|
Post by onlykerry on Jan 25, 2022 11:12:10 GMT
Mick - the main incentive in winning a provincial is to get one of the seeded spots in the round robin groups - otherwise you end up in a theoretically stronger group with a provincial champion heading your group. There is also the much heralded issue of momentum and competitive games being the best form of team training and development.
I would worry about the round robin being full of dead rubber/non full blooded competitive games with 12 of the teams getting through. I presume QF's will be in Croke Part but maybe giving group winners home advantage would spice this up a bit and give an incentive to win groups and thereby improve the competitive edge. Who would fancy having to go to Castlebar or Clones for a must win QF because of a poor performance in the round robin.
Moving Sigerson would be good but then it possibly clashes with the latter stages of the club championship - less impactful overall however.
Ultimately we all wanted change and change has been forthcoming - expect tweaks in year 2 or 3 of the revised format.
Some will lament that all the D1 (and most if not all D2) teams will be in the Sam Maguire but remember its a separate competition and what we want is the best teams going up against each other so I have no issue with that.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jan 25, 2022 11:33:09 GMT
I dont want to be negative as change was needed.
All i am interested in is seeing teams of equal ability going at it hell for leather with something tangible at stake.
We will get that in the league and we will get that in the QF, semi final and final of the championship.
The series of games in between in the provincial championship and the pool games may not have that edge though.
I think the Sigerson players from the Ulster counties will come under huge pressure not to play in the Sigerson as coming high in the league will paramount for Ulster counties. Negotiating the choppy waters of the Ulster championship is difficult so Ulster counties will be putting huge emphasis on the league i think.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jan 26, 2022 21:28:43 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jan 27, 2022 11:07:28 GMT
All on the line in Division Three - League placing could determine championship summer
Donnchadh Boyle
January 26 2022 02:30 AM
In the world of GAA, there’s nothing like talk of competition structures to make the eyes glaze over. Proposal A versus proposal B. Green for go and red for no. Vested interests and split seasons. Sacred cows, stand-alone championships and unintended consequences. Those discussions are fundamental to the future of the game, but it doesn’t make them any less tedious.
We’re not done with them yet, either. Not by a long shot. But amidst all the horse trading and the over and backs, the GAA has stumbled across the opportunity to test run – in part, at least – its ‘league as championship’ idea.
Because that’s what Division 3 is. League performance will have a direct impact on what a county’s championship will look like. Finish in either of the top two spots in the division, then not only are you headed for Division 2 the following year, but you are also guaranteeing yourself Sam Maguire football for the summer.
As such, they are league placings that will be most keenly contested.
In time, the Tailteann Cup may establish itself as a viable, workable ‘B’ championship. But if there’s an air of suspicion from those counties that might be affected (and the expectation is that most of this division will), then they can be forgiven. The football championship and the notion of a tiered system have never been comfortable bedfellows. The courtship will be long and difficult. The ‘B’ competition may first have to prove its value to affected counties before it is fully embraced.
So the prize on offer adds another layer on intrigue to a division that already looks cut-throat because other than making a provincial final, this is these sides’ route to secure a place in the contest for Sam Maguire. The same is true of the other end. Relegation to the basement division means a stint in the Tailteann Cup is likely.
Westmeath start as the bookmakers’ favourites to bounce straight back up, but there is little room for error. With seven games squeezed into eight weekends, a slow start or an injury could send a campaign into a tailspin.
Half the counties in the division will be looking for the ‘new-manager’ bounce and one of them, Longford’s Billy O’Loughlin, made no secret as to where his priorities lay.
“We’ve seven championship matches in Division 3 and, after that, we don’t really mind what happens” said the Laois native. “That’s what’s important to us.
“When you’re trying to entice players into a county panel, from a Division 3 or a Division 4 standpoint, they see no merit in coming in and training for six months to play in a championship that they can’t win – and Longford haven’t won since the ’60s. They’re not stupid.
“What we want to do is entice guys to play for Longford and, hopefully, in a year or two down the line, that they have a competition where we’re playing against our peers, and that there’s something to win. Hopefully it’s coming down the tracks because the Leinster championship has been defunct for years and we are placing little to no emphasis on it.
“This lopsided scenario that has been given to us – where, you know, we’ve been cannon fodder for years in the weaker counties in the Leinster championship – is, hopefully, at an end.”
If there are similar sentiments in the other camps, then skin and hair will fly from the opening weekend. Antrim, under the smart tutelage of Enda McGinley, looked like a team making rapid strides last year. Promotion from Division 4 was followed by a creditable performance for long periods against an Armagh side who now have a toehold in Division 1.
Louth were the other side to come up from the basement in what is Mickey Harte’s second season in charge, and they will feel like they left the chance to beat a rapidly-improving Offaly behind them last summer.
The numbers will never work in Fermanagh’s favour, and while they have lost the experienced Eoin Donnelly, the decision of Ultan Kelm not to switch to the AFL this year is a major lift. Several of Kieran Donnelly’s squad also have Division 2 experience.
Laois are more difficult to figure out. They didn’t win a game in five attempts last year, but their early-season form under Billy Sheehan was promising as they reached the O’Byrne Cup final, taking the scalp of Jack O’Connor’s Kildare along the way.
Limerick had been building steadily under Billy Lee and came within a win of promotion to Division 2 last year, but they have shipped a few significant losses in personnel across the close season. Brian Fanning is unavailable, as is Danny Neville, but there is hope in the championship where Limerick, Tipperary, Clare and Waterford are all on the other side of the draw from Munster’s big two of Cork and Kerry.
Wicklow are another side under new management. Colin Kelly won back-to-back promotions with Louth, and also had a stint with Westmeath. If they can summon the spirit that saw them beat Cavan to stay up last year, they have the potential to cause problems.
With all to play for and not much to choose between the teams, Division 3 is worth keeping an eye on.
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Jan 27, 2022 20:25:36 GMT
I think the reporter above does not fully understand what he is on about - he claims getting promotion from Div 3 guarantees playing for the Sam Maguire when it does not (as far as I can understand).
Any team making their provincial final irrespective of league position is guaranteed a place in the Sam Maguire competition and therefore if any team that finishes in position 17 or lower in the league can end up playing in the A Championship at the expense of the lowest ranked teams in the league.
Its highly unlikely but if all four provincial finals had one team ranked 17 or lower after the completion of that years league then the make up of the A Championship would stop at the 12th ranked league team plus the four courtesy of making their provincial finals.
This probably means we will never see seeded provincial championships as many of the supposed weaker counties will be hoping for a favourable provincial draw in the hope of making the provincial final. It could put life back into the provincials as there are two prizes at stake - silverware plus a guaranteed spot in the A Championship.
It also means that come the end of the league the bottom teams in Division 2 and the two promoted teams from D 3 will be waiting to see the outcome of the provincial championships to find out which championship they will be playing in.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jan 28, 2022 11:01:11 GMT
I think the reporter above does not fully understand what he is on about - he claims getting promotion from Div 3 guarantees playing for the Sam Maguire when it does not (as far as I can understand). Any team making their provincial final irrespective of league position is guaranteed a place in the Sam Maguire competition and therefore if any team that finishes in position 17 or lower in the league can end up playing in the A Championship at the expense of the lowest ranked teams in the league. Its highly unlikely but if all four provincial finals had one team ranked 17 or lower after the completion of that years league then the make up of the A Championship would stop at the 12th ranked league team plus the four courtesy of making their provincial finals. This probably means we will never see seeded provincial championships as many of the supposed weaker counties will be hoping for a favourable provincial draw in the hope of making the provincial final. It could put life back into the provincials as there are two prizes at stake - silverware plus a guaranteed spot in the A Championship. It also means that come the end of the league the bottom teams in Division 2 and the two promoted teams from D 3 will be waiting to see the outcome of the provincial championships to find out which championship they will be playing in. Yeah... if Galway and Mayo are on one side of the draw in Connacht, it opens the door for the Rossies to make the pool games. Likewise if Kerry and Cork are on one side of the draw in Munster, there will be skin and hair flying between Clare, Tipp and Limerick to make the provincial final in order to play in the pool games. Unless they see winning the Tailteann cup as more inviting that making the pool games for the Sam Maguire cup....
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Jan 28, 2022 16:29:51 GMT
The provincial loser spot might be tempting for some of the teams but for those in Division 4 team it could seriously be a poisioned chalice. Imagine a scenario like 2013 where London beat Sligo and New York by a point to end up in a provincial final and then took a 16 point beating from a Mayo side that weren't really firing on all guns in the provincial final.
Under the green options London would then have 3 more games against a provincial winner and 2 more top 16 teams[more than likely 2 top 12 teams]. In a worse case scenario then could being a group with Kerry and say one of Tyrone/Donegal/Monaghan and someone like Meath or Galway who qualified by finishing in the top half of the top of Division 2. In the group like this none of the other teams could afford to ease up against Leitrim as there would be a good chance that scoring difference might end up deciding the final placings in the group so they could potentially take 4 bad beatings in a row.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Jan 28, 2022 16:49:35 GMT
Unless they see winning the Tailteann cup as more inviting that making the pool games for the Sam Maguire cup.... I have seen it in a couple of articles that the winners of the the Tailteann Cup would be rewarded with entry to Sam Maguire the following year. If this was the case then there would be 9 places "reserved" in Sam Maguire - the 4 provincial winners, the 4 provincial losers and the winner of the previous years Tailteann Cup. Then the remaining 7 places would be decided in terms of league positions. I have tried searching to see if I could find a definitve version of the Green option anywhere but I couldn't find it anywhere.
|
|
|
Post by Moderator on Jan 28, 2022 21:02:56 GMT
Following on from the presentation to County Officials, please find below a link to a Video Presentation on the 2023 Football Championship Proposals. vimeo.com/659667573/d3254626aafor givehimaball...details Red and Green proposals.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Jan 29, 2022 22:06:27 GMT
Green Proposal
League as normal. Provincials as normal - but to be run off over 5 weeks. Round-robin groups of four in both Sam and Tailteann. Draws for the groups will be made once the provincial semi-finals are played.
Guarantees a minimum of 4 championship game for every county. 24 counties will have a minimum of 5 games.
From the second year, the winner of the previous year's Tailteann Cup will play in the Sam Maguire Cup.
The Sam Maguire group stages will be seeded. Seed 1 - Provincial Winners Seed 2 - Provincial Losers Seed 3 - next 4 ranked by league status Seed 4 - next 4 ranked by league status
[No mention of whether the Tailteann winner will be a 3rd seed or a 4th seed] [Also no mention of whether the two teams that get promoted from Division 2 will be ranked higher than the two teams that get relegated from Division 1 - I would assume the two promoted teams would be ranked higher (this would have implications for the seeding)]
Provincial champions will be rewarded with their first group game at home. Each team will have a home, away and neutral game in the group stages.
The 4 top teams after the group stages go straight into the quarter-finals.
The four teams finishing 2nd play will play a game against the four teams that finished 3rd in what is being called a preliminary quarter-final round. There will be a draw for this and teams from the same group will be kept apart. [Didn't make any mention of avoiding repeat fixtures from the provincials but you would hope this is there]
The 4 top teams from the group will play the winners of the preliminary quarter-final round. [Again no mention of any rule in relation to keeping teams apart if possible.] Then semi-finals and finals.
For the Tailteann Cup draw Seed 1 - top 4 ranked eligible teams at the end of the league Seed 2 - teams ranked 21-24 at the end of the league Seed 3 - teams ranked 25-28 at the end of the league Seed 4 - teams ranked 29-32 at the end of the league
Round-robin group with 3 games. Top seed gets first game at home.
After the Tailteann group stage, the 4 teams that top the groups go into the Tailteann Cup quarter-finals.
The 4 teams that finish 2nd will play 3 of the best 3rd placed teams in the groups and New York. The 3 best 3rd placed teams will be decided by points and score difference. [No mention of whether New York will be playing in the Connacht championship - I would assume not.] [Also no confirmation of whether the New York game will be played in Ireland or the US - there was a worked example that showed Antrim v New York but I don't know if that confirms things one way or the other]
Then same structure as Sam - quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals.
The next stage is that when the motions for congress are released, the actual details of everything should be clarified. Given the GPA and the Provincial Councils are on board and the county boards are likely to be happy with the increased number of games i.e. more cash, I'd be very surprised if this isn't passed at Congress.
|
|
|
Post by The16thMan on Feb 1, 2022 15:36:49 GMT
Cork game fixed for Páirc Uí Rinn for May 7th.. what a joke.. this will surely have to be changed to Killarney. The crowd that was in Killarney 10 days ago would fill Páirc Uí Rinn. Never mind the Championship game
|
|
|
Post by veteran on Feb 1, 2022 17:02:48 GMT
I have just read on the RTÉ website that the Clare /Cork hurling championship match has been switched to Thurles following agreement between the Munster Council and the two county boards. It begs the question , was our county board consulted about the football venue change and did they agree ? If they did they would need to be challenged about it. The more I reflect on this the more outraged I become, particularly if our county board acquiesced, which presumably they did.
|
|
mg72
Full Member
Posts: 140
|
Post by mg72 on Feb 1, 2022 17:14:20 GMT
Green Proposal League as normal. Provincials as normal - but to be run off over 5 weeks. Round-robin groups of four in both Sam and Tailteann. Draws for the groups will be made once the provincial semi-finals are played. Guarantees a minimum of 4 championship game for every county. 24 counties will have a minimum of 5 games. From the second year, the winner of the previous year's Tailteann Cup will play in the Sam Maguire Cup. The Sam Maguire group stages will be seeded. Seed 1 - Provincial Winners Seed 2 - Provincial Losers Seed 3 - next 4 ranked by league status Seed 4 - next 4 ranked by league status [No mention of whether the Tailteann winner will be a 3rd seed or a 4th seed] [Also no mention of whether the two teams that get promoted from Division 2 will be ranked higher than the two teams that get relegated from Division 1 - I would assume the two promoted teams would be ranked higher (this would have implications for the seeding)] Provincial champions will be rewarded with their first group game at home. Each team will have a home, away and neutral game in the group stages. The 4 top teams after the group stages go straight into the quarter-finals. The four teams finishing 2nd play will play a game against the four teams that finished 3rd in what is being called a preliminary quarter-final round. There will be a draw for this and teams from the same group will be kept apart. [Didn't make any mention of avoiding repeat fixtures from the provincials but you would hope this is there] The 4 top teams from the group will play the winners of the preliminary quarter-final round. [Again no mention of any rule in relation to keeping teams apart if possible.] Then semi-finals and finals. For the Tailteann Cup draw Seed 1 - top 4 ranked eligible teams at the end of the league Seed 2 - teams ranked 21-24 at the end of the league Seed 3 - teams ranked 25-28 at the end of the league Seed 4 - teams ranked 29-32 at the end of the league Round-robin group with 3 games. Top seed gets first game at home. After the Tailteann group stage, the 4 teams that top the groups go into the Tailteann Cup quarter-finals. The 4 teams that finish 2nd will play 3 of the best 3rd placed teams in the groups and New York. The 3 best 3rd placed teams will be decided by points and score difference. [No mention of whether New York will be playing in the Connacht championship - I would assume not.] [Also no confirmation of whether the New York game will be played in Ireland or the US - there was a worked example that showed Antrim v New York but I don't know if that confirms things one way or the other] Then same structure as Sam - quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals. The next stage is that when the motions for congress are released, the actual details of everything should be clarified. Given the GPA and the Provincial Councils are on board and the county boards are likely to be happy with the increased number of games i.e. more cash, I'd be very surprised if this isn't passed at Congress. Well explained. Thanks
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Feb 1, 2022 18:10:38 GMT
Green Proposal League as normal. Provincials as normal - but to be run off over 5 weeks. Round-robin groups of four in both Sam and Tailteann. Draws for the groups will be made once the provincial semi-finals are played. Guarantees a minimum of 4 championship game for every county. 24 counties will have a minimum of 5 games. From the second year, the winner of the previous year's Tailteann Cup will play in the Sam Maguire Cup. The Sam Maguire group stages will be seeded. Seed 1 - Provincial Winners Seed 2 - Provincial Losers Seed 3 - next 4 ranked by league status Seed 4 - next 4 ranked by league status [No mention of whether the Tailteann winner will be a 3rd seed or a 4th seed] [Also no mention of whether the two teams that get promoted from Division 2 will be ranked higher than the two teams that get relegated from Division 1 - I would assume the two promoted teams would be ranked higher (this would have implications for the seeding)] Provincial champions will be rewarded with their first group game at home. Each team will have a home, away and neutral game in the group stages. The 4 top teams after the group stages go straight into the quarter-finals. The four teams finishing 2nd play will play a game against the four teams that finished 3rd in what is being called a preliminary quarter-final round. There will be a draw for this and teams from the same group will be kept apart. [Didn't make any mention of avoiding repeat fixtures from the provincials but you would hope this is there] The 4 top teams from the group will play the winners of the preliminary quarter-final round. [Again no mention of any rule in relation to keeping teams apart if possible.] Then semi-finals and finals. For the Tailteann Cup draw Seed 1 - top 4 ranked eligible teams at the end of the league Seed 2 - teams ranked 21-24 at the end of the league Seed 3 - teams ranked 25-28 at the end of the league Seed 4 - teams ranked 29-32 at the end of the league Round-robin group with 3 games. Top seed gets first game at home. After the Tailteann group stage, the 4 teams that top the groups go into the Tailteann Cup quarter-finals. The 4 teams that finish 2nd will play 3 of the best 3rd placed teams in the groups and New York. The 3 best 3rd placed teams will be decided by points and score difference. [No mention of whether New York will be playing in the Connacht championship - I would assume not.] [Also no confirmation of whether the New York game will be played in Ireland or the US - there was a worked example that showed Antrim v New York but I don't know if that confirms things one way or the other] Then same structure as Sam - quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals. The next stage is that when the motions for congress are released, the actual details of everything should be clarified. Given the GPA and the Provincial Councils are on board and the county boards are likely to be happy with the increased number of games i.e. more cash, I'd be very surprised if this isn't passed at Congress. Thanks. The last 8 standing will emerge eventually and it will be knockout then. Can i ask whether they will continue the current system for semi final...like its Munster v Leinster this year and it was Munster v Ulster last year.
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Feb 1, 2022 20:01:55 GMT
Cork game fixed for Páirc Uí Rinn for May 7th.. what a joke.. this will surely have to be changed to Killarney. The crowd that was in Killarney 10 days ago would fill Páirc Uí Rinn. Never mind the Championship game Pairc Ui Rinn capacity is listed as 16,440 Last pre Covid crowd at a Kerry V Cork Munster Final was 18,265 in 2019 - if Cork have a poor league expect minimal interest from Cork supporters. That said it is very disappointing that Cork GAA are giving their stadium for a music event in place of a major GAA fixture - afterall it is first and foremost a sports venue and not a multi event stadium. Says a lot about the mindset of the GAA - money will come first.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Feb 1, 2022 20:17:52 GMT
Cork game fixed for Páirc Uí Rinn for May 7th.. what a joke.. this will surely have to be changed to Killarney. The crowd that was in Killarney 10 days ago would fill Páirc Uí Rinn. Never mind the Championship game Pairc Ui Rinn capacity is listed as 16,440 Last pre Covid crowd at a Kerry V Cork Munster Final was 18,265 in 2019 - if Cork have a poor league expect minimal interest from Cork supporters. That said it is very disappointing that Cork GAA are giving their stadium for a music event in place of a major GAA fixture - afterall it is first and foremost a sports venue and not a multi event stadium. Says a lot about the mindset of the GAA - money will come first. Current PuR capacity is 12k.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Feb 1, 2022 20:23:47 GMT
Thanks. The last 8 standing will emerge eventually and it will be knockout then. Can i ask whether they will continue the current system for semi final...like its Munster v Leinster this year and it was Munster v Ulster last year. Don't know. There was no indication in the video either way. You'd think it would make sense to do so but maybe the avoidance of repeat games might take priority.
|
|
|
Post by playitfair on Feb 6, 2022 19:26:52 GMT
According to the examiner, the U19 grade is a replacement for the U17 Minor grade. "As was expected, a change in the minor grade at inter-county level to U19 was proposed for Congress. If successful, it will come in for the 2023 season" I saw this a while back and meant to comment on it. I find this to be somewhat odd in that most leaving cert students are up to the age at U19. Are we going right back at the point of inter-county being too much leaving cert students? Unless of course the competition is taken out of the limelight with the Tailteann Cup. I might be jumping to conclusions but it does have implications.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Feb 10, 2022 10:25:17 GMT
Niall Morgan: Time to end handy route for Kerry and DublinThe old chestnut - is coming from a strong or weak province better? The prospect of so many top class games on the doorstep is really something to look forward to from a spectators perspective and it is already on the tip of everyone's tongue, not that it is ever off the agenda up here. Is Gaelic Football a bigger part of people's lives in Ulster I wonder? It is good crack hearing views from each county and they don't hesitate, a bit like ourselves I suppose! An innocent enough inquisition often gets more than you bargained for but always a pleasure, cute as foxes, they'd leave us at the starting grid!
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Feb 10, 2022 12:44:44 GMT
Looks like Niall Morgan doesnt understand the green proposal.
|
|
dano
Senior Member
Posts: 531
|
Post by dano on Feb 10, 2022 15:52:59 GMT
Morgan is just beating that old Ulster drum. It not only disrespects Kerry's present day team effort but it disrespects all their achievements through the years. It is a Psychological move and , although it won't matter to Dublin, it's meant to sow seeds of doubt in the heads of Kerry. He wasn't even discussing the green proposal. Just as Sean Cavanagh snidely remarked to Spillane on national TV last year, "Youse only have to beat the likes of Waterford". Niall Morgan knows well that Kerry probably should have beaten them last year in the semi Final.Although it's early days,Tyrone have been shown up in the League already and it's time to start playing the psych games. The GAA have come up with several different ways to play off the championship, and enacted the back door and the super eights. No matter what the format, Kerry have always managed to win or reach All Irelands. In fact two finals and two Semi Finals(might be only one) were all Munster. There is definitely a need for change. The fact that each Province has a different number of teams is the main issue. When ever it is suggested to get rid of the provincial system, the main objectors are Ulster counties. By all means, get rid of the provincial system and make four groups of eight. What excuse will Niall Morgan and Sean C. have then? They can't have it both ways. After Down beat Kerry for their first All Ireland in the 60s Joe Lennon, a Downman, was in the national papers proclaiming the death of Kerry Football. Their antiquated system, he said, was no good and they wouldn't be winning any more finals. Since he made that ridiculous statement, Kerry have won 16 more.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Feb 14, 2022 8:31:28 GMT
On the sunday game last night, Ciaran Whelan gave a good overview of the good and the bad on the green proposals.
He said one win may be enough in the group stage to get through as one of the 12 qualifiers with the point being that there may not be must at stake in those games.
Joanne seemed to imply that the motion could yet be amended to allow only 2 to qualify from each pool but i doubt that will happen.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Feb 23, 2022 10:41:40 GMT
February 23 2022 02:30 AM MARTIN BREHENY Here’s an appeal to the Congress delegates ahead of Saturday’s debate on changing the All-Ireland football championship format. Tell Central Council, who are backing the proposal, that they have got it wrong, vote ‘no’ and order a new drawing board. It’s unlikely to happen because there’s a sense of weariness over a protracted process, involving options A and B, ‘green’ and ‘red’ proposals and a Special Congress debate last October, which showed a willingness for change, although not in the form of what was on offer. A new proposal emerged in December and received the backing of Central Council last month. They will have all their ducks in an obedient row at Congress, quacking about how the latest plan satisfies enough interests to make it viable. The reality is different, but since there’s a mood for change, it may turn into a case of doing something just for the sake of it. Here’s a reminder of what’s proposed. The Allianz League will run as normal, followed by the provincial championships. The winners and beaten finalists (eight) will qualify for the last 16 in the All-Ireland championship and will be joined by the eight highest league finishers, not including the provincial finalists. The last 16 will be divided into four groups of four for a round-robin series. Provincial winners will be seeded No 1, with runners-up seeded 2. The four winners of the round-robin games will qualify for the quarter-finals; a play-off between the second- and third-placed teams will decide the other four places. So what’s wrong with it? One: It retains the imbalanced and unfair provincial championships at the championship’s core. Two: it introduces a round-robin where only the bottom team in each of the four groups is eliminated. That’s 24 games to get rid of four teams. Three: Since Division 4 teams are unlikely to either reach provincial finals or win the Tailteann Cup, their prospects of ever reaching the last 16 are minimal. The main reason the championship came up for review was because the provincial championships produced so many one-sided games. A proposal to scrap the provincials from the All-Ireland format (Option B) and instead use league placings to decide who qualified for the knockout stages won a 51-49pc majority at Special Congress last October but required 60pc to be carried. It was assumed the reason it failed was down to the removal of the provincials – hence the insistence they had to be retained in the updated plan. That ignores another distinct possibility. Option B had a fundamental flaw in that sixth, seventh and eighth league-placed finishers were barred from the championship, while ninth, 10th, 11th, 17th, 25th qualified. It was a ridiculous idea, a clear case of replacing one unfair system (provincials) with another. If the proposal had allowed all teams to compete for the Sam Maguire Cup, with their entry point decided by league placings, it would have had a decent chance of reaching the 60pc target. Instead, it was rejected, allowing provincial councils an opportunity to argue that the old system had to remain part of any revamp. Other than adding a 16-team round-robin, the new system won’t vary a whole lot from what applies this year. League placings will be used to decide the top 16 (along with provincial finalists) but since the higher-ranked counties almost always come through the qualifiers, it won’t make much difference. Effectively, the whole process has been much ado about nothing. The chance to remove the provincials as the championship starting point was blown by a daft alternative, which for some unexplained reason had the support of the GPA. Provincial championship advocates were delighted to see Option B put forward as the main proposal as it left them with the easy task of pointing out its failings. Option B was so flawed that the original source of the problem (the provincials) have resurfaced as the solution. How crazy is that? Congress should acknowledge that on Saturday by voting down the latest proposal and ordering a restart of the entire process. And this time, make sure logic never leaves the room www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/why-gaas-annual-congress-should-reject-latest-crazy-plan-for-reform-of-football-championship-41374624.html
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Feb 25, 2022 22:12:53 GMT
Green Proposal League as normal. Provincials as normal - but to be run off over 5 weeks. Round-robin groups of four in both Sam and Tailteann. Draws for the groups will be made once the provincial semi-finals are played. Guarantees a minimum of 4 championship game for every county. 24 counties will have a minimum of 5 games. From the second year, the winner of the previous year's Tailteann Cup will play in the Sam Maguire Cup. The Sam Maguire group stages will be seeded. Seed 1 - Provincial Winners Seed 2 - Provincial Losers Seed 3 - next 4 ranked by league status Seed 4 - next 4 ranked by league status [No mention of whether the Tailteann winner will be a 3rd seed or a 4th seed] [Also no mention of whether the two teams that get promoted from Division 2 will be ranked higher than the two teams that get relegated from Division 1 - I would assume the two promoted teams would be ranked higher (this would have implications for the seeding)] Provincial champions will be rewarded with their first group game at home. Each team will have a home, away and neutral game in the group stages. The 4 top teams after the group stages go straight into the quarter-finals. The four teams finishing 2nd play will play a game against the four teams that finished 3rd in what is being called a preliminary quarter-final round. There will be a draw for this and teams from the same group will be kept apart. [Didn't make any mention of avoiding repeat fixtures from the provincials but you would hope this is there] The 4 top teams from the group will play the winners of the preliminary quarter-final round. [Again no mention of any rule in relation to keeping teams apart if possible.] Then semi-finals and finals. For the Tailteann Cup draw Seed 1 - top 4 ranked eligible teams at the end of the league Seed 2 - teams ranked 21-24 at the end of the league Seed 3 - teams ranked 25-28 at the end of the league Seed 4 - teams ranked 29-32 at the end of the league Round-robin group with 3 games. Top seed gets first game at home. After the Tailteann group stage, the 4 teams that top the groups go into the Tailteann Cup quarter-finals. The 4 teams that finish 2nd will play 3 of the best 3rd placed teams in the groups and New York. The 3 best 3rd placed teams will be decided by points and score difference. [No mention of whether New York will be playing in the Connacht championship - I would assume not.] [Also no confirmation of whether the New York game will be played in Ireland or the US - there was a worked example that showed Antrim v New York but I don't know if that confirms things one way or the other] Then same structure as Sam - quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals. The next stage is that when the motions for congress are released, the actual details of everything should be clarified. Given the GPA and the Provincial Councils are on board and the county boards are likely to be happy with the increased number of games i.e. more cash, I'd be very surprised if this isn't passed at Congress. Wording of the motion available at the link below . www.gaa.ie/news/annual-congress-2022-the-motions-explained/Clarifies some of the questions I had about this proposal. If the winner of the previous year's Tailteann Cup doesn't qualify through other means for the Sam Maguire Round Robin stage, they take the place of the lowest ranked national league team i.e the team ranked 8th in the league after the 8 provincial winners and losers are given the top 8 ranking spots in the group stages. So if a team finished 2nd in Division 1 but wins the Division 1 final, they are the ranked ahead of the team who finished 1st in Division 1 after the seven regular rounds. This applies for all four of the Division finals. Also the two promoted teams from Division 2 will be ranked higher than the two relegated teams from Division 1.[and so on for the other Divisions] There are rules about avoiding repeat pairings at the various stages as much as possible. No trips to the US to play New York. I wouldn't be surprised if New York is one of the few counties who votes against this. They may be in favour as a game every year against what would be a bottom-half of Division 3 side every year is probably more winnable than the Connacht roulette of teams. The negative for New York is probably the fact that the game is in Ireland as opposed to in the US. I wonder if there is a chance that this might be switched back to the US down the road? I still have concerns about the fact that the group stages will have dead rubbers and I think there is too much regard given to the provincial competitions. Long-term my hope would be that the two tier championship will develop into a three tier championship and the provincials are relegated to the status of pre-season warm-up competitions.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Feb 25, 2022 23:14:54 GMT
The group system is kind of silly. 4 teams in a group and 3 qualify. A team could lose two games and draw the third and qualify for quarter final and win all ireland. It's probably inevitable that before too long teams will end end up getting three unmerciful hidings in the group stages. If it's a situation where there is a whipping boy team in one group, with the way qualification works and the advantage finishing first offers over finishing second or third, the other three teams are incentivised to run up the score as much as possible which could make for some nasty looking scorelines, especially when it's three games in short succession. Depending on how things shake out between the provincial draws and championships, the league results and the prvious year's Tailteann Cup winner, which all decide the seedings and then how the draw for the group goes, I could see there being years where there are serious differences in the standards between the groups. People might think with three to qualify from the groups it might not matter much but given the advantage of finishing first the group gives over finishing second or third, there could be some ferocious battles in some groups while in other groups the top seed might be able to cruise through fairly easily, resting players with knocks, giving squad players game-time. I think it will be especially interesting to track bookies odds for teams before and after the draw for the group stages.
|
|
horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,051
|
Post by horsebox77 on Feb 27, 2022 9:54:44 GMT
Ok, we have the proposal and now the confirmed structure for 2023, but can someone please refresh my brain, is 2022 straight knockout? I read people quoting quarter finals for 2022, that is what has me a bit confused…. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Deise Exile on Feb 27, 2022 10:04:22 GMT
This year is pre super eights format with a back door
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Feb 27, 2022 10:27:37 GMT
Ok, we have the proposal and now the confirmed structure for 2023, but can someone please refresh my brain, is 2022 straight knockout? I read people quoting quarter finals for 2022, that is what has me a bit confused…. Thanks. 2022 is like it was before the super 8. There will be qualifiers ....there will be a last 8.... then knockout for QF, SF
|
|
horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,051
|
Post by horsebox77 on Feb 27, 2022 13:14:25 GMT
Thanks ...
|
|
|
Post by legendz on Mar 12, 2022 15:48:30 GMT
The group system is kind of silly. 4 teams in a group and 3 qualify. A team could lose two games and draw the third and qualify for quarter final and win all ireland. 3 out of 4 qualifying seems silly alright. The Super 8s had the top 2 going through which seemed sensible and fair. For 3 emerging to avoid dead rubbers, they should insert a rule that Round 1 winners cannot meet in Round 2. This will guarantee that no team can win a group before Round 3. It also means that no team can be eliminated before Round 3, thus guaranteeing that everyone has something to play for in Round 3. The provincial winners are to be guaranteed home advantage in Round 1. If a rule is inserted that Round 1 winners cannot meet in Round 2, there will have to be logistical leeway for the neutral venue round being at Round 2 or 3 depending on the Round 1 results. Great convolution for a GAA format!
|
|