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Post by royalkerryfan on May 22, 2023 13:16:57 GMT
Hello all long time viewer first time posting my thoughts after Saturday are we are carrying a few players that need to be rotated other teams have sussed out our defensive system and just push up on Morley to negate him I would try Mike breen at 6 and begley at 5 a Spillane and d o Connor midfield with s o Brien and Ronan Buckley coming in for Brosnan and Moynihan hopefully jack will change it up Completely agree..
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on May 22, 2023 13:38:30 GMT
Tom O’Sullivan is a top class marker and we need to keep him at corner back. Often even top class markers really struggle on a certain player and it seems Ryan O’Donoghue is that player for Tom. True. His marking job on McCurry in 2021 was sublime. McCurry went on to destroy Mayo in the final and win MOTM. We need that Tom back. Other people mentioning rotating defense personal, but a ton of work went into the Foley-Morley axis as the foundation of the defense, in particular as a means of combating goals (or goal chances) as a reaction to Tyrone's goals in 21. It's failing in two regards - Kerry are conceding goals (and goal chances) plus in the desire not to cough up goals it’s giving up a lot more points and space in the half-backline than we should. I'm not sure if that tactic can be changed in a few weeks, but something has to change defensively. 17 points scored is OK. It wins those games v Dublin and Galway in 2022.
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Post by kerryboyo on May 22, 2023 13:44:18 GMT
With Tom man marking he needs to stay back more often he is only burning himself out going up and down if he stays back he’ll be fully focused on his man and what’ll come with that will the other teams won’t score as much as well it’s great him going forward but early on especially he should stay at home keep his man quiet bring his man’s confidence down and then bomb on he’s giving the forwards the chance to get a edge on him as he is fatiguing his defence abilities by bombing on
I do think morely has been shown up a bit recently as a previous poster has said and think we should move him from 6 and he struggles to mark when he’s forced to mark at 6
It’ll be interesting to see what JOC does
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Post by macdanger on May 22, 2023 13:54:06 GMT
Well lads, it was a long trip down to Killarney on Saturday but the journey back was made that bit shorter after winning - would have loved to stay around for a few pints but I had the kids with me. Killarney is a nice spot for a game and although we were well outnumbered by Kerry supporters, everyone we met was dead sound.
When I heard the 3 changes being annouced on the way in, I wasn't hopeful at all as I felt missing Durcan in particular would weaken us but it didn't turn out that way and it meant that we had some cracking subs to bring in - Durcan, Conroy, McLaughlin, Coen & Hession. I mentioned before the game that David Moran might be a big loss to Kerry and so it turned out, it felt like we dominated there, Carney (11) in particular in the 1st half - that said, GAA statsman on twitter has Kerry winning 23/26 kickouts vs 21/25 for Mayo and Mayo only marginally ahead on turnovers (17 vs 15). At the game, it felt like we completely dominated there for long stretches.
From our point of view, the fluffed goal chances are a worry; in another game, we might only get one of those chances and we need to put it away. Equally, our keeper made a couple of good saves which he might not make every day. While it's great to come away from Killarney with a win, Kerry played an open style of football that suits us - where we struggle is when a team sets up very defensively against us and we're unable to break them down. I expect Kerry to learn from this match and I'd say ye'll be there or there abouts come the end of July.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on May 22, 2023 17:33:55 GMT
The writing has been on the wall all year, we looked dead on our feet in nearly every game, with the exception of the Clare game and we can see where their form line lies right now. We have not really added to the panel this year, especially where it is needed, the middle eight. I felt very sorry for Casey on Saturday, left hung out to dry and scapegoated by players further up the field who weren’t able/interested in working back. Mayo were smart, aggressive and full of energy, all over the field we played second fiddle, save for the amazing David Clifford. We seemed devoid of ideas, let them trample all over us on our home field.
I was chatting with a few friends today, not Kerry folk and they were convinced that this is part of a bigger plan for Kerry and once they hit the knockout stages they will unleash the beast. It’s hard to see that happening, we look plain ordinary when we don’t play with a bit of fury and urgency. Last year, we were a team on a mission, this year we are a team that appears to have lost its sense of purpose. Hopefully, the sight of the Cork jersey will help provide that sense of purpose and urgency. A few changes need to be made, having the same starting 15 smacks of players being in their comfort zone or a severe lack of panel depth. I still think that Adrian Spillane, Briain Ó Beaglaoich. Killian Spillane (if recovered) added into the starting 15 would certainly shake things up a little. It is probably too early to be rushing to judgement, however, all evidence so far isn’t promising. All we can do is hope for better.
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Post by piskin on May 22, 2023 17:48:55 GMT
The match up with Dylan Casey & A o Shea was baffling, it set the tone for Mayo early on, no fault to Casey as he did his best but he didn't have the height. Dara Moynihan is a liability because he is losing the ball far too much and it is proving costly against a team of runners. Had hoped Brosnan would finally come good but it is not happening. Jack stuck with the old on saturday and must surely now see what is not working. Good to see Geaney regain his old spark in the 2 nd half but we need that more consistantly from him. Barry Dan & Spillane midfield with D o Connor half forward. Tom O Sullivan I am worried about as he doesn't look too confident out there, as did other players. S o Shea needs to be put under pressure for his place in the team,too slow,lack of mobility and is out of the game for long periods. I would even drop him for the Cork game tbh. P Murphy in the full back line would be suicide, he simply cannot defend. I honestly think Jack is at a loss with this current crop of players this year as individual performances even throughout the League have been weak. Barry Dan & to a lesser extent Donal Down were the best of the lot.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on May 22, 2023 22:04:37 GMT
In the 4 years from 2015 to 2019 Kerry discovered 12 new starters.
In the 4 years from 2019 to 2023 Kerry have only discovered 2 new regular starters - Paudie Clifford and Graham O'Sullivan.
Surely some of the new guns need to given a chance to shine from the start, might need to take a temporary hit before their learning curve takes them ahead of the current occupants of the jersey but if you don't keep refreshing the team with fresh talent, it gets stale. Learn from Micko's mistake.
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kot
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Post by kot on May 23, 2023 8:15:24 GMT
2 days later and the disappointment and frustration has only simmered down a small bit. A training block and time to go away and take stock after the league seems to have done no good. Still played the same slow & ponderous football. Absolutely cleaned out in Midfield and it should have been as bad, if not worse, than Castlebar in February at half time. Granted we missed a few goal chances of our in the 2nd half but a 5 point defeat still flattered us. There was no structure or plan at all it seemed and thats on management. There is a theory in the premier league that surprise packages get figured out the following season unless they change & adapt. Well, the same could be true for Kerry - they came with something different last year and are now flogging the same players and teams are figuring out how to pull their defensive structure apart. You add that to the only tactic we have going forward which is to go in a an arch from corner flag to corner flag via the 45 and its no wonder a decent Mayo side with a bit of structure did a number on us. Even in '06 & '09 when we picked ourselves up from a bad place to win the All Ireland they had won the league beforehand to fall back on. We have 2 nothing victories against Clare & Tipp to fall back on this year so hope is waning when you look beyond the knock out stage. I hope I'm wrong. That's not all on the 2 Na Gaeil lads. There was a few occasions where we did well around the middle to break the ball but inevitably the breaks were won by Mayo lads. No it wasnt all on them. It was a systems failure all around as I said. Didnt win any breaks in our halfs line but the 2 lads were also cleaned out.
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Post by glengael on May 23, 2023 10:37:45 GMT
Not that it matters but did anyone else think Mayo's last point of the first half was wide? Looked that way to me anyway (terrace, around the Lewis Road side 45 line). O'Shea still at the handoff to the face stuff. Good to see him pinged for it yesterday, getting away with it for years. Probably should have been carded as well mind. Have to say he had a good game though. It certainly looked wide to me To balance that, Aidan O'Shea had an effort called wide in the second half which I thought was over (for obvious reasons I was glad it wasn't given but umpires looked uncertain at first). He & others protested about it but in vain. I was in terrace on St Finian's side and it looked good to me.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on May 23, 2023 10:56:03 GMT
I think Jack alluded to it in his post match comments. We got our tactics wrong and paid a price for it. I think Jack and co were banking on our pair to break more or less even in the middle and the mayo would bring out O'Shea giving Kerry the +1 in Tadhg Morley.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on May 23, 2023 12:27:06 GMT
Ya, decided to wait until today to voice my opinions or concerns regarding Saturday, I’ve fallen foul in the past to post when emotions are high and look back a day later after seeing the bigger picture and cringe. Anyway, we all agree, that Saturday we were well lacking, there was an obvious lack of intensity and cohesion in our play, maybe the hype and back story of the Clare game tainted the landscape, hard to tell.
What was telling is that a tight, unified cohesive defensive unit, that was our foundation in the winning of Sam in 2022 is not there at present, I can’t pinpoint is it complacency, lack of hunger, no new bodies or the fact that teams have studied our set up and we haven’t evolved with the times, but we coughed six or seven goal chances last week, Ryan saved four and the rest were ;pointed. This area requires serious addressing.
But in saying all this, our defence got no protection from our half forward or midfield units, Mayo had three or four kickout plans, one of these was where their midfielders broke wide and the ball was went seventy yard down the middle into Kerry territory, as we had a high press, this nullified our press and bypassed up to ten or eleven of our players, with Tadgh rushing back to the D. Mayo had runners against a backpeddling defence, the majority of goal chances came from here. Exposing the hight difference of our wing forwards allowed this issue to materialise - this for me was the primary issue that needs addressing.
Similarly, at certain stages of the game we allowed Mayo possession from the kick out, I cannot fathom this ploy, I would be pushing up zonally or going man to man and squeeze for all restarts.
Our kick passing and turnover stats against must read for very dim reading today, time and time again, our sharpness wasn’t there.
In hindsight, I am not too despondent, Kerry’s trajectory is set out, half peeking for Saturday and reducing for Cork and Louth is hard to negotiate. Jack also wasn’t too bothered at the final whistle, truth is all this means is another game, a home preliminary quarter once we win in Cork and against Louth, and a bit of fine tuning.
Jack admitted they got it wrong on the line, this also surprised me as he for one, is very tight lipped, similarly, the subs and choice of personnel didn’t chase the game for us more stabilised.
Still, only three of four performed and we were only a few kicks away… work to do yes, but not the end of the world. There won’t be huge changes for Cork, I know who I’d like to see selected but Jack isn’t one for wholesale changes, maybe two changes max… more than lightly at opposite eve of the field. But that for the Cork thread.
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exiled
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Post by exiled on May 23, 2023 14:06:16 GMT
McStay obviously didn't rate our midfield very highly as they kept AOS in near the goals for most of the game. Normally he drifts to midfield a lot.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on May 23, 2023 14:54:37 GMT
Saw an interesting stat the other day In 2021 Kerry scored an average of 27 points and conceded 15. In 2022 the average was 20 points scored and 14 conceded. The perception that our defence tightened up can be seen in the goals conceded column in 2022. But it wasn't to any great gain, 1 point per game. The scoring rate dropped tho by 7 points to 20. The All Ireland semi final vs Tyrone in 2021 was a 90 minute game, including extra time. We conceded 3-14 , and played a lot of the game without David Clifford and Moran injured. We conceded 1-19 in 70 minutes last Saturday. And we'd have struggled badly without DCs input.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on May 26, 2023 8:44:40 GMT
insightful paragraph from an artical I've read.
Why did Kerry change up?
At half-time last weekend, Jack O’Connor made a move that prompted some grumbling from the terraces in Killarney. Kerry conceded the Mayo kickout, dropping back to the 45-metre line and allowed Colm Reape to tap the ball to one of his full-back line. Why?
The raw numbers are revealing. In total, Mayo had 21 restarts. 11 went short, 10 were long. From 10 long kickouts, they scored 1-6. From 11 short kickouts, they scored 0-3. Kerry mustered one single point from Reape’s restarts in the entire tie.
The Kerry football tradition looms large over the sport and their supporters understandably expect them to honour it. At the same time, O’Connor has some excellent coaches and analysts in his backroom team who would have realised they were generating very little from Mayo’s kickout and increasingly exposed when Reape went long. Forcing them to go short and run the ball through every line was a shrewd decision in that context.
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Post by kerryman99 on May 26, 2023 19:06:07 GMT
6 days later and still I cant believe how bad we last weekend. A few of the players referenced the hiding we got off them in league, so the lack of bite from Kerry is very hard to fathom. A game at home and we get spanked around without laying glove. I understand Mayo played challenge games against Kildare and Tyrone in the last few weeks and there was skin flying. Were we playing A v B games with not much intensity? With the first year of the championship format its hard to know what way to approach things but perhaps a lesson learned for next year.
I would say major soul searching being done. Everything will be looked at, training during the week, selection, tactics, subs.
Seanie O'Shea looks a bit off it, there was on instance in the 2nd half sprinting back and looked like he was running through treacle. Move to FF line maybe? A Spillane will surely come in, his physicality and his ability to scrap for ball was missing the last day.
During the league the management gave Brosnan loads of minutes - he didnt last long in our first big game. I wonder will they be rethinking if he is a starter?
Whats the story with Brian O'B? If he is to play a meaningful part he would want to be getting minutes soonish.
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Post by greengold35 on May 26, 2023 20:03:54 GMT
6 days later and still I cant believe how bad we last weekend. A few of the players referenced the hiding we got off them in league, so the lack of bite from Kerry is very hard to fathom. A game at home and we get spanked around without laying glove. I understand Mayo played challenge games against Kildare and Tyrone in the last few weeks and there was skin flying. Were we playing A v B games with not much intensity? With the first year of the championship format its hard to know what way to approach things but perhaps a lesson learned for next year. I would say major soul searching being done. Everything will be looked at, training during the week, selection, tactics, subs. Seanie O'Shea looks a bit off it, there was on instance in the 2nd half sprinting back and looked like he was running through treacle. Move to FF line maybe? A Spillane will surely come in, his physicality and his ability to scrap for ball was missing the last day. During the league the management gave Brosnan loads of minutes - he didnt last long in our first big game. I wonder will they be rethinking if he is a starter? Whats the story with Brian O'B? If he is to play a meaningful part he would want to be getting minutes soonish. I understand that Mayo played both Armagh & Kildare in challenge games & lost both!! The latter game was vs Kildare & contained 12/13 of last Sat’s starting 15 - hard to figure then their form vs Kerry & Kildare’s display vs Sligo. I wonder did we get it wrong in not playing a game the week after the Clare game? The Clare game taught us nothing & probably gave us a false sense of where we are - A vs B games can often be of little value. Jack has assembled a good team around him & this week will have seen a lot of soul searching- the video analysis will have made uncomfortable viewing for Jack & Co as well as some players. We made some strange decisions on Sat - who would have predicted that our two corner backs in the 2nd half would be Paul Murphy & Gavin White? The late introduction of Briain O’B was baffling too - maybe he needs more game time but he is needed now. We must introduce Adrian Spillane , possibly midfield & I hope Killian too Will have recovered from his knock - his omission during the league with Tony B starting makes no sense to me. Seanie does not seem to have recovered fully from his toe operation & if unfit cannot be picked - a lot of food for thought but I have faith that we can turn things around with a few tweaks & some fresh faces. Team to play Cork: Shane Graham Jason Tom Briain Mike Breen Gavin Diarmuid Adrian Stephen Paudie Ruairi Killian David Paul
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Post by sullyschoice on May 26, 2023 21:10:41 GMT
I wouldn't be dropping Morley
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on May 26, 2023 23:05:00 GMT
I wouldn't be dropping Morley Being honest, of all the defenders he is the rock or pillar of the wall, if the pillar is displaced, the wall crumbles.
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dubaigaa2022
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Get rid of the forward mark!!!
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Post by dubaigaa2022 on May 26, 2023 23:14:17 GMT
McStay obviously didn't rate our midfield very highly as they kept AOS in near the goals for most of the game. Normally he drifts to midfield a lot.
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dubaigaa2022
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Get rid of the forward mark!!!
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Post by dubaigaa2022 on May 26, 2023 23:16:33 GMT
Does anyone in Kerry feel that this midfield pairing is good enough to win the AI? and its only going to get tougher!! An off day in general BUT MF is an area of concern for a while and nothing we saw on Saturday will calm the nerves
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dubaigaa2022
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Get rid of the forward mark!!!
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Post by dubaigaa2022 on May 26, 2023 23:22:35 GMT
The Kerry /Mayo game can bé watched ón youtube agaín if anyone fancies it. On 2nd viewing I feel sorry for Dylan Casey. He was nt as bad as people think. Aos got one very very soft free off him and he was close to him all the time. Dylan was unlucky.Foley had a tough time but battled hard. Tom Sull was very poor defensively again but good going forward. The half back line were pulled around alot but alot of our woes stemmed from midfield and half forward line. Paudie battled hard tbf. Moynihan got one great point but not great after that. Seanie very quiet. Tony B was very quiet. David was on fire and outstanding proving he the best player in the country altho he did lose one ball in first half. Paul Geaney scored 3 great points but also Ó Hora got in for a point in 1st half off him and he lost a ball near end of game too. However Paul can bé Happy with his lot. Only David Paul and Paudie can be satisfied in the forwards. Also while we did improve in 2nd half only for David and Shane we might have got our biggest beating ever in Fitzgerald stadium. Tom Sull has got to defend first and score after - ruined the last day - nearly as bad as the AI - but we won that day so all was forgiven - definitely worse that Dylan C - Seanie did look unfit and Tony B probably heading to the impact sub category - lets all say a few prayers that nothing happens the Clifford's or they'll be a lot of turf cut in Kilgarvan this summer!!!
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on May 27, 2023 0:27:38 GMT
Does anyone in Kerry feel that this midfield pairing is good enough to win the AI? and its only going to get tougher!! An off day in general BUT MF is an area of concern for a while and nothing we saw on Saturday will calm the nerves At present no, I mentioned a more balanced approach in an earlier post
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Post by An Ciarraíoch Taistealaíoch on May 27, 2023 13:11:14 GMT
With the first year of the championship format its hard to know what way to approach things but perhaps a lesson learned for next year. I would say major soul searching being done. Everything will be looked at, training during the week, selection, tactics, subs. Your 2 points here are somewhat contradictory but I completely agree with you. Realistically, we won't know if there is a lesson to be learnt until we finish this year's championship (hopefully finishing with DC holding Sam) and lets be honest, fans/pundits will praise the approach of the winning team (even if luck plays a major part in their victory!) You are 100% right about the soul searching: Whatever about the timing/prep for the 1st group game being difficult to gauge, most players were chasing shadows without enthusiasm and very few can hold their heads high after the day. I am hopeful that it was part of a bigger plan and we will be celebrating into August!
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dubaigaa2022
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Get rid of the forward mark!!!
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Post by dubaigaa2022 on Jul 4, 2023 17:32:50 GMT
Does anyone in Kerry feel that this midfield pairing is good enough to win the AI? and its only going to get tougher!! An off day in general BUT MF is an area of concern for a while and nothing we saw on Saturday will calm the nerves At present no, I mentioned a more balanced approach in an earlier post By god - DoC & JB gave me my answer this weekend - well done boys - DoC became a man
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Jul 6, 2023 16:05:38 GMT
Read through some of the posts on this thread, seems like light years away from where we are now, very critical of individual players that were heroes last weekend!!!
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pony
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Post by pony on Jul 7, 2023 9:32:18 GMT
Read through some of the posts on this thread, seems like light years away from where we are now, very critical of individual players that were heroes last weekend!!! Yup, and these keyboard warriors are gone VERY quiet!!
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 7, 2023 10:37:21 GMT
Read through some of the posts on this thread, seems like light years away from where we are now, very critical of individual players that were heroes last weekend!!! Yup, and these keyboard warriors are gone VERY quiet!! Not sure who you are referring to but it's very rare that a player is critised here. This is a supporters forum and given our standards and our record at home it was always going to result in critisim as we were awful against Mayo. Thankfully the players and management don't worry about what we think as they know what they are doing.
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pony
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Post by pony on Jul 7, 2023 11:07:11 GMT
Yup, and these keyboard warriors are gone VERY quiet!! Not sure who you are referring to but it's very rare that a player is critised here. This is a supporters forum and given our standards and our record at home it was always going to result in critisim as we were awful against Mayo. Thankfully the players and management don't worry about what we think as they know what they are doing. There absolutely was individual players singled out, by 1 or 2 posters in particular, general criticisms are fine, as you say, supporters are entitled to give their opinion's, but there was some utter rubbish spouted on here.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 7, 2023 11:12:31 GMT
Not sure who you are referring to but it's very rare that a player is critised here. This is a supporters forum and given our standards and our record at home it was always going to result in critisim as we were awful against Mayo. Thankfully the players and management don't worry about what we think as they know what they are doing. There absolutely was individual players singled out, by 1 or 2 posters in particular, general criticisms are fine, as you say, supporters are entitled to give their opinion's, but there was some utter rubbish spouted on here. If any post over stepped the mark you should report them and have them removed. I don't recall every post on this topic however in generally individual criticism is fairly rare.
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Jul 7, 2023 14:05:02 GMT
There absolutely was individual players singled out, by 1 or 2 posters in particular, general criticisms are fine, as you say, supporters are entitled to give their opinion's, but there was some utter rubbish spouted on here. If any post over stepped the mark you should report them and have them removed. I don't recall every post on this topic however in generally individual criticism is fairly rare. Point given and also taken, 👍
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