micky Harte "without recourse to a dispute". The reasoning/non-reasoning here is that Micky Harte master minded three All-Ireland wins whereas Kerry's victories were shared between three different managers- 2000, 2004,2006 and 2007. Now, as we all know 2004 and 2006 were picked up by Jack O'Connor. Since Mr. Silke's article, Jack has managed to plunder another one,2009. I am a simple minded man but as far I can tell, 2009 belongs to the current decade. Therefore, Jack=Micky=3=decade. Q.E.D. Possible "recourse to a dispute" here ,sir. If only Mr. Silke could have contained his eagerness to abandon logic and to grasp at all things with a red hue, he would not have come across as a jackass. I am not necessarily coming down on the side of Kerry or Tyrone, Jack or Micky. We are blessed to have witnessed both teams and both both managers in action but if somebody wants to advance the claims of one over the other, then the least I expect is objectivity and logic. On these grounds, Mr. Silke's light weight contribution is dismissed out of hand. Tyrone and Micky are cursed with some of their apologists.They deserve better. It should be pointed out that Jack O'Connor has won 3 All irelands and 3 National Leagues in 4 years managing Kerry. Even Mick O'Dwyer (not to mention managers from any 'other' counties) did not manage that in their first 4 years...... Must change my user name ;D
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Oct 22, 2009 12:00:27 GMT
Just came across this. Very funny
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Post by undercovereustace on Oct 22, 2009 15:17:33 GMT
It should be pointed out that Jack O'Connor has won 3 All irelands and 3 National Leagues in 4 years managing Kerry. Even Mick O'Dwyer (not to mention managers from any 'other' counties) did not manage that in their first 4 years...... Must change my user name ;D It should also be pointed out that Micko didn't have the back door!
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Oct 22, 2009 21:37:44 GMT
fair point about not having the backdoor. Both managers are great managers and perhaps the two best ones in the country at the moment (at least in my opinion). Who is the greatest? Impossible to compare I say
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