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Post by captaincharisma on Aug 31, 2009 15:18:32 GMT
Lots of pundits calling it for Cork already - which is fair enough and suits Kerry fine. If you go on the form shown all year by both sides it is understandable. Liam Hayes has already predicted our complete destruction by Cork in the All Ireland Final in his article prior to today’s semi-final in the Tribune - we wouldn't have it any other way from Liam - thanks very much. Nice to hear he hasn't switched sides nor changed his opinion. Maith an fear Liam Liam is a man who whatever he thinks on Saturday will be the same on Monday no matter what happens on Sunday.
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Post by mickthebridges on Aug 31, 2009 15:40:59 GMT
Kerrigan was poor against Limerick and Waterford too but since going to Croke Park he has really stepped it up. As has Kelly. Kellys footpassing is brillant.Seems to have a great footballing brain but then his father is from Kerry. Is that a fact. Never knew that. What part of Kerry is he from? We could do with a lad like that in the h.forward line as Paul mightn't last the full game, eh?
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chrism
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Post by chrism on Aug 31, 2009 16:16:59 GMT
Think Rathmore. Think P O Neill father is from Kerry as well. Do not know about any other Kerry connections. Fintan Goold is nephew to Colman Corrigan.
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Post by jackiel on Aug 31, 2009 17:00:22 GMT
In reply to derekcom regarding the effect of the U2 Concerts on the pitch surface, the pitch has had at least 2 games every week since then. It didn't look too well but there were no complaints from players and it has improved week on week. The fact that the shower happened just before the start was obviously a factor because early morning showers on previous weeks didn't seem to have the same effect.
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Derek
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Post by Derek on Aug 31, 2009 18:36:21 GMT
In reply to derekcom regarding the effect of the U2 Concerts on the pitch surface, the pitch has had at least 2 games every week since then. It didn't look too well but there were no complaints from players and it has improved week on week. The fact that the shower happened just before the start was obviously a factor because early morning showers on previous weeks didn't seem to have the same effect. if everytime it rains in Dublin the pitch is going to be crap then were in big trouble. Even the stadium director has admited it's a big issue due to the soil being too hard and it needs to be spiked. To give players studs a chance of getting a grip. To say it had nothing to do with the pitch being relaid after the u2 gigs is comical!
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 31, 2009 19:05:57 GMT
I think Tommy will start the final,with Donnacha losing out. I agree with other posters, no changes need from 1-9. I think we could be looking at... 10. Galvin 11. Declan O'Sullivan 12. Kennelly 13. Gooch 14. T Walsh 15. Darren O'Sullivan
Last year I was a staunch opponent of the campaign to start Galvin and in order to be consistent I'll say the same about Donaghy - great to have him back, but he probably can't start. Having said that full-forward and wing forward are very different positions,and I'm a huge Donaghy fan, but I wouldn't start him. Also, if he was to start it would probably be at the expense of Darren O'Sullivan which would cause a problem with the captaincy - I'm not saying Darren is only on for the captaincy, but lets face it there would be some fall-out if both himself and Donnacha were dropped.
Donaghy will have a crucial part to play though,and it will be a great option to have. Darragh will not last the 70 so Donaghy is an option at midfield. Also, I hear some people say that the Twin Towers tactic failed in the final last year which misses the point for me- it was the ball that was played in was the problem, not the men inside.
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Post by poulgorm on Aug 31, 2009 19:13:42 GMT
The Kerry GAA forum have been screaming for Miskella's head all week. As indeed were the RTE GAA panel.
Darragh O'Sé can be seen striking a Meath player in the fracas before half time. The Meath player went down: the ref took no action. So the GAA disciplinary body is free to revisit the scene.
But nobody is calling for it. The RTE panel dismissed it as handbag stuff. But if a Cork player had been involved...
I said it before...you are a bunch of hypocrites
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diehard
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"Have you ever seen a man eat his own head?"
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Post by diehard on Aug 31, 2009 19:34:15 GMT
The Darragh wasnt a clear cut striking offence. Miskella just turned around and clocked a lad big difference.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Aug 31, 2009 19:38:38 GMT
The Darragh wasnt a clear cut striking offence. Miskella just turned around and clocked a lad big difference. Diehard, the above poster doesn't deserve the right of reply.
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diehard
Senior Member
"Have you ever seen a man eat his own head?"
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Post by diehard on Aug 31, 2009 19:55:27 GMT
Fair enough, i suppose there will alot of that crap in the run up
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Derek
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Post by Derek on Aug 31, 2009 20:06:41 GMT
The Kerry GAA forum have been screaming for Miskella's head all week. As indeed were the RTE GAA panel. Darragh O'Sé can be seen striking a Meath player in the fracas before half time. The Meath player went down: the ref took no action. So the GAA disciplinary body is free to revisit the scene. But nobody is calling for it. The RTE panel dismissed it as handbag stuff. But if a Cork player had been involved... I said it before...you are a bunch of hypocrites You know where the log off button is then! If you think that Darragh's push was a true strike you've no idea what your on about. Did you ask yourself what the hell brian farrell was doing running out in front of him??
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Post by homerj on Aug 31, 2009 20:15:18 GMT
The Kerry GAA forum have been screaming for Miskella's head all week. As indeed were the RTE GAA panel. Darragh O'Sé can be seen striking a Meath player in the fracas before half time. The Meath player went down: the ref took no action. So the GAA disciplinary body is free to revisit the scene. But nobody is calling for it. The RTE panel dismissed it as handbag stuff. But if a Cork player had been involved... I said it before...you are a bunch of hypocrites punch in side of head which was seen - no action taken, the whole gaa world calls it a disgrace. a nothing incident that is not clear and the ref is a few feet away. fantastic contribution from you.
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fritz
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Post by fritz on Aug 31, 2009 20:52:31 GMT
IMO Goulding would make hay on tommy Tommy on OConnor even if he does roam out field You could be right kingdom but if the same full back line starts against cork as did yesterday we need to match them up... Colm o Neill was unreal against Tyrone and i think he is the real danger the next day thus putting tom sull on him...marc always does well on o connor when marc is fit not like munster final replay...goulding is the biggest of the full forward line so i think he is best suited to tom griff... As of now, I would tend to agree with Tottenham's match ups. Killian got a bit of a lesson from Dooher last year. One year's experience on, he's getting ready for his third final. This time he could be up against a final day novice in Kerrigan, who I think is the kind of player who could either have a stinker or play a blinder with nothing in between. It almost goes without saying but Mike McCarthy is a HUGE addition to that backline who played in Cork. Let's see if Pearse O'Neill can bully his way around the place now. Tom Sullivan is also switched on and having a vintage year. Whoever wins the midfield diamond - 6,8,9,11 - will surely win this final. In stopping Cork we need to negate one of their big strengths this year - their kick-outs, which have been superb. I agree re Colm O'Neill, I think that kid's got the lot. What a couple weeks to savour.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 31, 2009 21:07:07 GMT
Fritz wrote ;
Whoever wins the midfield diamond - 6,8,9,11 - will surely win this final.
In stopping Cork we need to negate one of their big strengths this year - their kick-outs, which have been superb.
Thats the long and the short of it.
I think Cork are better that Kerry and I expect Cork to win this final.
They have the look of Tyrone of 2003 about them
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Aug 31, 2009 22:06:07 GMT
Kickouts look superb when Pierse O'Neill is winning them uncontested as he was in the Munster Semi. That won't happen in 3 weeks time.
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Post by gilly343 on Sept 1, 2009 0:40:41 GMT
I just read a comment on the Cork Site where a certain poster reckons Cork have the advantage in the half back line,midfield and half forward line.I find this very interesting.However i would agree with this same poster who thinks Kerry's full back and full forward line is better then Corks.I know many of you may see this as irrelevant as it is a team game but it is also about individuals performing on the day.I would argue that Kerry have the upper hand in the midfield area as Darragh has time and time again proven himself to be too good for Nicolas Murphy and while Seamus is criticised for his footballing ability on this site i still feel he is a better player then Alan O'Connor.The half back line is a very interesting debate as this line has been Cork's best line to date this year.However Kerry's is probably the form line in the team at the moment with Killian,Tomas and Mike Mac all playing as well as ever.I'm not sure if many of ye would agree with me re the Cork half forward line but I think it is a weak link,but there is no doubt that the open spaces of CP would suit their players.Taking this into account I still feel Kerry have superior players in this line.Overall i might have a very biased view but I think Kerry have the better players in all lines of the field with the possible exception of the half back lines who are fairly evenly matched.Another thing i read was one poster was in no doubt who he would choose as his no.13.While Daniel Goulding has a very good scoring record against Kerry he is very limited when it comes to ball winning and he only has a left leg but I wouldn't start Tommy Griffin on him as I feel he would be a small bit too sharp and quick for Tommy
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2009 8:17:12 GMT
Jacks interview in last saturdays paper was most revealing.
First of all he put to bed the discussion about why Kerry were so bad in june against Cork. Its wasnt club games, it wasnt that too much was expended on winning the league. It was more prosaic...... they had little work done. He clearly decided that all efforts would be kept for the final three games in the 6 weeks before the final and they would ride their luck in the qualifiers if Cork beat them in Munster.
He said that the emphasis now is not on giving the ball away "cheaply". He used the actual word. The ball is kicked dead from attacks.... either a score or a wide.
All very sensible stuff.
Against Dublin and Meath, Kerry were gifted possession by sloppy play from both Meath and Dublin.
Cork wont do that.
So ....... Kerry must win their own share of possession and retain it. Cork wont gift any easy possession to Kerry. They didnt gift any to Tyrone.
There is the nub.
Will Kerry get their hands on the ball enough against Cork.
In the Munster Final Cork destroyed Kerry from kickouts. Back then Pierce O Neill was being marked by Aiden who was off the pace.
It can be expected that about 14 kickouts by Quirke will be from the 21 metre line. These kickouts will bypass the midfield and Pierce O'Neill will attack them. This tactic murdered Kerry in the Munster Final.
C'mon Jack..... be ready for that one this time!
Against Tyrone, the first two scores for Cork came from short kickouts from Quirke which Cork worked up the field leading to a goal and a point.
So the short ones must be watched too.
In a nutshell what I am saying is this; Cork wont gift Kerry any cheap posession like Meath and Dublin did. Kerry must gain 50% possession from restarts. If they do that they will win it. However, I dont believe Kerry will achieve this.
Darragh is 34 and is not superhuman. I cant recall a team winning an All Ireland with a 34 year year old midfielder. Scanlon has been immense but what if he has a poor day out. Quirke was brought on against Meath obviously with a view to playing him at some point in the final. David Moran will not feature. The solution would have been to move Donaghy out to the middle to shore things up there but with no game time, thats unlikely.
Cork have enough scoring point to outscore Kerry if they get 60% of possession as clearly they are capable of doing.
Kerry have reached the final by beating Sligo, Antrim, and three teams from the much derided province of Leinster.
Corks path has been much harder......
Jason Sherlock was the only man with an All Ireland medal in "Kerrys road" this year.
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Post by sullyschoice on Sept 1, 2009 8:28:26 GMT
And Nigel Crawford
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osama
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Post by osama on Sept 1, 2009 8:31:58 GMT
Corks path has been much harder...... Jason Sherlock was the only man with an All Ireland medal in "Kerrys road" this year. Jaysus Mick you'd hardly refuse another soft one at the expense of the gang across the border.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 8:34:13 GMT
Jacks interview in last saturdays paper was most revealing. First of all he put to bed the discussion about why Kerry were so bad in june against Cork. Its wasnt club games, it wasnt that too much was expended on winning the league. It was more prosaic...... they had little work done. He clearly decided that all efforts would be kept for the final three games in the 6 weeks before the final and they would ride their luck in the qualifiers if Cork beat them in Munster. He said that the emphasis now is not on giving the ball away "cheaply". He used the actual word. The ball is kicked dead from attacks.... either a score or a wide. All very sensible stuff. Against Dublin and Meath, Kerry were gifted possession by sloppy play from both Meath and Dublin. Cork wont do that. So ....... Kerry must win their own share of possession and retain it. Cork wont gift any easy possession to Kerry. They didnt gift any to Tyrone. There is the nub. Will Kerry get their hands on the ball enough against Cork. In the Munster Final Cork destroyed Kerry from kickouts. Back then Pierce O Neill was being marked by Aiden who was off the pace. It can be expected that about 14 kickouts by Quirke will be from the 21 metre line. These kickouts will bypass the midfield and Pierce O'Neill will attack them. This tactic murdered Kerry in the Munster Final. C'mon Jack..... be ready for that one this time! Against Tyrone, the first two scores for Cork came from short kickouts from Quirke which Cork worked up the field leading to a goal and a point. So the short ones must be watched too. In a nutshell what I am saying is this; Cork wont gift Kerry any cheap posession like Meath and Dublin did. Kerry must gain 50% possession from restarts. If they do that they will win it. However, I dont believe Kerry will achieve this. Darragh is 34 and is not superhuman. I cant recall a team winning an All Ireland with a 34 year year old midfielder. Scanlon has been immense but what if he has a poor day out. Quirke was brought on against Meath obviously with a view to playing him at some point in the final. David Moran will not feature. The solution would have been to move Donaghy out to the middle to shore things up there but with no game time, thats unlikely. Cork have enough scoring point to outscore Kerry if they get 60% of possession as clearly they are capable of doing. Kerry have reached the final by beating Sligo, Antrim, and three teams from the much derided province of Leinster. Corks path has been much harder...... Jason Sherlock was the only man with an All Ireland medal in "Kerrys road" this year. Hard to disagree with you here. We clearly gambled this year in terms of physical preparation due to the milage on the clock. We were miles off the pace against Cork. At this moment in time I don't see us beating Cork. This is a superbly prepared Cork team which tick all the boxes of champions other than the fact they have not won one yet.
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chrism
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Post by chrism on Sept 1, 2009 8:36:57 GMT
I think Cork totally fooled Tyrone with their kickouts. They have some many options. At one stage in the second half Donnacha o Connor was getting short kicks from Alan Quirke. Also if they go long they have a choice of great fielders. While we have Scanlon back , Murphy and O Connor have both improved a lot from earlierin the summer. O Connor was very good the last day before the sending off.Feel Mike McCarthy will do a lot better on O Neill but when he heads on one of his speedy runs he can be impossible to stop.Donegal paid huge attention to him but Kerrigan and Kelly had huge freedom then.
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Sept 1, 2009 8:37:35 GMT
Many ponderables there Mickmack - some good points. I think though you're basing the guts of your opinion on the different roads both teams travelled to get where they are now and that Corks has been tougher.
On closer inspection however, has Corks really been that tough?
Waterford - facile victory
Kerry - underprepared, will be a completely different proposition. Throw in Star for good measure.
Limerick - dogged and almost beat them
Donegal - facile victory
Tyrone - a tired team who didnt show up and lacked their talismanic SC.
That said Cork have been the form side, no doubt about it. Kerry will need to run of the breaks and at least 50% possession as you have pointed out.
Throw in the pyschological factor, allied to the fact that a lot of these players hate one another and I think you got the makings of a classic.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 1, 2009 8:44:44 GMT
As opposed to the replayed Munster Final, on September 20th Kerry will have:
Paul Galvin for 75 minutes Mike McCarthy A revatilised Diarmiud Murphy A fit Marc O Se A fitter Darragh O Se Seamus Scanlon A half fit Donaghy if needed Tadgh Kennelly with 5 more games under his belt
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 1, 2009 8:50:05 GMT
As opposed to the replayed Munster Final, on September 20th Kerry will have: Paul Galvin for 75 minutes Mike McCarthy A revatilised Diarmiud Murphy A fit Marc O Se A fitter Darragh O Se Seamus Scanlon A half fit Donaghy if needed Tadgh Kennelly with 5 more games under his belt A fit Tommy Walsh and a Gooch in the zone also. Cork will have to be scintillating to beat kerry on the 20th,the question is have they another gear in them. I quess we'll see did Cork actually "out Tyroned Tyrone" or is that just lazy analysis.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Sept 1, 2009 9:02:54 GMT
Its a very exciting prospect and difficult to fully get the head around yet. As a side note, Seamus Scanlon was my man of the match on Sunday...theres no doubt that the point ASA made a few weeks ago about Croke Park bringing out a significant improvement in Seamus' performance is true. The Meath game, although widely derided as very poor in quality, was intriguing and worrying in equal measure or depending on how seriously you weigh those two components, maybe in unequal measure! Someone else has mentioned the number of times Darragh was unmarked for kick-outs and the ball was never directed towards him. Also, shortly after he came on, Mike Quirke found himself alone inside the Meath full-back line, screaming for the ball but the player in possession didn't look up. Paul Galvin won a misplaced kick-out by the Meath goalie shortly before the finish...the obvious ball at the time seemed to be to try to drive it in over the retreating goalkeepers head but instead we tried to work the ball in and it slipped out over the endline. The game reminded me, for some reason I can't put my finger on entirely, of semi-finals in the late seventies/early eighties when Kerry did what was necessary.
I think we will produce a vastly different performance in the final. I don't think its an automatic 'given' that Tommy Walsh will start but its more than likely at this point. So who loses out..Donnacha? Tadhg? I think thats the choice and I'm not sure which it will be, if Tommy is to start. I can't see Kieran starting. Right now, I would start a half forward line of Donnacha/Tommy/Paul but that may well change over the next 3 weeks.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2009 9:45:35 GMT
As opposed to the replayed Munster Final, on September 20th Kerry will have: Paul Galvin for 75 minutes Mike McCarthy A revatilised Diarmiud Murphy A fit Marc O Se A fitter Darragh O Se Seamus Scanlon A half fit Donaghy if needed Tadgh Kennelly with 5 more games under his belt True I would read nothing whatsoever into the games in the Munster championship.... The only use they have is to study Corks tactics and devise plans to negate them should they decide to repeat them. Corks games against Donegal and Tyrone revealed a driven Cork side with huge physycal presence, a huge work ethic, self belief. Cavanagh was sick we know and McGinley was returning from injury but you cant take from Corks demolition job.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Sept 1, 2009 10:20:15 GMT
One thing is for certain, if Darragh plays the way he did on Sunday we'll be cleaned. I know it wasn't a day for clean catching, but he'll really have to up it 40%. But no better man to deliver.
As for our prospects of beating Cork, 50:50 if I'm honest, but all this talking our chances down are just nonsense. Yes we haven't beaten the traditional strong teams on our way (except Dublin) but to say we haven't been tested is crap. We have and as much, if not more, than Cork. We drew with them in Killarney and it took a penalty to see us off in Cork when we hadn't done any work and had obvious problems on and off the pitch. Yes Cork have improved since then, but then so have we. Hunger shouldn't be an issue for either side.
Man for man, Kerry still have a better squad. We know Cork, unlike previous years, will be up for this one. Question is will we?
We showed just about enough to get through the qualifiers and when the real questions were being asked before the Dublin game, this team gave their answer. Have no doubt that they will be up for this.
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Post by boghopper on Sept 1, 2009 10:39:49 GMT
cork's most important player could be alan quirke. its already been alluded to that his kick outs are top notch in terms of ball retention.
this will be the fear láidir last game and I hope he has a good one because it will be needed.
i think counihan might target dara by either playing pearse o'neill on him to run the legs off him or at half time you might see fintan goold come on and his a dangerous operator running at teams.
its vital or half back line and half forward line pick up more than equal share of breaks tomá and galvin were outstanding in this respect on sunday.
its vital we get the match ups right, particularily in the full back line. i'd like to see tom sullivan on o'neill. mark on goulding and tommy g on donnacha o connor.
my team would be 1.murphy 2.marc 3.tommy 4. tom sullivan 5. tomás 6. mike mac 7. young 8. dara 9. scanlon 10. galvin 11 declan 12. tadhg 13. colm 14. tommy walsh 15. darren
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Post by tottenham on Sept 1, 2009 10:48:14 GMT
I would go along the lines of this...
1. Diarmuid 2. Marc 3. Tommy 4. Tom 5. Tomas 6. Mike 7. Killian 8. Dara 9. seamus 10. Paul 11. Tadhg 12. Darren 13. Gooch 14. Tommy 15. Declan
Maybe we could interchange tommy and declan but we need declan close to goals in my opinion...he was deadly there against the dubs...play darren on miskella to track him and also keep him on the back foot. Tadhg has to mark canty IMO..declan at 11 would not be disciplined enough to track cantys runs and declan seems to hold the ball for too long when he is played further out the field and we will need quick ball the next day or we will be crucified by corks physicality if we dont
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 1, 2009 11:04:54 GMT
As opposed to the replayed Munster Final, on September 20th Kerry will have: Paul Galvin for 75 minutes You can't guarantee that........Cork won with 14 men the last day against Tyrone. You telling me Noel O'Leary wouldn't sacrifice his game for the greater good and take aim at Paul from the beginning??
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