peanuts
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,861
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Post by peanuts on May 20, 2023 23:04:03 GMT
Fact is Jack Barry & D o Connor do not boss the midfield in Championship games. I had hopes for D o Connor but it looks like he is not up to scratch. These 2 have years of experience in the championship yet they have failed to establish themselves. The biggest issue today was that we didn’t play a third midfielder in Spillane or Barry Dan and we were outnumbered there as a result.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
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Post by pillar on May 20, 2023 23:04:36 GMT
Fact is Jack Barry & D o Connor do not boss the midfield in Championship games. I had hopes for D o Connor but it looks like he is not up to scratch. These 2 have years of experience in the championship yet they have failed to establish themselves. Not disagreeing with you, problem is what the alternative?
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Post by Kingdomson on May 20, 2023 23:09:01 GMT
Kerry are showing nothing new from last year but clearly the grit and overall edge is missing. Has the hunger been sated for a few fellas? As always, actions speak louder than words.
Not sure even if the grit and edge was there we could replay the same trick because if you’re not evolving - you are staying static at best and eventually going backward. Moreover, having failed to unearth any genuine new starting options my hope coming into this championship for Kerry was established players such as Seán O’Shea and Diarmuid O'Connor would grow further as leaders and become more consistent performers for Kerry. I was seriously hoping Diarmuid O'Connor would explode this year and become the man in midfield, as I don’t expect much from Jack Barry at this stage. Perhaps he might yet but the jury now is out and true form is not turned on and off like a tap.
Perhaps my expectation is unfair and those mentioned were not the only men missing in action today. Really I feel sorry for our captain and leader David Clifford who is left carrying this team on his back to an unfair degree.
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Post by themanfromthewest on May 20, 2023 23:09:56 GMT
Fact is Jack Barry & D o Connor do not boss the midfield in Championship games. I had hopes for D o Connor but it looks like he is not up to scratch. These 2 have years of experience in the championship yet they have failed to establish themselves. The biggest issue today was that we didn’t play a third midfielder in Spillane or Barry Dan and we were outnumbered there as a result. This. We needed a third midfielder today. Adrian Spillane or Barry Dan, or at the very least put Adrian in at wing forward. That is where the game was lost
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 20, 2023 23:14:06 GMT
I think we might have to think outside the box or do something unexpected to solve our middle third woes. I don't know if the answer is in our current squad or there at all.
We can't press the opposition kickout as we can't trust our midfield / half lines to win clean ball or the breaks. When we let mayo have the short kick out we didnt seem to have the legs to stay with the runners. I don't agree with those saying Paudie is too easily taken out of the game.
DM and SOS are contributing nothing in the half forward line. I think it's more the case that the hf line is dysfunctional and he's getting lost in it. He still shows for a pile of ball and carries it well.
I think we see the value of David Moran to this team now. He controlled the skies in the middle so when we did a full press hitting long was 50/50 at best. His kick passing was able to go over our half forward line direct to the full forward line.
BOB has to come back in. Even though he has hardly no football played, I think Steven O'Brien might have to come back in. Even though it's a retrograde step in terms of team development; needs must.
Dylan Casey on AOS today was madness. The only thing worse was leaving him on him.
Teams have figured out Tadhg Morely. So what do we do now? If he doesn't play as sweeper is he a stopper centre back?
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Post by piskin on May 20, 2023 23:23:09 GMT
Fact is Jack Barry & D o Connor do not boss the midfield in Championship games. I had hopes for D o Connor but it looks like he is not up to scratch. These 2 have years of experience in the championship yet they have failed to establish themselves. Not disagreeing with you, problem is what the alternative? Dropping both and bring in A Spillane & maybe Barry Dan, or else scour the county for a midfielder, there is surely better than Jack Barry out there.
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Post by piskin on May 20, 2023 23:25:49 GMT
I am not Stephen o Briens biggest fan but he is brave & strong and wins a lot of dirty ball. Even at his age he is a way better than Dara Moynihan.
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Post by rossranger on May 20, 2023 23:36:03 GMT
Kevin McStay should have got the Mayo job years ago. No BS and a wily fox and proven manager and leader of men. Great credit to Mayo and fully deserving winners today. True. He did ok in Roscommon when he was manager there Just Ok but didn't have resources to do much better with Roscommon. For one the strength and conditioning was way off to where it needed to be and Roscommon so short of cash that McStay had pay for hotel rooms himself and AIB documentary was done to pay for other expenses. At Mayo he's been allowed to have the best possible management (money is no issue) including your own Donie Buckley part of his management, they'll be no team left in the championship that will have Mayo's current fitness and conditioning levels and they'll win by a bit to spare against any team that defends poorly against them as was the case with Kerry today.
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Post by themanfromthewest on May 20, 2023 23:51:20 GMT
Not disagreeing with you, problem is what the alternative? Dropping both and bring in A Spillane & maybe Barry Dan, or else scour the county for a midfielder, there is surely better than Jack Barry out there. I think Mayo’s midfield is better than ours regardless of what combination is used. We dont have a standout midfielder like Ruane unfortunately I think it’s a case of looking at what can be changed, playing Spillane as a third midfielder etc rather than bringing in an untested wildcard
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Post by ciarraigodeo on May 20, 2023 23:55:37 GMT
The biggest issue today was that we didn’t play a third midfielder in Spillane or Barry Dan and we were outnumbered there as a result. This. We needed a third midfielder today. Adrian Spillane or Barry Dan, or at the very least put Adrian in at wing forward. That is where the game was lost Completely agree more with this. When the * hit the fan so immediately and obviously at MF, I dunno why Adrian wasn’t brought on to even try to steady the ship.
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Post by colinsworth1 on May 21, 2023 2:00:39 GMT
First post in a while Mini crisis brewing in Kerry Why’its a surprise what happened today is hard to fathom Mayo have been absolutely brilliant all league Roscommon outworked them and caught them in Connaught Right now it’s looking very much like mayo v Dublin Final Galway closing too Our own issues are well know Jack is fully locked in to Jack and Diarmuid at Midfield no matter how good other play there he’s locked in to those two He’s manager and that his call agree or disagree I ve being railing against these two for years No where near good enough for this level Call a spade a spade Sean o Shea also not up to the level at present I know it’s close on sacrilegious to say that but look at what’s going on We’re getting nothing out of those three Paidi under pressure too Jack dosent do much change apparently if that’s the case then Don’t be getting your hopes too high this year anyhow
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Post by piskin on May 21, 2023 3:00:22 GMT
Good post colinsworth1...I was alarmed at the start of the League but now after this it is at crisis point as no improvements have been made by the management.Jack was on about being more pragmatic last year regarding how we play but he has to be ruthless this year with the players.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 774
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Post by mike70 on May 21, 2023 6:39:48 GMT
I had concerns going into this game, mostly because Mayo have put together a very good squad as we saw in the league, a squad built on pace, I had said it be close and that one DC might get us over the line, he came close, but the supporting cast did not play their part. I think we need to have a bit of respect for mayo, great performance, concerning that not clinical enough for the early goal chances, but look at the subs they brought in, all game changers.
Back to kerry, lot of criticism about our MF and rightly so, but they also had little support around them, Mayo were sharper today and over powered us in most positions today.
The reality is our bench is not going to have a major impact as it stands, the starting 15 will remain unchanged for the most part, bar 2 or 3 places, this might give us a better balance and better impact off the bench.
Individual player form needs to improve as well, standards set by some of our players are not being achieved, but Mayo can take a lot of credit for that today, dominating most sectors, so even with the mercurial DC, we need more from others.
All is not lost, on to PUC we go., with big improvement required, if cork beat Louth, then a free shot at kerry.
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Post by kerrysouth on May 21, 2023 6:55:44 GMT
Jack is back in familiar territory of trying to pick up the team after a poor display and result.The job is made all the harder as the team has not evolved in the last 12 months ,the Morley sweeper tactic has been long figured out ,our functional midfield and our lack of pace all over the pitch and especially in the forwards means we are not creating the overlaps and easy goal chances that teams with pace like Mayo are creating .Unfortunately our new corner back who has been championed ion this forum by many over the past 2 years was as expected here badly exposed yesterday and the reality is that the other corner back while Brillant going forward is an average man marker.But the reality is Jack did a Brillant job in getting this David Clifford inspired team over the line last year and in reality if David was playing with Mayo yesterday they would have won by at least 10 points and be certainties for the all Ireland .Gut feeling Kerry will still bounce back and go very close yet but very hard to see them winnng the all Ireland but expect a lot of twists and turns on route as we navigate our maiden voyage in this new format.
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Post by kerrylad38 on May 21, 2023 7:16:09 GMT
I feel we must throw in cillian Burke and maybe Sean o brien in midfield and breed them into it for the next two games they can’t be any worse than yesterday. David And Paudies Cousin Paul O Shea Is Playing Great Stuff For Kilcummin He Often Played midfield at Underage for Kerry offering great attacking play from midfield which we so desperately need. Sean o brien from Beaufort is a great fielder off the ball. In 2018 Fitzmaurice threw in young guns such as white Clifford seanie etc I think it’s time to do the same now cause there is absolutely no hope we will get past quarter final with our current midfield.
All the top counties have a top class midfielder or two which we don’t have Derry-Conor glass Dublin Brian Fenton And Brian Howard Armagh Jarly Og Burns . Mayo Ruane And Diarmuid O Connor Galway Mcdaid and conroy.
Sorry to say but Jack Barry along with Dylan Casey Tony Brosnan and Dara Moynihan are just good county championship Players At Best And Are Not Up To Inter County Standard.
Diarmuid O Connor Might Do A Job At Half Forward But Is Not A Midfielder As Seen Before yesterday.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 509
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Post by pillar on May 21, 2023 7:32:37 GMT
The only thing I'd say about Mayo is that they are the masters of the false dawns. Numerous times they had what looks like defining victories only to flop soon after. Also the reactions on here after a defeat. Were not perfect but questioning players who have a couple of All Stars under the belt , proven performers, is over the top. I'm sure management will be sitting down looking at what went wrong. I do think there is a wider problem in the County with the standard of player in certain positions.
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Post by mack21 on May 21, 2023 7:58:55 GMT
Paidi was right. So called supporters leaving early and now slating the team on this forum. A few points..1. Paudie Clifford wasn't shut down.. 2. A whisker to the left or right and David had 2 goals and we were on for a draw at least. 3. Mayo had a long lay off and were waiting in the long grass...Kerry's 2 week break notoriously difficult to negotiate and what the Clifford boys went through in the interim must be factored into the equation. Shades of 2006 here..We will have a big say in this championship yet. (By the way ..keep Aidan O Shea's awards on hold..The childish way he was mouthing and pawing at his marker after kicking 2 points early in the game shows there's a bit of growing up needed still). A final note..Balls going over the net behind the goals should be kicked back to the field..It' s very sad to see young supporters running away with size 5 O Neills..Wearing kerry tops and hiding balls with KY marked on them. Some of Our supporters should look in the mirror.. We are getting a wee bit entitled..
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Post by southward on May 21, 2023 8:56:55 GMT
Not that it matters but did anyone else think Mayo's last point of the first half was wide? Looked that way to me anyway (terrace, around the Lewis Road side 45 line).
O'Shea still at the handoff to the face stuff. Good to see him pinged for it yesterday, getting away with it for years. Probably should have been carded as well mind. Have to say he had a good game though.
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Post by hurlingman on May 21, 2023 9:17:43 GMT
Up there with the Super 8s game against Galway in 2018 as one of the poorest Kerry displays in recent times. Match ups in defence all wrong. Midfield still a problem. As others have said. At this stage Jack Barry isn't going to improve any more and I just see what he can offer. DOC the same. He just doesn't seem to want to be involved when the pressure is on. Barry Dan should have been on at have time. Spillane again did well when he came on. Next day out the two of them should be starting. In the forwards. I would worry about Paudie Clifford. Teams seem to have figured him out and can easily takr him out of games. SOS bar frees imo doesn't offer enough and it's been the case for a while now. Inside I think it's time to accept Tony Brosnan can't deliver when the pressure is on. As for the subs took far too long to make changes and bar Spillane imo none of them worked out too well. After the Tyrone debacle in 2021 I didn't think we'd see Jack Barry back in midfield again but it speaks really to the paucity of options coming through in our midfield sector. Nobody at underage level is sticking there hand up as a midfield general in waiting at the moment either. Sliding doors and all that but if wishes could come through of course we'd all love Mark O'Connor back and could you imagine him paired with say a Gavin O'Brien (men who got away). Bar a few games against Dublin Jack Barry has never pushed on. He was able to take a back seat with Moran there the last few years. But similar to Shamus Scanlon when Darragh retired he just doesn't seem to be able to be the main man at midfield. As I've said DOC is the same and at this stage it's hard to see him improving much more as he's been around the panel since 2019 now.
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Post by greengold35 on May 21, 2023 9:23:00 GMT
I think we might have to think outside the box or do something unexpected to solve our middle third woes. I don't know if the answer is in our current squad or there at all. We can't press the opposition kickout as we can't trust our midfield / half lines to win clean ball or the breaks. When we let mayo have the short kick out we didnt seem to have the legs to stay with the runners. I don't agree with those saying Paudie is too easily taken out of the game. DM and SOS are contributing nothing in the half forward line. I think it's more the case that the hf line is dysfunctional and he's getting lost in it. He still shows for a pile of ball and carries it well. I think we see the value of David Moran to this team now. He controlled the skies in the middle so when we did a full press hitting long was 50/50 at best. His kick passing was able to go over our half forward line direct to the full forward line. BOB has to come back in. Even though he has hardly no football played, I think Steven O'Brien might have to come back in. Even though it's a retrograde step in terms of team development; needs must. Dylan Casey on AOS today was madness. The only thing worse was leaving him on him. Teams have figured out Tadhg Morely. So what do we do now? If he doesn't play as sweeper is he a stopper centre back? Fully agree on Briain and O'Brien - they were outstanding last year and we need them now - get some football into them and get them up to speed. We need to introduce the Spillanes too - Adrian will give more in the half forward line and Killian, in my opinion, offers much more than Brosnan ; Ruairi Murphy did not look out of place when introduced - seems to have the pace for this level. I am not sure where best to play Seanie - he is lacking pace in the half forward line, maybe full forward but does he get in ahead of Clifford, Spilland and Geaney? We have been schooled yesterday and lets hope Jack & Co can take corrective action.
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Post by Kingdomson on May 21, 2023 9:28:16 GMT
I said last year the 2022 All Ireland win had to be cherished and appreciated as one off in it's own right. Being realistic and not negative Kerry won’t be winning them with the frequency of old for many reasons and the level of competition is fierce. Moreover, the win last year was really the culmination of a 4-year project at senior level. I’d like to think David Clifford will get a couple of more celtic crosses before he hangs up his spurs but there are no certainties.
One thing is for sure Kerry will remain competitive as long as David Clifford roams the grass but we can only hope more players come through to share the burden. To win more this panel needs more internal competition and an injection of some new players and especially an alpha male leader in midfield but they don’t grow on trees.
Reflecting on yesterday, I’m glad it was Mayo playing great football who beat us and not Cork and God forbid if the Dubs were the team to storm our citadel and take a proud record of us they’ve done enough damage already.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 774
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Post by mike70 on May 21, 2023 9:38:02 GMT
It’s like the Wild West here the last 12 hours, can people not give mayo credit for a top class performance, and yes we have a number of under performers at the moment, we need to make a few changes for sure, but the best players available are in the panel. Eaten bread is soon forgotten, we bridged the gap to 2014 with this crew last year, some are miss firing, we have games to get it right, but there is no doubt teams have caught up to us, but thanks be for a certain DC.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 21, 2023 9:44:39 GMT
Bitterly disappointing but if we look at the year as a whole yesterday's performance was coming.
It's an immense credit to the two Clifford's that they played as well as they did yesterday given the very difficult weeks they have endured.
I can't add anything that's not already been said my only real gripe is Mayo overran our HF and MF in Castlebar and yet we didn't recognise that and address it.
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,695
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Post by Jo90 on May 21, 2023 9:54:20 GMT
Paidi was right. So called supporters leaving early and now slating the team on this forum. A few points..1. Paudie Clifford wasn't shut down.. 2. A whisker to the left or right and David had 2 goals and we were on for a draw at least. 3. Mayo had a long lay off and were waiting in the long grass...Kerry's 2 week break notoriously difficult to negotiate and what the Clifford boys went through in the interim must be factored into the equation. Shades of 2006 here..We will have a big say in this championship yet. (By the way ..keep Aidan O Shea's awards on hold..The childish way he was mouthing and pawing at his marker after kicking 2 points early in the game shows there's a bit of growing up needed still). A final note..Balls going over the net behind the goals should be kicked back to the field..It' s very sad to see young supporters running away with size 5 O Neills..Wearing kerry tops and hiding balls with KY marked on them. Some of Our supporters should look in the mirror.. We are getting a wee bit entitled.. Yeah, encountered a lot of animals after the match giving huge disrespect to our All-Ireland champions. Dylan Casey is a very good back with a big future ahead of him, yesterday was just the wrong match up for him at the wrong time. The biggest worry was the concession of 1-19, and Mayo should have been another 2 or 3 goals and a couple of easy 45s missed. It looked so easy for Mayo, just run at Kerry, 2 defenders move over, and a Mayo player sprints late in support unchecked for a straight forward point. Aidan O'Shea mouthing all day at his marker. Strange to see someone so mouthy and cocky with 0 All-Ireland medals and 0-0 scored in 8 All-Ireland finals.
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Post by ciarrai74 on May 21, 2023 10:13:23 GMT
What did we think of Aidan O'Shea challenge on Paudi Clifford from the throw in. I thought very lucky to escape a card. A tackle like that in Rugby Union would be automatic RED Card.
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Post by hurlingman on May 21, 2023 10:15:25 GMT
Paidi was right. So called supporters leaving early and now slating the team on this forum. A few points..1. Paudie Clifford wasn't shut down.. 2. A whisker to the left or right and David had 2 goals and we were on for a draw at least. 3. Mayo had a long lay off and were waiting in the long grass...Kerry's 2 week break notoriously difficult to negotiate and what the Clifford boys went through in the interim must be factored into the equation. Shades of 2006 here..We will have a big say in this championship yet. (By the way ..keep Aidan O Shea's awards on hold..The childish way he was mouthing and pawing at his marker after kicking 2 points early in the game shows there's a bit of growing up needed still). A final note..Balls going over the net behind the goals should be kicked back to the field..It' s very sad to see young supporters running away with size 5 O Neills..Wearing kerry tops and hiding balls with KY marked on them. Some of Our supporters should look in the mirror.. We are getting a wee bit entitled.. Yeah, encountered a lot of animals after the match giving huge disrespect to our All-Ireland champions. Dylan Casey is a very good back with a big future ahead of him, yesterday was just the wrong match up for him at the wrong time. The biggest worry was the concession of 1-19, and Mayo should have been another 2 or 3 goals and a couple of easy 45s missed. It looked so easy for Mayo, just run at Kerry, 2 defenders move over, and a Mayo player sprints late in support unchecked for a straight forward point. Aidan O'Shea mouthing all day at his marker. Strange to see someone so mouthy and cocky with 0 All-Ireland medals and 0-0 scored in 8 All-Ireland finals. Re Aidan O'Shea. I can never understand where this ego he has comes from considering he rarely ever shows up when it matters and Mayo have won games after he's taken off they otherwise looked like losing when he was on. With fans and criticism. Imo fans put a lot of time and effort into following Kerry and should be entitled to comment on poor displays etc What fellas have done in the past isn't relevant to what happened yesterday. No one wants to criticise players as they can only do their best but thst doesn't mean they can't be criticism either.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 774
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Post by mike70 on May 21, 2023 10:22:04 GMT
What did we think of Aidan O'Shea challenge on Paudi Clifford from the throw in. I thought very lucky to escape a card. A tackle like that in Rugby Union would be automatic RED Card. 100% an accidental collision, if it was rugby, Paudie would have been taken of for a HIA.
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Post by The16thMan on May 21, 2023 10:23:59 GMT
Here are the stats from yesterday's game, read into them as you wish
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 774
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Post by mike70 on May 21, 2023 10:25:03 GMT
Lads stop jumping on the Aidan O Shea bandwagon, he gave a motm performance yesterday, people’s constant opinion on him based on no facts what so ever, is pretty childish, I have seen him many times and cannot support some of the comments on him.
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Post by oldschool on May 21, 2023 10:28:58 GMT
It seems goalscoring is an issue currently. David Clifford is top class no doubt but how would you compare to Colm Cooper whose goalscoring prowess sadly missing in current Kerry set up. I admire point scoring highly but always love a team that can score goals similar to Rugby and tries. If you were to compare the 2 players Cooper v Clifford who would you choose of they too different. Thanks 🙏 Colm Cooper all day long.🏐🏐🏐. He had the sidestep, the dummy, the accuracy and the vision. Thats not taking from David Clifford in an way. He’s a class act too.
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