exiled
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Posts: 322
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Post by exiled on May 21, 2023 11:05:54 GMT
What did we think of Aidan O'Shea challenge on Paudi Clifford from the throw in. I thought very lucky to escape a card. A tackle like that in Rugby Union would be automatic RED Card. It was a 50/50 ball in fairness. Both went to ground..just an unfortunate incident.
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Post by thehermit on May 21, 2023 11:17:27 GMT
Sweet Jesus what happened yesterday. Stuck yo the ground from the throw in. A surreal day in fact. The atmosphere was like a McGrath Cup match. 23,000 present and they saying all week it was close to a sell out.
I don't mind being bate, especially when you're outdone by the better side as Mayo were all day long.
But for me, records, history, tradition those things matter, they matter a hell of a lot. And to throw away a proud 28 year home record do meekly. I don't know.
Maybe it's my hangover, maybe it's the fact I left my jacket behind me in the Grand, but I'm descending into despair about our season 😭
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Post by john4 on May 21, 2023 11:22:02 GMT
Mayo are a serious team this year. They've their best 8,9,11, 12 and 14 they've ever had. Ah now, I agree Mayo are a contender but let's not exaggerate. Mayo have a fine athletic 8 and 9 but it's not their best midfield ever and I'm watching them for decades (I can't speak for what they had before the late 70s' but I certainly remember Willie Joe, then Liam McHale and even Tom Parsons was no slouch in midfield and would easily start ahead of todays pairing. I know Mayo had some legends further back in time but I can't speak to them. There are far better midfield pairings around the place than Mayo but the real worry is Kerry are just so poor in this sector right now. I'm sure the Mayo midfield would like to play us every week at the moment but they were well horsed out of it against Roscommon and indeed against Galway in the league final recently won. This being said, Mayo have a fine panel of players overall with loads of athleticism and a serious top notch management team. McStay could prove to be the real game changer for Mayo. I don't know, I've also seen the above mentioned Mayo men in action but the guys they have in the middle of the field now are ahead of them. The format of this year's championship is very new and it might be the case that different teams (S&C people in particular) have different views on how teams need to prepare for peak fitness. It's still quite early in the competition, There's 10 weeks left in this thing and we're still in it.
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Post by listowelemerrs on May 21, 2023 12:05:52 GMT
The reality is we have no players coming through until rob monahan and maybe one or 2 more youngster step up in the next 2/3 years… so we need to get back to as close as possible to our team last year. We need Spillane back in the squad fast. 1) Shane Ryan 2) Graham O Sullivan 3) Jason Foley 4) Tom O'Sullivan 5) Brian begley 6) Tadgh Morley 7) Gavin White 8) Adrian Spillane 9) Barry O'Sullivan 10) Stephen O'Brien 11) Paudie Clifford 12) Diarmuid O Connor 13) David Clifford 14) Seán O'Shea 15) Paul Geaney
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on May 21, 2023 12:14:53 GMT
Can’t see too many changes Tony, Dara and Dylan to lose their places, be my best guess and maybe only 2 of them.
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Post by dc84 on May 21, 2023 12:37:56 GMT
Rough day yesterday midfield wasnt great but the mayo half lines dominated in particular their half forward line they ran the game imo. Adrian made a bit of a difference when he came on he has to start the next day for me. I thought morley was poor aswell the well flagged plus one sweeper role he does has been analysed to death by teams we probably need to rethink things there. Id like the below the next day Ryan Graham Foley Tom s. Beaglaoich Breen White Barry Diarmuid A.spillane Paudie O brien O shea David clifford Geaney
I think a two man inside line with o shea on the d rather than the 40 would be better its late in the year so massive changes arent really practical. Thought both murphys added something off the bench but pauls height added to the others relative lack of same would lead me to start mike breen instead. Would be happy if ruari started instead of o brien aswell. Secondly mayo were excellent yesterday in fairness to them.
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on May 21, 2023 14:00:02 GMT
What did we think of Aidan O'Shea challenge on Paudi Clifford from the throw in. I thought very lucky to escape a card. A tackle like that in Rugby Union would be automatic RED Card. I thought his later use of his forearm into the face in the first half warranted a red. That was cowardly. Aidan is a poor tackler so I don't think the first tackle at the start was intentional to injure, but his later effort was.
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Post by piskin on May 21, 2023 15:59:03 GMT
Bitterly disappointing but if we look at the year as a whole yesterday's performance was coming. It's an immense credit to the two Clifford's that they played as well as they did yesterday given the very difficult weeks they have endured. I can't add anything that's not already been said my only real gripe is Mayo overran our HF and MF in Castlebar and yet we didn't recognise that and address it. The game in Castlebar was where the glaring factor was evident yet nothing had been done to rectify it.
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Post by sullyschoice on May 21, 2023 16:02:20 GMT
Not that it matters but did anyone else think Mayo's last point of the first half was wide? Looked that way to me anyway (terrace, around the Lewis Road side 45 line). O'Shea still at the handoff to the face stuff. Good to see him pinged for it yesterday, getting away with it for years. Probably should have been carded as well mind. Have to say he had a good game though. It certainly looked wide to me
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Post by piskin on May 21, 2023 16:05:52 GMT
The reality is we have no players coming through until rob monahan and maybe one or 2 more youngster step up in the next 2/3 years… so we need to get back to as close as possible to our team last year. We need Spillane back in the squad fast. 1) Shane Ryan 2) Graham O Sullivan 3) Jason Foley 4) Tom O'Sullivan 5) Brian begley 6) Tadgh Morley 7) Gavin White 8) Adrian Spillane 9) Barry O'Sullivan 10) Stephen O'Brien 11) Paudie Clifford 12) Diarmuid O Connor 13) David Clifford 14) Seán O'Shea 15) Paul Geaney Good team to start with
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Post by Ballyfireside on May 21, 2023 16:12:19 GMT
Ah maybe 'tis a wobble on a road we are still on - is it better to be 2nd or top the group?
Now if we don't get back on track and Cork trouble us, then we it will be a worry and a problem as I see it is that an exposed vulnerability works wonders for the belief of subsequent opponents. Limerick small ballers have just had their second suspect performance and nobody is ruling them out.
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thepope
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Post by thepope on May 21, 2023 17:51:15 GMT
Below is the path we’d have to negotiate to make the final this year. (2-week gap) June 3/ 4 Cork v. Kerry (2-week gap) June 17 Louth v. Kerry (1-week gap) June 24 preliminary quarter (Killarney if we finish 2nd) (1-week gap) July 1 actual quarter (2-week gap) July 15/ 16 semi-finals (2-week gap) July 30 final
Plenty posters worried about the lethargy of our performance vs. Mayo. This lethargy was apparent during the league but the competition was dismissed as not being a priority. Its time to put our best foot forward from now on. Tactically we were off it yesterday and Jack admitted as much to media. Watching the game yesterday-
Shane Ryan was slow to spot options on some short kickouts. He had improved massively on this last year so hopefully yesterday was a once off. He did save 4 efforts at goal though so can’t be too harsh! Dylan Casey was kinda hung out to dry by management expecting him to take on the bigger, more experienced Aidan O’Shea. O’Shea used his experience winning ball ahead of his marker and engineered 2 first half frees that were doubtful enough. O’Shea played well and had too much for him. Tom O’Sullivan didn’t have a great game by his standards, but he’s not likely to repeat that performance. I think we’ll eventually end up with the same starting six defenders we had last year, assuming O’Beaglaíoch gets fully fit. Tom O’Sullivan and Gavin White are 2 of our biggest attacking threats, for that reason I’d be playing a 4-man half forward line with 2 inside forwards and see if Gavin and Tom can break lines to supply them, as well as Paudie Clifford who would probably play on our side of our HF line. We gave up 5 goal chances yesterday whereas last year we were rock solid. I think the reason for that is further out the field in the forwards we are selecting.
Midfield was poor enough. With Moran retired, O’Connor and Okunbar out, we’re short of options here. Adrian Spillane or Barry Dan might get called in to midfield with maybe Diarmuid moving to wing-forward but that leaves us light on midfield options off the bench then. Contributing to the poor midfield display was Shane Ryan kicking to areas where we were outnumbered when he went long. On the other hand maybe we didn’t have the right type of players out there to get in and win breaking ball on the ground.
The forward division needs to be looked at. If we’re starting Brosnan, Geaney, Clifford x2- do we have enough work rate there and do we have fellas who will put bodies on the line to win ground ball. I would argue that we can only play Brosnan or Geaney at any one time- we concede too much work rate when both are on. Seán O’Shea is a Rolls Royce of a footballer, but does he have the build/legs for the middle third? Sometimes you’d watch him and say ‘yeah’ but other days he really struggles to keep up with the quick pace of transition in that area of the pitch. I think it’s time to move him inside with David Clifford. Defenders would not rest easy with that big a scoring threat inside.
Finally, as regards how we look to play. It feels we rely too much on David Clifford miracles to open up teams but we might also be keeping powder dry. However, we’re now at the point in the summer where we need to be putting out best foot forward.
Team I’d be going with at this stage- 4-man HF line with Dara Moynihan not playing as a 15.
1. Shane Ryan 2. Graham O’Sullivan 3. Jason Foley 4. Tom O’Sullivan 5. Brian O’Beaglaíoch 6. Tadhg Morley 7. Gavin White 8. Jack Barry 9. Barry ‘Dan’ O’Sullivan 10. Adrian Spillane 11. Paudie Clifford 12. Diarmuid O’Connor 13. David Clifford 14. Seán O’Shea 15. Dara Moynihan
off the bench brosnan, o'brien and geaney (is killian spillane totally out of it?) should be able to score later in the game. also, think outside the box on midfleid options, maybe take off adrian or diarmuid at HT and bring htem back in with 10-15 to go as tyrone did years ago with canavan as i'm using nearly all midfield options at the start.
We’ve to beat 2 Division 2 teams to get a home preliminary quarter- we should be able for this.
Ciarraí Abú
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Post by crokes86 on May 21, 2023 20:36:59 GMT
I just don’t think we have the players . What we have in the panel right now is pretty much it . It was a bad display yesterday but we still have a chance to make it through.
Midfield is definitely a problem but apart from maybe Darragh Lyne I don’t see anyone else in the county for this level. We’ve struggled at u20 level the last few years to bring in quality players and it’s showing up now as far as quality off the bench .
McStay has done a fantastic job this year . He’s bought in a lot of young talent and he’s put together a strong panel. They’ll be there or thereabouts at the end .
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 21, 2023 20:50:20 GMT
One thing I can't figure out is how Ronan Buckley hasn't seen game time.
He had a very good championship with his club and East Kerry.
He would be a good partner for O'Connor as he'd bring that edge and aggression and he can kick a score.
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exiled
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Post by exiled on May 21, 2023 21:21:41 GMT
I just don’t think we have the players . What we have in the panel right now is pretty much it . It was a bad display yesterday but we still have a chance to make it through. Midfield is definitely a problem but apart from maybe Darragh Lyne I don’t see anyone else in the county for this level. We’ve struggled at u20 level the last few years to bring in quality players and it’s showing up now as far as quality off the bench . McStay has done a fantastic job this year . He’s bought in a lot of young talent and he’s put together a strong panel. They’ll be there or thereabouts at the end . Mayo haven't had much success at under age..less than Kerry but McStay has still found players. Some players that would never have had games under Horan. If you're good enough you're old enough. One thing surprised me yesterday was how slow Kerry were. I looked at Paul Murphy when introduced and he seems to have bulked up especially on his legs. Has he lost pace because of this. Mayo had pace all over we didn't. Has the game changed a little from the gym years, in that pace is now so important. Saying that Gavin White made runs yesterday but had to turn back as no options opened up. That's a sideline issue.
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Post by thehermit on May 21, 2023 21:31:22 GMT
Just a personal opinion about yesterday's non-performance but I reckon when assessing it you have to take into account what has gone on around the team over the last two weeks. I know they are a really tight bunch, the Cliffords are hugely popular within the dressing room, the emotional toll on all of them must have been huge.
Mentally they just didn't seem tuned in from the throw-in.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on May 21, 2023 23:15:38 GMT
Just a personal opinion about yesterday's non-performance but I reckon when assessing it you have to take into account what has gone on around the team over the last two weeks. I know they are a really tight bunch, the Cliffords are hugely popular within the dressing room, the emotional toll on all of them must have been huge. Mentally they just didn't seem tuned in from the throw-in. Very valid point hermit,, the Clare game brought a lot of passion due to the circumstances, the team did look tired yesterday, but maybe that was mayo’s energy, they are always well conditioned.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on May 22, 2023 9:30:12 GMT
I agree with a lot of what has been said on here. We certainly lacked energy for whatever reason. This 'set-back' may do us good if we react as Jacks teams normally do. I would restore Graham O'Sullivan to the full-back line and Brian O'Beaglaoich to the #5 position. I would give some thought to moving Tom O'Sullivan to centre-back and Paul Murphy in at left corner back. I'm not certain on that one but would like to have a look at it. Tadhg has done little wrong to be fair but we need to freshen things up. I'd bring Barry Dan in at midfield and move Diarmuid to right half forward. Adrian did enough I thought in the second half to start at left half forward the next day.
I agree very much with those saying Seanie is out of form. Even his free kicking has been inconsistent since he came back from injury. I'd be inclined to move him into full-forward, flanked by David and Paul (who I thought played as well on Saturday as he has done in a long time). Paudie at centre-forward then. We need to get a lot more energy and freshness in and around the middle third.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 22, 2023 10:20:19 GMT
Kerry have lost every game I've attended this year.
That must be a record ...
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Post by dod2102 on May 22, 2023 10:21:13 GMT
Poor performance all around bar clifford and Ryan.. it happens.. good thing is we have time and the right games to rectify it .. the cork game number one priority is get a win and number 2 is keep cork to 10 scores need to get a mean defence back again will not be happy with winning 2-20 to 1-15 need a defence to win an all Ireland as we know we can turn it on at the other end .. on personnel tadhg morley looked lost the weekend didn’t seem to be prepared for what Mayo were going to do and that’s a let down from management I feel he want prepared . Caveat to all this as mentioned is that the last 3 weeks must have been hard in squad and management so deserve a bit of leeway..
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kot
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Post by kot on May 22, 2023 10:50:01 GMT
2 days later and the disappointment and frustration has only simmered down a small bit. A training block and time to go away and take stock after the league seems to have done no good. Still played the same slow & ponderous football.
Absolutely cleaned out in Midfield and it should have been as bad, if not worse, than Castlebar in February at half time. Granted we missed a few goal chances of our in the 2nd half but a 5 point defeat still flattered us.
There was no structure or plan at all it seemed and thats on management. There is a theory in the premier league that surprise packages get figured out the following season unless they change & adapt. Well, the same could be true for Kerry - they came with something different last year and are now flogging the same players and teams are figuring out how to pull their defensive structure apart.
You add that to the only tactic we have going forward which is to go in a an arch from corner flag to corner flag via the 45 and its no wonder a decent Mayo side with a bit of structure did a number on us. Even in '06 & '09 when we picked ourselves up from a bad place to win the All Ireland they had won the league beforehand to fall back on. We have 2 nothing victories against Clare & Tipp to fall back on this year so hope is waning when you look beyond the knock out stage.
I hope I'm wrong.
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Post by thehermit on May 22, 2023 11:02:28 GMT
Kerry have lost every game I've attended this year. That must be a record ... I think its a 50/50 split for me! Some change since last year
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on May 22, 2023 11:13:15 GMT
Kerry have lost every game I've attended this year. That must be a record ... Stop bloody going to matches!
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on May 22, 2023 11:23:09 GMT
2 days later and the disappointment and frustration has only simmered down a small bit. A training block and time to go away and take stock after the league seems to have done no good. Still played the same slow & ponderous football. Absolutely cleaned out in Midfield and it should have been as bad, if not worse, than Castlebar in February at half time. Granted we missed a few goal chances of our in the 2nd half but a 5 point defeat still flattered us. There was no structure or plan at all it seemed and thats on management. There is a theory in the premier league that surprise packages get figured out the following season unless they change & adapt. Well, the same could be true for Kerry - they came with something different last year and are now flogging the same players and teams are figuring out how to pull their defensive structure apart. You add that to the only tactic we have going forward which is to go in a an arch from corner flag to corner flag via the 45 and its no wonder a decent Mayo side with a bit of structure did a number on us. Even in '06 & '09 when we picked ourselves up from a bad place to win the All Ireland they had won the league beforehand to fall back on. We have 2 nothing victories against Clare & Tipp to fall back on this year so hope is waning when you look beyond the knock out stage. I hope I'm wrong. That's not all on the 2 Na Gaeil lads. There was a few occasions where we did well around the middle to break the ball but inevitably the breaks were won by Mayo lads.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 22, 2023 11:47:33 GMT
Kerry have lost every game I've attended this year. That must be a record ... Stop bloody going to matches! The thought has crossed my mind !
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Post by thehermit on May 22, 2023 11:58:52 GMT
Yes that was very noticeable throughout the game. It wasn't so much Jack and Diarmaid being totally overrun but the inability of our half backs/half forwards to successfully get to the 'dirty ball'.
That's why Galvin was worth his weight in gold, the best player I ever saw for that.
Adrian would help big time so I'd be starting him against Cork, if Killian is back we should be turning to him as well.
The injuries to Joe O'Connor and Stefan have really weakened our options around the middle which magnifies the loss of Moran.
I saw Stefan in the Laurels after the game, you could only ruffly reflect on the impact he might have made out on the pitch if he was fully fit.
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Post by edgeofthesquare on May 22, 2023 12:18:46 GMT
The injuries to Joe O'Connor and Stefan have really weakened our options around the middle which magnifies the loss of Moran. I saw Stefan in the Laurels after the game, you could only ruffly reflect on the impact he might have made out on the pitch if he was fully fit. Stefan wouldn’t have made any difference in my opinion, he’s not up to this level at all currently. He was poor before he got injured in that game vs Tyrone let’s call a spade a spade. Joe O’Connor though is a big loss. If he’d been fit he could have stepped up and became the main man at midfield this year. Still other options such as Mark Ryan and Ronan Buckley should have been tried in the league, management only have themselves to blame there.
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Post by taggert on May 22, 2023 12:48:45 GMT
I'd say Mayo could not believe their luck with the the following: - Kerry learned nothing from their porous and anaemic February display in Castlebar - Kerry placed their biggest defensive rookie on Mayo's most experienced player - Kerry had no plan - well the same ill conceived plan as before - for Ryan O'Donoghue - Kerry picked three shooters, none of whom are known for their defensive prowess against a Mayo team who bust a gut running forward and then some - Kerry persisted with a defensive structure that has been found out in 2023 - Kerry played far too many one-paced footballers in the middle eight
A final point i'd make is if fellas are not firing or on firm, suggesting they move position and stay on the team says very little indeed about the quality or lack thereof from the bench.
Begley, Barry Dan and Spillane to start against Cork with possibly more changes.
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Post by kerryblueboy on May 22, 2023 12:55:53 GMT
Hello all long time viewer first time posting my thoughts after Saturday are we are carrying a few players that need to be rotated other teams have sussed out our defensive system and just push up on Morley to negate him I would try Mike breen at 6 and begley at 5 a Spillane and d o Connor midfield with s o Brien and Ronan Buckley coming in for Brosnan and Moynihan hopefully jack will change it up
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Post by edgeofthesquare on May 22, 2023 13:09:44 GMT
Tom O’Sullivan is a top class marker and we need to keep him at corner back. Often even top class markers really struggle on a certain player and it seems Ryan O’Donoghue is that player for Tom.
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