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Post by onlykerry on Oct 25, 2021 12:34:46 GMT
Dublin didnt speak on the motion and no one knows how Dublin delegates voted per todays indo. Incredible and depressing that Dublin and Kerry have acted in this manner. You have to admire the Ulster counties and the courage of their convictions. The Ulster counties convictions came from having a competitive provincial championship - they wanted to retain it. Kerry and others see the need for change but were not convinced Plan B as presented was the right way forward - they refused to be brow beaten into accepting a mediocre format that has obvious flaws and would need surgery fairly quickly for things that could and should have been sorted if a proper evaluation and consultation process took place. The only depressing thing for me was the GAA's reluctance to take feedback and amend the proposal.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 25, 2021 13:21:40 GMT
How is your top 12 from the league arrived at again Division 1 plus top 4 in Division 2. That gives two sixteens for the two championships - then either straight knock out or if time permits and the appetite is there 4 groups of 4 for a round robin followed by either a top 8 or top 4 into knockouts. All depends on the objectives (revenue, TV, excitement etc) and time available. But but but.... if all division one teams quality even if they lose all games, where is the point of that? Wont every division one county be using the league like challenge matches to try out players. No edge to games.....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 14:06:25 GMT
Incredible and depressing that Dublin and Kerry have acted in this manner. You have to admire the Ulster counties and the courage of their convictions. The Ulster counties convictions came from having a competitive provincial championship - they wanted to retain it. Kerry and others see the need for change but were not convinced Plan B as presented was the right way forward - they refused to be brow beaten into accepting a mediocre format that has obvious flaws and would need surgery fairly quickly for things that could and should have been sorted if a proper evaluation and consultation process took place. The only depressing thing for me was the GAA's reluctance to take feedback and amend the proposal. The county board never got off the fence so hard to know exactly what they contributed to any of this
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 25, 2021 16:19:32 GMT
Division 1 plus top 4 in Division 2. That gives two sixteens for the two championships - then either straight knock out or if time permits and the appetite is there 4 groups of 4 for a round robin followed by either a top 8 or top 4 into knockouts. All depends on the objectives (revenue, TV, excitement etc) and time available. But but but.... if all division one teams quality even if they lose all games, where is the point of that? Wont every division one county be using the league like challenge matches to try out players. No edge to games..... That is not what happens in the current league - teams want to win the league as its a graded national competition. We have two National competitions at present - a graded league and a stand alone championship which includes a provincial element. Is the plan to have a couple of mickey mouse competitions and two graded championships. Ensuring players have silverware to play for in meaningful competitions is essential. If the higher ranking teams have home advantage in the championship it will help incentivise them to do well and if it becomes a seeded group stage the same applies. In many ways the bigger decision is whether the Sam Maguire competition has 8, 12 or 16 teams competing in it.
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 25, 2021 16:52:01 GMT
Just for clarity - the Irish Examiner had a live blog on the comments being made from the 22 people who spoke on the motion and here is the Kerry contribution.
Kerry chairman Tim Murphy has asked for voting on Proposal B to be deferred, saying it would be a “travesty” if the motion is put to the floor today and is beaten.
Murphy requested voting on Proposal B be delayed for 12 weeks to allow for a national roadshow where everyone can have their voice on the league-based championship proposal.
"Strong points have been made on both sides. To me, it is a really strong motion and has strong attributes, but I would caveat that to say that it would be a travesty today if the motion is put to the floor today and it is beaten. All the good work of the fixtures taskforce committee would go to waste.
"I do feel the motion has huge attributes. I would urge for a defined period of time to consider it. Have a roadshow, go around to the provinces. If we come back here in 12 or 13 weeks time with the same motion, we can’t say we didn’t give everyone a chance to have their say."
What is not clear from these comments is if he envisaged the roadshow as being a consultation which would/could result in tweaks or it it was simply to inform and clarify the proposal.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 26, 2021 10:01:51 GMT
Irish John Fogarty: Seán Kelly’s plan the basis for Gaelic football’s future
MON, 25 OCT, 2021 - 21:33 John fogarty John Fogarty
To be fair to former GAA president John Horan, he didn’t have to present Proposal B last Saturday. With the split season officially commencing next year along with the first July All-Ireland finals, he has left his mark on the football year.
But ownership of the proposals was pretty thin on the ground, two members of the calendar review fixtures taskforce (Stephen Barker and John Prenty) were openly against it, at least two were going to vote for it, and the prospect of the GPA chief executive Tom Parsons, Cork CEO Kevin O’Donovan, Wexford chairman Micheál Martin or their fellow committee member Conor O’Donoghue commending the motion to the floor might not have worked as well as hoped.
As the man who got that band together, Horan was the most appropriate person and most senior to deliver it. However, many delegates already knew how little he thought of the provincial championships.
In an interview with Na Fianna TV during the first lockdown in June of last year, he said one of the organisation’s “big challenges is to tackle the monster that is the traditional feature of the GAA that is the provincial championships.”
That challenge brought itself to bear at the weekend as the vote for Proposal B fell almost 10% shy of coming into operation for the 2022 season.
Horan, who knows a thing or two about votes having won his presidential race by a landslide, clearly realised the numbers were not adding up when he suggested a deferral in the running of the All-Ireland SFC League until 2023 by which stage the creases in the format would be ironed out.
By the time next summer comes around, it will be two years since the B championship was to make its debut. Horan has had to be patient to see that plan of his come together and he was prepared to wait again. A deferral of a championship structure against calls for a deferral of the motion was still a deferral.
Learn more
“We are still not ready to say goodbye to the provinces,” former GAA trustee and Tipperary chairman John Costigan said last month. The late Eugene McGee realised the same when his Football Review Committee (FRC) jettisoned their most radical schemes and forwarded the first four eight-team provincial conference model in 2013 after former GAA president Christy Cooney floated the idea of reshaping the provincial boundaries 10 years ago. That FRC proposal never made it to the Clár.
Saturday made clear that the provincial championships — lopsided as they are in quality and number and tired as they are in their current guise — will have to be incorporated in a new All-Ireland structure. As GAA director general Tom Ryan said on Saturday, they don’t have to go back to square one with a system for the 2023 season. Likewise, Parsons’s claim that another motion should be on the Clár at February’s Annual Congress is by no means unreasonable, but for now at least retaining the link between the provinces and the All-Ireland must be a part of a memorandum of understanding.
That doesn’t have to mean they are the sole means of entering the All-Ireland series. Nearly 10 years old, Seán Kelly’s All-Ireland SFC proposal remains one of the strongest we have seen, providing Sam Maguire Cup qualification based on league and provincial finishes.
Kelly envisages the eight provincial finalists as well as the top eight in the Allianz League who haven’t reached their provincial decider, qualifying for a knock-out Sam Maguire Cup, the other 16 contesting the Tailteann Cup.
At the same time, Kelly’s idea shouldn’t fall where Proposal B did in not being updated. Streamlining the league so that Division 1 becomes two groups of six would open the competition to more development.
By reducing the length of the league, it may also allow for a round robin format at the outset of the provincial championships for lower league teams whereby they would have a running start when facing stronger counties in provincial semi-finals or finals.
And does Kelly’s Sam Maguire Cup have to be knock-out or is there an opportunity for round games as there would be for smaller counties? One of the problems with the Super 8 was the lack of championship round robin games for weaker counties. If they were to be a round-robin section for each, there would be parity.
Kelly’s strong media profile wasn’t always to the liking of officials who remain in positions of power within the GAA. However, it would be a shame if his model was to be ignored on the basis of personality clashes.
It is incumbent on those who either by sitting on their hands or lobbying against a proposal they helped to formulate come up with an answer soon. Otherwise, they are exactly what the Club Players Association (CPA) say they were.
Galway saga all about where you come from
As Davy Fitzgerald alluded to on The Late Late Show on Friday night, it appeared he was on course to be the next Galway hurling manager before Henry Shefflin was recommended.
What has since emerged is how upset Galway officials were at an article that appeared on The Clare Echo website last Tuesday, which claimed that Fitzgerald’s proposed management team would be predominantly from his native county.
In actual fact, most of those that Fitzgerald was targeting for roles hailed from Galway.
Fitzgerald had not been in a position to name his assistants as some were still involved in the Galway championship action and other county set-ups.
St Thomas’ was one club from where he was hoping to draw coaching expertise.
The damage done by the perception Fitzgerald was transplanting a group into an inferior Galway combined with the premature reports he all but had the position was terminal.
Kilkenny great Shefflin will bring class and prestige although a Leinster SHC clash with the Cats will be watched with intrigue — Galway and Kilkenny are in separate Allianz Division 1 groups so unless they face off in the knock-out stages of the league there will be a wait until the summer.
His proclamation to Brian O’Driscoll in July that he would never manage against his own applied to his club Shamrocks and there is an element of understanding if not belief in his county that he wasn’t prepared to wait for Brian Cody to depart.
On the other hand, he will be plotting against TJ and Richie Reid, Adrian and Darren Mullen, Eoin Cody, Darragh Corcoran, and possibly Joey Holden.
With such a sizeable contingent from the club in Cody’s group, he may as well be facing his own.
GAA should make haste for players
The perception of the Gaelic Players Association (GPA) as an elitist group is growing old as is the idea they will simply down their Size 5s and hurleys now that their wishes have been granted.
Now that they are largely funded by the GAA and have protocols in place in the event of difficulties, strike is an even more unlikely prospect especially when money isn’t exactly flowing right now.
That’s not to say they couldn’t be disruptive and going by the civil but firm words of GPA chief executive Tom Parsons they may be if change is postponed any longer than next spring’s Annual Congress when the Allianz Leagues will up and running.
“We have enough time between now and February,” he said on Saturday. “We can’t be slow. Don’t tell me February is not possible. Every year that is missed is potentially another year gone for the development of footballers and potentially another year where maybe players in lower counties decide to opt out because they don’t see a pathway to success.
“If it takes burning the midnight oil and getting in a room all day on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday, out of respect for the amount of effort the players put in in having these conversations with county executives and managers, and the amount of debate, don’t tell me we can’t come to next February with stronger proposals.”
Whatever the proposal, the players deserve expediency.
Email: john.fogarty@examiner.ie
MORE GAELIC FOOTBALL ARTICLES
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Post by dc84 on Oct 26, 2021 15:08:04 GMT
Not if you take a different angle to the Provincials - the best place team in each Provincial championship that does not qualify for the senior AI from their league position get the provincial place. This could make the provincials a real target for lower division teams who want a place at the top table and could spice them up. It also ensures that every team in the country has a crack at the senior AI every year. Top 12 from the league plus the four Provincial qualifiers play in the AI with the remaining teams in the Tailteann. So you envisage the league being run off first i assume If Kerry come high enough in the league to make the cut for the championship wouldnt they put out the B team in the Munster championship to give all panelists a run out And probably still be close to winning it as dublin would be
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Post by piggott on Oct 26, 2021 21:46:05 GMT
Replace the 3rd team in Div 2 with the 6th team in Div 1.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 27, 2021 11:28:49 GMT
Kieran Shannon: Larry McCarthy and Tom Ryan are lucky to get a second chance. They must take it
TUE, 26 OCT, 2021 - 07:00 Kieran Shannon Kieran Shannon
If the past month has highlighted anything, it’s that it’s not just on Proposal B that that inter-county footballers and managers significantly differ from administrators. It’s that managers and players are publicly accountable, while a lot of leading officials are not.
Take the case of Peter Keane. Three years ago this month, having achieved the not-inconsiderable feat of leading his county’s minors to three consecutive All-Ireland titles, he was appointed Kerry senior team manager.
In his first year, he took a team that had failed to reach even the All-Ireland semi-final stage the previous year and guided them to within a kick of a ball of winning the 2019 All-Ireland and beating the greatest team the sport has ever known.
In 2020, his team went one better in the league by winning it, but were undone in the championship by a goal in injury time of extra time.
In 2021, his team came back with a vengeance, playing devastating football in the league before going on to win the Munster Championship in the most comprehensive manner it has ever seen. But then, after being in the groove of playing a match every week or two, they had a five-week layoff and were subsequently beaten in the All-Ireland semi-final by a point in extra time.
And that, folks, was that for Keane. Didn’t matter that his team lost to the eventual All-Ireland champions. Didn’t matter that over his three years he never lost a championship match in normal regulation, that any defeat he endured was either in a replay or in extra time. He was replaced, removed, in a very public manner, his name and headshot appearing in every national paper and multiple other social and traditional media platforms.
Imagine how tough those days must have been for him and his family and management team. But even he would have understood at various times before, during, and after serving in the post, that such a possibility could come with the territory.
In Kerry, there are certain standards and expectations to be met, at least by managers, and the blunt truth of it was, Covid or no Covid, he’d fallen short. Two leagues, two Munster titles and two All-Ireland semi-final and final appearances wasn’t good enough. Kerry’s “failure” was on him.
Players are similarly droppable, disposable. If you go a game or two without playing to a certain level, you are left off the starting 15, possibly even the matchday 26, or the panel itself. And the whole county — sometimes even the whole country — knows about it, or any mistake you might make in a televised match.
The Sunday Game boys can circle you on their screens and say you should have been here, you should have done this, but you didn’t track and cover back; you fumbled the ball, fluffed that kickout. You cost your side the chance to deliver an All-Ireland.
Last weekend, the GAA as an organisation fumbled the ball. Between its director general (Tom Ryan), its president (Larry McCarthy), and its director of games administration (the anonymous but highly influential Fergal Magill) who served on the fixtures review taskforce that came up with Proposals A and B, they didn’t track back and sweep up all the obvious and avoidable flaws inherent in them both. And so they blew the chance to deliver a satisfying All-Ireland for all of us as much as the infinitely-more scrutinised James Horan and his players did for Mayo the previous month. After all that momentum, talk, hype, and expectation over the preceding four weeks, they failed to get over the line.
Except the GAA hierarchy doesn’t look at it that way.
As Larry McCarthy said in declaring the result: “The motion has failed.”
He hadn’t — at least not in the way a Keane or Horan had.
Nor had Ryan. Instead, the director general cut a detached, unperturbed figure in the post-congress press conference, just, as Jack Anderson of this parish noted, like he had in a pre-congress press conference last week.
“Ryan’s tepid support,” Anderson wrote, “was a bit like how Irish people generally greet a dessert trolley. ‘I’m not really sure, do I have to? Ah sure, the chocolate cake will do.’ GAA Congress delegates know that a soft yes from the top table is really a nod saying: ‘It’s OK to vote no if you don’t know.’ ”
That was probably the most significant reason why Proposal B fell — because of what we might call ‘The Shaggy Factor’. Too many top-table officials could protest ‘It Wasn’t Me’. (We don’t even know how some delegates on the floor, like Dublin — and John Costello, a fixtures taskforce member — sided, again in stark contrast to players who often have a scoring return or even player rating alongside their name in the paper).
Or, in McCarthy’s case, the Billy Jean factor, given he didn’t set up the fixtures review taskforce.
This kid was not his son.
Magill had no such excuse, being a member of the fixtures taskforce Horan commissioned, and surely one of the figures its ex-chair Eddie Sullivan was alluding to last month in suggesting that there were people in Croke Park capable of amending any championship proposals ahead of Special Congress. Anybody who has undergone the painful process of doing a doctorate will be familiar with having to defend that doctorate and pre-empting any possible counter-arguments.
Sadly, Magill hadn’t either the inclination or ability to pre-empt them and robustly defend his taskforce’s thesis.
Any sub-committee McCarthy now commissions must do so. Proposal B’s flaws are numerous, but resolvable. First, there’s what we might call The Monaghan Factor: That the sixth-highest-ranked team in the country won’t qualify for the knockout stages of the All-Ireland. This could be easily sorted by this column’s decade-long campaign for a return to Division 1A/1B format, where the sixth-best team in the country — by virtue of being third in their eight-team group — would make it to an All-Ireland quarter-final round.
One other weakness in Proposal B that didn’t get enough attention was what we’d call the Dublin or Kerry factor.
Both those counties would almost certainly finish in the top five of Division 1. So by game six of a seven-game campaign, they’d probably have already qualified for their All-Ireland quarter-final.
There wouldn’t be enough incentive for them to top a group, and thus for supporters to go in their droves to their round-robin games.
Proposal B inadvertently was creating too much of what we’d term ‘70% Football’ in both the proposed springtime provincial championships and round-robin championship stages: Some counties wouldn’t be going near full throttle for too much of the year. But again, that is easily rectifiable.
Considering this column first proposed in 2003 the exact hurling championship that finally came into being in 2018, it might be worth hearing how we’d roll out the football championship. Run your provincial round-robin provincial championships as in Proposal B, only this time appease and address the Ulster Factor. Reward the provincial champions with a fourth, or — if you really wanted to call Brian McAvoy’s bluff — a fifth home game in their All-Ireland seven-game group. Also, in the case of two teams ending up on the same number of points, the first tiebreaker becomes who won a provincial championship instead of who won the head-to-head game or had the superior scoring difference.
Then, in the championship, have eight teams in 1A and another eight in 1B. Everyone — in all four groups — plays three games at home (or four if you’re a provincial champion), three away, and one in Croke Park: every weekend there could be a game in each division held at Headquarters, making the place the new Tayto Park: Somewhere where every kid from every county can go for the ride.
The sides that top both Division 1 groups go straight through to an All-Ireland semi-final, while the sides that finish second and third qualify for the All-Ireland quarter-finals: that way you address the Dublin Factor.
Or, if you’re like Kevin O’Donovan and believe it was a strength rather than a flaw of Proposal B that the winners of Division 3 and Division 4 (or possibly 2A and 2B) qualify for the All-Ireland play-offs, such teams could play the teams that topped 1A and 1B. In a couple of years’ time, it might not be the mismatch it would be now. In 2005, Monaghan won the old D2 and pushed Tyrone hard in the last 12.
In 2008, Wexford were also the country’s 17th-ranked team by virtue of being D3 champions, and reached the All-Ireland semi-final. In 2009, the 25th-ranked team in the country, D4 champions Sligo, got within a point of Kerry in Tralee. It had only been two years since they’d been mixing with the big boys in 1A/1B. With a springtime programme of games against the best sides in their province sprinkled with winnable games against teams of their own standing, a team topping D3 and D4 could be suitably battle-hardened to be as competitive as they were in the noughties.
This all could still work out for everyone: Like a team losing a league final or a match in the provinces, absorbing the lessons, making the necessary adjustments, and coming back to win the All-Ireland.
But McCarthy needs to acknowledge all the above factors, especially the Shaggy one. He and Ryan are lucky they have another chance when a Peter Keane did not.
Deliver a fit-for-purpose All-Ireland for 2023, whether that’s through Congress or another special Congress in 2022.
If they don’t, it’s on them.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 27, 2021 11:42:36 GMT
The fear now is that they will create a situation where there are lots of games where the outcome doesnt mean much in terms of qualification.
I would prefer what we had in 2021 to that......a straight knockout where every game was do or die...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 17:10:32 GMT
The fear now is that they will create a situation where there are lots of games where the outcome doesnt mean much in terms of qualification. I would prefer what we had in 2021 to that......a straight knockout where every game was do or die... I think you are right here. Trying to keep everyone happy is not the right answer. The provincials should have no link to the championship. Rewarding the winners with a guaranteed spot in the quarters defeats the purpose of a league based championship. If you can get Galway, Mayo, Kerry and Dublin onside, that should deliver a form of proposal B and you can do this without linking the provincials to the championship.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 30, 2021 23:38:44 GMT
Apologies if this has been discussed already.
How is the Munster championship viewed in Kerry/Munster?
Do Kerry (and Munster) folk want it retained?
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Post by southward on Oct 31, 2021 9:30:15 GMT
Apologies if this has been discussed already. How is the Munster championship viewed in Kerry/Munster? Do Kerry (and Munster) folk want it retained? A bit like the league, winning Munster is soon forgotten and certainly is no sort of consolation if you don't go the whole hog. Sam is the be-all and end-all. I'd say people are less and less bothered about Munster as time goes on. Cork's continuing slumber doesn't help here of course. If it were to go, we'd get over it soon enough, most likely.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Nov 18, 2021 22:39:16 GMT
2022 National League provisional fixtures sent out to county boards.
Round one has Kerry away to Kildare, ironic for Jack for his first game back in charge
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Post by gaelicden on Nov 18, 2021 23:00:38 GMT
2022 National League provisional fixtures sent out to county boards. Round one has Kerry away to Kildare, ironic for Jack for his first game back in charge T'was always going to be the case for his first game back wasn't it? 😂😂
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Post by The16thMan on Nov 18, 2021 23:09:32 GMT
2022 National League provisional fixtures sent out to county boards. Round one has Kerry away to Kildare, ironic for Jack for his first game back in charge Doe anybody have the full league fixtures for Division 1?.. also what is the situation with season tickets?
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Nov 18, 2021 23:17:05 GMT
2022 National League provisional fixtures sent out to county boards. Round one has Kerry away to Kildare, ironic for Jack for his first game back in charge Doe anybody have the full league fixtures for Division 1?.. also what is the situation with season tickets? My reading of it is, the county boards have up until next Thursday to ratify the draft scheduling, I envisage the full fixtures will be released then.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 20:09:25 GMT
2022 National League provisional fixtures sent out to county boards. Round one has Kerry away to Kildare, ironic for Jack for his first game back in charge oh that was done on purpose I'd say 🤪
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Post by dc84 on Nov 22, 2021 21:32:23 GMT
Apologies if this has been discussed already. How is the Munster championship viewed in Kerry/Munster? Do Kerry (and Munster) folk want it retained? To me growing up in the 90s in meant a hell of a lot 96 in killarney will be with me for ever as a great memory. As others have said since 01 it has declined and now to be honest means nothing at all to me now maybe if cork come back to top table it might but I doubt it. I try and go to as many league games as i can but I just couldn't be bothered watching either a) kerry play champagne football and win by 10plus or b) the other team goes all out defence and we win by 5 plus. I don't even bother going to kerry cork games tbh. The league is a funny one as it is more interesting at the start and unless we were playing dublin or mayo in later stages or final I don't really care if we win or not just blood a few new players thats all its for. Our season really begins in the quarter final its all a bit underwhelming really.
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Post by legendz on Nov 23, 2021 18:58:59 GMT
But but but.... if all division one teams quality even if they lose all games, where is the point of that? Wont every division one county be using the league like challenge matches to try out players. No edge to games..... Jimmy McGuinness's variant of the Sean Kelly championship proposal is a good shout; 1. Top 11 from the league being 8 Division 1 teams and 3 Division 2 teams. 2. Tailteann Cup winner from the previous year. 3. The 4 provincial winners. Sure all Division 1 teams have qualified but dropping to Division 2 is what they'll want to avoid in the following year. In my humble opinion, the 4 provincial winners should be top seeds for the Final 16. The remaining 12 teams should be put in pots 2, 3 and 4 based on league placing. Provincial winners should be drawn against a Pot 4 opponent. Pot 2 teams should be drawn against Pot 3 opponents. The format of the Final 16 is debatable. The International Rules Series is played over 2 games. I'm of the humble opinion that the All-Ireland Round of 16 could be played over 2 legs home and away. It'll give each team a home game. From my suggestion above, Provincial winners and Pot 2 teams can have home advantage in the 2nd leg. The win for a so-called lower county in the Round of 16 is that they'll get to host a high calibre opponent. Their ground will be buzzing for the game.
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mg72
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Post by mg72 on Nov 23, 2021 21:30:43 GMT
This article is from The Examiner online about possible changes to the minor grade age.
TUE, 23 NOV, 2021 - 18:00 JOHN FOGARTY The GAA are drafting a proposal to drop the U20 grade to U19 at inter-county level that would effectively make it the new minor grade.
The current minor grade of U17 would continue but it is envisaged that those football and hurling competitions would become developmental.
The move is an attempt to quell concerns that the gap between U17 and senior at club level has become excessive and led to drop-out among players. The lower standard at minor inter-county level since the switch to U17 has also been noticeable.
If the motion is successful at February’s gathering in Mayo counties will be encouraged to replicate the change at club level. However, they would still have the power to organise the under-age competitions as they see fit.
The news comes as a number of counties are to debate motions calling for the return of the U18 minor grade. It was reported last week that Monaghan club Corduff were putting forward a motion for the restoration of the U18 minor grade.
Former inter-county referee and Corduff minor manager Pat McEnaney told The Irish News that U17 is too far removed now from senior level: “To me, by moving to U17, that gap has become bigger. That’s my biggest concern about U17 football. We need to go back.
“U18 is the first real competitive challenge we should be putting people under, and give it a better position.
“We’ve always played our U18 finals before our senior final and it always got a better standing, I think we’ve watered the whole thing down. We’re losing bigger numbers and it’s lost its presence within the county, is my view on it.”
While moving the minor grade from U18 to U17 at club level has decoupled under-age players from adult teams and assisted fixture planning, Armagh’s Silverbridge are one of a number of clubs that seek a return to even number under-age levels. However, former Orchard County defender Aidan O’Rourke believes the change to the odd numbers at under-age level has worked but more work has to be done by counties the closer players get to senior level.
“Meaningful u19 season - league & championship that gives lads something to train for & regular games at an appropriate level to hang their hat on,” he recently tweeted. “Most counties - including my own - have gotten this wrong so far. If this can't be done at u19 or u20 then the drop off will continue”.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Nov 24, 2021 11:19:24 GMT
Apologies if this has been discussed already. How is the Munster championship viewed in Kerry/Munster? Do Kerry (and Munster) folk want it retained? To me growing up in the 90s in meant a hell of a lot 96 in killarney will be with me for ever as a great memory. As others have said since 01 it has declined and now to be honest means nothing at all to me now maybe if cork come back to top table it might but I doubt it. I try and go to as many league games as i can but I just couldn't be bothered watching either a) kerry play champagne football and win by 10plus or b) the other team goes all out defence and we win by 5 plus. I don't even bother going to kerry cork games tbh. The league is a funny one as it is more interesting at the start and unless we were playing dublin or mayo in later stages or final I don't really care if we win or not just blood a few new players thats all its for. Our season really begins in the quarter final its all a bit underwhelming really. I suppose pre-2001, only one team from Munster went forward to the AI series, so it was more do or die, and a Munster title meant more. The qualifiers have diluted the provincial championships, especially Munster. Even with Kerry/Cork on an even keel, the overall Munster championship was never fiercely competitive (I suppose you could say that about Leinster too, as 4 or 5 of them were rarely competitive). It’s hard to know what the answer is, as regards the future of the provincials. I’d be very disappointed if the Ulster championship was scrapped. But it does seem likely that Ulster would take the hit for the other 3 provinces (well, maybe not so much Connacht) not being competitive, and that would be a real shame.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Nov 24, 2021 11:32:34 GMT
This article is from The Examiner online about possible changes to the minor grade age. TUE, 23 NOV, 2021 - 18:00 JOHN FOGARTY The GAA are drafting a proposal to drop the U20 grade to U19 at inter-county level that would effectively make it the new minor grade. The current minor grade of U17 would continue but it is envisaged that those football and hurling competitions would become developmental. The move is an attempt to quell concerns that the gap between U17 and senior at club level has become excessive and led to drop-out among players. The lower standard at minor inter-county level since the switch to U17 has also been noticeable. If the motion is successful at February’s gathering in Mayo counties will be encouraged to replicate the change at club level. However, they would still have the power to organise the under-age competitions as they see fit. The news comes as a number of counties are to debate motions calling for the return of the U18 minor grade. It was reported last week that Monaghan club Corduff were putting forward a motion for the restoration of the U18 minor grade. Former inter-county referee and Corduff minor manager Pat McEnaney told The Irish News that U17 is too far removed now from senior level: “To me, by moving to U17, that gap has become bigger. That’s my biggest concern about U17 football. We need to go back. “U18 is the first real competitive challenge we should be putting people under, and give it a better position. “We’ve always played our U18 finals before our senior final and it always got a better standing, I think we’ve watered the whole thing down. We’re losing bigger numbers and it’s lost its presence within the county, is my view on it.” While moving the minor grade from U18 to U17 at club level has decoupled under-age players from adult teams and assisted fixture planning, Armagh’s Silverbridge are one of a number of clubs that seek a return to even number under-age levels. However, former Orchard County defender Aidan O’Rourke believes the change to the odd numbers at under-age level has worked but more work has to be done by counties the closer players get to senior level. “Meaningful u19 season - league & championship that gives lads something to train for & regular games at an appropriate level to hang their hat on,” he recently tweeted. “Most counties - including my own - have gotten this wrong so far. If this can't be done at u19 or u20 then the drop off will continue”. are we happy to loose out every player over 20 except the elite, crazy to me, we should be looking at an u23 completion to develop on younger lads, maybe go with 17 , 20 and 23.
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mg72
Full Member
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Post by mg72 on Nov 24, 2021 20:06:54 GMT
This article is from The Examiner online about possible changes to the minor grade age. TUE, 23 NOV, 2021 - 18:00 JOHN FOGARTY The GAA are drafting a proposal to drop the U20 grade to U19 at inter-county level that would effectively make it the new minor grade. The current minor grade of U17 would continue but it is envisaged that those football and hurling competitions would become developmental. The move is an attempt to quell concerns that the gap between U17 and senior at club level has become excessive and led to drop-out among players. The lower standard at minor inter-county level since the switch to U17 has also been noticeable. If the motion is successful at February’s gathering in Mayo counties will be encouraged to replicate the change at club level. However, they would still have the power to organise the under-age competitions as they see fit. The news comes as a number of counties are to debate motions calling for the return of the U18 minor grade. It was reported last week that Monaghan club Corduff were putting forward a motion for the restoration of the U18 minor grade. Former inter-county referee and Corduff minor manager Pat McEnaney told The Irish News that U17 is too far removed now from senior level: “To me, by moving to U17, that gap has become bigger. That’s my biggest concern about U17 football. We need to go back. “U18 is the first real competitive challenge we should be putting people under, and give it a better position. “We’ve always played our U18 finals before our senior final and it always got a better standing, I think we’ve watered the whole thing down. We’re losing bigger numbers and it’s lost its presence within the county, is my view on it.” While moving the minor grade from U18 to U17 at club level has decoupled under-age players from adult teams and assisted fixture planning, Armagh’s Silverbridge are one of a number of clubs that seek a return to even number under-age levels. However, former Orchard County defender Aidan O’Rourke believes the change to the odd numbers at under-age level has worked but more work has to be done by counties the closer players get to senior level. “Meaningful u19 season - league & championship that gives lads something to train for & regular games at an appropriate level to hang their hat on,” he recently tweeted. “Most counties - including my own - have gotten this wrong so far. If this can't be done at u19 or u20 then the drop off will continue”. are we happy to loose out every player over 20 except the elite, crazy to me, we should be looking at an u23 completion to develop on younger lads, maybe go with 17 , 20 and 23. My own opinion is that the under-age grades should go back to being even aged.....12's, 14's, 16's, 18's and 20's. After minor, I think that players should be eligible to play senior, but that the under 20 level should have meaningful competions at club level which is taken seriously by all. This will be hard to do though. Once players are eligible to play at senior level, the managers and coaches of senior teams rarely want to release players to play at the under 20 grade. This has always been the way at under 21 level. I can understand this up to a point, as the smaller clubs who're struggling for numbers need these players to enable them to field senior teams, while the larger clubs will always try to fast track their better players onto senior panels and not risk losing them for matches due to playing at the under 20 level. The county board tried to run a meaningful under 20 competition in Kerry this year, but it wasn't taken seriously by some of the clubs. The above examples are some of the reasons that they couldn't get fixtures completed. Having an under 23 grade wouldn't work because of the above reasons too in my humble opinion. But if the minor grade is left at under 17, then I believe that there will have to be an under 19's grade introduced. If there isn't, there will be a lot more of our players who'll pack in playing the games, as there'll be no serious competitions for them to play with fellas their own age, and most of them won't be physically developed enough for senior football. If they're absent for one year, then we risk never getting them back to our sports again. On top of that, I think that the Gaa has a moral and social obligation to provide meaningful games for our youth until they at least turn 18.
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Post by dc84 on Nov 27, 2021 22:13:56 GMT
To me growing up in the 90s in meant a hell of a lot 96 in killarney will be with me for ever as a great memory. As others have said since 01 it has declined and now to be honest means nothing at all to me now maybe if cork come back to top table it might but I doubt it. I try and go to as many league games as i can but I just couldn't be bothered watching either a) kerry play champagne football and win by 10plus or b) the other team goes all out defence and we win by 5 plus. I don't even bother going to kerry cork games tbh. The league is a funny one as it is more interesting at the start and unless we were playing dublin or mayo in later stages or final I don't really care if we win or not just blood a few new players thats all its for. Our season really begins in the quarter final its all a bit underwhelming really. I suppose pre-2001, only one team from Munster went forward to the AI series, so it was more do or die, and a Munster title meant more. The qualifiers have diluted the provincial championships, especially Munster. Even with Kerry/Cork on an even keel, the overall Munster championship was never fiercely competitive (I suppose you could say that about Leinster too, as 4 or 5 of them were rarely competitive). It’s hard to know what the answer is, as regards the future of the provincials. I’d be very disappointed if the Ulster championship was scrapped. But it does seem likely that Ulster would take the hit for the other 3 provinces (well, maybe not so much Connacht) not being competitive, and that would be a real shame. It would alright no easy answer here but the football championship will have to change I think , I get what you say about Ulster with the competitive nature even if its not as competitive as some would have us believe it's not like the 90s. It feels like to me that all teams in munster , leinster and teams like sligo,leitrim and even fermanagh and antrim are not well served currently so it feels like the flip of what you said above. Munster will never be competitive in football unfortunately no matter what happens due to the strenght of hurling connacht is about as competitive as in can be as sligo and leitrim just don't have the populations and leinster is similar with the exception of kildare and Meath who are massively underperforming. It's a hard one but hurling has it about right at the moment football certainly does not far from it.
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Post by whitefire on Nov 30, 2021 21:12:20 GMT
I believe this will be the worst football championship in many, many years. I bet a lot of people aren't even aware the Munster championship draw was made two days ago. We'll get over Cork easy enough again, then win the final pulling up against whatever team comes through the other side, leaving us nicely open once again to being caught by an Ulster team having either come through the qualifiers or a competitive Ulster championship.
It's absolutely madness that we as a county supported the status quo at Special Congress… knowing that it leaves us less prepared for the bigger teams when we hit Croke Park. To outsiders, it looks like, 'We might not be as well prepared but at least we're guaranteed a day out in Croke Park each year and that's all that matters!' The Cork CEO, Kevin O'Donovan, showed real leadership by openly supporting the new format even though it probably makes it harder to Cork to get to the business end of the championship.
No such stewardship in Kerry. I fear that our outgoing chairman had his eyes firmly on that Munster Council vice-chairman position and railroaded our county into maintaining a system that has proved for the past 7 seasons to be detrimental to our chances of winning an All Ireland.
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Post by dc84 on Dec 1, 2021 8:28:48 GMT
I believe this will be the worst football championship in many, many years. I bet a lot of people aren't even aware the Munster championship draw was made two days ago. We'll get over Cork easy enough again, then win the final pulling up against whatever team comes through the other side, leaving us nicely open once again to being caught by an Ulster team having either come through the qualifiers or a competitive Ulster championship. It's absolutely madness that we as a county supported the status quo at Special Congress… knowing that it leaves us less prepared for the bigger teams when we hit Croke Park. To outsiders, it looks like, 'We might not be as well prepared but at least we're guaranteed a day out in Croke Park each year and that's all that matters!' The Cork CEO, Kevin O'Donovan, showed real leadership by openly supporting the new format even though it probably makes it harder to Cork to get to the business end of the championship. No such stewardship in Kerry. I fear that our outgoing chairman had his eyes firmly on that Munster Council vice-chairman position and railroaded our county into maintaining a system that has proved for the past 7 seasons to be detrimental to our chances of winning an All Ireland. Totally agree fear stopped the changes going through id be worried if I was them of the status quo. We are playing cork in cork be surprised if there is more than 10 at that . If i was to guess I'd say there would be less than 30 at the whole munster championship Combined !
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Post by The16thMan on Dec 3, 2021 14:50:17 GMT
Apparently Cork v Kerry next year will be in Páirc Uí Rinn because the surface in PUC will have to be replaced after Ed Sheeran concerts. Capacity of Páirc Uí Rinn is 11,400 but Cork hope to have it extended to 15,000. I can't see Páirc Uí Rinn being good enough to host a Kerry Cork championship clash, they might have to give it to Killarney instead or else go neutral. That would be my opinion
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Post by dc84 on Dec 3, 2021 18:49:10 GMT
Apparently Cork v Kerry next year will be in Páirc Uí Rinn because the surface in PUC will have to be replaced after Ed Sheeran concerts. Capacity of Páirc Uí Rinn is 11,400 but Cork hope to have it extended to 15,000. I can't see Páirc Uí Rinn being good enough to host a Kerry Cork championship clash, they might have to give it to Killarney instead or else go neutral. That would be my opinion The munster championship just gets grimmer and grimmer. Pairc ui rinn is tight enough isnt it from memory?
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Post by southward on Dec 3, 2021 19:10:32 GMT
Apparently Cork v Kerry next year will be in Páirc Uí Rinn because the surface in PUC will have to be replaced after Ed Sheeran concerts. Capacity of Páirc Uí Rinn is 11,400 but Cork hope to have it extended to 15,000. I can't see Páirc Uí Rinn being good enough to host a Kerry Cork championship clash, they might have to give it to Killarney instead or else go neutral. That would be my opinion Whaat If this is true, Cork should forfeit home advantage and no game to be owed. PUC's not long after being reopened ffs. Páirc Uí Rinn would be an insult to the championship.
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