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Post by givehimaball on Jun 25, 2019 16:44:41 GMT
First goal was Morleys fault should have been minding the house instead 3 kerry lads went for the ball and left Connolly on his own in the square. Penalty was collective really too many runners and the thrid we all know. First goal was Moran’s fault. A hop ball on your own 21? Don’t be stupid enough to try catch it- position lads to receive it and then just lead with the fist. It’s too high risk catching it- it’s like we don’t seen to be preparing for in game situations as a lot of the split second decisions- we seem to get wrong For me the throw-up goal was a microcosm of the Kerry defensive issues. The ball came in and was probably what you would call half a half goal chance. When the whistle went and the throw-up was awarded, instead of the Kerry players defensive instincts going into over-drive the Kerry players looked to relax and seemed to think Danger Over. At that stage there was 18 and a half-minutes gone and the scoreline was Kerry 1-5 Cork 0-1. What you want in a game situation like that is to keep the foot on the throat and the last thing you want to do is throw the opposition a life-line. The way Kerry dealt with the throw-ball was the equivalent of rescuing them from drowning, bringing them ashore and taking them out for a shopping spree and a slap-up meal. Proper defenders would have been thinking DANGER OF A GOAL HERE. STOP A GOAL AT ALL COSTS. CONGEST THE AREA BETWEEN THE THROW-UP AND THE GOAL. WHATEVER YOU DO DO NOT GIVE AWAY A GOAL. Instead what happens is pretty much exactly what Cork would have wanted in that situation. Kerry lads take up poor positions and leave acres of space free in front of goal. When the ball goes goalward the lack of Kerry players make it super easy for Cork to get the goal. Looking at when the ball is thrown-up there were 3 Kerry players closer to goal than David Moran (excluding Ryan) Jason Foley (the only Kerry player beside Ryan in the big square) Paul Murphy and Tadhg Morley. Dara Moynihan was off to one side and Tom O'Sullivan off to the other. Jack Barry, Jack Sherwood and Gavin White were all on the wrond side out-the-field. The other thing looking back at the footage in slow-motion it very much looks like David Moran was fouled by Ian Maguire. Maguire initially wraps his left arm around Moran's right and then just before the ball is thrown catches hold of Moran's right arm with his left hand. Moran still manages to win the first ball and gets fingers to the second and it goes back goal-side and falls to Connolly who plays a flicked one-two before finisihing. I'd also be a fair bit critical of Shane Ryan here - I can't help but think Cluxton or any other decent intercounty keeper would have been effing and blinding at his defenders to get goal-side/take up proper positions - he has a head-on view of where everyone is and should know instinctively the acres of open space between the throw-up and the goal posts is a catastrophe waiting to happen. I can so easily visualise Diarmuid Murphy herding defenders back yelling at them to get in a proper position. The thing is a throw-ball on the 21 metre line is not that uncommon an occurrence given the kick-out rules. From what happened it looking like Kerry had no specific plan in place for this or the players didn't follow the plan. Neither of those two possibilities bode well for sorting out Kerry's defence any time soon.
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Post by augustafield on Jun 25, 2019 16:49:17 GMT
If we are “ not keeping something up our sleeves “ ( Attacking Wing Back ) or “ Fluting around “ ( Kerryexile ) then if what I saw last Saturday night is our best shot we are done of it this year . I refuse to believe that Kerry team is the best we are going to see this year - there is far better football to come from us.
Mark my words when we play Galway ( or their conquerors ) in Killarney next month . The only qualification I would make is that there must be one definite change in personnel in the forwards . I am satisfied PK and his management team know who they want from 1 to 9 .
Park the doom and gloom . Keep the faith . Last 4 position is achievable . After that .... ?
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Jun 25, 2019 18:20:37 GMT
I have been reading through this thread for a few days now, so, I have… observations.
Very clearly, practically every contributor to this forum is critical of the Kerry defense to one degree or another. Some have expressed the hope that we might somehow develop an Algorithm for defending or maybe unearth a ‘Carlsberg’ defender overnight that would solve all of our problems. Otherwise, we cannot overcome.
The great thing about football is that, despite all the rules, there are a hundred different ways to play it. It's the job of the manager to shape the way a team plays and you only have to take one look at the elite end of the sport to see differences in the way team’s set-up and play the game
Now I am not so blind that I do not see the shortcomings in our defense, and assessing our strengths & weaknesses realistically is, of course, important, but surely this is being offset at the other end of the pitch with the scores that we are amassing. Outscoring the opposition has always been the way games are decided. There are a number of ways of skinning a cat, but then of course "we have never done it this way", "it will never be accepted". Some even promote the idea of reverting back to 'Bóithrín football' I have listened to opinionated “experts” telling us all that Donegal were now the team most likely to dethrone Dublin. That may well be so, but I saw a very average Cavan forward division put 2-16 on them. Sean Cavanagh believes that we would not make the Super 8’s in any other Province. Tá sé ag caint caca tarbh - as is his wont. The only disability in life is a bad attitude. Like Augustafield says, keep the faith.
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Post by dc84 on Jun 25, 2019 18:49:06 GMT
I have been reading through this thread for a few days now, so, I have… observations. Very clearly, practically every contributor to this forum is critical of the Kerry defense to one degree or another. Some have expressed the hope that we might somehow develop an Algorithm for defending or maybe unearth a ‘Carlsberg’ defender overnight that would solve all of our problems. Otherwise, we cannot overcome. The great thing about football is that, despite all the rules, there are a hundred different ways to play it. It's the job of the manager to shape the way a team plays and you only have to take one look at the elite end of the sport to see differences in the way team’s set-up and play the game Now I am not so blind that I do not see the shortcomings in our defense, and assessing our strengths & weaknesses realistically is, of course, important, but surely this is being offset at the other end of the pitch with the scores that we are amassing. Outscoring the opposition has always been the way games are decided. There are a number of ways of skinning a cat, but then of course "we have never done it this way", "it will never be accepted". Some even promote the idea of reverting back to 'Bóithrín football' I have listened to opinionated “experts” telling us all that Donegal were now the team most likely to dethrone Dublin. That may well be so, but I saw a very average Cavan forward division put 2-16 on them. Sean Cavanagh believes that we would not make the Super 8’s in any other Province. Tá sé ag caint caca tarbh - as is his wont. The only disability in life is a bad attitude. Like Augustafield says, keep the faith. Ah the media need someone to build up to make a story, I think we will be better in the super 8s than last Saturday and last year. Attitude is a funny variable especially in younger minds, when we went 1-5 to 0-1 up did the intensity drop by ten percent? Ulster folk love to go on about how competitive and amazing there championship is we will see connacht is the best at the moment 3 decent teams.
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Post by john4 on Jun 25, 2019 19:17:50 GMT
From here on out, if we don't concede another goal in the matches in front of us, I've no doubt but we have the forwards plenty good enough to win the thing. It's the goals that'll kill us. In our last 3 games, leaving out goals. Mayo, in the league final scored 11 points, Clare scored 12, and Cork 10. They'd be harmless scorelines on their own. We mightn't look like we're defending well but no one scoring a lot of points off us, we're doing ok against the distance shooters. 2 of the goals Saturday were pure stupid from us and that has to end. If I was in goal for the league final, and for it to end the way it did, I'd give every yard of the road home telling myself that if a situation like that ever arose again, I'd stay on the line. 2 games later nothing learned.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Jun 25, 2019 19:32:33 GMT
Pat Spillane is often quoted that in his day, the Kerry players and management never bothered talking about the opposition. That day is long gone.
A successful team these days will know what to expect from any opponent. Just like we all know how Fermanagh will set up, the onus is on their opponent to devise a scheme to break them down.
It is hardly news that Kerry can be "got at" with direct running down the middle. So time for Kerry to adapt by either fixing via personnel changes or via training and repetitive exposure to that type of gameplan.
American football teams have a third-string quarterback whose main purpose is to mimic the style of next weeks opponent in practice against the starting defense.
Kerry surely have 4 or 5 players in the running mould that can be used exclusively to challenge our midfield and half back line. And if they are not available, invite a few cross country runners into training and allow them to just carry the ball and throw it to each other if they don't have the ball control skills. Developing the skillset of players defending that style of game will be fruitful, in that our opponents might then abandon the running game, resulting in both teams playing the "Kerry way", which can only be good for us.
Donaghy is on the right track in that clip at the bottom of the last page in this thread.
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Jun 25, 2019 19:52:42 GMT
Pat Spillane is often quoted that in his day, the Kerry players and management never bothered talking about the opposition. That day is long gone. A successful team these days will know what to expect from any opponent. Just like we all know how Fermanagh will set up, the onus is on their opponent to devise a scheme to break them down. It is hardly news that Kerry can be "got at" with direct running down the middle. So time for Kerry to adapt by either fixing via personnel changes or via training and repetitive exposure to that type of gameplan. American football teams have a third-string quarterback whose main purpose is to mimic the style of next weeks opponent in practice against the starting defense. Kerry surely have 4 or 5 players in the running mould that can be used exclusively to challenge our midfield and half back line. And if they are not available, invite a few cross country runners into training and allow them to just carry the ball and throw it to each other if they don't have the ball control skills. Developing the skillset of players defending that style of game will be fruitful, in that our opponents might then abandon the running game, resulting in both teams playing the "Kerry way", which can only be good for us. Donaghy is on the right track in that clip at the bottom of the last page in this thread. Good Lord.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Jun 25, 2019 19:57:13 GMT
Plenty cross country runners masquerading as footballers...
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 25, 2019 20:34:54 GMT
I have been reading through this thread for a few days now, so, I have… observations. Very clearly, practically every contributor to this forum is critical of the Kerry defense to one degree or another. Some have expressed the hope that we might somehow develop an Algorithm for defending or maybe unearth a ‘Carlsberg’ defender overnight that would solve all of our problems. Otherwise, we cannot overcome. The great thing about football is that, despite all the rules, there are a hundred different ways to play it. It's the job of the manager to shape the way a team plays and you only have to take one look at the elite end of the sport to see differences in the way team’s set-up and play the game Now I am not so blind that I do not see the shortcomings in our defense, and assessing our strengths & weaknesses realistically is, of course, important, but surely this is being offset at the other end of the pitch with the scores that we are amassing. Outscoring the opposition has always been the way games are decided. There are a number of ways of skinning a cat, but then of course "we have never done it this way", "it will never be accepted". Some even promote the idea of reverting back to 'Bóithrín football' I have listened to opinionated “experts” telling us all that Donegal were now the team most likely to dethrone Dublin. That may well be so, but I saw a very average Cavan forward division put 2-16 on them. Sean Cavanagh believes that we would not make the Super 8’s in any other Province. Tá sé ag caint caca tarbh - as is his wont. The only disability in life is a bad attitude. Like Augustafield says, keep the faith. Good post mandad. Just watched this back, Cork stepped up in a big way. Hopefully they will progress to the Super 8s now also. Good to see them putting pride back into the Cork jersey. I'm tipping Kerry to continue their league form into the Super 8s, top their group and meet the Dubs in the final. This young bunch of Kerry players have huge potential.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2019 20:44:48 GMT
There wont be any hubris which is a good thing.
A lot of strong men thst were there are gone such as Donaghy, Maher, Peter Crowley, Brian Sheehan
Thats something that a young side can only gain over time.
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Post by bedlamite on Jun 25, 2019 20:51:20 GMT
Was at the game, and it was enjoyable. Cork Supporters smelling blood, and getting the dander up was great to see once again. This forum is great crack also. Infinite amount of views held and colourful ways of expressing them.
Kerry Midfield is the main issue to be solved. Not sure we have the players currently though. David Moran is your classic midfielder, strong in a lot of aspects of midfield play, but can't cover back at speed, and can't tackle with the intensity needed. This puts a lot of pressure on our backs with runners, and the unopposed runners were coming from Midfield and running down the centre. The Cork Midfielder from Kilshannig was the best player in midfield on display. Jack Barry was well off the pace.
We are a kick passing team ourselves. This helps to get the ball into our inside forwards quickly, and by in large they were scoring freely when given the supply. Lots of chances created, and a good percentage taken. No wides in the first half, I think. Missed a few goal chances too, which on another day, if taken early could have ended the match. However being a kick passing team, and needing the Moran to be one of the key exponents of this, leaves us vulnerable to runners. The second Kerry midfielder needs to balance Moran's deficit in this department. Barry and A Spillane were tried on Sunday. If they are not up to it, the option is to drop Moran and play a more defensive midfield pairing, who can cover, run back, tackle hard, delay and divert the runs, but which can still kick forward when we have the ball, someone maybe not kicking to the standard of Moran, but to a reasonable standard. A player of this type might also improve collecting breaking ball, dirty ball better giving us a higher return in this area. A player like this might also run at the opposing defence, fighting fire with fire. Moran can't do this either, very easily turned when going forward.
Moran was also at fault for the first goal. Didn't put himself on the Goal side for the throw in. Backs got sucked in to the throw in also. Ruari Deane pounced, as a good player will, and we paid the price. Cork created a lot of chances but did not score as freely as Kerry. No surprise here, Cork forwards not to the standard of Kerry's. Ruari Deane in reality, the only Cork player who could make the Kerry forward line.
When one on one, Kerry backs did OK.
Kerry were good on their own kick outs. Kerry put Cork kick out under pressure.
Tom Sullivan and Gavin White attacked well, and pushed the cork wing backs out to the sideline when they were forced to defend, with perhaps White struggling at time. He won a load of kick outs though and put Cork chasing back also.
I thought Sherwood did OK under the circumstances. Morley did OK but for Hurley's punched goal. Shane Ryan did OK but for Hurley's punched Goal. Jason Foley, so so, but seems to be injured. Paul Murphy was quite for his standard but did nothing wrong. The forwards were good, particularly O Brien and Clifford and O Shea. Geaney showed well for the ball, but slows it down when he gets it. Needs to link up better with those around him. Silly antics also in getting sent off. Moynihan got 2 points, but I thought was quite, and O'Connor was not that effective. Thought he was being picked for his defensive role to cover Moran, and he did at times and shows tremendous speed covering back, but not enough of times. Not strong enough physically yet. For Moynihan and Him it was their first Munster Final, and they will improve from it. Burns played well when he came on too I must say.
Kerry showed heart and were fitter than Cork. They finished better. The kicking game saves energy. Opinions expressed here in relation to our defensive frailties, leading to the tendency to panic and go negative will not win the All Ireland. Defend better yes, but defend from every position, not just after midfield, and turn it around quick. We have a strong full forward line, that will keep the opposition pegged back. In fact, it was this fear in Cork that prevented them from using the free man for the last 15mins.
Kerry are improving. We have young players who are good footballers. Not strong enough yet. They need a ton of luck to win the All Ireland though. Donegal will be a handful in the Super 8's for us. I thought Dublin were poor. Meath created a lot of chances, but were not good enough to take them. That killed them, not Dublin's brilliance. Dublin Coasted home.
You need to keep positive. If you think you can't win, you probably won't. If you think you can, you probably will.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 25, 2019 22:11:26 GMT
I am all for positivity but, we must be realistic as well. As people have said our midfield is too one paced for the modern game. I always thought Barry was pacey but, he didn't look that way Saturday.
I suggested Gavin White for a role before along side Moran and think we may have to revisit that idea. If he was more seasoned I would even suggest Gavin O'Brien along side white but fear we would lack physicallity. Barry is big enough but, doesnt seem to have developed the tough streak yet.
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The16thMan
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Post by The16thMan on Jun 25, 2019 22:13:46 GMT
I thought a key moment in the game was when David Clifford brilliantly stopped the ball going over the endline and magnificently flicked the ball over his opponents head and setting up Seánie for a gilt edge goal chance which he didn't manage to put away. If he put that in I think the score would have been 2-05 to 0-01 which surely would have knocked Cork's confidence hugely and put the game to bed early.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 25, 2019 22:30:59 GMT
I thought a key moment in the game was when David Clifford brilliantly stopped the ball going over the endline and magnificently flicked the ball over his opponents head and setting up Seánie for a gilt edge goal chance which he didn't manage to put away. If he put that in I think the score would have been 2-05 to 0-01 which surely would have knocked Cork's confidence hugely and put the game to bed early. That would have been a disaster.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 25, 2019 22:32:15 GMT
I am all for positivity but, we must be realistic as well. As people have said our midfield is too one paced for the modern game. I always thought Barry was pacey but, he didn't look that way Saturday. I suggested Gavin White for a role before along side Moran and think we may have to revisit that idea. If he was more seasoned I would even suggest Gavin O'Brien along side white but fear we would lack physicallity. Barry is big enough but, doesnt seem to have developed the tough streak yet. Kerry will gain a lot from the Super 8s this year. It could be the making of them.
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The16thMan
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Post by The16thMan on Jun 26, 2019 0:30:14 GMT
I thought a key moment in the game was when David Clifford brilliantly stopped the ball going over the endline and magnificently flicked the ball over his opponents head and setting up Seánie for a gilt edge goal chance which he didn't manage to put away. If he put that in I think the score would have been 2-05 to 0-01 which surely would have knocked Cork's confidence hugely and put the game to bed early. That would have been a disaster. Please explain how a 10 point game would have been a disaster??. Everybody else us complaining the game was too tight whilst I'm suggesting a moment that probably would have killed the game and its a disaster. No logic
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The16thMan
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Post by The16thMan on Jun 26, 2019 0:31:25 GMT
Also passed Fitsgerald Stadium today and a new scoreboard seems to be up, looks attached to the old one but it looks a digital one able to display the time by all accouts.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jun 26, 2019 7:36:05 GMT
I will miss the entertainment of the old one.
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The16thMan
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Post by The16thMan on Jun 26, 2019 8:08:59 GMT
I will miss the entertainment of the old one. So that will be the scoreboard end done (they're replacing the concrete seats in there) all that needs to be done now is modernize the toilets and replace the bench seats in the stand with actual seats and we will have a top class stadium in place.
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Post by greengold35 on Jun 26, 2019 8:28:24 GMT
I am all for positivity but, we must be realistic as well. As people have said our midfield is too one paced for the modern game. I always thought Barry was pacey but, he didn't look that way Saturday. I suggested Gavin White for a role before along side Moran and think we may have to revisit that idea. If he was more seasoned I would even suggest Gavin O'Brien along side white but fear we would lack physicallity. Barry is big enough but, doesnt seem to have developed the tough streak yet. I too am in the Gavin White for midfield camp - think he could offer us much more there than current role - has pace, stamina, could cover back etc. He was the go to guy for a lot of Ryan's restarts last week. Gavin O'Brien seems to be down in the pecking order - thought he would have been ideal choice towards the finish last week but instead we chose to go with Briain O'Beaglaoi at wing forward. On Jack Barry, feel that his recent lack of match practice, recovering from injury meant we did not see the best of him and he will improve as the year progresses - it was only a couple of years ago John Divilly ( ex Galway) was singing his praises and predicting a great future for him.
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Post by dc84 on Jun 26, 2019 8:54:37 GMT
I will miss the entertainment of the old one. Yeah never know what to believe looking at that scoreboard!
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 26, 2019 8:59:14 GMT
That would have been a disaster. Please explain how a 10 point game would have been a disaster??. Everybody else us complaining the game was too tight whilst I'm suggesting a moment that probably would have killed the game and its a disaster. No logic A facile win would have been pointless for Kerry. Cork subsequently rose to the challenge and Kerry learned tons more about themselves.
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Post by dc84 on Jun 26, 2019 10:55:14 GMT
The more I think about it and I have watched it a couple of times the more I'm encouraged we had 3 sides in the whole game. That's roughly 90% conversion rate that serious shooting and with the calibre of forwards we have no reason that can't continue.
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Post by crokes86 on Jun 26, 2019 15:12:55 GMT
No doubt we have the Forwards to trouble any team. The lack of pace at Midfield is a serious problem. Surprised Rob O’Se from the Gaeltacht didn’t get a look in the League. Also I think Tom Leo from Dingle should be there. He’s an actual cornerback.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 26, 2019 15:34:11 GMT
No doubt we have the Forwards to trouble any team. The lack of pace at Midfield is a serious problem. Surprised Rob O’Se from the Gaeltacht didn’t get a look in the League. Also I think Tom Leo from Dingle should be there. He’s an actual cornerback. Good call on Tom Leo. I wonder is he one of the 10 or so lads that are training on their own every week or is he training with the main panel.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jun 26, 2019 16:52:44 GMT
Does anyone rate Nathan Breen as a midfielder ? Might be a lot easier just to put Sean O Se at midfield And consider Clifford at 11 where he’d had a bigger impact on the game for me DC has to go 14 or 11 this way he s on the ball more and can take two defenders with him any times he moves . If he’s at 11 you won’t have to worry about the 6 doing too many attacking runs Might sound radical but we need a shake up !
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 26, 2019 18:56:00 GMT
No doubt we have the Forwards to trouble any team. The lack of pace at Midfield is a serious problem. Surprised Rob O’Se from the Gaeltacht didn’t get a look in the League. Also I think Tom Leo from Dingle should be there. He’s an actual cornerback. Kerry will need a plan b for the day the forwards might be held. "Grind-hog day"
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Post by greengold35 on Jun 26, 2019 19:30:26 GMT
Does anyone rate Nathan Breen as a midfielder ? Might be a lot easier just to put Sean O Se at midfield And consider Clifford at 11 where he’d had a bigger impact on the game for me DC has to go 14 or 11 this way he s on the ball more and can take two defenders with him any times he moves . If he’s at 11 you won’t have to worry about the 6 doing too many attacking runs Might sound radical but we need a shake up ! Breen was playing with the juniors tonight but think he was black carded in first half - seen him play a few times last year & never thought he was a potential senior. One guy who has been overlooked ( until juniors tonight) has been Podge O’Connor - a tough uncompromising corner back with plenty of pace - I am surprised he is not on senior training panel. Clifford has always to play as close to goal as possible - up to management to build attack/gameplan around him.
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Post by piggott on Jun 26, 2019 20:16:42 GMT
Can Galway meet Mayo and Meath meet Laois/Offaly in Rd 4 of qualifiers?
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Post by southward on Jun 26, 2019 20:50:12 GMT
Does anyone rate Nathan Breen as a midfielder ? Might be a lot easier just to put Sean O Se at midfield And consider Clifford at 11 where he’d had a bigger impact on the game for me DC has to go 14 or 11 this way he s on the ball more and can take two defenders with him any times he moves . If he’s at 11 you won’t have to worry about the 6 doing too many attacking runs Might sound radical but we need a shake up ! Breen was playing with the juniors tonight but think he was black carded in first half - seen him play a few times last year & never thought he was a potential senior. One guy who has been overlooked ( until juniors tonight) has been Podge O’Connor - a tough uncompromising corner back with plenty of pace - I am surprised he is not on senior training panel.
Clifford has always to play as close to goal as possible - up to management to build attack/gameplan around him. On the league panel last year, I think.
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