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Post by legendz on Dec 3, 2021 19:49:09 GMT
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Post by The16thMan on Dec 3, 2021 21:46:04 GMT
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,051
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Post by horsebox77 on Dec 3, 2021 22:39:29 GMT
PúR can cater for a McGrath Cup or League games at best but Christ on a bike a Munster Championship game vs Kerry ...
When PúC was unavailable Fitzgerald Stadium was made available and the favour returned the following year, the president is set, cop on and drive on.
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Post by givehimaball on Dec 4, 2021 12:33:02 GMT
PúR can cater for a McGrath Cup or League games at best but Christ on a bike a Munster Championship game vs Kerry ... When PúC was unavailable Fitzgerald Stadium was made available and the favour returned the following year, the president is set, cop on and drive on. Holding the game in PuR as opposed to swapping the game to Kerry and then Kerry playing in Cork the following year would mean that Cork GAA would be leaving a significant amount of money on the table in terms of lost ticket sales. A loss of 3,000 ticket sales at €20 a head - that's €60k. This is a fairly conservative best-case scenario. Worst case scenario is that PuR's capacity remains at 11,400 [given the multiple issues with PuC, it's definitely not a certainty that the capacity increase will be allowed by the authorities] Definitely not beyond the bounds of possibility that a Kerry v Cork clash in PuC in 2023 might attract a crowd of over 20k, so you could easily be looking at something like a difference of 10k tickets at €20 a head which is €200k. The litany of bad decisions by Cork GAA continues.
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Post by The16thMan on Dec 4, 2021 19:43:27 GMT
PúR can cater for a McGrath Cup or League games at best but Christ on a bike a Munster Championship game vs Kerry ... When PúC was unavailable Fitzgerald Stadium was made available and the favour returned the following year, the president is set, cop on and drive on. Holding the game in PuR as opposed to swapping the game to Kerry and then Kerry playing in Cork the following year would mean that Cork GAA would be leaving a significant amount of money on the table in terms of lost ticket sales. A loss of 3,000 ticket sales at €20 a head - that's €60k. This is a fairly conservative best-case scenario. Worst case scenario is that PuR's capacity remains at 11,400 [given the multiple issues with PuC, it's definitely not a certainty that the capacity increase will be allowed by the authorities] Definitely not beyond the bounds of possibility that a Kerry v Cork clash in PuC in 2023 might attract a crowd of over 20k, so you could easily be looking at something like a difference of 10k tickets at €20 a head which is €200k. The litany of bad decisions by Cork GAA continues. I think with both Kerry and Cork having new management teams and the pandemic thrown in on top of that. That game would surely attract 25,000, double of what PuR can hold. I personally think that ground is only suitable for a qualifier game or one against the other Munster teams but definitely not for Cork vs Kerry.
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 12, 2021 15:51:49 GMT
So with regard to 2022 we can look forward to
Minor at U17 with each province deciding how to get two teams to go forward to the AI serier? U20 with straight knock out competition - run in Spring or Summer? with players in football ineligible if they play senior inter county championship but hurlers allowed. Junior - is this grade still with us or has COVID done it in. Senior with a back door and a B Championship for some?
Or is there still a possibility of a totally new championship structure for seniors?
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Post by givehimaball on Dec 12, 2021 18:42:05 GMT
So with regard to 2022 we can look forward to Minor at U17 with each province deciding how to get two teams to go forward to the AI serier? U20 with straight knock out competition - run in Spring or Summer? with players in football ineligible if they play senior inter county championship but hurlers allowed. Junior - is this grade still with us or has COVID done it in. Senior with a back door and a B Championship for some? Or is there still a possibility of a totally new championship structure for seniors? The structure for next year is standard provincials with a two tier qualifier system - non Tailteann Cup and Tailteann Cup qualifiers. I assume it will be the case that the 4 provincial losers will play the 4 team who come through the non Taileann Cup qualifier route. There earliest possibility for a new championship structure for the seniors is 2023. Don't be surprised if the committee set up to look at the structure tries to delay things as long as possible given the amount of Provincial Council reps on it. From next year the Junior competition will be a Kilkenny and New York playing the winners and runners up of the British Junior Football Championship.
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Post by thehermit on Dec 15, 2021 20:35:19 GMT
Kilkenny great DJ Carey has come out strongly against the GAA’s new split season, insisting it “doesn’t make sense” to have the All-Irelands over by late July.
Next year’s All-Ireland football final will be on July 24, a week after the hurling decider, with club activity kicking in for the rest of the year.
Five-time All-Ireland medallist Carey said that inter-county managers dictated club schedules for years, prompting a backlash from the Club Players Association who pushed hard in the opposite direction.
Speaking at Electric Ireland GAA Higher Education draws, IT Carlow hurling boss Carey said the result is a crammed inter-county season now which is “all over too quickly”.
“We promote our games by saying that the club is the basis and the backbone of everything,” said Carey. “But I’m not sure, and I mean this as a GAA fanatic. Like, whatever is going on in Galway club hurling or Dublin club hurling or Cork club hurling, that’s not of huge interest to me.
“What I mean is, I’m not tuning into it. But if Galway were playing Dublin, or Cork were playing Wexford, that’s what I’m tuning into. Or I’m at those games.
“And I think that unfortunately now we have a situation where we’re rushing the National League. We’re going straight into the Championship. It’s all over too quickly.
“We’re putting much more focus on a club season that doesn’t have the profile that the inter-county has. I don’t understand how we’re not able to combine the two.”
Nine-time All-Star Carey said inter-county managers are partly to blame.
“I just think over the last number of years, we’ve gotten to a situation where county managers have dictated where club fitted in. And that’s what has led us to where we are. I just think the All-Ireland series being over in July doesn’t make sense to me.”
Former Kilkenny senior selector and U20 boss Carey said he’d love to return the showpiece finals to their September slots.“I’m one of these people, maybe there’s not too many of us, but I just don’t understand how we have the mindset that an All-Ireland final can be over in July and the rest of the year is given over to club action.
“I like to think I’m a very good club man myself, I always have been, but we’re now rushing our main competition, we’re fitting everything into half a year.”
Carey also spoke movingly about the late Harry Byrne, a 13-year-old from his locality who died last month after being accidentally struck by a sliotar.
“There’s very little words, only ‘Life must go on’,” said Carey. “Jake, his brother, is involved with the Kilkenny development squads. Mam and Dad are very much involved. But I’m sure there’s going to be a very large void for a long time. I know my own parents lost two children at a very early age as well.
“I don’t know did they ever get over it. Life has to go on. I hope in time that they will be able to get on with it.”
I'm not sure what the general feeling on here is towards the split season, but when I was on the HG forum I was pretty against the idea and everything DJ says above makes sense to me.
I cannot understand how you can maintain and grow the appeal of a sport if you are surrendering 6 months of the year to its main (international) rivals like soccer and rugby. Those sports already dominate the media news cycles to a huge degree. And by getting rid of inter-county action in August and Sept the GAA have basically said, here's two extra months for you to monopolise the national sporting media. Worse those two months were the very two months when the GAA was the only show in town in Ireland as cross-channel soccer and the rugby were only starting up again into their seasons. For me its a total own goal.
I mean, I would never claim to be the greatest clubman - as much as I'd desperately love to see Crotta end their famine, given the choice I'd take Sam being home in Kerry everyday of the week. And while I am of course deeply interested in the club scene in Kerry, I have absolutely no interest in the likes of Cork or Dublin club football or Kilkenny or Tipp club hurling. And I'm not going to sit down and watch those games or read about them. And I doubt I'm alone in those sentiments.
The club scene does not have national appeal, the inter-county competitions do and the idea of speeding them along and getting them over by July is madness and will really damage the GAA's profile in the longterm.
I'm all for having a defined club seasons and making sure club players have a regular fixture of games and know what's ahead of them so they can plan holidays, family events etc - but surely there's a better way to do that without having to give up on inter-county games into the late summer.
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Post by veteran on Dec 15, 2021 21:23:24 GMT
The hermit, I totally agree with you. I have written about this topic here before . I am also delighted that DJ Carey has expressed his views thus. Too many retired players come out and tell us how much their club meant to them and yet when they were playing they supinely accepted the club restrictions imposed by the county manager.
Make no mistake , the intercounty games , particularly the championship games , are the crown jewels in the GAA season. The September finals were as immovable and sacrosanct as St. Patrick’s day . Now , the authorities are throwing away all the goodwill that has been generated for decades. Goodwill is not easily restored.
The local club games , by definition , have local appeal. How many people down here are very interested in the Tyrone county final? On the other hand , how many people down here would be in interested in Tyrone v Donegal? The media interest would draw similarly contrasting figures.
The way to cater for the clubs is that it should be mandatory for county managers to allow intercounty lads to play for their clubs up to two weeks prior to an intercounty game. That would benefit both club and county as it would mean more games for every body which is what all players want.
Just as in the introduction of some nonsensical rules, I often wonder if some in the GAA hierarchy have a death wish for our games. Imagine, our major games concluded , got out of the way it seems to me, before the summer gets into full swing. Utter insanity. The foolhardiness of which will become apparent before too long as soccer, rugby, hockey , you name it , grab the media interest and coverage.
More promotion of our market leader I say. Less wistful jabbering about our club games.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 15, 2021 21:33:35 GMT
Three of the games i enjoyed most in the past 15 months were the Cork hurling final of 2020 which Blackrock won and the drawn final and the replay of the Tipp hurling championship of 2021. I would prefer those any day compared to some of the inter county games in either code. The replay took sport to a level seldom seen.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Dec 15, 2021 21:51:03 GMT
I think the split season really depends on if your still playing or not.
I had this debate with a pal who is still playing while I have finished.
He thinks it's great so they can have more certainty of when games will be played.
I think as a supporter it's madness not having the Premier game available for 6 months of the year.
I can't think of another team sport that goes 6 months without a competitive game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 22:11:18 GMT
Three of the games i enjoyed most in the past 15 months were the Cork hurling final of 2020 which Blackrock won and the drawn final and the replay of the Tipp hurling championship of 2021. I would prefer those any day compared to some of the inter county games in either code. The replay took sport to a level seldom seen. I mean this with respect but as a man with more than 16,000 posts in this forum, you are probably not the typical GAA supporter. There are undoubtedly great games at club level but they will never have the mass appeal of the intercounty game and the profile of the GAA will suffer. That combined with the fact that a lot of teams impose media bans indicates the publicity for games is not a priority.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 15, 2021 22:26:14 GMT
Three of the games i enjoyed most in the past 15 months were the Cork hurling final of 2020 which Blackrock won and the drawn final and the replay of the Tipp hurling championship of 2021. I would prefer those any day compared to some of the inter county games in either code. The replay took sport to a level seldom seen. I mean this with respect but as a man with more than 16,000 posts in this forum, you are probably not the typical GAA supporter. There are undoubtedly great games at club level but they will never have the mass appeal of the intercounty game and the profile of the GAA will suffer. That combined with the fact that a lot of teams impose media bans indicates the publicity for games is not a priority. Its all about the contest for me and too often in intercounty in football games are one sided. Not so much in hurling as the top 8 play each other the whole time and the second tier do likewise. If only the football would copy the hurling structure and pit each level with against each other and then we would have more even contests.
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Post by veteran on Dec 16, 2021 10:17:59 GMT
Three of the games i enjoyed most in the past 15 months were the Cork hurling final of 2020 which Blackrock won and the drawn final and the replay of the Tipp hurling championship of 2021. I would prefer those any day compared to some of the inter county games in either code. The replay took sport to a level seldom seen. The quality of the club games to which you refer is not germane to the. topic being discussed which is the fact that senior inter county games are to be completed by the end of July. I agree that the quality of our product should be examined . Writing on this topic here previously I wrote that any self respecting company bringing a product to the market should first of all research how desirable their product is and how it could be made even more desirable . When you are convinced you have a product that will be in wide demand then you can decide what are the optimal banking, opening hours. Currently the cart is being put before the horse. No matter how good your product is you must always remember it is competing with other products, in this case soccer, rugby , hockey, non field sports etc. You are competing for public interest and therefore media coverage and therefore sponsorship. Competing with one hand tied behind your back is a competition for losers. I say that is what the GAA are doing by wrapping up their most precious jewel and storing it away before the summer has reached a climax. Forfeiting dates which were inextricably associated with the GAA for decades. Oh their opponents must be rubbing their hands with glee. The GAA has potentially two great products. There are times when I despair that these products are not being managed and prompted by administrators who are not aware of this potential. For the most part all we get is pitiful tinkering with the rules which tend to impede rather enhance our games . Change must be meaningful rather than having change for the sake of change.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 16, 2021 11:23:35 GMT
Three of the games i enjoyed most in the past 15 months were the Cork hurling final of 2020 which Blackrock won and the drawn final and the replay of the Tipp hurling championship of 2021. I would prefer those any day compared to some of the inter county games in either code. The replay took sport to a level seldom seen. The quality of the club games to which you refer is not germane to the. topic being discussed which is the fact that senior inter county games are to be completed by the end of July. I agree that the quality of our product should be examined . Writing on this topic here previously I wrote that any self respecting company bringing a product to the market should first of all research how desirable their product is and how it could be made even more desirable . When you are convinced you have a product that will be in wide demand then you can decide what are the optimal banking, opening hours. Currently the cart is being put before the horse. No matter how good your product is you must always remember it is competing with other products, in this case soccer, rugby , hockey, non field sports etc. You are competing for public interest and therefore media coverage and therefore sponsorship. Competing with one hand tied behind your back is a competition for losers. I say that is what the GAA are doing by wrapping up their most precious jewel and storing it away before the summer has reached a climax. Forfeiting dates which were inextricably associated with the GAA for decades. Oh their opponents must be rubbing their hands with glee. The GAA has potentially two great products. There are times when I despair that these products are not being managed and prompted by administrators who are not aware of this potential. For the most part all we get is pitiful tinkering with the rules which tend to impede rather enhance our games . Change must be meaningful rather than having change for the sake of change. DJ says the quality of club games in other counties does not interest him. I was offering my opinion on that.
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keane
Fanatical Member
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Post by keane on Dec 16, 2021 11:46:14 GMT
Intercounty is a sideshow.
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Post by thehermit on Dec 16, 2021 11:46:49 GMT
Mickmack I understand your point and I doubt anyone is trying to disparage club games as a spectacle. They are some cracking games full of skill, heart and endevour being played out in county championships across this island. The point myself and Veteran are making is how much appeal do they have to your average sporting consumer. Its like if the French Top 14 was on telly, sure I might have a quick gwak at Racing playing Toulouse but I'm not really invested, I'm not really pushed - I more want to see what those players do in a French jersey in the Six Nations or World Cup. Same with club v county, I'm not really going to plan my day around tuning into the Donegal or Tyrone club finals. But you better believe I and most other GAA supporters will be watching those counties playing in the first round in the Ulster championship.
Veteran puts it all very well - the success and visibility of any sport rests on its ability to push and promote its elite competition. Kids in Kerry will be inspired by what David does in the Green and Gold not what he is doing for Fossa. I wanted to play hurling because I loved Loughnane and the Clare team of the 1990s, not necessarily because of how Crotta were fairing.
As GAA people, its programmed into our brains at this stage that August/Sept is when our national games shine and dominate the back pages. Lord knows most of the year that is not the case (BTW I think a huge issue with the lack of good GAA coverage for much of the year is disrespectful attitude the GAA has to the sporting media but that's another story). The First and Third Sunday in Sept, what the hell was ever wrong with it, it sure shortened the long winter if you had an All Ireland to celebrate!
It does not sit right with me that over the last 3 years the hurling final is done and dusted by early August. Think about it, months and months without seeing the elite players do their thing on the biggest stage and its going to be even longer now come the new year.
As Veteran suggested, there could easily be rules brought in to insist county players are involved with their clubs up until 2 weeks before county action. Any well run county has their club sides playing regular action in the summer, the Leagues in Kerry being our example.
Like everything in modern life, the split-season seems to be a way of making all of us pay for the sins of the few - the fact a few counties treated their club players with disdain and had no competitions running in the summer, even when their inter-county teams had been knocked out of the All Ireland.
Like I said, I'll nail my colours to the mast. I'm not much of a club man so I'm sure people who are club people first and foremost have a very different take.
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 16, 2021 13:35:46 GMT
I think the split season really depends on if your still playing or not. I had this debate with a pal who is still playing while I have finished. He thinks it's great so they can have more certainty of when games will be played. I think as a supporter it's madness not having the Premier game available for 6 months of the year. I can't think of another team sport that goes 6 months without a competitive game. American Football runs Sept to January with games every week in season - 18 games in main season and then playoffs. Basketball and Baseball also have very defined seasons. I think Australian Rules also has a defined shortish season. The split season does not mean there is no football for 6 months - it simply means there is no intercounty grade but the club scene more than compensates for that for many fans.
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mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 774
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Post by mike70 on Dec 16, 2021 14:27:33 GMT
I think the split season really depends on if your still playing or not. I had this debate with a pal who is still playing while I have finished. He thinks it's great so they can have more certainty of when games will be played. I think as a supporter it's madness not having the Premier game available for 6 months of the year. I can't think of another team sport that goes 6 months without a competitive game. American Football runs Sept to January with games every week in season - 18 games in main season and then playoffs. Basketball and Baseball also have very defined seasons. I think Australian Rules also has a defined shortish season. The split season does not mean there is no football for 6 months - it simply means there is no intercounty grade but the club scene more than compensates for that for many fans. I presume club will continue with county leagues, with club championship taking place after the county scene.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 16, 2021 15:49:36 GMT
I wanted to play hurling because I loved Loughnane and the Clare team of the 1990s, not necessarily because of how Crotta were fairing. Did Todd Nolan not inspire you or are you too young to remember him? The change didnt happen in a vacuum....there was huge pressure from clubs. I think its a reasonably solution all things considered.
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Post by thehermit on Dec 16, 2021 16:25:52 GMT
I wanted to play hurling because I loved Loughnane and the Clare team of the 1990s, not necessarily because of how Crotta were fairing. Did Todd Nolan not inspire you or are you too young to remember him? The change didnt happen in a vacuum....there was huge pressure from clubs. I think its a reasonably solution all things considered. Too young to have seen him on the field but believe me I've heard all the stories. The Nolans are some family of hurlers to be sure.
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Post by The16thMan on Dec 18, 2021 0:39:06 GMT
POTENTIAL 2023 CHAMPIONSHIP RESTRUCTURE FORMAT
A meeting of the GAA’s Management Committee held earlier this evening considered recommendations from the Task Force established by Uachtarán CLG, Labhrás Mac Carthaigh, in relation to proposals on the potential restructure of the 2023 All-Ireland Senior Football Championships.
The Management Committee agreed that two proposals should be circulated to Counties for further consideration and discussion with a view to Ard-Chomhairle making a final decision at their meeting on January 22nd on which one, if either, proposal should be submitted to Annual Congress in February as an Ard-Chomhairle motion for change.
The proposals broadly reflect two main approaches:
Red Proposal – a Round Robin Provincial Championship in February/March, followed by a national league type championship from April – July (i.e. an improved Proposal B)
Green Proposal - Retention of the current Allianz League and Provincial championships followed by Round Robin groups in the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cups.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 18, 2021 13:24:08 GMT
POTENTIAL 2023 CHAMPIONSHIP RESTRUCTURE FORMAT A meeting of the GAA’s Management Committee held earlier this evening considered recommendations from the Task Force established by Uachtarán CLG, Labhrás Mac Carthaigh, in relation to proposals on the potential restructure of the 2023 All-Ireland Senior Football Championships. The Management Committee agreed that two proposals should be circulated to Counties for further consideration and discussion with a view to Ard-Chomhairle making a final decision at their meeting on January 22nd on which one, if either, proposal should be submitted to Annual Congress in February as an Ard-Chomhairle motion for change. The proposals broadly reflect two main approaches: Red Proposal – a Round Robin Provincial Championship in February/March, followed by a national league type championship from April – July (i.e. an improved Proposal B) Green Proposal - Retention of the current Allianz League and Provincial championships followed by Round Robin groups in the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cups. In what way is proposal b 'improved'. Is it that Kerry and Dublin will be 'qualified' by the end of march having won their provincials?
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Post by ballhopper34 on Dec 18, 2021 21:09:54 GMT
Leave the league in spring and provincials in early summer.
The provincial winners get seeded 1-4 for the championship, and the provincial losers get seeded 13-16.
Seeds 5-12 are the next best teams in the league.
Play by seedings then, top four v bottom 4 with no repeat of provincial finals, 5 v 12, 6 v 11, 7 v 10 and 8 v 9.
Continue using seedings till last 4...then open draw for semi-finals...and the draw can be made once the q'final pairings are known.
Puts bite into all league games and adds competition into the provincials as well. Provinces need to schedule multiple games per weekend...double headers in early rounds on Saturday and Sunday in Leinster maybe. Games on Saturday and Sunday in Ulster too. No bye week, except the week before the provincial final. Munster and Connacht easier to manage.
Comments?
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Post by sullyschoice on Dec 18, 2021 22:41:58 GMT
My brain hurts at this stage
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 19, 2021 10:52:05 GMT
Just do what Jim McGuinness said five years ago.
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 19, 2021 11:31:52 GMT
Just do what Jim McGuinness said five years ago. Not a bad idea but here are 10 reasons "Jim's fix it" won't be adopted. 1/ Jim went over to the dark side and coached soccer so any ideas are tainted 2/ The idea did not come from a properly constituted committee with all voting camps represented 3/ He is from a remote location that does not matter and they only have 1 All Ireland 4/ Nobody over the age of 75 (accompanied by a parent) was involved in making or tweaking the proposal 5/ The GPA were not consulted and their share explained 6/ RTE and SKY want more Super Saturday and Super Sundays to be built into any proposal 7/ Pat Spillane half supports the idea 8/ Its too bloody simple and logical 9/ Teams that have absolutely no chance of winning the competition in a month of Sundays are not given due respect 10/ Nobody (that matters) asked for his bloody opinion anyhow As has been said before trying to keep everyone happy will mean the competition will be the equivalent of a horse designed by a committee = a camel. For anyone taking offence - not intended - just the covid blues.......
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Post by john4 on Dec 28, 2021 20:08:02 GMT
Following on from the presentation to County Officials, please find below a link to a Video Presentation on the 2023 Football Championship Proposals. vimeo.com/659667573/d3254626aa
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2021 21:01:15 GMT
Following on from the presentation to County Officials, please find below a link to a Video Presentation on the 2023 Football Championship Proposals. vimeo.com/659667573/d3254626aathanks for that John.
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kodie
Junior Member
Posts: 47
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Post by kodie on Dec 30, 2021 13:28:20 GMT
Anyone know how the season in 2022 is going to run in Kerry when will club football be starting in May as rumours are saying?
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